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Snooze Cruise posted:4 way tie between Bernie Wiseman, Sochie, Allenby, and Jerid. I legit like Hathaway and feel bad for him.
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Sep 2, 2017 15:19
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chiasaur11 posted:It's having someone at war with you and just kind of... ignoring it. I really don't understand the Federation's behavior in ZZ. Like, even from a morally bankrupt and mostly stupid prospective, once someone's started shooting at you with no intent declared to stop, you should do something about it, yes? I think it's something like "I'm rich" nasty war "I'm still rich" nasty uprising "Still rich here" second nasty war "Wow I guess I can't not be rich! Who gives a poo poo about anything anywhere"
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Sep 2, 2017 15:51
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amigolupus posted:And how in the world did Glemy of all people got that much clout in the first place? I know there's the story of him being a stand-in for Char since Char was going to appear in CCA, but was there any in-universe explanation why they'd follow a creep like him? He's a handsome young guy with ties to Zeonic aristocracy who can be charismatic when he needs to be. The rank and file troops of the Glemy faction aren't familiar with his creeper side because they're not present when he's cloning newtype children or trying frantically to hit on enemy pilots, so they just see a young noble remnant of the Good Old Days. It's reasonable to see why Axis troops who are in it for the Zabis would be disgruntled with Haman. Haman uses Mineva to project a thin veneer of Zabi legitimacy to her own regime, but rules and commands pretty much entirely in her own name(incredibly coldly and ruthlessly, at that). Given that their final victory over the Federation seemed pretty much assured, I could see a bunch of old guard Zabi-ists going "Do we really want this lady as queen of the world forever" and looking for an alternative.
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Sep 2, 2017 23:59
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Sep 3, 2017 05:43
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Christ, even when they've basically won Zeon still found a way to screw themselves over. 
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Sep 3, 2017 06:45
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Zeon as a faction was born in political turmoil between warring families and a state figurehead who may or may not have been murdered. They were never going to be a united nation especially after the OYW crushed them. Even at the height of Haman's reign they're too fractured to hold onto any significant victory. It doesn't matter how many times some Zeon remnant rises up to challenge the federation, it is a fight they just cannot win. Their only real strategic options are throwing asteroids or trying to economically starve Earth into capitulation, but both of these tactics only serve to galvanize the Federation and force them into action. Sure, millions might die, but the federation can afford losses, Zeon can't. Even following a civil war and a neo Zeon invasion that drove the federation to the brink of collapse, they recover remarkably fast by the time of the second and third NZ wars. You'd think that Zeon would notice a pattern of bounce back following their initial gains. Feds take massive early losses, grind things to a stalemate, and then flip on their manufacturing might and drown Zeon in bodies and enough custom units to make Zimmad and Anaheim blush.
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Sep 3, 2017 07:30
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it has dawned on me after 150 episodes of this series that colonies are goofy Disneyland bullshit. I'd join an armed revolution if I had to live in Industrial Revolution Smog Land. not that it's a bad thing. it just dawned on me in Origins II going from Zeon to Loum were it's Cowboys 24/7
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Sep 3, 2017 08:45
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I think that's just Texas colony. Which is indeed a bit of a failed tourist attraction.
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Sep 3, 2017 09:08
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Arcsquad12 posted:I think that's just Texas colony. Which is indeed a bit of a failed tourist attraction. Also it's an O'Neill Cylinder. Arable land's kinda the whole point, and you need some way to get around  .
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Sep 3, 2017 10:40
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PenguinKnight posted:it has dawned on me after 150 episodes of this series that colonies are goofy Disneyland bullshit. I'd join an armed revolution if I had to live in Industrial Revolution Smog Land. Most of the colonies are pretty normal, nice places, like Munzo(the Zeon city), Amuro's hometown on Side 7, Green Noa from Zeta, etc. There's a few lovely industrial colonies like Palau and some gimmick colonies like Texas Colony(which was originally meant to be a ranch-style tourist attraction before that fell through and it was converted to a farm colony), but billions of people live in space in Gundam and they don't all live in the place where Darth Vader fought Luke in the Empire Strikes Back.
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Sep 3, 2017 11:27
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Next Battlogue this Friday
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Sep 6, 2017 01:56
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since it's being put up on gundam info, i watched the first episode of Wing last night. the end to that episode is goofy as hell and great
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Sep 6, 2017 21:45
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heero tries to kill himself like 3 times and just can't do it
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Sep 6, 2017 21:48
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PenguinKnight posted:since it's being put up on gundam info, i watched the first episode of Wing last night. the end to that episode is goofy as hell and great I mean the episode basically starts with Zechs jumping out of a carrier in reentry with a ground based mobile suit to fight Heero in freefall, then wrassles the Wing and jumps out of the Leo while still probably pretty high up. Wing is intense, perhaps. Also I hope they put up the definitive version, the dub. And it's a shame the soundtrack was taken down, because Wing's soundtrack is great. chumbler fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 21:52
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The fact that zechs beats a gundam in free fall in a mobile suit that can't even fly is extremely badass, and I can't believe that it's not brought up more often
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Sep 6, 2017 21:57
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chumbler posted:
When the wing gundam transforms for the first time and "the wings of a boy who killed adolescence." starts playing, it's just a great moment.
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Sep 6, 2017 22:08
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I think the good parts of Wing go really understated. Those good parts being mostly Zechs. I have my own headcanon though too. One part is that Gundanium is really heavy for the protection it offers, which is why only the Wing and Zero can fly by having massive boosters on their back. The reason the Tallgeese is so hardcore is that it's a normal suit with this kind of Gundam sized booster on it, so it's blasting around like a Miata with an LS. When Heero duels it in the Heavyarms, Zechs runs circles around him and can still fly off to interdict the incoming doods. That fight (Episode 16, The Sorrowful Battle) is another good use of "The Wings of a Boy that Killed Adolescence". Zechs is the real main character of Wing. 
Ranzear fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 22:12
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Manatee Cannon posted:heero tries to kill himself like 3 times and just can't do it I think it's kind of a neat thing! He repeatedly tries to either actively or passively kill himself in the first 3rd of the series and generally doesn't care much about living. Then you get to the end of the series and Heero's "I will survive" mantra in the last episode and it makes me feel just a little  Oh I also got vol.2 of the GoL yesterday! The pace kind of bounces around but I'm still all about it - inserting Wufei's sad dead wife story during his Lake Victoria bombing is the kind of thing I wish the show had done, for example. Also my girl Noin is in it and I will always be a little annoyed she didn't get some great mobile suit fight moments. Plus there's a really cute Gunpla thing at the end and I am a sucker for that. Tulalip Tulips fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 22:43
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Ranzear posted:Zechs is the real main character of Wing. The oz uniforms are some of the all time greats. They are just so loving classy.
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Sep 6, 2017 22:52
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Ranzear posted:Zechs is the real main character of Wing. He really is. The Tallgeese even fills the role that the Gundam typically fills. It's the ur-mobile suit, the super prototype that everything else is based on. It's like TWENTY years old at the start of the series but still runs circles around everything because it's not designed for mass production.
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Sep 6, 2017 23:20
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On purely aesthetic level Tallgeese is the best looking mobile suit in Wing and one of the best looking in Gundam as a whole. It's so clean and shiny.
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Sep 6, 2017 23:34
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Tallgeese is good for the same reason leos are good, they're not visually overdesigned. The only real bit of extraneous flair is Tallgeese's rad helmet. Also didn't some gundam needs work out that leos are like top tier among mass produced mobile suits across the whole franchise in terms of (made up) stats? chumbler fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 23:43
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i mostly recall that their stats are nearly identical to the original gundam's. i believe that still makes them outdated compared to the grunt suits in, say, unicorn
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Sep 7, 2017 00:00
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chumbler posted:Tallgeese is good for the same reason leos are good, they're not visually overdesigned. The only real bit of extraneous flair is Tallgeese's rad helmet. The terrible secret of the Tallgeese:  It's actually just a Leo with a cool helmet.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:04
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i love the idea that the tallgeese was the first giant robot ever made, and wasn't mass produced despite being loving Killer because piloting it is so intense that the pilot almost always loses consciousness. it's botht eh first mobile suit and one fo the strongest, because everything made after it was intentionally powered down so people who weren't gods like zechs could stand a chance at being effective in them. i was really sad when zechs went "actually, now the tallgeese isn't powerful enough for me"
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Sep 7, 2017 00:04
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At this point the highest-spec grunt units probably belong to something like Age (which mass-produced the Age units a generation behind) or 00 (GN drive equipped grunt units)
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Sep 7, 2017 00:06
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I still kinda wish that Zechs and Heero hadn't swapped Zero and Epyon with each other. It would have been a neat reversal.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:07
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ninjewtsu posted:i love the idea that the tallgeese was the first giant robot ever made, and wasn't mass produced despite being loving Killer because piloting it is so intense that the pilot almost always loses consciousness. it's botht eh first mobile suit and one fo the strongest, because everything made after it was intentionally powered down so people who weren't gods like zechs could stand a chance at being effective in them. It's simply the Law of Anime. He powered up so far that the thing that once nearly killed him was nothing. Gundam Wing is like G Gundam but vaguely more normal. I feel like re-watching Wing now. I do it once a year. That time has come. P.S. I always liked the Epyon.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:11
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ImpAtom posted:At this point the highest-spec grunt units probably belong to something like Age (which mass-produced the Age units a generation behind) or 00 (GN drive equipped grunt units) I'd say probably 00. By the end, even their mook units have access to trans-am, which would allow them to wipe the floor with grunt units from most series.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:14
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I always really liked that Wing had specialized suits too. Pisces and Cancer are pretty cool too.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:14
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Caros posted:I'd say probably 00. By the end, even their mook units have access to trans-am, which would allow them to wipe the floor with grunt units from most series. It's easy to forget because it goes down so early but pretty much all Age stuff has massive massive beam resistance, it's why they had to invent the drill beam (lol) to pierce it. If you actually go by the genuine specs of the AGE poo poo it's absolutely insane, it's just that because everything in the AGE setting is absurd and Level-5-y they all feel pretty samey, especially because the Adele and Clanche are basically mook units. AGE stuff is sort of like IBO stuff in that the setting stuff means that if you pushed it into another setting it would have an insane advantage against most of the prolific weaponry in the setting, with Age having the advantage of also having ridiculous superpowered mobile suit poo poo.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:22
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Caros posted:I'd say probably 00. By the end, even their mook units have access to trans-am, which would allow them to wipe the floor with grunt units from most series. Even if I didn't already dislike basically everything 00S2 did in terms of story direction, basically nothing I've heard about Trailblazer has ever inspired me to want to see it (which is what I presume trans-am mooks are from, as I don't remember that being a unilateral thing as of the end of S2). Ignoring that, if you're going for silly scaling, Death Army very well might be the most dangerous mooks, otherwise it's very likely something late-UC.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:25
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Lord Koth posted:Even if I didn't already dislike basically everything 00S2 did in terms of story direction, basically nothing I've heard about Trailblazer has ever inspired me to want to see it (which is what I presume trans-am mooks are from, as I don't remember that being a unilateral thing as of the end of S2). Death Army mooks were presumably full of evil nanomachines or whatever, but they didn't even have beam weapons, if you remember this bit. Maybe they upgraded later.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:28
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I mentioned it before, but when it comes to designs, I'm in the minority. The Oz Aries gundams are my favorite. They remind me of the Hercules Mark 1 and 2 heavy fighters from Freespace 1 & 2.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:38
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Begemot posted:Death Army mooks were presumably full of evil nanomachines or whatever, but they didn't even have beam weapons, if you remember this bit. Maybe they upgraded later. Eh, that was mostly a joke, as you're completely right they didn't exactly have the greatest feats around, based purely on occasionally accomplishing at least something against the absolutely ludicrous stuff G-Fighters could do. They DID however have beam weapons. At the very least the club guns were apparently beam rifles.
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Sep 7, 2017 01:02
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Fargin Icehole posted:I mentioned it before, but when it comes to designs, I'm in the minority. The Oz Aries gundams are my favorite. They remind me of the Hercules Mark 1 and 2 heavy fighters from Freespace 1 & 2. The Aries looks like a fighter jet pilot, so it is cool and good.
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Sep 7, 2017 01:45
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ImpAtom posted:At this point the highest-spec grunt units probably belong to something like Age (which mass-produced the Age units a generation behind) or 00 (GN drive equipped grunt units) Nah, the highest-spec grunt suit is the WaDom.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:40
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I love the other little technical details in Wing, like how beam sabers are battery powered and rechargeable, so Epyon's sword being directly linked to its reactor is patently insane. The entire haft of Deathscythe's beam scythe is batteries too, which is how it can work underwater. I think Minkovsky particles go underexplained, and how they can even distort visible light in high enough concentrations which is what the projector venty things on Deathscythe's shoulders are for. Begemot posted:It's actually just a Leo with a cool helmet. Or is a Leo just a Tallgeese without a helmet or boosters 
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Sep 7, 2017 03:36
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Ranzear posted:I love the other little technical details in Wing, like how beam sabers are battery powered and rechargeable, so Epyon's sword being directly linked to its reactor is patently insane. The entire haft of Deathscythe's beam scythe is batteries too, which is how it can work underwater. I don't think Wing uses Minovsky particles at all. There is one reference on a monitor to M-Particles, but the Buster and Twin Buster Rifles are officially plasma weapons. This is how Wing nukes two Leos with just the heat wave off the edge of the beam itself, which you don't really see in a mega-particle weapon. As for the Deathscythe, on the original the Hyper Jammer supposedly scatters 'particles', but they're distinct from Minovsky Particles in that they don't interfere with electromagnetic waves or visible light, they just seem to screw with the electronics of nearby mobile suits, actively messing with their cameras rather than distorting light. Even in UC, the distorted light effect was only noticeable at significant distances, and didn't act as a cloaking device so much as it made things really hard to hit. On the Deathscythe hell the explanation appears to be a variant of however the hell planet defensors are supposed to work.
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Sep 7, 2017 05:43
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ImpAtom posted:AGE stuff is sort of like IBO stuff in that the setting stuff means that if you pushed it into another setting it would have an insane advantage against most of the prolific weaponry in the setting, with Age having the advantage of also having ridiculous superpowered mobile suit poo poo. IBO's grunts are interestingly balanced against other settings since they're primarily at the advantage in defense. Offense, a Shiden's not going to be any good against most grunts unless it can close distance, and they don't tend to have anything there beyond a good movement speed and some basic thrusters. Unless a PD suit is close enough to hit you with a hammer the size of a small office park, it's probably not a problem. On the defense, though, they're nightmares for grunts in most settings. Getting too close kills any unshielded electronics, and beams are even more useless against them than conventional firearms. (A Shiden taking continuous fire from a fairly heavy looking beam cannon only lost a hand. And that was only due to the ammo cooking in its rifle, rather than direct beam damage.) Only way to hurt them short of the most obscenely overpowered suits is to fight on their terms, and everything but the most basic suits tends to use beams in melee. (A mistake in this context). it's a case of the whole setting developing along a different paradigm, which is fun. (Mobile Armors, of course, are a different story.)
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Sep 7, 2017 07:10
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