Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce	44	21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress	19	9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin	9	4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit	8	3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died	24	11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread	17	8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter	15	7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming	2	0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy	10	4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union	5	2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die	25	12.14%
Total:	206 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Alertrelic: Apr 18, 2008

Findlay or Rowley seem likely from the left, maybe Monica Lennon will have a punt if they want to play the gender angle, probably facing Sarwar from the right. Jackie "I love nukes" Baillie might also be in the running. Richard Leonard seems like a cool guy from what I've seen in Parliament, but he sounds English as gently caress and would face an uphill battle if it came to an election for First Minister. It's the Natalie Bennett problem.

From what I'm hearing in the left, nobody actually forced her out,. but who knows really. More likely its the right trying to take the initiative behind a refreshed leader with a renewed mandate. Hope it backfires for them.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 07:16

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# ? May 11, 2024 13:52

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

forkboy84 posted:

Well, The Graun's Scottish editor seems to think that "Corbynite" support will coalesce behind Anas Sarwar

forkboy84 posted:

Maybe Scottish labour could merge with the Greens & just appoint Patrick Harvie as leader.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 07:50

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

forkboy84 posted:

Also wonder who is going to stand. Will Findlay run again? Alex Rowley? hosed if I know any other Labour MSPs. Well, The Graun's Scottish editor seems to think that "Corbynite" support will coalesce behind Anas Sarwar which is bewildering to me, but I'm not really plugged into Scottish Corbynite circles. And there's the simple reality that there's just a lower proportion of them in ScotLab compared to the rUK. Someone else has mentioned Richard Leonard who I'd honestly not heard of before. Maybe Scottish labour could merge with the Greens & just appoint Patrick Harvie as leader.

Would unironicallly be behind the idea of Harvie as leader. Is anyone up on the various labour msps who have a shout? That there's no one who stands out and plenty of forgettable faces and performers isn't a great sign. Scottish Labour's had a problem with bland suits and trade union time servers for a long time, even more so than UK labour i think, so it's not a hugely inspiring pool to pick from

# ? Aug 30, 2017 08:21

cargohills: Apr 18, 2014

Realistically, Richard Leonard is the only potential left-wing candidate. Findlay won't do it and Rowley would open up the Deputy Leadership, meaning that we'd need another candidate for that anyway. The only other left-wing MSP I'm aware of is Elaine Smith but she supported Brexit and is quite shaky on some social issues including abortion iirc.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 12:02

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

forkboy84 posted:

Maybe Scottish labour could merge with the Greens & just appoint Patrick Harvie as leader.

The Greens themselves would do better generally if they would just appoint Patrick Harvie leader.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 12:14

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Aramoro posted:

The Greens themselves would do better generally if they would just appoint Patrick Harvie leader.

How would that change anything? Bearing in mind that under Harvie & Chapman they are now the 4th largest group at Holyrood.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 12:43

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

forkboy84 posted:

How would that change anything? Bearing in mind that under Harvie & Chapman they are now the 4th largest group at Holyrood.

Chapman has been proven to be divisive in the party with people refusing to campaign for her in her failed bid to become an MSP. It also adds to the feeling that the Greens are pulling in different directions quite often or have no clear leadership.

I think it's a lot easier to credit Patrick Harvie with the increase in support for the Green at the last election, though perhaps Chapman does a lot behind the scenes.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 13:42

cargohills: Apr 18, 2014

I've heard quite good things about Chapman. Why is she unpopular?

# ? Aug 30, 2017 15:41

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Commonspace did a funny article on contenders for Scottish Labour leader

My favourite parts are hard to choose between including Neil Findlay despite him categorically ruling himself out, or the fact that none of the 5 names bothered to respond to their request for a statement.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 17:08

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

cargohills posted:

I've heard quite good things about Chapman. Why is she unpopular?

Most people are neutral about her as they've got no idea who she is or even that Patrick Harvie isn't the party leader. She may have accidentally (or not) lied about having a Phd which caused a bit of a ruckus especially when they tried to purge the people that were refusing to campaign for her because of it.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 17:20

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

Alertrelic posted:

The SNP are using it as a tool to attack him and it pretty much confirms that Dugdale et al would be governing us in the same way.

six hours later posted:

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/902646519156940800

Alertrelic posted:

From what I'm hearing in the left, nobody actually forced her out,. but who knows really. More likely its the right trying to take the initiative behind a refreshed leader with a renewed mandate.

i'm sure the labour right is just desperate to put another question to the membership (it's worked out for them so often before!) and they didn't really want that NEC majority anyway

# ? Aug 30, 2017 18:40

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Nice change of pace from Rab this week

https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/902947123653697536

# ? Aug 30, 2017 19:53

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

Pissflaps posted:

Nice change of pace from Rab this week

https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/902947123653697536

loving disgrace that this man is published but no paper will print my columns written in authentic Tyke

# ? Aug 30, 2017 20:28

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Pissflaps posted:

Nice change of pace from Rab this week

https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/902947123653697536

Lol that spoof account is still hitting it out the park.

( looks closer at username)

oh.

# ? Aug 30, 2017 22:08

Juliet Whisky: Jan 14, 2017

I loved Rowley's excuse -- he doesn't want to be First Minister. I'd have thought that being the leader of the Scottish Labour Party would have been a good choice for him there.

It's a messy business this Scottish Labour and Dugdale's tenure is quite illustrative of this: despite being celebrated on the odd occasion when she stood up for personal principles, she was forced to tread a ridiculous line in the name of party unity, which saw her making repeated volte-faces and having to recant entirely sensible positions in favour of absolutist ones that the Party thought were more effective against the Nats. She's been credited with a Labour resurgence which doesn't exist -- the last election's successes were predicated by a fall in the SNP turnout.

Antagonism from the CFS (Campaign for Socialism, local analogue to Momentum) has been credited for her downfall but it's more likely to be the actual personal reasons cited in doing this thankless task. Certainly CFS haven't successfully pushed their own candidate, whoever it is, as an alternative.

Your man Leonard who has been cited as the left candidate must surely have been part of developing the recently-espoused policy which acknowledged the paradox of Holyrood's tax-raising powers whilst simultaneously using them to penalise the poor (i.e.: we will inflict the top rate of tax the SNP are afraid to and make up for the inevitable increase in tax evasion by the wealthy by increasing taxes for everyone else). Not a winner.

I'd love to see a proper left candidate get in to support the Nationalists against the Tories whilst attacking them from the left but I can't see it happening. This being unlikely, let's hope Jackie Baillie becomes leader, as an illustration to the rest of Scottish Labour as to what they have become, and a precipitant of the purge which is long overdue.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 12:53

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Kezia saying she was outed against her will now.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 15:02

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Jedit posted:

Kezia saying she was outed against her will now.

Of course she is. God Scottish Labour is so garbage. I really wish they weren't but this is the lovely world we live in, where a decade on from their first humiliating loss at Holyrood they are still struggle to come to turns with no longer being the natural party of government in Scotland.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 15:11

mehall: Aug 27, 2010

forkboy84 posted:

Of course she is. God Scottish Labour is so garbage. I really wish they weren't but this is the lovely world we live in, where a decade on from their first humiliating loss at Holyrood they are still struggle to come to turns with no longer being the natural party of government in Scotland.

No Outed. Out the closet.
Not from her job.

e; not that either would surprise me.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 15:26

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

forkboy84 posted:

B) honest mistake, I thought it said ousted as in from the leadership, not outed as in about her sexuality. Just wasn't paying attention, bit embarrassing.

in that case, lol never mind

Cerv fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Aug 31, 2017

# ? Aug 31, 2017 15:58

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Cerv posted:

sure, why not get on board with tabloid homophobia if it allows you another excuse to attack Labour

A) This is stupid, I'm fully onboard the Corbyn bus, doesn't mean Scottish Labour doesn't have problems. B) honest mistake, I thought it said ousted as in from the leadership, not outed as in about her sexuality. Just wasn't paying attention, bit embarrassing.

Yeah, someone outing Kez publicly after she asked them not to is not on.

# ? Aug 31, 2017 16:01

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Good news

quote:

Nicola Sturgeon will scrap the 1% cap on public sector pay rises when she sets out her legislative plans for the coming year, it is understood.
The first minister will announce the measure when she reveals her 2017-18 programme for government on Tuesday.
The SNP had committed to lifting the pay cap for public sector workers earlier this year, describing it as "increasingly unsustainable".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41141373

Curious how it will be funded

# ? Sep 3, 2017 21:29

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

So here's a thing, Ruth Davidson has written an interesting article in Holyrood magazine, giving a pretty sharp and succinct critique of the SNP. It's a good article in the sense that it's clear, coherent and makes a narrowly compelling case, albeit one which requires some rather colossal caveats and glaring omissions (try ctrl+F "austerity" for instance). She makes some very valid points, particularly on failed and/or broken policy promises and manifesto commitments, and does so in a way which is, frankly, much better argued than most of what I've seen coming from Scottish Labour in the past n years. She also makes some terrible points, but that's a given - and any canny non-Tory could easily deploy her arguments to attack Tory policies and approaches (esp on mental health).

Interestingly, the article is very governance-focused, and there's only passing mention of independence. It's Davidson proclaiming the Tories as the main opposition of course, but I think that it also provides a chink of light for Labour if it's taken as indicative of how Scottish political discourse is evolving. In the long run I think Labour have been the party who have been damaged most by the debate (and the votes) being oriented around the constitutional question, and the possibility of opening things up means an opportunity to develop a coherent-ish policy platform and message without getting too bogged down by independence.

It's definitely worth reading the whole thing, especially if you want to find arguments and assertions to get annoyed at, but to give a sense of the better aspects of it:

quote:

Compared to 2007, the Scottish Government has significantly more powers at hand than it ever did before.

In theory, this should mean more positive change, more flexibility on a range of key topics, and an opportunity for a tailored approach specifically suited to Scotland�s needs.

...

In 2007 Alex Salmond arrived in Bute House as first minister on the back of a series of pledges.

Among them was a promise to reform council tax, something that was repeated in the 2011 manifesto. He said he wanted to �scrap the unfair council tax and replace it with a system based on ability to pay�.

Fast-forward a decade and little has changed. In fact, the SNP has only succeeded in whacking up payments in certain parts of the country, like the Lothians and Aberdeenshire, where people in modest family houses are now being regarded as millionaires.

In primaries one to three, the SNP said, we�d see smaller classes sizes, reducing them to 18 or less, meaning children would have more time with their teacher and, as such, have more room to develop.

But by 2016, the average class size was 23.4, with little over one in 10 classes hitting the SNP�s original target.

On mental health, there was a pledge to reduce the number of anti-depressants prescribed by GPs.

Now it�s more common than ever for doctors to prescribe tablets, while those brave enough to wait for counselling face delays of up to a year.

It would be unfair to lay an increase in cases of depression at the door of the SNP, but as the government in charge of mental health, it has to do more than allowing prescription drugs to be the only solution.

If there were more counsellors and better access to alternative therapies, we would soon see these numbers going down.

...

So what are its excuses for the pledges set out in 2011, after which it couldn�t even blame being in a minority for holding it back?

�After a period of drift since devolution,� its manifesto platform stated, �the first assessment under an SNP government shows that the tide has turned, with Scottish pupils performing above the international average in reading and science, at the international average in maths and at the same level as in England and Northern Ireland and better than Wales.

�We are determined to see an increased performance in the next PISA survey.�

In subsequent assessments, Scotland�s performance was so bad it led to front-page newspaper headlines of a �generation failed� by the SNP.

Since then Scotland has gone down the league tables, to the extent where the Scottish Government doesn�t even want to take part in these global standards anymore.

Between 2012 and 2015, performance in maths, reading and science all reduced significantly, a direct violation of the SNP�s election manifesto.

...

It is said the SNP is now going to shake up local government, tackle climate change with new policies and encourage women back into work after maternity leave.

While noble enough, this had all been promised before. It�s evidence of a stale government, rattled by its own dismal failures, and one that is completely out of ideas.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 13:43

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Gotta say I'm liking these announcements.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...MP=share_btn_fb

A national investment bank sounds fun.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 19:31

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

What is it about the SNP outflanking the Tories that you like the most, supposed socialist Coohoolin?

# ? Sep 5, 2017 20:15

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

Gotta say I'm liking these announcements.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...MP=share_btn_fb

A national investment bank sounds fun.

It does sound interesting, but unfortunately a national investment bank isn't in the SNP's programme. Oddly, the article you linked to doesn't really cover any of the announced bills at all, offering only the most comically conspicuous propaganda. Case in point, the SNP's pisspoor record on education is blamed on, er, "teachers and the opposition."

As for the bills themselves they seem pretty inoffensive, but they're also so self-evidently managerial that claiming them as "radical" seems almost parodic. It's all "targets" and "consultations" and "more engagement." It reads - and this seems intentional - as a programme of tweaks and adjustments to existing structures, all about things being "improved," "enhanced," made "clearer" and "simpler." So, basically, that Guardian article is a worthless piece of poo poo is what I'm saying.

quote:

At-a-glance: Scotland's legislative programme 2017-18

The Scottish government plans to introduce 16 new bills during the 2017-18 session of the Scottish Parliament. Here is a look at those bills in more detail.
Budget Bill

The annual Budget Bill provides parliamentary approval for the Scottish government's spending plans.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon also announced that she would work with all parties to open a discussion on income tax in Scotland.
Climate Change Bill

This bill sets out "ambitious" new targets for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. It will also introduce low emission zones in Scotland's four biggest cities by 2020.

Ms Sturgeon said a further target in the bill would be for new petrol and diesel cars and vans to be phased out in Scotland by 2032 - eight years ahead of the target set by the UK government.
Crown Estates Bill

The Crown Estate Bill will establish a framework for the management of Crown Estate assets. It aims to ensure that Scotland's local communities, authorities and industry can benefit from this change.
Damages Bill

This bill will amend the law on the Personal Injury Discount Rate following a joint consultation with the UK government. It will also enable courts to impose periodical payment orders when making an award of damages for a personal injury.
Education Bill

The bill will take forward the programme of education reform which began in the last parliament.

Included in the bill are plans to establish a head teachers' charter, improve parental and community engagement, as well as strengthening the voice of children in supporting pupil participation.

The Scottish government also said it would provide a "fair and transparent funding system".

Read more analysis on the Scottish government's plans for education here.
Land and Buildings Transaction Tax Bill

This bill will make changes to the laws around second homes and allow Additional Dwelling Supplements to be retrospectively reclaimed in some circumstances.
Management of Offenders Bill

The bill will include measures to enable new technologies to be used for electronic monitoring - and allow this sort of monitoring to be used as part of more community sentences and orders.

It will also reduce the length of time which many people will be required to self-disclose previous offences and make the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 more accessible for individuals and employers using the legislation.
Minimum Age of Criminal Responsibility Bill

The bill will increase the minimum age of responsibility from eight to 12, which the first minister said was in line with "international norms".

Ms Sturgeon also announced that the Scottish government would not oppose John Finnie's proposals to prohibit the physical punishment of children
Organ and tissue donation bill

This bill will establish a "soft" opt-out system for the authorisation of organ and tissue donation and is designed to allow more lives to be saved by organ donation.
Planning Bill

This bill includes measures for a "simpler, more effective" system of development plans so it is clearer how areas will develop in the future.

The Scottish government said that communities would have better opportunities to influence the future of their areas as a result of the bill.
Prescription Bill

This bill implements the recommendations of a Scottish Law Commission Report to ensure the law of "negative prescription" is clear and fair. Negative prescription establishes the time-limit within which an aggrieved person must raise a claim in court.
Safe Staffing Bill

The Safe Staffing Bill will deliver on a commitment to enshrine in law the principles of safe staffing in the NHS. It is designed to ensure that nationally-agreed workload and workforce planning tools are applied.
Sexual Offences (Pardons and Disregards) Bill

This bill will ensure that people convicted of offences related to same-sex sexual activity that is now legal will receive an automatic pardon.

The bill will also enable those pardoned to apply to have such convictions removed from criminal records.
Transport Bill

The Transport Bill includes provisions on smart ticketing on public transport and will tackle "obstructive and inconsiderate" parking.

It aims to enhance and improve the role of the Scottish Road Works Commissioner and make changes to the the wider regulation of road works. It also contains measures to help improve local bus services.
Vulnerable Witnesses and Pre-recorded Evidence Bill

The bill builds on a review of evidence and procedure by the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service.

It will remove legislative barriers to allow the greater use of pre-recorded evidence for child and vulnerable adult witnesses.
Warm Homes Bill

The Warm Homes Bill will set a new statutory target on fuel poverty which the Scottish government said would further progress on this issue.

It will also include measures to improve the energy efficiency of Scotland's homes.

# ? Sep 5, 2017 21:36

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Labour claim that SNP voted down public sector pay cap end is Mostly True, according to The Ferret

quote:

The First Minister has announced the Scottish Government�s plans for the next parliamentary session, known as the programme for government.

Among the pledges contained in the document was a move to scrap the public sector pay cap from 2018, which has been in place across the UK since 2013.

While this was received positively by trade unions and political parties alike, for Scottish Labour this amounted to a u-turn by the SNP government.

On the party�s website, it was claimed that an end to the public sector cap had been �inspired� by the Labour manifesto and that the SNP had previously voted against it.

Anas Sarwar, who proposed the motion in question, also took to Twitter to say SNP MSPs voted against his proposal.

Ferret Fact Service assessed this claim and found it to be Mostly True.

Evidence

The cap on public sector pay was first brought in by then-chancellor George Osborne in 2013, replacing a previous two-year pay freeze with a one per cent cap on pay increases. This did not include those on the lowest salaries, who received a marginally higher increase.

The current Conservative government policy was for pay scales in the public sector to rise on average by one per cent each year up to 2020. The one per cent does not necessarily reflect those workers who move through pay bands, and therefore will have a larger than one per cent increase despite the salary for each band being capped.

The policy has been attacked by unions and rival politicians as inflation led to higher living costs across the UK.

The latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show 543,000 people employed in Scotland�s public sector, with 486,800 (89.6 per cent) under the devolved control of the Scottish Government.

This means that the Scottish Government has the power to set the pay of nearly 90 per cent of Scotland�s public sector workers. Until Tuesday�s confirmation of the plan, Nicola Sturgeon�s government had broadly stayed in line with the UK-wide pay cap of one per cent.

Scottish Labour�s claim that the end of the public sector cap was inspired by its policy is primarily based on the party�s 2017 general election manifesto. In it, the party pledges to �end the public sector pay cap, because public sector workers deserve a pay rise after years of falling wages.�

The SNP�s 2017 manifesto made no such promise, but instead argued against the UK government�s pay cap. It stated: �We recognise that at a time of rising inflation, public sector pay caps become increasingly unsustainable.�

However, Scottish Labour were not the only party to advocate such a position. The Scottish Greens have consistently opposed the Scottish Government�s pay cap, although they have not made it a manifesto pledge.

Scrapping the cap has been Scottish Liberal Democrats policy since 2015, but it was not featured in their manifesto until 2017.

Current Labour leadership candidate Anas Sarwar was behind a members bill motion on May 10, 2017 to end the pay cap for NHS workers in Scotland and give staff a real terms rise above inflation. It was raised during a debate on NHS pay, and suggested that �the parliament believes that the NHS pay cap should be scrapped and that NHS staff should be given a real terms pay rise.�

However, an amendment from the SNP�s Shona Robison removing the commitment to scrap the cap was instead passed by 62 to 55, effectively ending the proposal from Anas Sarwar. This was a motion relating to only the one per cent cap on NHS pay rather than the wider public sector.

The motion as amended by health secretary Robison was passed, so SNP MSPs technically did not vote against the motion, but instead for the motion, significantly changed by the amendment. However, this is a standard way to stop unwanted legislation passing through the Scottish Parliament, so it is accurate to say the SNP members voted against scrapping the NHS cap.

The SNP has been in opposition to the UK-wide continuation of the policy, and has argued that the imposition of a cap on devolved NHS staff has been a result of continued cuts to the the Scottish Government�s budget. However this claim is dependent on how the budget is classified, with disagreement on whether Scotland�s powers to raise tax should be taken into account when assessing budget cuts.

When the plan to scrap the cap was first revealed in July 2017, Scottish Government finance minister Derek Mackay wrote to the Chancellor Phillip Hammond to urge him to �lift the one per cent pay cap for public sector workers in public bodies reserved to the UK Government and to urge the independent pay review for NHS staff to do the same.�

The Scottish Government has also mitigated the impact of the one per cent cap on pay for the lowest earners, with those earning up to �22,000 receiving an additional sum of around �400. Ministers also point to starting salaries for the lowest paid in the NHS in Scotland being higher than the other nations of the UK.

Furthermore, it should be noted that the SNP�s imposition of a pay cap in line with the UK government policy is similar to the approach taken by the ruling Labour Party in Wales, which has so far refused to end the cap.
Ferret Fact Service verdict: Mostly True

The Scottish Labour manifesto did indeed suggest that the public sector pay cap be ended, but while the SNP did not go as far as to explicitly call for it, they acknowledged the policy was �increasingly unsustainable�. However, the party did vote down Anas Sarwar�s bill calling for an end to the cap specifically for NHS staff in May 2017, instead passing an amended version which made no commitment to end the cap itself.

In all honesty I suspect if the roles were reversed Labour (and the SNP) would be doing more or less exactly the same as the other is doing right now, but given how much of the SNP's support has come from disillusioned Labour voters it's important to chip away at the myth that the SNP are a) left wing, and b) different to other political parties

# ? Sep 11, 2017 21:05

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

forkboy84 posted:

What is it about the SNP outflanking the Tories that you like the most, supposed socialist Coohoolin?

you're surprised about a swiss person being excited over an investment bank?

# ? Sep 12, 2017 01:44

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Is anybody at the rally in Glasgow today to celebrate three years since the independence referendum?

# ? Sep 16, 2017 11:27

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

I went to a demo in Glasgow last week and it was great because the group who were supposed to be organising it didn't turn up because they decided to go to someone else's thing earlier that day instead and didn't tell anyone. Top lads. 10/10 would be politically involved in Glasgow again.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 11:36

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

The pictures I've seen on social media suggest this one is much better organised. There's at least 200 people there, most wearing flags. One guy has bagpipes that blow fire.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 11:38

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Pissflaps posted:

One guy has bagpipes that blow fire.

You should have opened with that. Where is it George square ?

# ? Sep 16, 2017 11:50

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Freedom Square.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 11:52

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Pissflaps posted:

Freedom Square.

I thought this was some dumb thing you'd made up to take the piss, but apparently, no, some people really are that cringy:

quote:

“Slight change of route after refusal by GCC to allow march to finish at freedom square or march would not be approved."

# ? Sep 16, 2017 12:29

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Niric posted:

some people really are that cringey

People unironically buy the national

# ? Sep 16, 2017 12:31

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

jre posted:

People unironically buy the national

I enjoyed their recent photoshop cover of May's face onto Henry VIII.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 14:48

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Coohoolin posted:

I enjoyed their recent photoshop cover of May's face onto Henry VIII.

It wasn't a Photoshop.

# ? Sep 16, 2017 15:37

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

Sorry but did someone say Bagpipes that blow fire?

# ? Sep 16, 2017 20:25

Not Operator: Jan 1, 2009; Not A doctor, THE Doctor!

Extreme0 posted:

Sorry but did someone say Bagpipes that blow fire?

I dunno about this particular guy but there was a video doing the rounds a few years ago of an Australian punk playing AC/DC with flaming bagpipes.

edit: this is it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzZLNwqvdQ

# ? Sep 16, 2017 20:48

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Something potentially interesting happening in Holyrood today: MSPs to debate income tax rise proposal (BBC), with Labour pushing for the SNP to "pick a side" (Holyrood magazine). Each party's starting position appears to be a very conscious attempt at broad political positioning, with everyone except the Tories and the SNP being explicitly in favour of some kind of tax rise. I think it's a smart move from Labour to force the debate, even if I doubt it'll have much serious impact on perceptions of parties or even policy.

Also interesting to see the National pre-empting the debate by pushing the story that tax rises will just increase tax avoidance (I think Richard Murphy makes a good point, but he's also more balanced on the question of the rise than the National implies). Which suggests to me they want to give nationalists a get-out for siding with the Tories.

# ? Sep 20, 2017 09:24

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# ? May 11, 2024 13:52

Communist Bear: Oct 7, 2008

Quite looking forward to Sarwar winning so that Scottish Labour is even more irrelevant.

# ? Sep 20, 2017 11:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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