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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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so people in california are working on recalling scumbag rendon: https://www.crowdpac.com/campaigns/300452/4-healthcareforall-we-recallrendon
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Aug 26, 2017 07:47
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Condiv posted:so people in california are working on recalling scumbag rendon: https://www.crowdpac.com/campaigns/300452/4-healthcareforall-we-recallrendon I dunno if this is going to go anywhere, but if this is the guy I'm thinking of, replacing him isn't going to fix the structural issues in the way of the California universal healthcare bill, namely their ballot initiative thing that requires half of all revenue go to the school system.
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Aug 26, 2017 07:51
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Lightning Knight posted:I dunno if this is going to go anywhere, but if this is the guy I'm thinking of, replacing him isn't going to fix the structural issues in the way of the California universal healthcare bill, namely their ballot initiative thing that requires half of all revenue go to the school system. the dems have a supermajority and control of all branches of california's government. this will help the structural issues in the way of the bill, namely the dems wanting to avoid passing singlepayer at all costs, by making them fear for their seats if they torpedo it by blocking it from being completed http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/entry/nurses-statement-on-rendons-assembly-select-committee/ Condiv fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 07:55
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Condiv posted:the dems have a supermajority and control of all branches of california's government. this will help the structural issues in the way of the bill, namely the dems wanting to avoid passing singlepayer at all costs, by making them fear for their seats if they torpedo it by blocking it from being completed My understanding of the issue, which may be incorrect, is that the stated reason the more conservative Assembly rejected the bill is because it doesn't come with any kind of funding provisions because the funding for it would be astronomically higher than what it should be because they have to comply with a requirement that half of all revenue goes to the school system, and to repeal that they need a ballot initiative voted on by the people, not the legislature. I've read about this guy and he seems like a dick but getting rid of him, even if it's successful, doesn't seem like it's going to fix the actual problem.
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Aug 26, 2017 07:57
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Lightning Knight posted:I dunno if this is going to go anywhere, but if this is the guy I'm thinking of, replacing him isn't going to fix the structural issues in the way of the California universal healthcare bill, namely their ballot initiative thing that requires half of all revenue go to the school system. Well then bring it to a vote. Don't pussyfoot around it with lies. ALso getting rid of him sends a message to sociopaths.
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Aug 26, 2017 07:59
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You could just pass the bill subject to a ballot initiative that exempts its finding mechanism from that dumb school requirement. It's just an excuse not to pass it. If they really thought the voters would reject the initiative they would do exactly this and then it wouldn't be their fault. Their donors are afraid the initiative would pass so they are making sure the Dems kill it.
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Aug 26, 2017 08:10
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VitalSigns posted:You could just pass the bill subject to a ballot initiative that exempts its finding mechanism from that dumb school requirement. yep. the assembly has this power, and instead of trying to use it, they blocked the bill entirely Lightning Knight posted:My understanding of the issue, which may be incorrect, is that the stated reason the more conservative Assembly rejected the bill is because it doesn't come with any kind of funding provisions because the funding for it would be astronomically higher than what it should be because they have to comply with a requirement that half of all revenue goes to the school system, and to repeal that they need a ballot initiative voted on by the people, not the legislature. to repeal or amend proposition 98, the legislature can create a ballot initiative that will be voted on by the public at the next time possible. the democrats have the numbers to do exactly that, but refused to do so and instead blocked it and sat on their hands. recalling rendon and every other cali dem blocking it is the best way forward at the moment now Condiv fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 08:27
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Incidentally, how did Democrats deal with those issues the million times they passed single payer for Schwarzenegger to veto, but are now magically an insuperable barrier when they have total control of everything?
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Aug 26, 2017 08:33
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VitalSigns posted:Incidentally, how did Democrats deal with those issues the million times they passed single payer for Schwarzenegger to veto, but are now magically an insuperable barrier when they have total control of everything? Something something Obamacare repeal
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Aug 26, 2017 08:38
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VitalSigns posted:Incidentally, how did Democrats deal with those issues the million times they passed single payer for Schwarzenegger to veto, but are now magically an insuperable barrier when they have total control of everything? They didn't have to; they knew Schwarzenegger would veto the '06 and '08 bills. David Dayen's June piece in The Intercept resulted in a really interesting exchange between him and Michael Lighty, director of public policy at the California Nurse's Association. It's really worth reading all the way through, because both of them make some really valid points. I have to come down on the side of Dayen for these reasons, though: quote:Lighty alludes to California’s cap-and-trade program being a 12-page bill, but here’s a better comparison: the aforementioned SB840, last decade’s single payer bill, written by then-Sen. Sheila Kuehl. Here’s the bill text of SB840, compared to the text of SB562. It’s no contest.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:13
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VitalSigns posted:Incidentally, how did Democrats deal with those issues the million times they passed single payer for Schwarzenegger to veto, but are now magically an insuperable barrier when they have total control of everything? The same way republicans were able to pass cartoon repeal Obamacare bills when a veto was assured.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:27
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WampaLord posted:Can we get a mod to weigh in on this, please? I get constantly yelled at for this in the Trump thread and have been probated for primary chat, can't we get the same thing going on here? i'd prefer it if people kept discussion to the cleavage in the democratic party in the abstract rather than bringing it back to hillary/bernie over and over again, yes
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Aug 26, 2017 15:30
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but for this thread it's at least tangentially related to the topic at hand so i'm less likely to punish people who do it without being unbelievable shitheads, like fulchrum
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Aug 26, 2017 15:30
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Crowsbeak posted:So in unfortunate news the DNC will not be properly bankrupted for it's actions against Bernie Sanders. However it has been found it is true that it did act with malice against him. Let's see the subhuman sociopaths try to defend this. lol no it wasn't
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Aug 26, 2017 15:43
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:lol no it wasn't didn't the court rule that assuming what they said was true, they didn't have any standing and just killed the lawsuit
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Aug 26, 2017 16:03
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exploded mummy posted:didn't the court rule that assuming what they said was true, they didn't have any standing and just killed the lawsuit it was without prejudice though so they can refile if they fix the case
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Aug 26, 2017 16:31
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VitalSigns posted:That exact tactic worked before and got us Medicare, the most popular program in history, you insufferable moron, read a book sometime. And as we famously know, nothing has changed in US politics since the loving 60s lmao not to even mention how much of that was because he could use Kennedy's assassination as a cudgel for various issues. Or that Johnson was the loving senate majority leader and had extensive connections there that he could lean on. I mean yea, I guess you could compare the two, if you ignore the litany of gigantic differences. It's good to look at history but people have this tendency to point to vaguely similar events and forget that there are millions of variables in the background that aren't the same. With Obama there's also a real tendency to use the benefit of hindsight to show how "terrible" he was. I mean given everything we know now, yeah they probably should have nuked the filibuster in 09 but at the time? McCain Feingold was just 7 years old at that point- the idea that it was impossible to get bipartisan bills on tough issues passed just wasn't conventional wisdom at that point. TROIKA CURES GREEK fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 17:17
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:the idea that it was impossible to pass bipartisan bills on tough issues to get passed just wasn't conventional wisdom at that point. Only if you willfully ignored everything the GOP was saying at the time. They were very explicit about not wanting Obama to pass anything at all, Obama though they were just bluffing/posturing. He was wrong.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:22
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WampaLord posted:Only if you willfully ignored everything the GOP was saying at the time. They were very explicit about not wanting Obama to pass anything at all, Obama though they were just bluffing/posturing. He was wrong. it also doesn't explain it taking years for the lesson to sink in. or obama letting his flagship legislation be kneecapped by the lack of a public option (which would've kept the private insurers more honest and would present a benchmark for the actual costs of healthcare)
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Aug 26, 2017 17:25
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Condiv posted:it was without prejudice though so they can refile if they fix the case maybe the Becks have better luck figuring out what happened to Seth Rich if that happens
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Aug 26, 2017 17:27
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https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/901456136825712641 "I'll just conveniently leave out the important part in my editorial shitpost."
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Aug 26, 2017 17:27
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/901456136825712641 the nyt is a waste seriously, they got a bunch of extra subscriptions for resisting trump, and they waste their money employing someone who would be comfortable at fox news?
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Aug 26, 2017 17:31
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They used all that subscription money to hire a racist climate denier
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Aug 26, 2017 17:35
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The NYT being purveyors of fake news is probably one of the few things that Bernie Bros, Abuelaist, and Trumpists can agree on
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Aug 26, 2017 17:35
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https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/901239763289722880 https://twitter.com/fivefifths/status/901302702831009792
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Aug 26, 2017 17:40
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Office Pig posted:"I'll just conveniently leave out the important part in my editorial shitpost." Its almost as good as constant vague insinuations about non-specific yet serious problematic issues with Sanders that are only pressing for him somehow despite having the most progressive issues and supporters.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:44
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Uggh. This is so aggravating. The liberal truism that "Hispanics are a growing block and the GOP shits on them, so we're bound to have an eternal majority soon!" just refuses to die. It's one of those weird zombie lies of politics, too useful (for certain people) to let go of. Hispanics are not a monolithic block. Plenty of them are true conservatives on the basis of strict Cold War-era Catholicism alone. Another chunk has obtained citizenship and/or believe the self-made man myth and will gladly vote GOP in order to set themselves apart for the "bums that didn't have it as hard as me but still get nowhere". And, like any other voting block, you also need to give them something real to aspire to, not just point to the other guys and make scary noises. This in anecdotal, of course, with me being hispanic and having heard the sickest near-Objectivist poo poo from friends and relatives. The way to secure a sizable chunk of the hispanic vote long-term is by offering education and expanded health/quality of life services that make even those lowest on the totem pole feel welcomed and valued. Sure, many will still find a reason to voe for others or pretend no one ever helped them, just like McConnel pretends no one else paid for his medical treatments as a kid so he wouldn't be in an iron lung. But enough of them will at least want to keep a good thing going. Otherwise, any ephemeral Dem hold on hispanics will always be fragile and easily countered by gerrymandering and divide-and-conquer strategies. P.S- Foreigner's question here: do any bigshot dems (leftists or liberals, doesn't matter) even bring up gerrymandering in any forceful capacity? It feels like such a big issue to be kept so quiet on the public discourse. I can't imagine any party in the world looking at graphs that show it grabbing majorities of the vote but getting less and less positions per capita and going "Yeah, this looks hopeful for the future."
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Aug 26, 2017 18:05
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Sephyr posted:Uggh. This is so aggravating. The liberal truism that "Hispanics are a growing block and the GOP shits on them, so we're bound to have an eternal majority soon!" just refuses to die. It's one of those weird zombie lies of politics, too useful (for certain people) to let go of. dems engage in gerrymandering too so it's tough for them to call repubs out on it
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Aug 26, 2017 18:09
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The democratic party has its own interest in having arbitrarily drawn out fiefdoms as well. Any earnest discussion about redistricting and what it actually means for the potential of democracy would raise some very inconvenient questions from the population.
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Aug 26, 2017 18:13
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Condiv posted:the nyt is a waste the nyt downplayed the holocaust, aided and abetted the prosecution of the iraq war and the op-ed page isn't worth using as toilet paper. it doesn't deserve its reputation and hasn't for decades
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Aug 26, 2017 18:32
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R. Guyovich posted:the nyt downplayed the holocaust, aided and abetted the prosecution of the iraq war and the op-ed page isn't worth using as toilet paper. it doesn't deserve its reputation and hasn't for decades In which the bad dems thread comes to the same conclusion Ann Coulter did fifteen years ago.
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Aug 27, 2017 00:35
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C. Everett Koop posted:In which the bad dems thread comes to the same conclusion Ann Coulter did fifteen years ago. oh well i guess that means ann coulter is extremely smart, guy who just got off probation for causing a massive derail with tea party poo poo
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Aug 27, 2017 01:11
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https://www.axios.com/2020-rumblings-gop-dem-combo-potential-emerges-2476905475.htmlquote:But a veteran operative emails: "Our political system is completely broken. Something big and historic needs to happen to break the logjam. I'm a big Dem but I'm for anything that ... does away with this hyper-partisanship on both sides that is paralyzing our government." Apparently the solution is to team up with John Kasich.
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Aug 27, 2017 01:39
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why is it that centrists, who are supposed to be woke and protect minorities, always want to join hands with racist republicans?quote:“I don’t need your people,” state Sen. Nina Turner said Republican Gov. John Kasich told her when she offered her help in building a racially diverse cabinet. All 22 of Kasich’s appointees since he took office Jan. 10 have been white, and only five are female.
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Aug 27, 2017 02:08
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Condiv posted:why is it that centrists, who are supposed to be woke and protect minorities, always want to join hands with racist republicans? Same ol' sorry rear end Nina. Kasich even offered her donuts and she still mad!!!!
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Aug 27, 2017 02:14
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What's the deal with donuts? I missed where that term came from -- I'm more of a corncob man myself anyways.
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Aug 27, 2017 02:19
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BadOptics posted:What's the deal with donuts? I missed where that term came from -- I'm more of a corncob man myself anyways. basically, nina turner and some activists from our revolution brought their policy proposals to the DNC headquarters, and was blocked from entry by a barricade and security cause the dems were afraid then they brought out some water an a small box of donuts for about 30 people and acted like they had treated everyone well. nina complained about this, and a bunch of centrists decided she was too uppity and she should've been happy for a the handful of donuts handed to a small crowd and the dnc ignoring everything else. so they decided to make donuts important to them cause they're upset about the corncob thing (which they think is a rape threat) it's really loving dumb, but that's centrism! Condiv fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Aug 27, 2017 |
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Aug 27, 2017 02:26
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BadOptics posted:What's the deal with donuts? I missed where that term came from -- I'm more of a corncob man myself anyways. Nina Turner went to deliver a petition on behalf of our revolution to the DNC. When she got there, there was a barricade and security guards who blocked her entrance and did not let her in. Instead, they offered her doughnuts and water. She then sent an email to our revolution members where she said: quote:“They’re pompous and arrogant enough to say to the people, 'you’re not good enough to be on our property — and, oh by the way, we’re just gonna hand you donuts and water over the barricade.' That is insulting. Absolutely insulting.” A bunch of the usual suspects, especially at Daily Kos, decided to pretend that it was an issue of uppity Nina Turner thinking that doughnuts were beneath her, rather than the much more obvious point of being kept away from entering the DNC by barricades and security guards. And as a payback for all the corncob tweets some people started putting donuts on their twitter handles. e:fb
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Aug 27, 2017 02:32
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C. Everett Koop posted:In which the bad dems thread comes to the same conclusion Ann Coulter did fifteen years ago.
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Aug 27, 2017 04:18
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joepinetree posted:Nina Turner went to deliver a petition on behalf of our revolution to the DNC. When she got there, there was a barricade and security guards who blocked her entrance and did not let her in. Instead, they offered her doughnuts and water. She then sent an email to our revolution members where she said: There's been more discussion of this in the Suck Zone, but the treatment of Nina Turner has been nothing short of amazing. If Republicans did something like that we'd never hear the end of it. At least I would hope.
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Aug 27, 2017 04:53
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