|
Karloff posted:The thing about the ASM films is how transparent they are as corporate rather than creative enterprises. All films of their scale of course are beholden to the interests of the money holders but with the ASM series it was laughable how obvious it was; the first one was desperately trying to ape the style and tone of Nolan, and the second so desperately wanted to build a shared universe and embrace the more silly aspects of comic books like the MCU.
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 02:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:This is such dull meta commentary that has been thrown at this movie since raimi got rightfully dumped as nerds flocked to revise history. You're not even engaging in what the film offers, just tossing out nothing's that don't even require you to view the film to espouse. ASM spidey has a ton of personality, from the real free swinging, to introducing the backpack to his cinematic silhouette, giving a normally stiff cgi animation some much needed grounding. The actual spiderlike choreography also adds much needed freshness when all raimi Spider-man did was trade blows like a frat boy. The scene on the bridge with the kid in the falling SUV has more heart than that entire trilogy. And the scene where electro kills and revives a man for a joke has more balls than the entire Raimi series. That scene is literally a callous re-do of a scene from Raimi's first film. The fact that you equate personality with Spider-Man having "real free swinging" and a "backpack" speaks volumes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
It IS true that Garfield Spider-Man's spider-like fighting style was really good in a couple scenes, but I always felt like it was kind of contradicted by the fact that his webshooters were mechanical.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 02:39
|
|
|
Karloff posted:The thing about the ASM films is how transparent they are as corporate rather than creative enterprises. All films of their scale of course are beholden to the interests of the money holders but with the ASM series it was laughable how obvious it was; the first one was desperately trying to ape the style and tone of Nolan, and the second so desperately wanted to build a shared universe and embrace the more silly aspects of comic books like the MCU. Being more toothless and forgettable than the MCU is almost an accomplishment in it's own right. I think this is the first time I've seen someone defend the ASM movies. Movies so bad they had to reboot and let Marvel have a shot at it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 02:40
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:This is such dull meta commentary that has been thrown at this movie since raimi got rightfully dumped as nerds flocked to revise history. You're not even engaging in what the film offers, just tossing out nothing's that don't even require you to view the film to espouse. ASM spidey has a ton of personality, from the real free swinging, to introducing the backpack to his cinematic silhouette, giving a normally stiff cgi animation some much needed grounding. The actual spiderlike choreography also adds much needed freshness when all raimi Spider-man did was trade blows like a frat boy. The scene on the bridge with the kid in the falling SUV has more heart than that entire trilogy. And the scene where electro kills and revives a man for a joke has more balls than the entire Raimi series. Source your quotes (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:07
|
|
|
Karloff posted:That scene is literally a callous re-do of a scene from Raimi's first film. Callous remake of what scene? And the train scene with the mask is a completely different context, where losing the mask is a weakness that the people on the train don't take advantage of. The mask on the bridge in ASM is presented as a strength to push past your doubts, so callous. And you don't understand how aesthetics play into the reception of a cgi driven film, especially ones like the raimi films which were right on the cutting edge of animation tech(at least the first one anyways)? Or how a simple addition of a backpack can make him appear more human than a living cartoon who just kind of lives and fights whenever he wants with the main penalty being Mary Jane stalking your mentions. So you wave away what actually makes up a film so that nothing is left to talk about except your meta commentary on how you think the film was created. Which doesn't matter at all to the finished product, which was something that captured the true spirit of the character,with Garfield nailing Parker, and it was shot well with decent action and the best Spider-man choreography and moments on film. But I get a little tingly every time I see the web shooters light up in ASM so what do I know? CelticPredator posted:Source your quotes Aren't you Mr Not my Superman himself?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
There's just no way that scene on the bridge would exist were it not for that subway scene. As stated, they very cynically lifted it. I mean, none of us were in the writing room of course but come on man. This isn't hard. That backpack was pretty cool though...haha Paul Giamatti was poo poo in ASM2 and what the gently caress was Electros motivation? The only thing I can think of was that he has a crush on Spider Man..? Is it unrequited love thing? It's hard to say, the villains in those two movies are so poorly drawn. I'm trying to think of a recent comic book movie worse that ASM2. Even that Fantastic Four movie had more interesting things going on. That body horror stuff..etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:31
|
|
|
Green Lantern maybe. It may be more design by committee than even ASM2
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:33
|
|
|
Super Fan posted:There's just no way that scene on the bridge would exist were it not for that subway scene. As stated, they very cynically lifted it. I mean, none of us were in the writing room of course but come on man. This isn't hard. That backpack was pretty cool though...haha No, that Fantastic Four movie is awful loving garbage. The first half of the movie is alright, there are a few hints of good ther,e but the last half is the most half-assed, poorly written, poorly made garbage. Like, it felt literally unfinished, as opposed to ASM2, which was less unfinished and more edited to death. Also Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone are the best Spider-Man and love interest combination in any of the movies, and Sally Field is a way better Aunt May than Rosemary Harris or Marissa Tomei.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Super Fan posted:There's just no way that scene on the bridge would exist were it not for that subway scene. As stated, they very cynically lifted it. I mean, none of us were in the writing room of course but come on man. This isn't hard. That backpack was pretty cool though...haha If you can't acknowledge the fundamental difference between the two scenes, you really can't say that one happened because of another when there's a wealth of comic book scenarios that I'm sure are more compelling than tobey McGuire holding in a poo poo. Then you continue with meta commentary, again not touching the films merits. Are we really asking about motivation when the joker exists and is lauded? But Jamie foxx plays a crazier funnier enigma, who has a cartoonish turn and he's poo poo? It's a comic book movie. His mental state being represented by the edm music was brilliant. What was poo poo about Paul Giamatti playing a hammy character? Isn't that what we want from cinema, our favorite actors chewing the gently caress out of a scene?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:41
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:If you can't acknowledge the fundamental difference between the two scenes, you really can't say that one happened because of another when there's a wealth of comic book scenarios that I'm sure are more compelling than tobey McGuire holding in a poo poo. Then you continue with meta commentary, again not touching the films merits. I'm saying the similarities are so glaring and obvious it completely undercuts any meaning the bridge scene in ASM had. Sure it's meta commentary but it's the same character in movies that weren't all that far apart from each other. It's hard not to notice that they just straight lifted it. The subway scene in Spider Man 2 is probably the most fondly remembered scene in the Raimi trilogy. They knew what they were doing. Lazy. quote:Are we really asking about motivation when the joker exists and is lauded? But Jamie foxx plays a crazier funnier enigma, who has a cartoonish turn and he's poo poo? It's a comic book movie. His mental state being represented by the edm music was brilliant. What was poo poo about Paul Giamatti playing a hammy character? Isn't that what we want from cinema, our favorite actors chewing the gently caress out of a scene? People already know Jokers 'thing'. The yin to Batmans yang, agent of chaos and all that. Heath Ledgers Joker flat out says what his motivations are. What the gently caress is Electro about? No one knows because the movie couldn't be assed to tell us anything remotely interesting about him. You seem to appreciate these movies staying close to the comics and Electro is nothing at all like that in them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:55
|
|
|
Super Fan posted:
Electro is Peter Parker if he wasn't a middle class white guy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 03:58
|
|
|
When Max Dillion got his powers it fixed the gap between his teeth
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 04:00
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:Aren't you Mr Not my Superman himself? I don't read D.C. or marvel comics so I don't have a Superman. I just think Man of Steel, and Superman's character is real lously.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
Super Fan posted:I'm saying the similarities are so glaring and obvious it completely undercuts any meaning the bridge scene in ASM had. Sure it's meta commentary but it's the same character in movies that weren't all that far apart from each other. It's hard not to notice that they just straight lifted it. The subway scene in Spider Man 2 is probably the most fondly remembered scene in the Raimi trilogy. They knew what they were doing. Lazy. quote:
Doesn't this make the movie lazy? And i swear you didn't see the movie. Electro is a mentally broken shunned nerd, who gets saved by Spider-man. Since Peter doesn't treat him like poo poo, he attaches this moment to self worth. When he gains powers and spidey is forced to confront him, broken electro feels betrayed. Dane then uses him as a weapon, which is shown explicitly in the defibrillator scene. I appreciate movies that understand and elaborate on characters as characters, where as modern marvel films hew so closely to the source material "events" without actually questioning what this means to the characters. So you've got brow beating Scarlett witch over a few deaths in civil war, when she was a literal weapon for global terrorists in the previous movie. CelticPredator posted:I don't read D.C. or marvel comics so I don't have a Superman. I just think Man of Steel, and Superman's character is real lously. Sucks you can't connect to a human finding out they're not normal and how they must deal with this responsibility while being actively hunted. Check out Midnight Special for a look at an objectivist Superman. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 04:31
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:I don't read D.C. or marvel comics so I don't have a Superman. I just think Man of Steel, and Superman's character is real lously. No, it's that you don't (or refused to) pick up social cues and subtleties and characterization in a movie that had heaps of each. Here's a Superman story more to your demonstrated level of active engagement. 
Drifter fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 04:32
|
|
|
Drifter posted:No, it's that you don't (or refused to) pick up social cues and subtleties and characterization in a movie that had heaps of each. Whew even that cover might have too much property damage for them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:What's glaring obvious? That they don't have masks on? If that is all it takes to be unoriginal, then burn down Hollywood now. You don't understand how raimi frames the loss of the mask as dangerous where Webb frames it as a tool for good? quote:And i swear you didn't see the movie. Electro is a mentally broken shunned nerd, who gets saved by Spider-man. Since Peter doesn't treat him like poo poo, he attaches this moment to self worth. When he gains powers and spidey is forced to confront him, broken electro feels betrayed. Dane then uses him as a weapon, which is shown explicitly in the defibrillator scene. quote:I appreciate movies that understand and elaborate on characters as characters Uh..what? ---------------- No matter how objectivity awful a movie is SOMEONE out there liked it. A loving Amazing Spider Man 2 apologist 
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 05:07
|
|
|
Super Fan posted:OK, so Webb (or Sony studio execs) flipped it in the laziest way. The framework is the same. It's SHITE. I always figured it was more of an Of Mice And Men type thing, except I also don't remember enough of ASM 1/2 to say that I disliked it. It's just a hazy mess in my head.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
Drifter posted:I always figured it was more of an Of Mice And Men type thing, except Something something, Superman beating Bizarro to death while crying. Edit: Punching, crying, punching while crying
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 05:54
|
|
|
saying that the SUV scene is lifted directly from the Raimi movies, specifically when Spider-Man is at the mercy of the crowd on the train seems pretty bad faith. Then again this is the comic book megathread so that shouldn't be a surprise. The point of the SUV scene is to show that Spidey will try to help others, even if it means the bad guy gets away because it's "the right thing to do". Does that mean it was "the right thing to do" for the people in the train to leave Spidey's mask on? Does that mean that Christopher Nolan was plagiarizing Raimi's work when he had one of the criminals take the remote and throw it out the window at the end of The Dark Knight? It honestly sounds like that's what you're trying to say, because getting mad at something like that seems really silly when you could just latch onto how dumb Uncle Ben's death is in ASM1.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 06:03
|
|
|
Inescapable Duck posted:Something something, Superman beating Bizarro to death while crying. Aces High posted:It honestly sounds like that's what you're trying to say, because getting mad at something like that seems really silly when you could just latch onto how dumb Uncle Ben's death is in ASM1.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 06:05
|
|
|
Super Fan posted:OK, so Webb (or Sony studio execs) flipped it in the laziest way. The framework is the same. It's SHITE. It's pretty sad you have no actual thoughts on the movie that doesn't have to do with raimi getting kicked off the movie and the meta commentary that entails. I enjoy film and shows that take characters/types and play with what it means to be that character, like Ang Lee's hulk, man of steel and bvs, even Nolan Batman twists the character of Batman and Bruce. Labeling me an apologist to cover your shitposts isn't an argument.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 10:00
|
|
|
I was thinking more that the SUV scene is taking massive "inspiration" from that extremely similar scene from the first movie where he is also hanging off a bridge with one arm while holding a vehicle with the other. I find it baffling really. The biggest hurdle that ASM had to clear was in some ways to justify a re-telling of the origin story so soon after it had already been done. There are some elements that had to be repeated; the spider-bite, Uncle Ben being shot. But why contrive an action sequence so similar to a sequence in the original film when you can literally do anything else. It's indicative of the chronic lack of imagination that the film had. But merely being redundant wasn't ASM's biggest problem; the fact that it has a three act structure where the acts are actually not even meaningfully connected is where it completely falls down. The first act revolves around the mystery of Peter's parents but then that deeply boring mystery is unceremoniously dropped as soon as Peter gets bit so that the film can go into a remake of the 2002 films for its second act. Uncle Ben is shot again, but it doesn't really have much impact on the character aside from pissing him off until the point where he kind of stops caring about whoever killed his Uncle (completely removing the fable esque quality of Spider-Man's origin story and emptying it of any thematic meaning). Why he forgets about his Uncle's murderer is a mystery but apparently that story line gets resolved, I gather, in the ASM2 videogame of all places. The final act with the Lizard is just boilerplate super-hero film stuff; with every beat that these films are "supposed" to have mindlessly hit. Like the producers felt it needed a scene like the inspirational train moment in Spider-Man 2 so they just randomly interjected that nonsensical crane sequence but don't actually use it to communicate anything about the character, it's just this very cynical bit of empty manufactured drama to pad out the climax. The CG Spider-Man is good though, and it's nice that Gwen Stacy isn't kidnapped, though they more than walk back that slice of progressiveness in the second film where they victim blame Gwen Stacy for her own death,
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 10:31
|
|
|
In a lot of ways, I preferred the ASM films to Raimi's. The chemistry between Peter and Gwen was much better for one thing. The suit in ASM2 will never be topped either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 15:36
|
|
|
The one thing, ONE thing, that could make the ASM2 suit better is if its colors were brighter. Or it went the opposite direction and had bright red and black. Design wise, yeah no, that's perfect. Shame about how it torpedoed itself. having now seen Civil War, for the record, the Giant Man stuff was about as awful as those gifs made it appear, and Spider-Man's suit is just really bad. I KNOW they had a physical suit, but they covered it in so much CGI gloss and poo poo that it just looks like a flat cartoon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 15:46
|
|
|
Raimi's Spider-Man movies were so bad they had to reboot them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
Burkion posted:having now seen Civil War, for the record, the Giant Man stuff was about as awful as those gifs made it appear, and Spider-Man's suit is just really bad. I KNOW they had a physical suit, but they covered it in so much CGI gloss and poo poo that it just looks like a flat cartoon. Even as someone who loved Civil War I have to say the Spider-Man suit really was weird. Was that done to try to make it easier to work in with all the other CG going on his scenes? It failed. I liked Giant Man though because I had gone in completely blind beyond the teaser trailer so that was a fun surprise.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 16:14
|
|
|
I never for one second bought the chemistry between Garfield and Stone mostly because of Garfields previously mentioned mediocre to bad acting. The guy just doesn't play a convincing Peter Parker. Don't really get the love for that cheap looking suit either
Super Fan fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Aug 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
Burkion posted:...and Spider-Man's suit is just really bad. I KNOW they had a physical suit, but they covered it in so much CGI gloss and poo poo that it just looks like a flat cartoon. My main issue with it was you couldn't see the webs on it. Just make them thicker. It also had a little too much going on with the panels and seams, leading to a lot of extraneous elements that really didn't add much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:My main issue with it was you couldn't see the webs on it. Just make them thicker. It also had a little too much going on with the panels and seams, leading to a lot of extraneous elements that really didn't add much. his eyes moved, though, which was cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
Detective No. 27 posted:Many by Batman himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULSvR6hhyI
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Drifter posted:his eyes moved, though, which was cool. meh...Didn't do much for me. That costume in ASM2 is a Bagley drawing brought to life and I loved it. How was Giamatti "garbage" in part 2 though? He was great for the 5 minutes of screen time they gave him. I haven't seen Homecoming yet (not inspired by the previews) but I liked the character in Civil War and Keaton is always great so I'll check it out. I think Garfield was fine in ASM. Webb's films had scripting and pacing issues for sure but I think if you took the best parts of what Webb and Raimi both did you'd really have something. The cast in both ASM films was actually one of the high points to me and the romance subplot didn't bring the film to a screeching halt for once. Conversely, The dynamic between Dunst, Maguire and Franco was really loving terrible, especially after binging through the trilogy this weekend. SM3 is just a complete mess but frustrating because you can see a good movie in there somewhere trying to break through.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 17:29
|
|
|
The only person that stood out in those Amazing Spider Man movies was Sally Field but she's good in everything. I'm glad Garfield is gone because....yeesh. What a mess. Giamattis "Russian" accent is genuinely embarrassing as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 17:43
|
|
|
If you're going to put Giamatti into something you can't have him be a 5-minute side anything. Giamatti needs space to be who he is when he acts.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
Giamatti is a solid actor and he sound like loving Yakov Smirnoff in that movie. Just the worst thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
Drifter posted:his eyes moved 
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 18:04
|
|
|
I think he said on some talk show years ago that if he could play a comic book character it would be the Rhino, and I guess someone at Sony saw that and got excited so cast him in a glorified cameo. He's no more or less thinly sketched then any of the other two villains in the film, but as he doesn't actually have to carry any of the story and just shows up and shouts a bunch of poo poo he's probably the best villain in the film.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 18:04
|
|
|
I have no clue how anyone can hate what they did in ASM 2 with Electro and Giamatti is always so much fun.They both did great. The costume was perfect. Plus they committed to Gwens death which was good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 18:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
Gatts posted:I have no clue how anyone can hate what they did in ASM 2 with Electro and Giamatti is always so much fun.They both did great. The costume was perfect. Plus they committed to Gwens death which was good. The plot sucked, the pacing sucked, most of the action sucked and the movie overall fell in on itself.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2017 18:27
|
|