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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Lightning Knight posted:If you spent years in jail for daring to bring forth evidence that your nation had committed atrocities, under administrations from both parties, you'd have a chip on your shoulder too. If she's tweeting dumb poo poo about both parties being the same in the same week where trump bans transgendered people from the military and dismantles DACA, she deserves some pushback. I'm not sure people taking the time to treat her political views seriously and comment on them is some terrible crime.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:32
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:or more importantly, it isn't on the people who could be victimized to not act in self-defense because their attackers may at some point in the future potentially relent Kokoro Wish posted:Note that while they treat people out of being Nazis and White Nationalists, their real prescription for stopping these groups is to basically stop treating vulnerable/isolated people like poo poo so they don't get attracted to groups like this in the first place. Especially the mentally ill, who are targeted overmuch. It's a fight for societal change I can get behind, plus an actual long term solution to the problem. Fight and confront these people on the street, by all means, but know you're only fighting the symptoms instead of treating the cause of the infection.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:34
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>treat her views seriously >write screeds about how she only gets a pass for being trans hm. hmmmmm. HMMMMM. Also it literally doesn't matter what dumbshit things Manning does or doesn't tweet, she's still done materially more than anybody in this thread ever has or will in terms of exposing the bad things our government does in our name and she spent years of her life in federal prison for it. "Both sides are the same" is like the lowest hanging bad opinion fruit, who honestly cares?
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Sep 1, 2017 22:36
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JeffersonClay posted:If she's tweeting dumb poo poo about both parties being the same in the same week where trump bans transgendered people from the military and dismantles DACA, she deserves some pushback. I'm not sure people taking the time to treat her political views seriously and comment on them is some terrible crime. This transgendered people deserves to be tarred and feathered for her views on gender politics. So say I, the guy whose views are synonymous with losing.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:37
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Lightning Knight posted:If you spent years in jail for daring to bring forth evidence that your nation had committed atrocities, under administrations from both parties, you'd have a chip on your shoulder too. Never forget John Kiriakou. The only person arrested and convicted in the CIA torture scandal. And he was the loving whistleblower. Thanks Obama. This is the legacy I will always remember you for.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:45
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Y'all just keep taking the bait.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:46
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Mister Facetious posted:Never forget John Kiriakou. The only person arrested and convicted in the CIA torture scandal. What are u talking about, Obama freed the whistleblowers, much like he freed the Guantanamo prisoners and amnestied immigrants! That's why respectable liberals call him the best president ever!
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Sep 1, 2017 22:49
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JeffersonClay posted:The easiest way to get me to stop posting here is for you to stop posting easily disproven nonsense. I just can't resist low hanging fruit. Yeah but Joy Reid is really dumb and bad dude, like to the extent that I think even you would agree about it. She has posted roughly a zillion hilariously bad takes since the election.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:01
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah but Joy Reid is really dumb and bad dude, like to the extent that I think even you would agree about it. She has posted roughly a zillion hilariously bad takes since the election. If the wrongness of JR were self-evident as you claim, she wouldn't be a subject to a nearly cult following. If somebody parrots JR's viewpoints, you need to assume they are completely honest simply because there are thousands of people who see her as a relevant political analyst.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:04
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Lightning Knight posted:>treat her views seriously Yes, ignoring her like some cute trans mascot is actually worse than engaging with her politics on their merits. steinrokkan posted:This transgendered people deserves to be tarred and feathered for her views on gender politics. So say I, the guy whose views are synonymous with losing. Excellent reading fail here. Ytlaya posted:Yeah but Joy Reid is really dumb and bad dude, like to the extent that I think even you would agree about it. She has posted roughly a zillion hilariously bad takes since the election. Like that might well be true but I don't think "Julian Assange is a megalomaniacal rapist" and "democrats shouldn't spend a lot of effort trying to appeal to white supremacists" are among them, as Condiv apparently does.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:16
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^^^ Yeah, but at a certain point part of posting/arguing in good faith is to only address the best arguments made by the people you disagree with. Condiv obviously has a very strong tendency to just credulously interpret anything he sees in a way that supports his own narrative of politics, etc, but there are also other posts that are much better. Also, while the "fascist sympathizer" stuff might seem dumb (since I'm sure you probably don't actively hold any views that are particularly fascist), the main point is that you have the sort of political views/opinions that result in allowing such harmful movements to grow without real resistance. Like, I hate to do a Godwin, but Germany's petit bourgeois liberals - who probably didn't necessarily hold Nazi views themselves - effectively ended up aiding the Nazis through similar inaction and not resisting them until it was too late. To be clear, I don't think we're hearing down the path to Nazis taking power or anything; the argument here is just that you're the sort of person who would be complicit in allowing such a thing if it actually did happen. steinrokkan posted:If the wrongness of JR were self-evident as you claim, she wouldn't be a subject to a nearly cult following. If somebody parrots JR's viewpoints, you need to assume they are completely honest simply because there are thousands of people who see her as a relevant political analyst. Yeah, but JC's posting has always struck me more as someone who just has a bizarre contrarian hatred towards leftists than someone who is ideologically committed to Hillary and what have you (like all the hillfolk twitter people or Fulchrum). His style is more to just focus on the lowest hanging fruit of things he sees leftists (or people otherwise opposed to the mainstream Democratic Party) saying than to specifically come out in support of the most dumb things liberals post. Let's just test this instead. JC, below are a few Joy Ann Reid tweets that are unambiguously hilariously dumb. I'm gonna generously assume that you would agree these are some phenomenally dumb takes. https://twitter.com/dwdavison9318/status/888480332214927360 https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/861312867018174465 https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/774288003678277633 Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 23:21
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You shouldn't ignore her because she's a "cute trans mascot," you should ignore her because she's not relevant anymore. That's not a criticism - she paid her dues. But her opinions don't matter and she's not posting anything particularly offensive. Come back if she posts something racist and I might give a poo poo. Seriously you're whining because someone who spent time in federal prison to expose American war crimes is posting troll opinions that people in this thread routinely argue for, that's so lame and pathetic. wowser that's actually a lot worse than I had seen in other places.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:31
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Imagine centrists as ¡Jeb; low-fiving Trump... forever.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:42
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This is my favorite Joy Reid moment. https://twitter.com/William__Hicks/status/885473850636587008
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Sep 1, 2017 23:43
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Chelsea Manning is insanely good and brave and I wish she was my friend. Her Twitter takes are generally win.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:55
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, but JC's Just to clear up any possible disagreements, when I said JR I meant Joy Reid not the poster know as JeffersonClay.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:04
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JeffersonClay posted:Like that might well be true but I don't think "Julian Assange is a megalomaniacal rapist" and "democrats shouldn't spend a lot of effort trying to appeal to white supremacists" are among them, as Condiv apparently does. Casting left-Dems' proposed strategy as "trying to appeal to white supremacists" is, in fact, a terrible, extremely misleading take.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:19
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Also a kinda ironic one given the amount of centrists who are very insistent that the fash should have the right to terrorize communites at will and the intended victims are just as bad for defending themselves.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:26
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Lightning Knight posted:You shouldn't ignore her because she's a "cute trans mascot," you should ignore her because she's not relevant anymore. That's not a criticism - she paid her dues. But her opinions don't matter and she's not posting anything particularly offensive. Come back if she posts something racist and I might give a poo poo. "There's no difference between the democrats and republicans" is offensively dumb. If tweeting about Chelsea Manning' tweets is a dumb waste of time, what is posting about people tweeting about Chelsea manning' tweets? Ytlaya posted:Also, while the "fascist sympathizer" stuff might seem dumb (since I'm sure you probably don't actively hold any views that are particularly fascist), the main point is that you have the sort of political views/opinions that result in allowing such harmful movements to grow without real resistance. Like, I hate to do a Godwin, but Germany's petit bourgeois liberals - who probably didn't necessarily hold Nazi views themselves - effectively ended up aiding the Nazis through similar inaction and not resisting them until it was too late. To be clear, I don't think we're hearing down the path to Nazis taking power or anything; the argument here is just that you're the sort of person who would be complicit in allowing such a thing if it actually did happen. Oh Jesus, gently caress that noise. If you don't think Bernie would have won you're aiding the Nazis is some brain dead logic. quote:Yeah, but JC's posting has always struck me more as someone who just has a bizarre contrarian hatred towards leftists than someone who is ideologically committed to Hillary and what have you (like all the hillfolk twitter people or Fulchrum). His style is more to just focus on the lowest hanging fruit of things he sees leftists (or people otherwise opposed to the mainstream Democratic Party) saying than to specifically come out in support of the most dumb things liberals post. I have to share a coalition with y'all. Smart leftist arguments actually help the Democratic Party--I see no reason to refute them. Dumb leftist arguments, like for instance "there's no difference between the parties", harm the Democratic Party and are intensely annoying. Dismantling those arguments both feels good and benefits us all. And since you won't police yourselves, I've found a niche. quote:Let's just test this instead. JC, below are a few Joy Ann Reid tweets that are unambiguously hilariously dumb. I'm gonna generously assume that you would agree these are some phenomenally dumb takes. Those are dumb tweets.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:29
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gently caress off and iron your poo poo colored shirt elsewhere.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:50
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Amazing trolling from the Observer https://twitter.com/observer/status/903429077469716480
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Sep 2, 2017 00:52
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The point of "both parties are the same" is to say that the democrats are just as reprehensible as the republicans, not that their actions in every situation are completely the same.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:53
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Quit responding to Jefferson clay you God damned morons. It isn't practice. Practice would be going to the gun range.
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Sep 2, 2017 00:54
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saying both parties is the same is stupid, because one is an elephant and the other is a horse
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Sep 2, 2017 01:03
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Majorian posted:Casting left-Dems' proposed strategy as "trying to appeal to white supremacists" is, in fact, a terrible, extremely misleading take. She was criticizing the idea that democrats should try to win back trump supporters. If that's not your strategy, don't get upset at the statement? Did she make any reference to the left at all in that interview? I don't see it in the transcript.
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Sep 2, 2017 01:11
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Elotana posted:Amazing trolling from the Observer lmao things this article gets right: the rest of the country is actually substantially more conservative than anyone on this website is, mostly on social issues. This is very much so a bad thing. things this article gets hilariously wrong: Mark "the nerdiest nerd to ever nerd" Zuckerberg literally could not beat any of the people he lists that are also probably going to run individually, let alone all together. Either way gently caress Zuckerberg, he's awful and he's not going to win poo poo.
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Sep 2, 2017 01:11
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Jizz Festival posted:The point of "both parties are the same" is to say that the democrats are just as reprehensible as the republicans, not that their actions in every situation are completely the same. That's still an offensively stupid argument.
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Sep 2, 2017 01:12
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JeffersonClay posted:That's still an offensively stupid argument. I disagree with it, but I don't see how it's offensively stupid. The democrats are pretty awful.
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Sep 2, 2017 01:14
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JeffersonClay posted:That's still an offensively stupid argument. You're right. Bill Clinton actually went further than the GOP ever could with regressive social, criminal, financial, and workerist policy.
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Sep 2, 2017 01:34
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Mister Facetious posted:You're right. Bill Clinton actually went further than the GOP ever could with regressive social, criminal, financial, and workerist policy. It was the spirit of the times! Peer pressure! I was already the uncool kid because I hadn't gotten my ear pierced with along everyone else! He had to deregulate financial crap or they'd never have elected him to a....third presidential term!
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Sep 2, 2017 01:38
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JeffersonClay posted:That's still an offensively stupid argument. remember back when hillary voted for building a wall to keep mexicans out good times
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Sep 2, 2017 01:41
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I can see a very good personal argument why Manning would feel both parties essentially are the same (ie both parties ignored her being tortured).
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Sep 2, 2017 01:47
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Mr Hootington posted:Quit responding to Jefferson clay you God damned morons. It isn't practice. Practice would be going to the gun range. best post in this thread 
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Sep 2, 2017 01:58
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Yeah, at a certain point, when a poster very clearly isn't going to ever give up a position, what is there left to say? It is probably more useful to talk with posters who new to the thread who have now idea what is going on.
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Sep 2, 2017 02:01
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Tbf, without JC, this thread would be a tenth of its size and involve dissecting meaningless Twitter fights.
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Sep 2, 2017 04:00
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lmao what is this loving awful take http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235
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Sep 2, 2017 04:11
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shrike82 posted:Tbf, without JC, this thread would be a tenth of its size and involve dissecting meaningless Twitter fights. That would be fine by me. Talking about ways to push the window to the left and make progressive discourse and policy viable beats having to deal with wobbly centrists trying to make excuses to themselves about why their deathgrip on the party will finally yield positive results now, if you lefties don't muck it up, just wait and see! And yeah, it's kind of creepy how basically every 'liberal' website and newspaper suddenly started talking about Antifa in tones usually reserved for Timothy McVeigh.
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Sep 2, 2017 05:22
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I watched that video about recognizing fascist tells, did Trump seriously make the OK sign when he was denouncing the "very bad people on the left?"
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Sep 2, 2017 05:56
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Please please please don't let the ok sign mean fascism to you now. Don't be a dipshit.
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Sep 2, 2017 06:00
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Ytlaya posted:^^^ Yeah, but at a certain point part of posting/arguing in good faith is to only address the best arguments made by the people you disagree with. Condiv obviously has a very strong tendency to just credulously interpret anything he sees in a way that supports his own narrative of politics, etc, but there are also other posts that are much better. first, joy ann reid liked a quote from a guy who just got done calling chelsea manning a traitor and claimed she was receiving more leniency than she deserved cause she's transgendered. like, she liked that guy's response to chlesea manning's response to his article. it's p obvious she hates transgendered people when she buys into the bullshit of jamie kirchick like that. https://twitter.com/fudgeposner/status/903255081117655041 https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/903281024125329408 https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/903307065963278338 JC is arguing in bad faith cause he's trying to separate context from joy reid's actions, cause he would like to imagine it was just some tweet taking a swipe at assange in a vacuum. quote:Also, while the "fascist sympathizer" stuff might seem dumb (since I'm sure you probably don't actively hold any views that are particularly fascist), the main point is that you have the sort of political views/opinions that result in allowing such harmful movements to grow without real resistance. Like, I hate to do a Godwin, but Germany's petit bourgeois liberals - who probably didn't necessarily hold Nazi views themselves - effectively ended up aiding the Nazis through similar inaction and not resisting them until it was too late. To be clear, I don't think we're hearing down the path to Nazis taking power or anything; the argument here is just that you're the sort of person who would be complicit in allowing such a thing if it actually did happen. that's what fascist sympathizer means ytlaya. he takes the side of nazis, and does it gladly and willingly. call to action is one of the only other ones who pull this poo poo that i call a fascist sympathizer. it's not like i go around calling anyone who disagrees with me a sympathizer. just people who pull poo poo like this: JeffersonClay posted:He's not saying both sides are bad and he's not parroting trump's rhetoric. He's criticizing antifa initiating violence at a previously nonviolent protest. He doesn't have a problem with a bunch of counterprotestors showing up and peacefully standing up to a bunch of idiot Trump supporters. He has a problem with antifa turning a nonviolent protest into a violent one. he credulously believed idiot claims that antifa made a protest violent, rooted around for more idiot claims that antifa turned things violent when he was called out, and then when people told him to gently caress off en masse for that, he searched hard so that he could try to find a way to make antifa look bad. he's a fascist sympathizer through and through. Condiv fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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