|
What is it?
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 12:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:37 |
|
|
Your Parents posted:http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ I love that theory and I think that the dude is right in that the ending is a victory with a high cost - it also reminds me a lot of Grant Morrison's work and his pocket dimension traps. however I think this is wrong: quote:Meanwhile: Leland, possessed by BOB, went on doing his thing after Laura disappeared off the face of the planet the night she was supposed to have died. Gordon remembers “the unofficial version” where Laura died, but he knows it was the right call and is not too bothered. Most of Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me happened. Most everything else didn’t–which has implications for a lot of what happened in The Return. There is nothing in The Return that implies that it takes place in a world without Laura Palmer dead - unless you pretend that every character has a hosed up memory and remembers thing that did not happen (Cooper visiting Twin Peaks). There is also an issue of Judy inside Sarah Palmer chomping on that trucker. I think that there is nothing fucky in the timeline at that point - Judy is just anchored to Sarah and continues to corrupt the world through the influence (vomiting child, White lodge invasion). THEN Cooper does his thing and, through time fuckery, Judy feels it and tries to smash Laura's photo in defeat. The material world is unaffected, but the balance of the Lodges is restored once the Dream (the show) ends in a scream.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 12:43
|
|
|
So far I have yet to read an explanation that feels totally "right". Hopefully I never will. Certain explanations will focus on a host of issues and then leave out the Woodsmen and the nuclear bomb and whatnot. There's so much going on, you really need to make a flowchart. I actually believe that, in retrospect, the most revealing thing we learned about Bad Coop/BOB was the relationship that both seemed to have with The Woodsmen. Now, we *know* from Episode 8 that The Woodsmen predate anything else in the show having to do with the Lodges, despite the fact that we never see a single woodsmen in any sort of interdimensional space! I mean, they are of course STRONGLY linked with The Convenience Store, which appears to facilitate several modes of travel. But we don't see them in the Red Room or the Purple Place or the Giants Tower, ever. Yet we know they are heavily linked to these places. I really love that he kept The Woodsmen in particular almost completely mysterious, because it sort of insures Season 3 and Episode 8 will always be loving terrifying. If I knew what the Woodsman wanted or what their agenda was or what EXACTLY they were it would ruin a huge component of what makes them so viscerally terrifying, beyond simply their appearance. And I really do not know if they are on BOB's side or the Doppelganger's side - total mystery to me. I would tend to say BOB, but I'm not happy with it. Almost as an example of all this, I find BOB way way way less scary knowing that he can be destroyed by some acne-faced London kid with a gardening glove that has the power of "an enormous piledriver". It just... Sorta takes away some of the terrifying mystique of BOB as an unkillable presence of evil latent in the hearts of men (inasmuch as he also seemed to be a predatory man with long dirty-grey hair). So for similar reasons, I feel like it'd be pretty loving dumb if the ending was Laura Palmer exploding like a megaton bomb and "killing Judy". Sounds like the person who came up with that idea didn't really "get" the dichotomy between episodes 17 and 18.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 13:30
|
|
|
I like the theory that someone posted here that the woodsmen are simple minded minions whose prupose is maintaining the playground where the lodge entities play their game, eg: feeding on human sorrow. Relating to 'the water and the well', they make sure the well keeps running. Now, why they kill, Bill Hastings, I have no idea. Was he an obstacle to something?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 13:48
|
|
|
He seemed pretty garbonzialy
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:04
|
|
|
I've been focused on Cooper's lapel pin. It's missing in the Fireman riddle in S3E1. It's present in the Lodge/Red Room/Mauve Zone scenes in E1-3. It's missing on Dougie throughout the show and missing on Cooper when he comes back. It doesn't appear to be on Cooper in the final showdown with BOB, but I think it IS present as Cooper approaches the Basement Door with Diane and Cole. It is for sure present after Cooper exits in Glastonbury Grove, drives around with Diane, goes back in time, and goes to Odessa. I don't know why I'm fixated on it, but it seems representative of something. If we're playing with universes or timelines, it seems like Lapel Pin Cooper is part of a different continuity than Non Pin Cooper, but I haven't fully explored this idea yet. It could just signify Cooper as Completed Cooper or Whole Cooper - he doesn't get his FBI Pin (legitimacy?) until BOB is dead.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
Fados posted:I like the theory that someone posted here that the woodsmen are simple minded minions whose prupose is maintaining the playground where the lodge entities play their game, eg: feeding on human sorrow. Relating to 'the water and the well', they make sure the well keeps running. He had info he was gonna tell
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
I really think this pin thing is just a continuity error y'all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:33
|
|
|
I was hoping they were going to destroy Booper by giving him a bath
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:What is it? garmonboziaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. its to find this source of ultimate negative energy, he only has coops memories, not leland's, so he doesn't know where it is because coop never did before the split, bob can only guide him in this, like bob guided leland in the first place to find sarah and thus laura. it's also possible giant is using this as part of the trap to make sure he spends this 25 years in search of it to always lure him to white lodge/sheriffs station Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Sep 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:36
|
|
|
mary had a little clam posted:I've been focused on Cooper's lapel pin. It's missing in the Fireman riddle in S3E1. It's present in the Lodge/Red Room/Mauve Zone scenes in E1-3. It's missing on Dougie throughout the show and missing on Cooper when he comes back. It doesn't appear to be on Cooper in the final showdown with BOB, but I think it IS present as Cooper approaches the Basement Door with Diane and Cole. It is for sure present after Cooper exits in Glastonbury Grove, drives around with Diane, goes back in time, and goes to Odessa. yeah i think non-pin coop is the bob trap loop and pin coop is the judy trap loop. whatever you believe, there is 100% without a doubt, at least two timelines shown throughout season 3, when i do my rewatch im gonna see if i chan order the scenes in which timeline they belong, and that goes for all of it, not just cooper scenes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:39
|
|
|
Your Parents posted:http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ It's not bad, but he says he's driving a 1980s car and is in a 1980s motel room. That to me is a 1950s car, and 50s motel room. They even play the same song from the radio station in episode 8 when Diane and Cooper are having sex. I don't think it necessarily destroys his thesis, I think it just needs to be reworked a little. I hadn't thought about the alternate world as being a creation of the White Lodge, I always put it as a creation of the Black Lodge/Judy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:40
|
|
|
moist turtleneck posted:I was hoping they were going to destroy Booper by giving him a bath the grease
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:43
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:I really think this pin thing is just a continuity error y'all. twin timelines my dude.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:44
|
|
|
Gordon's spinning pin in ep11 is enough to tell me that the pin stuff is deliberate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:I really think this pin thing is just a continuity error y'all. how can you possibly think this?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 14:58
|
|
|
The Walrus posted:how can you possibly think this? Cause it's one dude directing 18 hours of television and poo poo gets lost in the cracks, there are a bunch of other continuity errors throughout the series, and this whole "he has his pin here but not here IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING" thing has been ridiculous since the beginning?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:10
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:Cause it's one dude directing 18 hours of television and poo poo gets lost in the cracks, there are a bunch of other continuity errors throughout the series, and this whole "he has his pin here but not here IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING" thing has been ridiculous since the beginning? It could not possibly be more clearly intentional without an MTV popup bubble pointing it out. If the pin disappeared from one shot to another it would be one thing, but it's from one scene to another, where there is already a ton of in-text ambiguity about when, where, and who those scenes are featuring.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:17
|
|
|
A teeny pin on a lapel is an extremely easy thing to not consider. I don't get it at all. Unless it's specifically there in the red room scenes earlier in the series and not there in the ones from episode 18, or vice versa, I think it's just an accident.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
Pin... Pine... Cooper is a pine weasel in Universe B.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:20
|
|
|
It's not a subtle pin, it's extremely bright and right in the centre of the shot. It seems to even be placed higher on the jacket than it typically would be to allow for it being in the shot. I have no idea how you could look at that initial scene with cooper and the fireman, where he's not wearing his pin, and which is totally ambiguous about where or when it takes place or the logistics of its existence, and then just disregard a hugely obvious visual clue like that. it makes no sense. The Walrus fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Sep 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:30
|
|
|
Lapel pins are a big thing for some people, its definitely intentional
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
There are too many elaborate set design things in the series for it to be a simple error.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:45
|
|
|
esco, what's your take on all this? i would like to you know your conclusions on what the 18 hours magnum opus film from filmmaker artist david lynch and writer mark frost, both whom spent 4 years writing it and about 2-3 years finishing it, means. what was it all about?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:46
|
|
|
Let's not forget one of Lynch's favorite sayingsquote:Find a pin and pick it up, and all day long you'll have a pin
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:49
|
|
|
Ah its seems weve discovered the lynchpin for this whole show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:52
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:esco, what's your take on all this? i would like to you know your conclusions on what the 18 hours magnum opus film from filmmaker artist david lynch and writer mark frost, both whom spent 4 years writing it and about 2-3 years finishing it, means. what was it all about? I wanna rewatch it all before I even begin to try and offer up any overall interpretations. I definitely think a lot of people have nailed one of the main themes with the whole "you can't go home again" thing I see popping up post-finale, though. Currently I'm really enjoying reading different interpretations - that one posted here recently was super cool and interesting, although I definitely don't think the Odessaverse was to trap Judy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:53
|
|
|
There is still something I'm confused about. At the end, are watching just one attempt in Cooper's infinite loop to try to save Laura, with The Fireman trying to help him each time? Or are we watching the final attempt, which ends in the alternate world merging again with the original world, but with two versions of Cooper? Or neither? What is the consensus? I can't figure out the sequence of events too easily.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 15:56
|
|
|
DOPE FIEND KILLA G posted:Being at the right spot isn't enough in Twin Peaks, it has to be the right time too. If Sarah is (or possesed by) Judy then that whole house could be filled with lodge entities. We never saw anyone but Sarah in the house throughout S3 but Hawk did hear something when he visited. What if Alice was talking to Sarah/Judy when answering Cooper's questions about the house. Could also explain the faint "Laura" being heard at the end in Sarah's voice. Coop 'saved' Laura in the past but in the present he found her again and brought her right to Judy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
Somewhere back in the depths of this gargantuan thread, someone linked to a twitter account that reposted and traced certain themes and similarities in Lynch's paintings / art in general. I remember it being really fascinating and comprehensive but I can't, for the life of me, find the link. Did anyone happen to save it / follow the account / remotely know what i'm talking about?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 16:08
|
|
|
Rubber Biscuit posted:Somewhere back in the depths of this gargantuan thread, someone linked to a twitter account that reposted and traced certain themes and similarities in Lynch's paintings / art in general. I remember it being really fascinating and comprehensive but I can't, for the life of me, find the link. Did anyone happen to save it / follow the account / remotely know what i'm talking about? https://twitter.com/ramontorrente/status/891450970101690368
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
Rubber Biscuit posted:Somewhere back in the depths of this gargantuan thread, someone linked to a twitter account that reposted and traced certain themes and similarities in Lynch's paintings / art in general. I remember it being really fascinating and comprehensive but I can't, for the life of me, find the link. Did anyone happen to save it / follow the account / remotely know what i'm talking about? https://twitter.com/_chloi/status/904889618906021888 This thread has a couple, and links another thread with some more references.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
Listening to the Roadhouse album that just came out, I'm enjoying a lot of these songs a lot more now than I did watching the show, where a lot of them just kind of washed over me. I'm really glad it includes Just You and Sharp Dressed Man. Also, still really like the Rebekah del Rio song that made some people here die.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
A True Jar Jar Fan posted:Also, still really like the Rebekah del Rio song that made some people here die. Windswept by Johnny Jewel is probably my favorite Twin Peaks track of all time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 17:07
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:I love that theory and I think that the dude is right in that the ending is a victory with a high cost - it also reminds me a lot of Grant Morrison's work and his pocket dimension traps. Your argument kind of makes sense to me until the part where you claim the show ends with a scream. It's sort of true that this is the last scene, but the episode, as always, ends with the credits. This time, it's over Laura whispering to Cooper. So, the show actually ends with a message being delivered, not with the dream being destroyed. If the show is a dream, then how can there be anything after the dream has collapsed? I kind of want there to be a fourth season, just because it would casually prove most theories wrong. Some of these are really cool, but about half of them are not similar to the show's imagery at all. I don't think there has been a single ant in all of Twin Peaks, for example.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 18:23
|
|
|
mary had a little clam posted:I've been focused on Cooper's lapel pin. It's missing in the Fireman riddle in S3E1. It's present in the Lodge/Red Room/Mauve Zone scenes in E1-3. It's missing on Dougie throughout the show and missing on Cooper when he comes back. It doesn't appear to be on Cooper in the final showdown with BOB, but I think it IS present as Cooper approaches the Basement Door with Diane and Cole. It is for sure present after Cooper exits in Glastonbury Grove, drives around with Diane, goes back in time, and goes to Odessa. I was rewatching 18 and it threw me off as well. Coop's pin is facing one way until he sits down at the table in Judy's diner, when it's suddenly upside down. I don't know if its continuity or what.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
Maybe Laura is trying to save Cooper by telling him exactly what will happen after 2:53 and episode 18 is exactly that. It's been really fun reading all the theories that pop up, from the ultra nihilistic ones to the super hopeful ones. But if I'm to be honest I still disliked the ending even after stewing in it for a week. Though it was better crafted and kind of set up, it still reeks of "lots of speculation from everyone" poo poo the Mass Effect 3 ending was going for. I knew I was going to be disappointed when, what should have been a very cathartic moment - Dougie returning to Janey-E and Sonny Jim - felt like it was tacked on and brushed aside with no fanfare. It felt, to me, that David Lynch cares more about doing weird surreal stuff than the actual characters involved in those events. I would love another season but I doubt that will happen. This season had extraordinary highs for me but as a whole it's not half the show Season 1 was. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:it still reeks of "lots of speculation from everyone" poo poo the Mass Effect 3 ending was going for. get out
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
Errr guys . . . . . https://medium.com/@onantiad/episodes-17-18-of-twin-peaks-the-return-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:37 |
|
|
Your Parents posted:http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ I really like this. Other than rendering the original series void, which I disagree with, this lines up well with my earlier post.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2017 21:33
|
|
