Twin Peaks: We are like the poster who posts & then lives inside the post.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Twin Peaks: We are like the poster who posts & then lives inside the post.

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runaway dog: Dec 11, 2005; I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

I saw it as laura realized that she didnt know what year it was either because they're both stuck in some dead reality ala langoliers.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:12

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# ? May 28, 2024 01:50

yea ok: Jul 27, 2006

moist turtleneck posted:

https://i.imgur.com/jdeNDRh.gifv

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:13

Murderist: Aug 30, 2013

The Gif must be quoted at the top of every page forever and ever amen.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:16

Weird BIAS: Jul 5, 2007; so... guess that's it, huh? just... don't say i didn't warn you.

Booper Cooper Dooper.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:18

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

It's kind of insane that we only really understand who's going to defeat Bob (one of the main villains of the series) for 4 episodes out of 48+the movie.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:20

Egbert Souse: Nov 6, 2008

Aergo posted:

Well, that has to be where the name Madeline Ferguson comes from! I didn't know that reference.

Also, Scotty's sort-of girlfriend in the film is named Margaret Wood.

Margaret is the Log Lady's name.

Maybe Lynch is trying to say we need to look at the show's influences for the key? Cooper realizes who he is when he sees Gordon Cole mentioned in a clip from Sunset Blvd., which is another one of Lynch's favorite movies.

Not directly related, but apparently Lynch loves The Shining... which is kind of neat considering Kubrick was heavily inspired by Eraserhead for that film.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:37

Origami Dali: Jan 7, 2005; Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

I'm sure Judy can just puke out another bob

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:42

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Origami Dali posted:

I'm sure Judy can just puke out another bob

"Maybe that's all Bob is. The evil that men do. Maybe it doesn't matter what we call it."

Evil obviously still exists in the Odessa dimension, so even if it isn't taking the same form it did in Twin Peaks, Bob still exists.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 02:59

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Shibawanko posted:

I mean I get it I think. Richard dreamt the whole thing up and the "white lodge" is his dream's projector room inside of his brain. The nuke from ep 8 is a dreamlike distorted image of ejaculation, signifying unsatisfying sex with someone he doesn't love from which the bad karma spirit BOB was born in a spermlike cloud. BOB was Cooper's self-image. Laura was a fantasy of an innocent victim for him to save from his own guilt, and at the same time a reminder of his guilt. I guess Lynch felt Cooper was too good to be true. It's like the silly Eddie Vedder song 2 episodes ago, about who you could have been had you done things differently, but you are now running out of time to change. The last part is where the dream oddly spills back into reality, because your fantasies structure your real life, like the Mulholland Drive scary face.

But I don't like it because of how smarmy it is.

What is it with people and just writing everything off as meaningless when they hear the word "dream". We have no idea what dreaming entails in this context. Maybe ALL universes are dreams. Maybe it just means how one percieves their reality. Maybe one of the cast is the dreamer but that doesn't make their reality, or the inhabitants, any less "real". You're free to speculate but don't just write fanfiction and then get angry at it.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:18

Basticle: Sep 12, 2011

I'm still catching up with the thread (holy poo poo like 30 pages) but this:

Little Mac posted:

Theory and analysis, long and meandering so feel free to skip:

In Part 2, the Arm-tree discusses the number 253 with Cooper, along with the phrase "time and time again." In Sheriff Truman's office, time begins to get wonky and the clock moves back and forth. Time is stuck at exactly 2:53. This is where the Arm is going to call Cooper back for the next phase of their plan: to save Laura Palmer, because to quote the Log Lady in both Season 3 and the Bravo introduction to the pilot: "Laura is the One." What this means is ambiguous, but she seems to be the antithesis to Judy.

From there the Lodge pulls away those with knowledge of just what the hell is going on: Coop and Diane who had been trapped living inside the White Lodge as Naido, and Cooper calls for Gordon at the last moment taking him, too. For those in the Sheriff station, time is frozen at 2:53. Cooper is taken to yet another back entrance to the Lodges - the Great Northern basement - and uses his own room key to open it (obviously this makes no sense - perhaps the key was attuned to the Lodges since he took it with him inside? Lodge logic is illogical). From there things are pretty plain: the plan of Cooper and Mike is to time-travel via Jeffries, the only human who has time-travelled in the series thus far, using the non-linearity of the Lodges, and save Laura Palmer from her fate.

Cooper succeeds in saving Laura's life. When she is whisked away at the end of Part 17, she is taken by the White Lodge (which is obviously the "home" where the Cooper in the FWWM timeline is taking her to, not the Palmer household) to a new, safer life - as Carrie Page in Odessa, TX. The White Lodge entrance is at Jack Rabbit's Palace and Odessa, TX is home to the world's largest jackrabbit. Laura's memories are perhaps Dougie'd and she lives her new life there.

Twin Peaks the Series is not entirely undone. There is still a Missing Persons case for Cooper to investigate in the town. BOB is still there for them to battle. Coop would still follow Annie into Glastonbury Grove. Nothing major is undone except Laura's murder. We can assume FWWM ends with Leland going to the Cabin, finding only Ronette, and becoming increasingly hostile. It's possible he even kills Ronette there, but the disappearance of the troubled prom queen is just as likely to set off the town just as much as her murder.

From Laura's disappearance Coop is pulled into his own past, but things in the Red Room are different. The Arm-tree echoes Audrey's lines in her dreamreality ("Is it the story of the little girl who lived down the lane? Is it?"), hinting that Audrey might have been deposited there - perhaps the nurse who took Annie's owl ring transferred it to Audrey somehow? Coop's reaction to Dead-Laura's whispering is different, too: In episode 2 it was a pained grunt but now it's a "huh" of confusion. The Red Room Cooper we see in Part 18 is learning all of this for the first time, but now knows what he has to do. This is solidified by Leland's urging him to "find Laura," which is the key to everything. Note: This is not the Doppelganger Leland but the real one without BOB corruption - Doppelgangers have grey eyes in the Lodge, as seen in the Season 2 finale and with DoppelCoop in the beginning of Part 18.

Part 2's version of all of this is different. After meeting with the Arm-Tree Cooper emerges into a Red Room hallway with some weird shifting effects. He then heads for a curtain but is blocked and has to turn back. In Part 2 Cooper finds Leland as well but enters FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROOM. In Part 18, instead of being blocked he uses whatever Lodge power/knowledge he has and opens the entrance to Glastonbury, the same way he came in. There Diane is waiting for him, but it is 25 years later in the Laura-dead timeline. Cooper has to awaken Laura, but she's not alive here.

Here Cooper and Diane retain the knowledge, despite the fact that they're now probably somewhere around Part 1 of Season 3 time-wise, hence why they question their identities (having been replaced by Doppelgangers and Tulpas respectively). Thanks to Cooper's intuitive understanding of the Fireman's cryptic clues, he knows how to get to the reality where he saved Laura - driving to the point where he and Diane cross realities, though there is danger they may lose themselves. Cooper can feel the electricity there and even sees another symbol of Judy - the electric tower. He looks at his watch (is it 2:53?) and steadies himself. I'm not sure exactly where they are geographically at this point - 430 miles away from Twin Peaks, it would seem. They drive through the gate and come out in darkness, changed.

Their new selves are Richard and Linda, new lives not unlike Dougie for Coop before. They are both in danger here of losing their true personalities in this world where Laura survived. They pull up to a motel (the same one where Jeffries stays?) and Diane sees her true self reaching out. The true Diane disappears. They sleep together in the hotel room, Cooper obviously different as well. During their lovemaking, Diane covers Cooper's face as she is subsumed by her new self - she no longer recognizes Richard, because he's still mostly Cooper. Horrified, Linda leaves in the middle of the night.

Cooper awakens, confused, but recalls the Fireman's message vaguely when he reads the note. He emerges from the room into a different parking lot, now in Odessa, and in fact with a different car (Richard's?), though he pauses - he's a bit confused by the situation, but resigns himself to the mission: Find Laura.

He wanders to Judy's, assuming he's been put in the right place and right time just like the Fireman put DoppelCoop in the right place and right time to get taken out by Lucy and Freddie. Coop expects to find Laura here but does not and goes on a hunch that Alive-Laura is still connected to Judy's. His temperament is changed by becoming Richard - he is more harsh, but still has an unchecked sense of what is good. Dale Cooper is a cowboy hero and he saves a random waitress on the way to finding Laura.

At Alive-Laura's house he sees the pole and hears electricity, a sign that he's on the right track. Here he meets Carrie Page, the Dougie Jones to her Laura Palmer - notable, however, is that Kyle MacLachlan is never credited as Dougie Jones, but Sheryl Lee receives a credit for both Laura AND Carrie. At the front door Carrie has no knowledge of Laura but does seem to bristle at the mention of Sarah Palmer (most certainly Judy/the Jumping Man and I would also assume most certainly the girl who ate the Frogroach). Coop wants to bring Laura to Sarah for unexplained reasons - possibly to destroy Judy.

In Carrie's house, Coop finds a few odd things: a corpse with what looks to be a BOB orb emerging from its stomach, a white horse in front of a blue plate, and white paint next to an assault rifle. It would appear that Carrie is still being attacked by agents of Judy even in this reality, though she can kill them. She is attempting to hide her self-defense murder by painting over the scene of the crime, though it's been awhile as the corpse is attracting flies. The horse is decor, but looks like a pupil: the horse is the white of the eyes. Carrie is being watched.

Carrie and Cooper travel to Twin Peaks where Carrie falls asleep and Laura peeks through ("In those days I was too young to know any better"). They arrive at their destination but are met by Lodge Spirits (now Tremond, before Chalfont) at the door to the Palmer Household. It's unclear whether Cooper knows the Chalfont/Tremond/lodge connection, but he definitely recalls the name Chalfont from Carl Rodd's explanation of the trailer in FWWM. The fact that Alice Tremond and her husband seem to be awake when it's obviously early morning (the RR Diner is closed) should be hint that they're a front.

Dejectedly Cooper leaves with Carrie, but he reconsiders. He hears a bit of radio static, stumbles a bit, and asks "What year is this?" It's the "future", not the "past," though Cooper isn't so sure. Carrie, meanwhile, is also affected by this and hears Sarah/Judy's call. Here Laura awakens "100%" inside Carrie, now with her memories of the horrors she suffered in her previous life - all of which, save for her final murder, still occurred. She screams and, recognizing this, the Palmer house - controlled by Judy and the Black Lodge - shuts off. We're left with the final mystery of just what Dead-Laura whispered to Coop.

tl;dr: Cooper created a new timeline, but everything that happened happened. The past, however, dictates the future and Cooper exists now separate from himself (two Coopers) in the "future" of Season 3. This is definitely left open for a Season 4, where Cooper/Laura must confront Judy.

Is a very good post and definitely makes Episode 18 make a bit more sense. I stand by my previous statement that it pissed me off because there are so many non-cooper plot threads that arent ever mentioned again. It pisses me off that Audry, Becky/Jonathon, Shelly/Red etc. may as well not even have been in the loving show because their scenes have no context or resolution.

Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show?

Basticle fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:20

DOPE FIEND KILLA G: Jun 4, 2011

I think the secret probably lies in the scene with the French woman

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:25

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Little Mac posted:

Theory and analysis, long and meandering so feel free to skip:

In Part 2, the Arm-tree discusses the number 253 with Cooper, along with the phrase "time and time again." In Sheriff Truman's office, time begins to get wonky and the clock moves back and forth. Time is stuck at exactly 2:53. This is where the Arm is going to call Cooper back for the next phase of their plan: to save Laura Palmer, because to quote the Log Lady in both Season 3 and the Bravo introduction to the pilot: "Laura is the One." What this means is ambiguous, but she seems to be the antithesis to Judy.

From there the Lodge pulls away those with knowledge of just what the hell is going on: Coop and Diane who had been trapped living inside the White Lodge as Naido, and Cooper calls for Gordon at the last moment taking him, too. For those in the Sheriff station, time is frozen at 2:53. Cooper is taken to yet another back entrance to the Lodges - the Great Northern basement - and uses his own room key to open it (obviously this makes no sense - perhaps the key was attuned to the Lodges since he took it with him inside? Lodge logic is illogical). From there things are pretty plain: the plan of Cooper and Mike is to time-travel via Jeffries, the only human who has time-travelled in the series thus far, using the non-linearity of the Lodges, and save Laura Palmer from her fate.

Cooper succeeds in saving Laura's life. When she is whisked away at the end of Part 17, she is taken by the White Lodge (which is obviously the "home" where the Cooper in the FWWM timeline is taking her to, not the Palmer household) to a new, safer life - as Carrie Page in Odessa, TX. The White Lodge entrance is at Jack Rabbit's Palace and Odessa, TX is home to the world's largest jackrabbit. Laura's memories are perhaps Dougie'd and she lives her new life there.

Twin Peaks the Series is not entirely undone. There is still a Missing Persons case for Cooper to investigate in the town. BOB is still there for them to battle. Coop would still follow Annie into Glastonbury Grove. Nothing major is undone except Laura's murder. We can assume FWWM ends with Leland going to the Cabin, finding only Ronette, and becoming increasingly hostile. It's possible he even kills Ronette there, but the disappearance of the troubled prom queen is just as likely to set off the town just as much as her murder.

From Laura's disappearance Coop is pulled into his own past, but things in the Red Room are different. The Arm-tree echoes Audrey's lines in her dreamreality ("Is it the story of the little girl who lived down the lane? Is it?"), hinting that Audrey might have been deposited there - perhaps the nurse who took Annie's owl ring transferred it to Audrey somehow? Coop's reaction to Dead-Laura's whispering is different, too: In episode 2 it was a pained grunt but now it's a "huh" of confusion. The Red Room Cooper we see in Part 18 is learning all of this for the first time, but now knows what he has to do. This is solidified by Leland's urging him to "find Laura," which is the key to everything. Note: This is not the Doppelganger Leland but the real one without BOB corruption - Doppelgangers have grey eyes in the Lodge, as seen in the Season 2 finale and with DoppelCoop in the beginning of Part 18.

Part 2's version of all of this is different. After meeting with the Arm-Tree Cooper emerges into a Red Room hallway with some weird shifting effects. He then heads for a curtain but is blocked and has to turn back. In Part 2 Cooper finds Leland as well but enters FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROOM. In Part 18, instead of being blocked he uses whatever Lodge power/knowledge he has and opens the entrance to Glastonbury, the same way he came in. There Diane is waiting for him, but it is 25 years later in the Laura-dead timeline. Cooper has to awaken Laura, but she's not alive here.

Here Cooper and Diane retain the knowledge, despite the fact that they're now probably somewhere around Part 1 of Season 3 time-wise, hence why they question their identities (having been replaced by Doppelgangers and Tulpas respectively). Thanks to Cooper's intuitive understanding of the Fireman's cryptic clues, he knows how to get to the reality where he saved Laura - driving to the point where he and Diane cross realities, though there is danger they may lose themselves. Cooper can feel the electricity there and even sees another symbol of Judy - the electric tower. He looks at his watch (is it 2:53?) and steadies himself. I'm not sure exactly where they are geographically at this point - 430 miles away from Twin Peaks, it would seem. They drive through the gate and come out in darkness, changed.

Their new selves are Richard and Linda, new lives not unlike Dougie for Coop before. They are both in danger here of losing their true personalities in this world where Laura survived. They pull up to a motel (the same one where Jeffries stays?) and Diane sees her true self reaching out. The true Diane disappears. They sleep together in the hotel room, Cooper obviously different as well. During their lovemaking, Diane covers Cooper's face as she is subsumed by her new self - she no longer recognizes Richard, because he's still mostly Cooper. Horrified, Linda leaves in the middle of the night.

Cooper awakens, confused, but recalls the Fireman's message vaguely when he reads the note. He emerges from the room into a different parking lot, now in Odessa, and in fact with a different car (Richard's?), though he pauses - he's a bit confused by the situation, but resigns himself to the mission: Find Laura.

He wanders to Judy's, assuming he's been put in the right place and right time just like the Fireman put DoppelCoop in the right place and right time to get taken out by Lucy and Freddie. Coop expects to find Laura here but does not and goes on a hunch that Alive-Laura is still connected to Judy's. His temperament is changed by becoming Richard - he is more harsh, but still has an unchecked sense of what is good. Dale Cooper is a cowboy hero and he saves a random waitress on the way to finding Laura.

At Alive-Laura's house he sees the pole and hears electricity, a sign that he's on the right track. Here he meets Carrie Page, the Dougie Jones to her Laura Palmer - notable, however, is that Kyle MacLachlan is never credited as Dougie Jones, but Sheryl Lee receives a credit for both Laura AND Carrie. At the front door Carrie has no knowledge of Laura but does seem to bristle at the mention of Sarah Palmer (most certainly Judy/the Jumping Man and I would also assume most certainly the girl who ate the Frogroach). Coop wants to bring Laura to Sarah for unexplained reasons - possibly to destroy Judy.

In Carrie's house, Coop finds a few odd things: a corpse with what looks to be a BOB orb emerging from its stomach, a white horse in front of a blue plate, and white paint next to an assault rifle. It would appear that Carrie is still being attacked by agents of Judy even in this reality, though she can kill them. She is attempting to hide her self-defense murder by painting over the scene of the crime, though it's been awhile as the corpse is attracting flies. The horse is decor, but looks like a pupil: the horse is the white of the eyes. Carrie is being watched.

Carrie and Cooper travel to Twin Peaks where Carrie falls asleep and Laura peeks through ("In those days I was too young to know any better"). They arrive at their destination but are met by Lodge Spirits (now Tremond, before Chalfont) at the door to the Palmer Household. It's unclear whether Cooper knows the Chalfont/Tremond/lodge connection, but he definitely recalls the name Chalfont from Carl Rodd's explanation of the trailer in FWWM. The fact that Alice Tremond and her husband seem to be awake when it's obviously early morning (the RR Diner is closed) should be hint that they're a front.

Dejectedly Cooper leaves with Carrie, but he reconsiders. He hears a bit of radio static, stumbles a bit, and asks "What year is this?" It's the "future", not the "past," though Cooper isn't so sure. Carrie, meanwhile, is also affected by this and hears Sarah/Judy's call. Here Laura awakens "100%" inside Carrie, now with her memories of the horrors she suffered in her previous life - all of which, save for her final murder, still occurred. She screams and, recognizing this, the Palmer house - controlled by Judy and the Black Lodge - shuts off. We're left with the final mystery of just what Dead-Laura whispered to Coop.

tl;dr: Cooper created a new timeline, but everything that happened happened. The past, however, dictates the future and Cooper exists now separate from himself (two Coopers) in the "future" of Season 3. This is definitely left open for a Season 4, where Cooper/Laura must confront Judy.

I 100% approve of this and it makes the finale seem more thoroughly resolved.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:35

n4: Jul 26, 2001; Poor Chu-Chu : (

The window cleaner was Judy

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:37

Origami Dali: Jan 7, 2005; Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

The fireman's the dreamer. Everything on the screen in his theatre is literally inside his mind. When he gives birth to Laura's seed, it literally floats up out of his head as a physically manifested idea (read up on Lynch talking about ideas "bubbling up to the surface" to catch, like fish), and is then reinserted back into his dream via the contraption on the ceiling. When bad Coop enters the theatre, he again becomes an idea, caged by the fireman, who can control him and put him wherever he wants in his dream. Meanwhile, Major Brigg's head is in the theatre, now an idea removed from the dream. Think of it as quasi-lucid dreaming. The fireman can't completely control his dreams, they have a life of their own just like our dreams. But from his theatre, he can lucidly watch it and insert things into the dream if it gets out of hand, such as the atomic bomb birthing evil. What we think of as reality in the show, whether it's og Twin Peaks reality, or Odessa reality, is all just the dream of the fireman. It doesn't mean it isn't real, in the way that our dreams aren't real. It just means that the universe and reality as we know it was created by the mind of the fireman, who is essentially as close to a God as we can expect.

To be able to travel to lodges is like to go behind the scenes of the inner working of the dream without the fireman, and willingly manipulate it. The rules break down, time can shift, identities can change, because you've basically hacked the system. The chant "fire walk with me" is just a line of code that gives you access to the system (like bad Coop somehow hacking the entire prison system with a magic box and a rotary phone).

This is why Coop is so calm before he goes off to save Laura. He's aware of what reality is (his overlaid face during the scene tells us he knows), because Laura told him herself. Her whisper to Coop was "we live inside a dream".

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:41

oneforthevine: Sep 25, 2015

[quote="Basticle" post=""476108158"]

Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show?
[/quote]

Gotta be "Call for Help" - we get Dale in the mauve zone, the Doppelg�nger driving, Dougie 1.0 with Jade, and Dale Dougie at the casino. It's the only one I can think of that really shows off the whole set of characters.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:45

eSporks: Jun 10, 2011

Basticle posted:

Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show?

Definitely episode 12.

Origami Dali posted:

The fireman's the dreamer. Everything on the screen in his theatre is literally inside his mind. When he gives birth to Laura's seed, it literally floats up out of his head as a physically manifested idea (read up on Lynch talking about ideas "bubbling up to the surface" to catch, like fish), and is then reinserted back into his dream via the contraption on the ceiling. When bad Coop enters the theatre, he again becomes an idea, caged by the fireman, who can control him and put him wherever he wants in his dream. Meanwhile, Major Brigg's head is in the theatre, now an idea removed from the dream. Think of it as quasi-lucid dreaming. The fireman can't completely control his dreams, they have a life of their own just like our dreams. But from his theatre, he can lucidly watch it and insert things into the dream if it gets out of hand, such as the atomic bomb birthing evil. What we think of as reality in the show, whether it's og Twin Peaks reality, or Odessa reality, is all just the dream of the fireman. It doesn't mean it isn't real, in the way that our dreams aren't real. It just means that the universe and reality as we know it was created by the mind of the fireman, who is essentially as close to a God as we can expect.

I quite like this. Its the only explaination that fits with the Descarte reading of "Whos is the dreamer?". The Fireman is a omniscient being that sees all.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:55

Low Desert Punk: Jul 4, 2012; i have absolutely no fucking money

I think characters like Red and Audrey and Steven are still very important to the show, in a tone sense rather than narrative. They help contribute to the general feeling of unease and decay that has consumed Twin Peaks in the years after Laura's death.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 03:56

TheMaestroso: Nov 4, 2014; I must know your secrets.

Low Desert Punk posted:

I think characters like Red and Audrey and Steven are still very important to the show, in a tone sense rather than narrative. They help contribute to the general feeling of unease and decay that has consumed Twin Peaks in the years after Laura's death.

This is how I feel as well. They also contribute through their relationships with characters we care about already.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:03

Lord Krangdar: Oct 24, 2007; These are the secrets of death we teach.

Origami Dali posted:

Her whisper to Coop was "we live inside a dream".

That actually makes so much sense, but I dunno about the Fireman being in the dreamer role. His name evokes a very different role, to me.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:05

Origami Dali: Jan 7, 2005; Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

Lord Krangdar posted:

That actually makes so much sense, but I dunno about the Fireman being in the dreamer role. His name evokes a very different role, to me.

Think back to what Hawk said when reading the map. "This is a fire symbol, but the type of fire is more like modern day electricity". We know that "fire walk with me" allows people to manipulate the dream via electricity. In fact, the dream itself is electric. Not electricity from a power line, but the electrical activity of the fireman's brain (represented best by the new arm, which is a model of brain and nervous system). What are dreams but electrical brain activity? So the name makes sense if we think of the "fireman" as "the man who creates fire/electricity", ie the man whose mind creates the dream.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:19

Cromulent: Dec 22, 2002; People are under a lot of stress, Bradley.

Totally on board with The Fireman being the dreamer. I actually kinda forgot that the Laura orb came directly from his head. That's a pretty big indicator.

That overlayed Cooper face saying "We live inside a dream" is really disturbing to me. That whole scene is really disturbing to me now actually, maybe just because of the anticipation of the next episode.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:31

terminal chillness: Oct 16, 2008; This baby is off the charts

Guys check this: the new coop tulpa is made woth two strands of hair. I dont think it was the tulpa that went back to vegas.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:35

Apple Craft: Mar 8, 2012; Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray

The Secret History of Twin Peaks and The Return are both littered with inconsistencies that can only be rectified by the existence of alternate realities and/or time fuckery. Lynch & Frost have been beating us over the head with the idea that there are multiple versions of reality playing out.

I prefer to believe that there is a reality where Cooper saved Laura, Bob and Mother were destroyed, all loose ends were tied up, and the giant got to go lay with his wife for a change. Also, Tammy never happened. The End.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:42

Why cookie Rocket: Dec 2, 2003; Lemme tell ya 'bout your blood bamboo kid.
It ain't Coca-Cola, it's rice.

Low Desert Punk posted:

I think characters like Red and Audrey and Steven are still very important to the show, in a tone sense rather than narrative. They help contribute to the general feeling of unease and decay that has consumed Twin Peaks in the years after Laura's death.

I've seen this idea before and I still don't get any sense that the town is worse off overall. Drug muling, underage prostitutes, murder, etc. What's so bad about the current crop compared to the old one?

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:42

JBP: Feb 16, 2017; You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

Regarde Aduck posted:

What is it with people and just writing everything off as meaningless when they hear the word "dream". We have no idea what dreaming entails in this context. Maybe ALL universes are dreams. Maybe it just means how one percieves their reality. Maybe one of the cast is the dreamer but that doesn't make their reality, or the inhabitants, any less "real". You're free to speculate but don't just write fanfiction and then get angry at it.

I've always thought there were very low key Lovecraftian elements to the show, in particular dress and nightmares being real places that you can go.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:45

Cromulent: Dec 22, 2002; People are under a lot of stress, Bradley.

Why cookie Rocket posted:

I've seen this idea before and I still don't get any sense that the town is worse off overall. Drug muling, underage prostitutes, murder, etc. What's so bad about the current crop compared to the old one?

The current drug mule makes currency appear in your mouth. I believe he also has a problem with his liver.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:47

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

I like how the Vegas FBI director screams at Wilson the same way Biff screams at George McFly in Back to the Future (another time travel story), although that probably wasn't intentional.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 04:52

Grizzled Patriarch: Mar 27, 2014; These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.

Basticle posted:

I'm still catching up with the thread (holy poo poo like 30 pages) but this:

Is a very good post and definitely makes Episode 18 make a bit more sense. I stand by my previous statement that it pissed me off because there are so many non-cooper plot threads that arent ever mentioned again. It pisses me off that Audry, Becky/Jonathon, Shelly/Red etc. may as well not even have been in the loving show because their scenes have no context or resolution.

Here's a question for you all. When they inevitably submit this for the Emmy's, what episode (they have to pick one) would they submit for Kyle MacLachlan's acting performance? and What scene would you use as a Clip for the awards show?

There aren't really any singular scenes that show off his range, which is a shame, but I'd guess the hospital scene with Cooper waking up is probably the moment most people are going to remember.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:08

G-III: Mar 4, 2001

My interpretation is that there is more story to tell.

Just as there was a season 3 that could be told after season 2 (dale escaping the black lodge, returning to twin peaks, stopping his doppleganger, defeating bob, etc...) there is a Season 4 that could be told after Season 3 (escaping the odessa tx reality, saving laura, defeating judy).

Twin peaks has been about chasing the mystery and never about solving it. It's the desire to want to know more and to decipher what is happening is what makes Twin Peaks so fun. I'm glad dale wasn't given an easy out to ride into a sunset and his hubris to change time itself is met with an even greater challenge. If you wanted the happy ending, that's episode 17 (tulpa dale going back to Janey-E and sonny jim)... but the in the real twin peaks, episode 18, the real dale is trapped in the Odessa hell dimension created by Judy. Write it down in your diary.

G-III fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:28

romanowski: Nov 10, 2012

the more i think about it the more i think ending audrey's story where it did is super ballsy and it kind of kicks rear end

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:30

eSporks: Jun 10, 2011

Random thought. The dead dude on the couch very intentionally looks like Bob. Is the Implication here that Carrie Page killed him because her sub conscious remembered Bob and he reminded her of him?

eSporks fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Sep 6, 2017

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:38

kaworu: Jul 23, 2004

eSporks posted:

Random thought. The dead dude on the couch very intentionally looks like Bob. Is the Implication here that Carrie Page killed him because he sub conscious remembered Bob and he reminded her of him?

In terms of the psychology of trauma it would be consistent for her to continually seek out men like her father and/or BOB and continually wind up in destructive relationships with them, which was the sense that I got. She was caught in a cycle of suffering based on what happened to her. She knows about the cycle, knows it's keeping her from settling down and having a real life, but she can't do anything about it. This isn't exactly an uncommon story, the only uncommon part would be the literal actual rotting corpse in the room she's abandoning, which speaks volumes about the horror that Carrie/Laura is used to repressing and ignoring in her life on a regular basis.

I don't really think there's any other way to read Carrie but as a victim of trauma. That marks her behavior and initial gruffness towards Cooper, too.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 05:47

el oso: Feb 18, 2005; phew, for a minute there i lost myself

So what was up with that box in Buenos Aires?

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:01

el oso: Feb 18, 2005; phew, for a minute there i lost myself

I hope that whenever someone in this tread mentions "Is it future, or is it past?" reads that aloud in MIKE's backward voice.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:04

eSporks: Jun 10, 2011

el oso posted:

So what was up with that box in Buenos Aires?

After the revelations of ep18, its reminding me a lot of the box in Mullholland Drive.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:18

Alan_Shore: Dec 2, 2004

I honestly thing that Lynch went with intuition and wrote whatever felt "right" so there is no answer to questions like that "what was that box" because he didn't think about it.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:30

Cheap Diner Coffee: Aug 7, 2010; Philistine.

Life is simply unfair

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:36

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Alan_Shore posted:

I honestly thing that Lynch went with intuition and wrote whatever felt "right" so there is no answer to questions like that "what was that box" because he didn't think about it.

That's sort of my feeling, too.

And as much as I feel like the parts didn't really coalesce, I have developed this sense of existential dread about it so my oh my was it successful.

Cosmic horror is normally comedic. It's inherently absurd and I find it funny. Normally. Here, to me, Lynch actually pulled it off. Never worked before.

Now that it's had time to sink, this season was loving great. I hope we get an S4 in one form or another.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:40

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

kaworu posted:

In terms of the psychology of trauma it would be consistent for her to continually seek out men like her father and/or BOB and continually wind up in destructive relationships with them, which was the sense that I got. She was caught in a cycle of suffering based on what happened to her. She knows about the cycle, knows it's keeping her from settling down and having a real life, but she can't do anything about it. This isn't exactly an uncommon story, the only uncommon part would be the literal actual rotting corpse in the room she's abandoning, which speaks volumes about the horror that Carrie/Laura is used to repressing and ignoring in her life on a regular basis.

I don't really think there's any other way to read Carrie but as a victim of trauma. That marks her behavior and initial gruffness towards Cooper, too.

drat fine post

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:46

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# ? May 28, 2024 01:50

...!: Oct 5, 2003; I SHOULD KEEP MY DUMB MOUTH SHUT INSTEAD OF SPEWING HORSESHIT ABOUT THE ORBITAL MECHANICS OF THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT A LAGRANGE POINT IS?

I cannot overstate how much I HATED the ending. It's pretty much retroactively ruined the entire season for me since there's so much that was never explained at all and it ended on a bunch of cliffhangers AGAIN. My opinion will change if it turns out to be a setup for another season, but that seems extremely unlikely.

Eighteen hours ending with zero payoff whatsoever. What a loving kick in the nuts.

# ? Sep 6, 2017 06:54

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Twin Peaks: We are like the poster who posts & then lives inside the post.

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