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Elyv
Jun 14, 2013



in innistrad the best archetypes are GW 2 drops plus travel prep.dec or UX(y) graveyard decks

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Tainen
Jan 23, 2004
For you guys that have been playing a long time how would you rate the current format? I only started playing when Amonkhet came out but I am finding Hour to be a big upgrade over triple Amonkhet and talking with some people in my LGS a bunch of them say it's their favorite of the last few years.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Tainen posted:

For you guys that have been playing a long time how would you rate the current format? I only started playing when Amonkhet came out but I am finding Hour to be a big upgrade over triple Amonkhet and talking with some people in my LGS a bunch of them say it's their favorite of the last few years.

The last few years is probably right. Its also not a huge milestone to reach considering, but right now standard is fine-ish. If your favorite format is standard you aren't having a bad time per say.

Bugsy
Jul 15, 2004

I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.


Slippery Tilde

Tainen posted:

For you guys that have been playing a long time how would you rate the current format? I only started playing when Amonkhet came out but I am finding Hour to be a big upgrade over triple Amonkhet and talking with some people in my LGS a bunch of them say it's their favorite of the last few years.

Ive heard some people saying the same things, but it just seems ok to me? It not awful but I dont think its any where close to top 5.

STING 64
Oct 20, 2006

Probably the best since frf.

Tales of Woe
Dec 18, 2004

Tainen posted:

For you guys that have been playing a long time how would you rate the current format? I only started playing when Amonkhet came out but I am finding Hour to be a big upgrade over triple Amonkhet and talking with some people in my LGS a bunch of them say it's their favorite of the last few years.

I think the best draft formats of the past 5 years were 3x KTK and Eldritch Moon and there's a big gap after that but this one would be in the running for 3rd place.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
Judge tosses case brought by Magic: the Gathering judge who wants to be paid

quote:

A federal judge in California has dismissed a proposed class-action labor lawsuit brought in late 2015 by a man who says that he has now worked for more than 20 years as a "judge" in Magic: the Gathering tournaments and demands to be paid.
In the court ruling, which was issued Wednesday, US District Judge Edward Davila sided with the defendant, Wizards of the Coast. The judge noted that, while Paul Yale’s years of experience to master all of the details of the popular card game and to become certified as a tournament arbiter takes time and extensive knowledge, “the complaint makes clear that Defendant’s program is purely voluntary and could be abandoned at any time.”

In other words, this is what Yale signed up for.

Judge Davila also noted that, while Yale and other Magic judges are occasionally compensated through playing cards, “there are also no allegations regarding wages” or “allegations regarding the number of hours Plaintiff was to ‘work’ as a Judge,” among other deficiencies in his lawsuit.

The judge, who was appointed to the federal bench in 2011 by President Barack Obama, left the door open for the case to be filed again by September 23 with new revisions.

Attorneys representing Yale did not immediately respond to Ars’ request for comment.

This isn't the only case of a judge suing WotC, at least I think this isn't the same one as another judge I know has been working on, because I don't see his name anywhere on this. But it's not good for his case if this almost identical one (IANAL) has been thrown out.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.
Shouldn't have filed in Federal Court.

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.
The judges should unionize

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003

Pillbug

GeneX posted:

The judges should unionize

Imagine a GP with poorly trained scab judges.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Tainen posted:

For you guys that have been playing a long time how would you rate the current format? I only started playing when Amonkhet came out but I am finding Hour to be a big upgrade over triple Amonkhet and talking with some people in my LGS a bunch of them say it's their favorite of the last few years.

I'm really liking Hour so far and agree it's an upgrade over Amonkhet. I like when Limited environments have a mechanic that allows you to smooth out your draws and help you be able to still do something if you stumble on mana early. Cycling does that nicely.
Hour feels like a slower format than triple AKH, which is nice. You could win with a ramp deck in AKH, but you had a really bad time of it if you got paired against a good version of the fast WR deck. Now there's fewer good aggressive creatures, more ramp spells, and more payoffs. And between Oasis Ritualist and Gift of Paradise at common, it's actually really easy to splash for a double-off-colored-mana card in a ramp deck. If you're UG Ramp and open a Glorybringer or a Cruel Reality in pack 3, you can absolutely splash for it. The "deserts matter" theme is cool, especially since almost all the deserts are good cards you want in your deck anyway.

The only thing I don't like about this format is that the 3 gods feel nigh unbeatable to play against, just like Glorybringer did last set (and Glorybringer is still around).

gif Probst posted:

Probably the best since frf.

You're crazy if you think FRF-KTK-KTK was better than Triple KTK. It took an all-time-great format and made it more about what bomb rare you opened in pack 1.

Cactrot
Jan 11, 2001

Go Go Cactus Galactus





Mezzanon posted:

Imagine a GP with poorly trained scab judges.

So, a GP then?

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003

Pillbug

Cactrot posted:

So, a GP then?

.....


yes.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer

GeneX posted:

The judges should unionize

I can't tell if that's ironic, but the only thing that would get WotC to change their standard operating procedure for judges is if all the judges banded together and said they wouldn't work unless things changed. I think there's a big gap in attitudes between newer judges and the old guard like me who've been judging for over a decade. The average L1 doesn't care about any of this because they just get store credit from their LGS. The average new L2 is just happy to travel the country/world and judge events, even though they merely break even (or worse) judging a GP. Most of the current L3s who have been judging forever are used to it, but I'm not really in their mindset because I haven't head judged a GP or Pro Tour ever.

hey mom its 420
May 12, 2007

I'm an L1 because me and my friends run a cool weekly modern thing. But I don't see why someone would go judge at GPs practically for free unless they really like being in large crowds full of magic players and catering to their whims. To me that looks like a thing you should be paid for. Why really do they volunteer for a for-profit organization?

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer

Bonus posted:

I'm an L1 because me and my friends run a cool weekly modern thing. But I don't see why someone would go judge at GPs practically for free unless they really like being in large crowds full of magic players and catering to their whims. To me that looks like a thing you should be paid for. Why really do they volunteer for a for-profit organization?

I stopped judging GPs because I'd always get sick, and between travel expenses, hotels, and meals I'd just break even. Then I'd be sick and useless for at least two days after the event, probably longer. Back when I was breaking even and getting judge foils for GPs it was pretty sweet though, because I'd make $250ish selling the foils after the event. But I was younger then and my immune system and tolerance for walking around for eleven hours a day on six hours of sleep was much greater.

STING 64
Oct 20, 2006

Entropic posted:

I'm really liking Hour so far and agree it's an upgrade over Amonkhet. I like when Limited environments have a mechanic that allows you to smooth out your draws and help you be able to still do something if you stumble on mana early. Cycling does that nicely.
Hour feels like a slower format than triple AKH, which is nice. You could win with a ramp deck in AKH, but you had a really bad time of it if you got paired against a good version of the fast WR deck. Now there's fewer good aggressive creatures, more ramp spells, and more payoffs. And between Oasis Ritualist and Gift of Paradise at common, it's actually really easy to splash for a double-off-colored-mana card in a ramp deck. If you're UG Ramp and open a Glorybringer or a Cruel Reality in pack 3, you can absolutely splash for it. The "deserts matter" theme is cool, especially since almost all the deserts are good cards you want in your deck anyway.

The only thing I don't like about this format is that the 3 gods feel nigh unbeatable to play against, just like Glorybringer did last set (and Glorybringer is still around).


You're crazy if you think FRF-KTK-KTK was better than Triple KTK. It took an all-time-great format and made it more about what bomb rare you opened in pack 1.
Im saying all drafts post frf have been worse, not frf was better than ktk

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
Ah, ok.

I actually quite liked Oath of the Gatewatch, it reminds me of Hour in that its small-small-big draft environment was a marked improvement on the triple-big set it came after.

And I have a soft spot for Origins, probably because I had a ridiculous win record with it. It was really bare-bones, but it was a drat good intro-to-drafting set and it got a whole bunch of people at my LGS into limited.

Dehtraen
Jul 30, 2004

Keep the faith alive

Chill la Chill posted:

Can someone post the Marshal(?) to Efro pro tour coverage pic from best dressed to worst dressed? Thanks. I swore I saved it last time.

That image is amazing.

Ben Stark all casual in the coverage booth at last weekend's GP was pretty great, also was a master stroke when Marshall let him / made him put on one of Marshall's jackets and it looked like Ben was a kid wearing his dad's suit. Great way to troll the chat twitch chat

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Dehtraen posted:

That image is amazing.

Ben Stark all casual in the coverage booth at last weekend's GP was pretty great, also was a master stroke when Marshall let him / made him put on one of Marshall's jackets and it looked like Ben was a kid wearing his dad's suit. Great way to troll the chat twitch chat

Was Reid Duke also wearing Huey's jacket, too?

Marketing New Brain
Apr 26, 2008

Entropic posted:

Ah, ok.

I actually quite liked Oath of the Gatewatch, it reminds me of Hour in that its small-small-big draft environment was a marked improvement on the triple-big set it came after.

And I have a soft spot for Origins, probably because I had a ridiculous win record with it. It was really bare-bones, but it was a drat good intro-to-drafting set and it got a whole bunch of people at my LGS into limited.

I liked Kaladesh and AER better than this format. Once you've gotten past the basic archetypes that work, there isn't much to do in HOD, and there are no fun build around me cards, like Drake Haven, which is now almost useless since you never see it until pack 3. I feel like this format is propped up on cycling being such a great mechanic, it masks an otherwise mediocre draft environment.

Sadly we don't have data on drafts fired, which is probably the best way to determine how popular a format truly is. I took a hiatus between Dragons of Tarkir and Kaladesh, but so far I haven't found a draft format I didn't want to draft other than Avacyn Restored, and that's going back all the way to Alara.

Hellsau
Jan 14, 2010

NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

Marketing New Brain posted:

Sadly we don't have data on drafts fired, which is probably the best way to determine how popular a format truly is. I took a hiatus between Dragons of Tarkir and Kaladesh, but so far I haven't found a draft format I didn't want to draft other than Avacyn Restored, and that's going back all the way to Alara.

Gatecrash is extremely bad.

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Hellsau posted:

Gatecrash is extremely bad.

I got like five Syndic of Titheses in a triple GTC draft once, so I remember the format very fondly. Best Boros card I've ever seen.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
I remember RTR being pretty good except for Packrat being the original Glorybringer. The limited thread is still named after it.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
Is there a definitive list of "Oh, gently caress off" Limited cards?

It's got to include Pack Rat, Glorybringer, Bonfire of the Damned and, I don't know.. Jitte?

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Entropic posted:

I remember RTR being pretty good except for Packrat being the original Glorybringer. The limited thread is still named after it.

Triple RTR wasn't bad. Triple GTC was like triple Amonkhet but loud, and full block RTR was weird and kind of lame (first back full of garbage cluestones at common, weird pressure to cut a gatecrash guild since that was the second pack)

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Entropic posted:

Is there a definitive list of "Oh, gently caress off" Limited cards?

It's got to include Pack Rat, Glorybringer, Bonfire of the Damned and, I don't know.. Jitte?

All 3 gods in HOU.

Marketing New Brain
Apr 26, 2008

Hellsau posted:

Gatecrash is extremely bad.

Definitely one of the lower ranking ones, I only liked triple RTR, and even that had Pack Rat to taint it. I still drafted it a bunch, I think it was altogether more popular than post Theros draft formats, at least from what I remember.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
Packing all 10 guilds into a small set in Dragon's Maze was an interesting experiment, but I think didn't quite get there. I think if cluestones had been replaced with something slightly better it would have been a much more interesting format.


mcmagic posted:

All 3 gods in HOU.

Yeah. I think it being 3 different cards somehow lessens the blow because it's different each way, but yeah, they're all nigh unbeatable and miserable to play against.

I had a game where someone cast Locust God, then untapped and cast Tragic Lesson, then cast Bloodwater Entity putting Tragic Lesson back on top of their library.
:negative:.

Entropic fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Aug 25, 2017

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
How soon we forget Grave Titan.

Elyv
Jun 14, 2013



I actually liked triple gtc a lot even though I ended up simic like every time. Full block rtr was bad though, first pack full of cluestonesgarbage and the optimal strategy was to just force a gtc guild because the Mana wasn't good enough to support 3 color even though that's what wotc wanted us to do.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

PMush Perfect posted:

How soon we forget Grave Titan.

Were any of the Titans not broken in limited? That was before I really started drafting.

I guess, weirdly, the most played Constructed one, Primeval Titan, is the least broken in Limited because you probably don't have any worthwhile nonbasics to fetch and who really needs more than 6 mana in limited anyway?

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.
Here's how bad Pack Rat was in Limited: Mizzium Mortars was in the same set and nobody remembers.

Marketing New Brain
Apr 26, 2008

Entropic posted:

Is there a definitive list of "Oh, gently caress off" Limited cards?

It's got to include Pack Rat, Glorybringer, Bonfire of the Damned and, I don't know.. Jitte?

Whichever Jace had like a +1 or a 0 Option that milled some absurd number of cards. It was 2 or 3 activations to deck them in limited.

Glorybringer ain't poo poo, Drana Kalastria was the loving worst. Imagine if Glorybringer killed anything, didn't exert and dealt you 10 damage on top of it.

Flame Wave (aka Game Wave) at uncommon was a huge gently caress you in TSE, and they moved it to rare in Tempest Remastered thankfully. Unfortunately they also moved Wasteland to rare like dicks, although I'm not sure if it was adjusted to have the same open rate given you got 3 packs to crack it instead of one.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Marketing New Brain posted:

Whichever Jace had like a +1 or a 0 Option that milled some absurd number of cards. It was 2 or 3 activations to deck them in limited.

Glorybringer ain't poo poo, Drana Kalastria was the loving worst. Imagine if Glorybringer killed anything, didn't exert and dealt you 10 damage on top of it.

Flame Wave (aka Game Wave) at uncommon was a huge gently caress you in TSE, and they moved it to rare in Tempest Remastered thankfully. Unfortunately they also moved Wasteland to rare like dicks, although I'm not sure if it was adjusted to have the same open rate given you got 3 packs to crack it instead of one.

My understand of old packs is that any given uncommon (say, Wasteland) is about as rare as any given rare these days. So moving Wasteland to rare in TPR made it about as common as it was at uncommon in the original Tempest.

Also I thought Flame Wave was rare for a LONG time, like until a few years ago, because oh my god how could it not be?

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Marketing New Brain posted:

Whichever Jace had like a +1 or a 0 Option that milled some absurd number of cards. It was 2 or 3 activations to deck them in limited.

Anime Jace was in three core sets in a row. I can't believe I forgot that one. At least it was mythic in a large set.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

suicidesteve posted:

My understand of old packs is that any given uncommon (say, Wasteland) is about as rare as any given rare these days. So moving Wasteland to rare in TPR made it about as common as it was at uncommon in the original Tempest.

Also I thought Flame Wave was rare for a LONG time, like until a few years ago, because oh my god how could it not be?

That's true for REALLY old sets but Tempest is too recent for that.

Elyv
Jun 14, 2013



suicidesteve posted:

Also I thought Flame Wave was rare for a LONG time, like until a few years ago, because oh my god how could it not be?

Reminder that Rolling Thunder was a common in Tempest. I don't think they'd figured out rarity quite yet then

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
Similarly to the Titans, Soul of Theros was miserable.

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Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
The official Jace names, in order of release, are Baby Jace, Jace, Anime Jace, Michael C. Hall Jace, Unplayable Jace, Flip Jace, and Begrudgingly Playable Jace.

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