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I saw it as laura realized that she didnt know what year it was either because they're both stuck in some dead reality ala langoliers.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:12 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 06:16 |
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:13 |
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The Gif must be quoted at the top of every page forever and ever amen.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:16 |
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Booper Cooper Dooper.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:18 |
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It's kind of insane that we only really understand who's going to defeat Bob (one of the main villains of the series) for 4 episodes out of 48+the movie.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:20 |
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Aergo posted:Well, that has to be where the name Madeline Ferguson comes from! I didn't know that reference. Also, Scotty's sort-of girlfriend in the film is named Margaret Wood. Margaret is the Log Lady's name. Maybe Lynch is trying to say we need to look at the show's influences for the key? Cooper realizes who he is when he sees Gordon Cole mentioned in a clip from Sunset Blvd., which is another one of Lynch's favorite movies. Not directly related, but apparently Lynch loves The Shining... which is kind of neat considering Kubrick was heavily inspired by Eraserhead for that film.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:37 |
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I'm sure Judy can just puke out another bob
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:42 |
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Origami Dali posted:I'm sure Judy can just puke out another bob Evil obviously still exists in the Odessa dimension, so even if it isn't taking the same form it did in Twin Peaks, Bob still exists.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:59 |
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Shibawanko posted:I mean I get it I think. Richard dreamt the whole thing up and the "white lodge" is his dream's projector room inside of his brain. The nuke from ep 8 is a dreamlike distorted image of ejaculation, signifying unsatisfying sex with someone he doesn't love from which the bad karma spirit BOB was born in a spermlike cloud. BOB was Cooper's self-image. Laura was a fantasy of an innocent victim for him to save from his own guilt, and at the same time a reminder of his guilt. I guess Lynch felt Cooper was too good to be true. It's like the silly Eddie Vedder song 2 episodes ago, about who you could have been had you done things differently, but you are now running out of time to change. The last part is where the dream oddly spills back into reality, because your fantasies structure your real life, like the Mulholland Drive scary face. What is it with people and just writing everything off as meaningless when they hear the word "dream". We have no idea what dreaming entails in this context. Maybe ALL universes are dreams. Maybe it just means how one percieves their reality. Maybe one of the cast is the dreamer but that doesn't make their reality, or the inhabitants, any less "real". You're free to speculate but don't just write fanfiction and then get angry at it.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:18 |
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I'm still catching up with the thread (holy poo poo like 30 pages) but this:Little Mac posted:Theory and analysis, long and meandering so feel free to skip: Is a very good post and definitely makes Episode 18 make a bit more sense. I stand by my previous statement that it pissed me off because there are so many non-cooper plot threads that arent ever mentioned again. It pisses me off that Audry, Becky/Jonathon, Shelly/Red etc. may as well not even have been in the loving show because their scenes have no context or resolution. Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show? Basticle fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Sep 6, 2017 |
# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:20 |
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I think the secret probably lies in the scene with the French woman
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:25 |
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Little Mac posted:Theory and analysis, long and meandering so feel free to skip: I 100% approve of this and it makes the finale seem more thoroughly resolved.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:35 |
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The window cleaner was Judy
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:37 |
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The fireman's the dreamer. Everything on the screen in his theatre is literally inside his mind. When he gives birth to Laura's seed, it literally floats up out of his head as a physically manifested idea (read up on Lynch talking about ideas "bubbling up to the surface" to catch, like fish), and is then reinserted back into his dream via the contraption on the ceiling. When bad Coop enters the theatre, he again becomes an idea, caged by the fireman, who can control him and put him wherever he wants in his dream. Meanwhile, Major Brigg's head is in the theatre, now an idea removed from the dream. Think of it as quasi-lucid dreaming. The fireman can't completely control his dreams, they have a life of their own just like our dreams. But from his theatre, he can lucidly watch it and insert things into the dream if it gets out of hand, such as the atomic bomb birthing evil. What we think of as reality in the show, whether it's og Twin Peaks reality, or Odessa reality, is all just the dream of the fireman. It doesn't mean it isn't real, in the way that our dreams aren't real. It just means that the universe and reality as we know it was created by the mind of the fireman, who is essentially as close to a God as we can expect. To be able to travel to lodges is like to go behind the scenes of the inner working of the dream without the fireman, and willingly manipulate it. The rules break down, time can shift, identities can change, because you've basically hacked the system. The chant "fire walk with me" is just a line of code that gives you access to the system (like bad Coop somehow hacking the entire prison system with a magic box and a rotary phone). This is why Coop is so calm before he goes off to save Laura. He's aware of what reality is (his overlaid face during the scene tells us he knows), because Laura told him herself. Her whisper to Coop was "we live inside a dream".
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:41 |
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[quote="Basticle" post=""476108158"] Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show? [/quote] Gotta be "Call for Help" - we get Dale in the mauve zone, the Doppelgänger driving, Dougie 1.0 with Jade, and Dale Dougie at the casino. It's the only one I can think of that really shows off the whole set of characters.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:45 |
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Basticle posted:Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show? Origami Dali posted:The fireman's the dreamer. Everything on the screen in his theatre is literally inside his mind. When he gives birth to Laura's seed, it literally floats up out of his head as a physically manifested idea (read up on Lynch talking about ideas "bubbling up to the surface" to catch, like fish), and is then reinserted back into his dream via the contraption on the ceiling. When bad Coop enters the theatre, he again becomes an idea, caged by the fireman, who can control him and put him wherever he wants in his dream. Meanwhile, Major Brigg's head is in the theatre, now an idea removed from the dream. Think of it as quasi-lucid dreaming. The fireman can't completely control his dreams, they have a life of their own just like our dreams. But from his theatre, he can lucidly watch it and insert things into the dream if it gets out of hand, such as the atomic bomb birthing evil. What we think of as reality in the show, whether it's og Twin Peaks reality, or Odessa reality, is all just the dream of the fireman. It doesn't mean it isn't real, in the way that our dreams aren't real. It just means that the universe and reality as we know it was created by the mind of the fireman, who is essentially as close to a God as we can expect.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:55 |
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I think characters like Red and Audrey and Steven are still very important to the show, in a tone sense rather than narrative. They help contribute to the general feeling of unease and decay that has consumed Twin Peaks in the years after Laura's death.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:56 |
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Low Desert Punk posted:I think characters like Red and Audrey and Steven are still very important to the show, in a tone sense rather than narrative. They help contribute to the general feeling of unease and decay that has consumed Twin Peaks in the years after Laura's death. This is how I feel as well. They also contribute through their relationships with characters we care about already.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:03 |
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Origami Dali posted:Her whisper to Coop was "we live inside a dream". That actually makes so much sense, but I dunno about the Fireman being in the dreamer role. His name evokes a very different role, to me.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:05 |
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Lord Krangdar posted:That actually makes so much sense, but I dunno about the Fireman being in the dreamer role. His name evokes a very different role, to me. Think back to what Hawk said when reading the map. "This is a fire symbol, but the type of fire is more like modern day electricity". We know that "fire walk with me" allows people to manipulate the dream via electricity. In fact, the dream itself is electric. Not electricity from a power line, but the electrical activity of the fireman's brain (represented best by the new arm, which is a model of brain and nervous system). What are dreams but electrical brain activity? So the name makes sense if we think of the "fireman" as "the man who creates fire/electricity", ie the man whose mind creates the dream.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:19 |
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Totally on board with The Fireman being the dreamer. I actually kinda forgot that the Laura orb came directly from his head. That's a pretty big indicator. That overlayed Cooper face saying "We live inside a dream" is really disturbing to me. That whole scene is really disturbing to me now actually, maybe just because of the anticipation of the next episode.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:31 |
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Guys check this: the new coop tulpa is made woth two strands of hair. I dont think it was the tulpa that went back to vegas.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:35 |
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The Secret History of Twin Peaks and The Return are both littered with inconsistencies that can only be rectified by the existence of alternate realities and/or time fuckery. Lynch & Frost have been beating us over the head with the idea that there are multiple versions of reality playing out. I prefer to believe that there is a reality where Cooper saved Laura, Bob and Mother were destroyed, all loose ends were tied up, and the giant got to go lay with his wife for a change. Also, Tammy never happened. The End.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:42 |
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Low Desert Punk posted:I think characters like Red and Audrey and Steven are still very important to the show, in a tone sense rather than narrative. They help contribute to the general feeling of unease and decay that has consumed Twin Peaks in the years after Laura's death. I've seen this idea before and I still don't get any sense that the town is worse off overall. Drug muling, underage prostitutes, murder, etc. What's so bad about the current crop compared to the old one?
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:42 |
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Regarde Aduck posted:What is it with people and just writing everything off as meaningless when they hear the word "dream". We have no idea what dreaming entails in this context. Maybe ALL universes are dreams. Maybe it just means how one percieves their reality. Maybe one of the cast is the dreamer but that doesn't make their reality, or the inhabitants, any less "real". You're free to speculate but don't just write fanfiction and then get angry at it. I've always thought there were very low key Lovecraftian elements to the show, in particular dress and nightmares being real places that you can go.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:45 |
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Why cookie Rocket posted:I've seen this idea before and I still don't get any sense that the town is worse off overall. Drug muling, underage prostitutes, murder, etc. What's so bad about the current crop compared to the old one?
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:47 |
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I like how the Vegas FBI director screams at Wilson the same way Biff screams at George McFly in Back to the Future (another time travel story), although that probably wasn't intentional.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:52 |
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Basticle posted:I'm still catching up with the thread (holy poo poo like 30 pages) but this: There aren't really any singular scenes that show off his range, which is a shame, but I'd guess the hospital scene with Cooper waking up is probably the moment most people are going to remember.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:08 |
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My interpretation is that there is more story to tell. Just as there was a season 3 that could be told after season 2 (dale escaping the black lodge, returning to twin peaks, stopping his doppleganger, defeating bob, etc...) there is a Season 4 that could be told after Season 3 (escaping the odessa tx reality, saving laura, defeating judy). Twin peaks has been about chasing the mystery and never about solving it. It's the desire to want to know more and to decipher what is happening is what makes Twin Peaks so fun. I'm glad dale wasn't given an easy out to ride into a sunset and his hubris to change time itself is met with an even greater challenge. If you wanted the happy ending, that's episode 17 (tulpa dale going back to Janey-E and sonny jim)... but the in the real twin peaks, episode 18, the real dale is trapped in the Odessa hell dimension created by Judy. Write it down in your diary. G-III fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Sep 6, 2017 |
# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:28 |
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the more i think about it the more i think ending audrey's story where it did is super ballsy and it kind of kicks rear end
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:30 |
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Random thought. The dead dude on the couch very intentionally looks like Bob. Is the Implication here that Carrie Page killed him because her sub conscious remembered Bob and he reminded her of him?
eSporks fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Sep 6, 2017 |
# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:38 |
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eSporks posted:Random thought. The dead dude on the couch very intentionally looks like Bob. Is the Implication here that Carrie Page killed him because he sub conscious remembered Bob and he reminded her of him? In terms of the psychology of trauma it would be consistent for her to continually seek out men like her father and/or BOB and continually wind up in destructive relationships with them, which was the sense that I got. She was caught in a cycle of suffering based on what happened to her. She knows about the cycle, knows it's keeping her from settling down and having a real life, but she can't do anything about it. This isn't exactly an uncommon story, the only uncommon part would be the literal actual rotting corpse in the room she's abandoning, which speaks volumes about the horror that Carrie/Laura is used to repressing and ignoring in her life on a regular basis. I don't really think there's any other way to read Carrie but as a victim of trauma. That marks her behavior and initial gruffness towards Cooper, too.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:47 |
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So what was up with that box in Buenos Aires?
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:01 |
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I hope that whenever someone in this tread mentions "Is it future, or is it past?" reads that aloud in MIKE's backward voice.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:04 |
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el oso posted:So what was up with that box in Buenos Aires?
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:18 |
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I honestly thing that Lynch went with intuition and wrote whatever felt "right" so there is no answer to questions like that "what was that box" because he didn't think about it.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:30 |
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Life is simply unfair
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:36 |
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Alan_Shore posted:I honestly thing that Lynch went with intuition and wrote whatever felt "right" so there is no answer to questions like that "what was that box" because he didn't think about it. That's sort of my feeling, too. And as much as I feel like the parts didn't really coalesce, I have developed this sense of existential dread about it so my oh my was it successful. Cosmic horror is normally comedic. It's inherently absurd and I find it funny. Normally. Here, to me, Lynch actually pulled it off. Never worked before. Now that it's had time to sink, this season was loving great. I hope we get an S4 in one form or another.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:40 |
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kaworu posted:In terms of the psychology of trauma it would be consistent for her to continually seek out men like her father and/or BOB and continually wind up in destructive relationships with them, which was the sense that I got. She was caught in a cycle of suffering based on what happened to her. She knows about the cycle, knows it's keeping her from settling down and having a real life, but she can't do anything about it. This isn't exactly an uncommon story, the only uncommon part would be the literal actual rotting corpse in the room she's abandoning, which speaks volumes about the horror that Carrie/Laura is used to repressing and ignoring in her life on a regular basis. drat fine post
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:46 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 06:16 |
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I cannot overstate how much I HATED the ending. It's pretty much retroactively ruined the entire season for me since there's so much that was never explained at all and it ended on a bunch of cliffhangers AGAIN. My opinion will change if it turns out to be a setup for another season, but that seems extremely unlikely. Eighteen hours ending with zero payoff whatsoever. What a loving kick in the nuts.
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# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:54 |