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still processing this episode. so much happened in game of thrones, that was an actual good episode for once, but Candie's smile when she agrees with Coop that the Mitchum Bros have hearts of gold was better than finding out that R+L=J. By far.
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Aug 28, 2017 13:54
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Data Graham posted:I loved the use of the theme music to punctuate that baller dialogue and the successive reveals of Coop's regained competence, but am I the only one who thinks it was a little bit of a pulled punch? Feels like this would have been a perfect place for a new cut of music, perhaps a new remix of the theme with a bit more triumph and drive to it. Give it some drums, kick up the tempo a little. You know, a reprise, reworked for a dramatic moment, not just pressing Play on the track you already have. i liked the use of the old lietmotiefs feels like "We are back in Twin Peaks, Finally!" I bet we're gonna hear the whole soundtrack!
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Aug 28, 2017 13:54
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this episode could have been the first episode
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Aug 28, 2017 14:01
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tao of lmao posted:Yeah this. I really appreciate the slow, deliberate pace of this season, and feel like this season of Thrones is cheapened for its need to race to the end. Every big moment in this season of Twin Peaks feels earned. But you know what's really amazing, is that he totally earns the small moments, too. People are complaining about Richard's entire plotline now being "pointless", and the same with Hutch and Chantal. Calling them "filler". I really despise that term, and want to remind people that "filler" is actually a term derived from anime adaptations of manga, and having to make up entire plot arcs to wait for the source material to catch up. That's what "filler" is. Nothing in Twin Peaks: The Return could be even remotely construed as filler, in my opinion. I felt like every scene has been precisely placed and plotlines have been following their own organic flow. Also, just because Richard is dead does not mean his character was meaningless, or that his "plotline" has ended. The fact that Evil Cooper really and truly raped a comatose Audrey is really loving horrific and dreadful. The fact that he took advantaged of Diane and actually got off on her fear and sense of betrayal and raped her is also horrifying, and god knows what actually happened to the real Diane.. I should also add that I think Audrey is in what one would call a "disassociated state" and I'm very curious to find out exactly where she is. When you think about it, being committed to a mental institution wouldn't be much different from trapped in some interdimensional waiting room full of backwards-talking people making entirely opaque remarks. Probably kinda similar, TBH. I was talking earlier in the thread about how Lynch needs to double-back on what intrinsically made the original show so powerful: that a large part of the show had to do with the horror and consequences of domestic abuse/rape/incest/etc. Real-life horrors that actually exist and happen all the time behind closed doors in sunny suburban America. That was a huge part of the show's power. And I feel like (among EVERYTHING ELSE this episode did) it also did a great job with this, too. I think a lot of credit has to go to Laura Dern and that she really imbued that monologue with power. We all knew that Bad Coop had almost certainly raped her that night, but the way she's trying to tell this story about what happened that night, and once she gets to the point in the story where she realized something was wrong, she cannot say anything more and does not remember anything more. She just cries out "He raped me!! He raped me!!!" and that's when the mood in the room takes a palpably frightening turn - a line has been crossed and the "real" Diana breaks through, and seems to start speaking through her tulpa.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:03
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Baloogan posted:this episode could have been the first episode
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Aug 28, 2017 14:03
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Chantal running out of cheetos was amazing foreshadowing. Dougie is speaking with a lot of assurance.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:04
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Basticle posted:So how come fake Diane seemeto have all of the real Dianes memories but fake coop (the original green jacket dougie) didnt Then again, so does Albert a few episodes ago.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:09
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So, are the last two episodes actually a single two-hour episode? Or will there just be two new episodes available for streaming next week at 8?
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Aug 28, 2017 14:16
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Polo-Rican posted:So, are the last two episodes actually a single two-hour episode? Or will there just be two new episodes available for streaming next week at 8? Seems like 1 and 2 were combined into one streaming episode at the beginning.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:19
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I'd assume it'll be treated in the same way as episodes 1 and 2. On NowTV, those are treated as one, double-length episode.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:19
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Re: talk about filler and whether stuff contributed to the main plot To put it in terms goons might understand, there's no distinction in Twin Peaks between "story missions" and "side missions". Harry Dean Stanton watching a kid's soul go into heaven or Sheriff Truman looking at fish jpegs is no less "important" than anything involving Cooper/Bad Cooper. Twin Peaks is and has always been "here are things happening, enjoy."
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Aug 28, 2017 14:25
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kaworu posted:Calling them "filler". I really despise that term, and want to remind people that "filler" is actually a term derived from anime adaptations of manga, and having to make up entire plot arcs to wait for the source material to catch up. That's what "filler" is. Actually, it's what you put in a pie.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:26
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:Actually, it's what you put in a pie. That's "filling".
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Aug 28, 2017 14:34
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General Dog posted:Re: talk about filler and whether stuff contributed to the main plot twin peaks the game coming to PS4 mash A to wave hands in air at portal
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Aug 28, 2017 14:35
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General Dog posted:Re: talk about filler and whether stuff contributed to the main plot Yeah I wouldn't say there's a lot of "filler," but they do spend a lot of time "fleshing out" some core concepts. Seasons 1 and 2 — especially the very beginning of season 1 — went to great lengths to show how Laura Palmer's death affected just about everyone in the town. This season shows how the existence of Mr. C, and the portals themselves, affect the town and a larger web of people throughout the country. There's a much more obvious focus on good vs evil this time around and it's vaguely implied that the portals influence the balance.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:36
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When people say the show isn't developing some concepts enough, they're really saying "I wish we got to spend way more time with the Cocaine Wizard" and I agree.
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Aug 28, 2017 14:39
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:When people say the show isn't developing some concepts enough, they're really saying "I wish we got to spend way more time with the Cocaine Wizard" and I agree. 
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Aug 28, 2017 14:48
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also
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Aug 28, 2017 14:53
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How come Gordon didn't get deafened by all the gunfire   I am The FBI Greatest show ever made!
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Aug 28, 2017 14:54
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There has been zero filler so far, lmfao if you think there has been. Also i doubt richard is dead, they didnt want to vaporize bad coop, they want bob out of him (still think they got that) and mike wants him back in the lodge. Also it was electric zapping and the shadow of richard reminded me of the cover for lynch's The Big Dream album. We know electricity is used for travel, i bet richard is in one of the lodges or the dutchmans motel or even the red room.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:03
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Season 4 will involve Cooper going on a hunt for his newly BOB-infested son.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:06
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The main problem with this season for me has been that for a show called Twin Peaks, the events taking place in the actual town of Twin Peaks have felt somewhat disjointed and unfocused. There have been many great individual character moments like Bobby's entire arc and delightfully weird poo poo like Sarah Palmer and Jack Rabbit's Palace, but the town lacks the sense of community and connection that the original series had. Places like the Sheriff's Department, the Double R and the Great Northern feel like disconnected islands because the events are so scattered throughout the season, the chronology is loving weird and it feels like we are missing significant pieces of some plotlines. I wish we would have gotten some more scenes of characters talking about and reacting to stuff like the kid getting run over, the drug epidemic in the town or just the general vibe of things being hosed up. I'll grant that we'll probably get some of that in the finale once Coop appears in town, but with all the other poo poo left to resolve I don't know if it can be completely "fixed". gently caress me but I really want a season 4 now.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:08
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Cromulent posted:I actually completely forgot about that whole thing with Hastings's wife and lawyer. If that doesn't come into play next week, that was especially useless. There are reasons for the other things you listed, however superfluous they may be, but the wife/lawyer stuff didn't do anything for anybody. There was a ton of importance to those characters and plot, both in terms of actual events in the series as well as to set up important themes and worldbuilding at the beginning of the season. It was the first indication that there were humans working with the black lodge spirits, it was where Evil Cooper initially got the coordinates to twin peaks (the only true coordinates at that), it was a link between Briggs and the curret investigation beyond a floating head, and it was the path that lead the FBI to actually seeing the woodsmen. Posts like this are nuts. Every side plot has at least some importance. Even Duncan Todd (though I'd have to think harder about that one  )Zmej posted:Did anyone find Tammy's "wow, a tulpa!" really awkward and bad timing? Come on Tammy, the poor lady just revealed being raped, then was emotionally and corporeally ripped apart. Tammy is a nerd, I had no problem with it. The 'gently caress you' was a bit on the nose a bit, entering into catchphrase territory. Some of the critiques you and a couple other posters make really make me think you just value other things than I do in good tv :/ 3. Thoughts on Jeffries, the coordinates, and what we now know: Okay, so Jeffries was in fact working with Ray, and was lying to Cooper above the store. that much is simple enough. but there's some questions that come up now. The phone call from episode 2, Mr. C thought that was Jeffries but then thought it was not. Did it turn out to be Jeffries after all? Also, the fact that Jeffries was lying calls into question many aspects of that conversation. Information about Judy, etc. Honestly though this is all murky so if anyone else wants to take a stab please do. As far as the coordinates - the true coordinates came from Hastings breaking into the military base, which then went on his arm. Ray got these from the secretary on Jeffries' orders. We are then to assume that Ray worked with Jeffries to provide false trap coordinates. Then Diane got the coordinates from the arm and provided them in this episode. BUT - why did she wait so long to provide them? CJacobs posted:There are too many plot threads stuffed in, too many characters. Having side plots is fine and helps break up the progression of the 3-ish main stories, but there are characters on this show that have had 3 scenes total and we're expected to care about their storyline even though said scenes are miles apart in the runtime. We're not given enough time to care about half these people. This is crazy, they add flavour and depth and the sense that it's a bigger world. What makes you think you are supposed to be anything by the Cocaine Wizard but intrigued? I can't believe 16 episodes in people are still thinking of this show as any kind of conventional narrative, except so far as those conventions are explicitly put up to then later (or earlier) be subverted. Characters don't need to have a point. Did they make you feel *anything*? even confused? even frustrated? then they served their point. 5. I don't think audrey is in a mental institution. that mirror did not look institutional, and the pure white background was right out of the coma dream textbook 6. What caused Diane to fly away and go back to the lodge? was it being shot or was it the spiritual agitation of confronting the violent reality of her own creation? What was the impetus for her telling her story rather than doing what assumedly she was being activated to do with the :-) all command? 7. oh my gosh the rape debate, please let this end, yes you were right, but I don't think many people ever said there was no way you were right, just that it wasn't meant to be a big reveal or something that we're meant to be guessing at like a Lost mystery or whatever. going 'called it!!' is beyond weird. 8. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, "Audrey's Dance". Chills. How the gently caress did this one episode have so many crazy, iconic scenes. Wow.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:11
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It was great to see Sherilyn Fenn change completely and so easily slip back into Audrey Horne mode. So, if we accept that the ringing sound was to get Bushnell out of the hospital room, then why is it also ringing in the Great Northern? Possibly, nonsensical theory, if Audrey is in a coma then maybe that's where she's 'living' and the constant ringing is an effort to get her to wake up. Might also explain why Ben Horne has seemingly changed his ways since his comatose daughter is living in his hotel. It's been great watching the Mitchum Brothers, I loved their "What's this crazy Dougie up to now?" when they're told to fire up the plane. Finally, as for the rape thing, I think the show clearly posits it early on so when it is confirmed it's not treated as this major revelation. By contrast, GoT last night took something that people have clearly figured out and treats it like a big game changer as did WESTWORLD, only it was more embarrassing for that show because it monologues for about 10 minutes about something that most people had figured out hours before. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 15:18
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Escobarbarian posted:That's so crazy that people including me were right about Evil Coop both being Richard's dad and raping Diane, even though it was only creepy rape-obsessed goons who could have possibly thought that way. You're smug about predictions so obvious and banal most people didn't voice them? I think you need some perspective.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:20
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Regarde Aduck posted:You're smug about predictions so obvious and banal most people didn't voice them? I think you need some perspective. Clearly you haven't been reading the thread.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:28
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The Walrus posted:This is crazy, they add flavour and depth and the sense that it's a bigger world. What makes you think you are supposed to be anything by the Cocaine Wizard but intrigued? Fleshing out the world is important, but there are ways to do it that don't involve characters who explicitly set up plot threads (cocaine wizard) that literally never come up again. Red appeared, said his piece, and disappeared except for his quick reappearance to make Bobby feel bad later on. That's not good writing, regardless of whether it's only intended to make you feel bewildered or confused or intrigued or not. And I was intrigued by Red, because I expected him to go somewhere. Unless something is actually done with it, I didn't need to feel those things. Not everything that makes you feel something is absolutely necessary.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:33
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My issue with the Diane = Naido is that they don't look alike. What we've been told about tulpas is that they're doppelgängers, identical. Diane, if nothing else, seems to have a good 8+ inches on Naido. That being said, I have no idea what else she would mean about being in the sheriff's department. Excited for Freddie to punch his way through the jail cell bars and then through bad coop's face.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:33
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CJacobs posted:Fleshing out the world is important, but there are ways to do it that don't involve characters who explicitly set up plot threads (cocaine wizard) that literally never come up again. Red appeared, said his piece, and disappeared except for his quick reappearance to make Bobby feel bad later on. That's not good writing, regardless of whether it's only intended to make you feel bewildered or confused or intrigued or not. And I was intrigued by Red, because I expected him to go somewhere. Unless something is actually done with it, I didn't need to feel those things. Not everything that makes you feel something is absolutely necessary. And I think that the idea of 'necessary' in terms of conventional TV writing is exactly what Lynch was trying to dispense with. I also think he succeeded, to a large degree. I've been captivated the whole way through. This might be an agree to disagree thing, because it is what it is and it is clearly intentional for better or worse.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:39
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kaworu posted:
You're kidding about this right?
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Aug 28, 2017 15:41
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hanales posted:You're kidding about this right? Filler is when an episode of Dragon Ball spends the first five minutes recounting the last episode and then five minutes of Vegeta gasping, not when there's a plotline you don't like
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Aug 28, 2017 15:43
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Sherilyn Fenn posted an image on Twitter of Audrey dancing in a purple spotlight. Purple light on Audrey. Purple = White Lodge / Place Where the Fireman Lives ? Or just a purple light.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:46
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The Walrus posted:And I think that the idea of 'necessary' in terms of conventional TV writing is exactly what Lynch was trying to dispense with. I also think he succeeded, to a large degree. I've been captivated the whole way through. This might be an agree to disagree thing, because it is what it is and it is clearly intentional for better or worse. I agree that he successfully broke the conventions of standard television several times throughout the show. The majority of episode 8 is good evidence of that. Where I think I start having problems, however, is when the show acts like the old Twin Peaks- it gives us small chunks every episode of the lives of people surrounding the events of the main plotlines. But like I said before: There are just too many characters to juggle to pull that off and have it be emotionally connecting. I do not care about Becky and Steven, we saw them 3 times outside of a couple 30-second snippets. In the moment I felt for them, yes, but it was because I assumed they were going to be given more depth, more screentime, over a shorter period. I was wrong, but I should have been right. It's not something you can justify with "he was trying to break the conventions of tv/storytelling" because it's those moments where it successfully purposefully mimicked the old show that actually made me care. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 15:47
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I think this latest episode puts that 2 and a half minute long shot of the Roadhouse being cleaned up by the one guy and the scene finishing with a Renault picking up the phone into perspective. It gave you 2 and a half minutes to get a good look at the real roadhouse and being told that if there's a Renault behind the counter, it's the real Roadhouse. Audrey's Roadhouse doesn't have that detail. At least in this latest once, since there were two barmen behind the counter and neither one of them was a Renault.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:48
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The Walrus posted:I can't believe 16 episodes in people are still thinking of this show as any kind of conventional narrative, except so far as those conventions are explicitly put up to then later (or earlier) be subverted. Characters don't need to have a point. Did they make you feel *anything*? even confused? even frustrated? then they served their point. James season 2 scenes make me feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them good. I've really loved the majority of this season but there absolutely are parts today make me feel nothing (Albert explaining Blue Rose stuff to Tammy), characters that I feel nothing for (Duncan Todd is a good example) and characters I really liked but would have liked to have seen more than once or twice.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:50
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Is it wrong for me to believe that Coop & Mike were doing a lot of the manipulation behind the multiple attempts on Bad Coop's life? It seems when Booper showed up at the convenience store to confront Jeffries, teapot jeffries behaved as if they haven't communicated. It makes me believe that it was Mike manipulating electricity to make booper believe he was getting messages from Jeffries. Hence getting sent coordinates to a rock that would arc flash him to death. I'm still not sure what the arm wants, and going back through old footage it seems that the arm is a bob fan because the arm loves gorging on the garmonbozia that bob collects... hence why mike "took off the arm." He didn't want that part of himself anymore after seeing the face of god supposedly. The convenience store seems like separate place from the lodge itself. It seems like a halfway point between the lodge and our reality and if I recall from FWWM mike was never shown in the convenience store. It seems like the nuclear blast from ep 8 created this environment and allowed the bad lodge folks to start ramping up their efforts to screw with our reality and violate the normal way the lodge is supposed to work with our reality.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:51
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:James season 2 scenes make me feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them good. that wasn't lynch and twin peaks season 2 isn't twin peaks season 3. again I guess it's just an agree to disagree thing, you say that there are characters and parts that made you feel nothing but I was at least intrigued by every single second of this 16 hours so far. like I said and you alluded to, Duncan Todd is kind of the one exception, but thinking on it I think he might be intended to be the epitome of this narrative style. He's vestigial in every sense of the word, even though he has more scenes than any of the Hornes. He's there to further impress on the viewer that, like real life, not every narrative element is a neat bow with no redundancies or dead ends. CJacobs posted:. It's not something you can justify with "he was trying to break the conventions of tv/storytelling" because it's those moments where it successfully purposefully mimicked the old show that actually made me care. but you have to realize, this is you actively resisting what he's going for, right? especially in contrasting the conventions of S2 and S3.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:02
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:Also, I noticed a while back that in the musical scenes this season the crowd is always the same. Same people, same clothes. I originally noticed that one hipster dude with the glasses in all of them. Sometime around Comicon, I read an interview that stated that all the musical scenes were filmed back to back on the same day. The audience was made up of the cast and crew's family and trusted friends so as to keep leaks to a minimum. Speaking of musical numbers, this is a friendly reminder that Eddie Vedder...
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Aug 28, 2017 16:03
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Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray
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Apple Craft posted:
lol I'll fess up, halfway through that my girlfriend said she didn't like the performance much and I piped up with 'yeah he's like a mediocre Eddie Vedder impersonator'
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Aug 28, 2017 16:04
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G-III posted:Is it wrong for me to believe that Coop & Mike were doing a lot of the manipulation behind the multiple attempts on Bad Coop's life? It seems when Booper showed up at the convenience store to confront Jeffries, teapot jeffries behaved as if they haven't communicated. It makes me believe that it was Mike manipulating electricity to make booper believe he was getting messages from Jeffries. Hence getting sent coordinates to a rock that would arc flash him to death. I posted about this a few up, would love some more discussion on it rather than the differences of opinion on style or rape I think you might be right that Jeffries is working with Mike, but I'm not sure that extends to Coop. The question is though, if Jeffries is working with Mike why would Mike need to pretend to be Jefferies?
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Aug 28, 2017 16:09
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