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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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C. Everett Koop posted:I know that's the end result if we do nothing and continue down the current path. Like I said, White Privilege is the tumor in the brain; taking it out may immediately kill the patient but doing nothing will eventually kill the patient (and yes I know everyone dies don't give me that pedantic poo poo). In a perfect vacuum world we would do nothing and love would conquer all and we'd all make mixed babies and everyone would look like The Rock and Bey and none of this poo poo would exist. But that might, might, only happen when my grandkids have grandkids at best. It's more likely they'd be rounded up and put in chains or a mass grave if we do nothing. This is really a misuse of the concept of privilege. Having privilege isn't a flaw, literally everyone has privilege of some type. The point is to be aware of it so you can act with humility, mindfulness, and empathy. Like, the whole idea behind privilege is that it isn't asked for and cannot be relinquished, only redirected to empower others.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:38
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Dmitri-9 posted:Afro-pessimists like Coates can go to hell. Why?
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Sep 8, 2017 04:49
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Ardennes posted:I do think there are people who voted for Trump beyond issues of race, even if it was all over his campaign. There was an economic plank to his campaign and while you can say he ultimately tricked people with it, doesn't mean it didn't exist.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:56
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Well for one thing, Coates doesn't think price gouging during a natural disaster is wonderful and the poor need to hurry up and die in hurricanes already so there's more supplies for rich people.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:57
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Mechafunkzilla posted:This is really a misuse of the concept of privilege. Having privilege isn't a flaw, literally everyone has privilege of some type. The point is to be aware of it so you can act with humility, mindfulness, and empathy. Like, the whole idea behind privilege is that it isn't asked for and cannot be relinquished, only redirected to empower others. I'm probably softening my argument by calling it White Privilege instead of White Supremacy, tbh. But Coates whole article is that racism is ingrained in America at a foundational level. Even the slightest push towards actual true equality has caused a severe backlash. When that occurs, there's no possible chance at solving the problem.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:57
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Mechafunkzilla posted:This is really a misuse of the concept of privilege. Having privilege isn't a flaw, literally everyone has privilege of some type. The point is to be aware of it so you can act with humility, mindfulness, and empathy. Like, the whole idea behind privilege is that it isn't asked for and cannot be relinquished, only redirected to empower others. Pretty much everyone started using 'White Privilege' synonymously with 'Original Sin' the moment it escaped containment from social studies.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:59
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Inescapable Duck posted:Pretty much everyone started using 'White Privilege' synonymously with 'Original Sin' the moment it escaped containment from social studies. No, I don't think so.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:59
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Inescapable Duck posted:Pretty much everyone started using 'White Privilege' synonymously with 'Original Sin' the moment it escaped containment from social studies. The pervasive idea that unexamined privilege is a moral failure rather than a failure of education and experience has caused a lot of the discourse to break down.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:19
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Ardennes posted:Uh ......I deny the main thrust of the article? Whiteness doesn't explain everything going on. You don't have to be a Trump voter to see he was able to recruit substantial appeal due to his anti-trade/globalization stance. In the end, he has deceived those people. The problem is how do you actually move left enough in a way to get those people on your side. UHS is a step in a good direction, but I think there is a broader issue of wages and trade that is still largely unanswered (including by a GMI). TNC if anything uses a standard argument I have seen from many centrists, just in a more intelligent and well-written manner (most of the time it is hidden under a bunch of other garbage). I don't think the main thrust conflicts at all with what I bolded in your post.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:42
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Mechafunkzilla posted:The pervasive idea that unexamined privilege is a moral failure rather than a failure of education and experience has caused a lot of the discourse to break down. Not to mention the whole idea of wealth somehow falling out of the discourse, resulting in the people most touting 'check your privilege' in the same tones as 'repent, sinner!' having tons of unexamined privilege themselves. Possibly why you don't hear it very much any more. The centrist denial of wealth disparity has gone from merely a result of academic negligence and poor education to increasingly shrill and desperate denialism and projection that any oxygen given to economic justice must be taken away from social justice. And increasingly strong indications that the people who make the biggest deal about that don't actually care about either and just want to look good without giving up a shred of their own privilege.
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Sep 8, 2017 06:22
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i like that bernie is ignoring hillary's jabs and whining about how she was wronged during the election and is instead focusing on helping people  https://twitter.com/colbertlateshow/status/905964224907812874 bernie's great!
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Sep 8, 2017 07:37
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Too bad he’s not running in 2020
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Sep 8, 2017 07:52
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Anyway seeing the usual suspects poo poo on TNC over the past couple days is kinda hilarious. True to leftist stereotypes about “I’m colorblind and we need to focus on economic matters” white racial privilege
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Sep 8, 2017 07:56
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shrike82 posted:Anyway seeing the usual suspects poo poo on TNC over the past couple days is kinda hilarious. first of all, as if a trump voter (oh, and an actual white supremacist if koalas march is to be trusted, and i do trust her) like you cares one whit about PoC second, TNC has been being discusseed for a day at most so in short, go troll somewhere else shrike
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Sep 8, 2017 08:11
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Like I said, Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the general for 2020. I can’t imagine spending the next 4 years whining about the centrists and then having to vote for Harris or Booker. And didn’t you literally emigrate last year to France because of the election? I’m surprised you feel attached to American politics.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:14
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shrike82 posted:Like I said, Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the general for 2020. you don't have to vote for a fascist piss clown just cause you don't want to vote for harris or booker and no, i emigrated 4 years ago go away troll
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Sep 8, 2017 08:17
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shrike82 posted:Too bad he’s not running in 2020 If Hillary runs again, I could see Bernie going another round, if only to remind people that bending over to Goldman Sachs shouldn't be party policy.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:26
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He’s a good man but running at 80 isn’t a good look. I’m surprised he isn’t trying to transfer the groundswell under him to a younger progressive.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:29
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Warren doesn't want to run though. (She'd probably accept VP if asked)
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Sep 8, 2017 08:32
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As meta-commentary, this thread is kinda funny because it just follows D&D’s pattern of being leftist during non-election periods and then swinging hard behind the Dem candidate during election year. I didn’t think about it in 2012 but it was pretty funny how last year, the forum changed its tenor about leftism and just shat down on anyone even doing the least bit of nay-saying about Abuela (“show me the map!”). I can’t wait to see the same thing happen in 2020 with people defending Booker’s Wall Street ties or Harris’ prison money.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:39
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shrike82 posted:As meta-commentary, this thread is kinda funny because it just follows D&D’s pattern of being leftist during non-election periods and then swinging hard behind the Dem candidate during election year. this thread didn't exist until after the election, so i dunno what the gently caress you're talking about its predecessor also didn't exist until after the election
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Sep 8, 2017 08:43
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That’s my point if you actually read what I wrote
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Sep 8, 2017 08:44
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shrike82 posted:That’s my point if you actually read what I wrote why would i waste time reading much of anything you write shrike? 90% of the time you are trolling
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Sep 8, 2017 08:51
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Maybe take a chill pill and stop saying “I’m not mad” while posting at me?
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Sep 8, 2017 08:52
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shrike82 posted:Maybe take a chill pill and stop saying “I’m not mad” while posting at me? maybe stop making pointless troll posts 24/7? pretending i fled the country cause of trump? pretending you give a poo poo about anyone else after voting for trump and saying you're gonna do the same in 2020? how about that?
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Sep 8, 2017 09:02
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Hi, I decided to watch football and I celebrated the Pats losing for awhile. Anyway, Coates is good and the people who think otherwise suck. K goodnight P. S if you think racism will be fixed by pure economics, you are dumb.
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Sep 8, 2017 09:18
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Peachfart posted:Hi, I decided to watch football and I celebrated the Pats losing for awhile. Anyway, Coates is good and the people who think otherwise suck. yeah, anyone who thinks racial issues are solved entirely by economics is dumb. but the opposite is also true. you need a joint effort of social justice and economic justice to achieve actual justice
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Sep 8, 2017 09:25
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Condiv posted:yeah, anyone who thinks racial issues are solved entirely by economics is dumb. but the opposite is also true. you need a joint effort of social justice and economic justice to achieve actual justice Agreed. Rock on Condiv.
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Sep 8, 2017 09:30
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Futuresight posted:I don't think the main thrust conflicts at all with what I bolded in your post. Eh, I think he neglected the economic angle pretty hard in all honesty. A history of whiteness and if anything white supremacism in the US has a lot to explain of what is happening, it just isn't the only piece of the puzzle. Trump was successful because he gas lit enough of the white working class to vote for him by making it seem it was going to do "something." I do think plenty of those people ignored the issue of race or even embraced some of his points, but at the same time were also influenced by his ever-changing economic campaign. The way of undermining him and white supremacism (which needs to be the first target), is to completely undermine the narrative he built. Granted, Trump has done much of the work himself, but the door needs to be shut on him and his hard-core followers. You don't need to win all of them (and probably can't), but maybe some of the softer followers (some who currently disapprove of Trump) may be a target. Also, I think arguing that white people shouldn't talk about MLK in any context is if anything completely weakening and undermining his message. People (including and maybe especially white people) softening or re-writing his message needs to be stopped but if you suddenly make MLK "off limits" regardless of context... you are doing a disservice to literally everyone.
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Sep 8, 2017 09:50
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Condiv posted:i like that bernie is ignoring hillary's jabs and whining about how she was wronged during the election and is instead focusing on helping people I'm late to this verrit thing but reading Peter Daou's twitter feed is like looking into an alternate dimension. It's all people complaining that Bernie obviously cost Hillary her win because he called her crooked, he is the real one dividing the party with his constant complaining about Clinton post election and didn't support her enough after the primary, leftists are the ones that can't get over the primary and keep rehashing it unlike them, Clinton critics are all either Russian bots or conservative, sexist racist Bernie bros, and that non-leftist Democrats have absolutely no voice in the party anymore. These people are so detached from reality it's a little scary and frankly they aren't that different from hardcore Trump people in terms of cultlike mentality. I wouldn't be surprised if we have another Hillary is 44 situation where a chunk of her supporters are so bitter that they go hard right and back the Republican in the next round when she is no longer the nominee. I'm glad Bernie's response to all this is to basically "this isn't worth my time there's more important things going on" since Clinton and her camp are pretty clearly willing to publicly burn ever bridge they can if it absolves them of any responsibility. The Clintons are absolutely toxic to politics both within and outside the Democratic party and need to be severed. Was there any other candidate that went on this sort of six month long blaming tour after losing, it just feels unprecedented. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 12:57
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https://twitter.com/MissEllieMae/status/906155281008164864 lol
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Sep 8, 2017 15:37
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The upside of Hillary's ongoing meltdown is that it actually seems like the Democrat establishment is sick of her and cutting ties, especially if she burns more bridges with her book. Between the parodic excerpts and apparently real ones she's entering the Tyson Zone.
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Sep 8, 2017 15:45
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Ardennes posted:Eh, I think he neglected the economic angle pretty hard in all honesty. A history of whiteness and if anything white supremacism in the US has a lot to explain of what is happening, it just isn't the only piece of the puzzle. Trump was successful because he gas lit enough of the white working class to vote for him by making it seem it was going to do "something." I do think plenty of those people ignored the issue of race or even embraced some of his points, but at the same time were also influenced by his ever-changing economic campaign. Your grasp of the level of influence white supremacy has had on the history of United States economics, a nation built by slaves on the corpses of Native Americans, where we fought a devastating civil war just to end slavery in only the most technical sense and continue to this day to use and abuse black people, is frankly insulting. Your willingness to downplay the incredible inequality of the New Deal for minorities is hilarious - what is "redlining," again? Posting MLK quotes like they're the end of an argument while absolving white people for electing an orange rodeo clown on the promise of "gently caress minorities" is asinine. MLK wanted to lead a movement for the poor because if black people led, the white moderate couldn't ruin it as they had and continue to do so. Race and class are inextricably linked in American life and no plan to end capitalism is going to succeed so long as white supremacy stands - they are mutually beneficial structures that support each other. And frankly, TNC is probably right about us being doomed, because lol guys global warming is a thing and we are still trying to decide if it's cool for Mexican people to live here. It might be possible to forge a future for leftist economics in America, but a leftist economics that denies the gravity of how much more exploited minorities have been than white people is morally and practically bankrupt.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:09
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Yeah I'm hoping that's the case as well. I remember some articles about people saying that she wasn't pleasing anyone when she added some establishment DNCers to the list of people who failed her. I'm not sure what's to be gained by keeping her around even if you are the most pragmatic centrist alive. If you want to make the case she's the best fundraiser around, money clearly isn't buying US elections so it's not worth it.Lightning Knight posted:Your grasp of the level of influence white supremacy has had on the history of United States economics, a nation built by slaves on the corpses of Native Americans, where we fought a devastating civil war just to end slavery in only the most technical sense and continue to this day to use and abuse black people, is frankly insulting. Your willingness to downplay the incredible inequality of the New Deal for minorities is hilarious - what is "redlining," again? Posting MLK quotes like they're the end of an argument while absolving white people for electing an orange rodeo clown on the promise of "gently caress minorities" is asinine. Yeah this exactly. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 16:10
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Ardennes posted:I do think plenty of those people ignored the issue of race or even embraced some of his points, but at the same time were also influenced by his ever-changing economic campaign. quote:Interviewer: You don't buy the argument that Donald Trump's election was about the white working class in America feeling marginalized from a globalized workforce, from a globalized economy that had left them behind — and that that's what was animating that demographic.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:17
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Rotten Red Rod posted:I still don't really understand what Verrit even is but this twitter exchange is one of the funniest things ever lmao
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Sep 8, 2017 16:21
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The best is that in Daou's less obviously idiotic tweets he has a bunch of dummies telling him how awesome he is. He also retweeted his wife saying how right he is.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:40
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Lightning Knight posted:Race and class are inextricably linked in American life and no plan to end capitalism is going to succeed so long as white supremacy stands - they are mutually beneficial structures that support each other. And white supremacy ends when white workers stand in solidarity with their class, rather than their race. The obvious way forward is class struggle and class consciousness. Do you have a different idea?
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Sep 8, 2017 17:31
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Hillary: I UNDERSTAND THE COMEDY! HOW DO YOU DO, FELLOW KIDS? BLEEP BLOOP!
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Sep 8, 2017 17:35
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Jizz Festival posted:And white supremacy ends when white workers stand in solidarity with their class, rather than their race. The obvious way forward is class struggle and class consciousness. Do you have a different idea? Not in particular, but white workers choosing race over class is a historical problem that also doesn't have a clear remedy. My only issue with this particular brand of ideology is that I think solidarity has to be a two way street. Demanding that minorities sign up for the class war and then blowing off their problems with regards to white supremacy and patriarchy is bullshit.
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Sep 8, 2017 17:36
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