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Groovelord Neato posted:i wish scare chords were illegal. Yeah I thought the sound design was the weakest part. It orchestrated "THIS IS SCARY" way too hard
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Sep 9, 2017 20:03
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toiletbrush posted:I read OP as saying 'it was bad as a horror film because the scares were mostly jump-scares that were massively telegraphed'. Are you saying that's an inaccurate description of the film, or that it's not a valid criticism? It's a goofy thing to say. Of course the scares are telegraphed. It's a horror movie.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:06
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Cool little tidbit on the Pennywise design from one of the concept artists: https://twitter.com/rob__mccallum/status/906545605069156352
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Sep 9, 2017 20:06
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The kids have such good chemistry, it's too bad the film rushes along so quickly, it would've been nice to have had a more laid-back first act before getting herded into the bloodbath. Karloff posted:Yeah, the film never hits a level of horror higher than the opening, but holy poo poo did that opening work. I wish the rest was as gruesome and nauseating as the opening, Georgie weeping as he crawls away with his good arm was stunning. My only hesitation with that scene is when the clown arm comes out, I wish it had held on that overhead shot for a moment more so the arm gets a little too long. Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Yeah, I know it tends to get overused in horror films lately, but the tracking on his face while Pennywise dances for Bev is great. Just the way his head stays perfectly still while everything else in the frame descends into inarticulate madness. That was a really neat bit.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:12
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Groovelord Neato posted:i wish scare chords were illegal. Ban horror movies
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Sep 9, 2017 20:13
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It definitely leans a little too hard on modern horror tropes, which actually makes it feel less otherworldly. The children singing, the sprinting, the tower of bodies all feel too blah and "normal" and totally pale to the more organic moments of terror, like the actual clown handing out balloons, or the bit with the tree, or the slide projector. The more the characters suffer, the better the movie gets, and the more the movie preens over its own effects, the worse it gets.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:23
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ImpAtom posted:I am honestly at a bit of a loss what horror movie this doesn't apply to. I'm not trying to judge your criticism but "I could anticipate what was coming" is something I can say about almost every horror movie I've seen except for when I was young because beyond a certain point you learn to read the language. I didn't at all have the response to Insidious that you did for example. Like I said, the head in the branches scene works because you were looking for a monster and were just met with a dismal thing looking you in the face. The boy in the corner scene in Insidious worked very well. You weren't sure if you saw what you thought you saw. The intro to Leatherface in the original Texas Chainsaw: The timing was strange and the action happened before you were able to register. The whisper reading in Nightmare on Elm Street worked well: You knew something had already gone wrong. The dream sequence in The Exorcist: You're accosted with death symbolism in complete silence. The demon faces in The Exorcist: Thinking of the one ever-so-slightly on the back of the door in particular, no telegraph. Again, did I really just see that? The bear thing in The Shining: You're witnessing something you have no explanation for, but you know you shouldn't be seeing it. The Anna scene in The Innocents: You catch a brief glimpse of something that hasn't noticed you yet. The dinner scene in Alien: You're absolutely as confused as the characters and even after the event, have to piece together what you just saw. The mother and the black book in The VVitch: You see the culmination of a woman damned and know it's hopeless. The first monster appearance in It Follows: You see it's coming from so far away, but you know it's coming for you and you just have to watch it. No jumps necessary. The detective's death in Psycho: He sweeps out of that doorway and knifes him before you understand what's happened. The hand-holding scene in The Haunting: You're focused on the voices and take it for granted Theo was sleeping next to her. There's more to horror than being surprised. You need to come away with the knowledge that you failed to either anticipate or react and that what happened to the character could happen to you. You should never be ahead of your character in horror.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:26
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Das Boo posted:You should never be ahead of your character in horror. This isn't true. It's not a hard rule one way or the other.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:29
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Agreed. The film has this weird mix of " bad CGI monster in your face" moments and actually effective bits, like pretty much every time where they just let Skarsgard do his thing. The Georgie scene is emblematic: choppily edited, and instead of letting Skarsgard taunt him, he transforms into a monster and just bites his arm off suddenly. The cut to his face in his shoulder looks fake as gently caress, and then while we have a good shot of the arm slowly creeping out of the drain, it cuts too soon .
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Sep 9, 2017 20:30
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In the Maslow's heirarchy of horror needs, "terror" is right at the top. Beneath it is suspense, drama, and character. The bottom block is homoeroticism.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:30
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Ban horror movies every horror movie uses scare chords to startle?
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Sep 9, 2017 20:30
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LesterGroans posted:This isn't true. It's not a hard rule one way or the other. I'd consider the opposite suspense, ala Hitchcock's "bomb under the table."
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Sep 9, 2017 20:32
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Das Boo posted:There's more to horror than being surprised. You need to come away with the knowledge that you failed to either anticipate or react and that what happened to the character could happen to you. You should never be ahead of your character in horror. I guess to me this is just a difference in how one watches horror. It sounds like you watch it a lot differently than I do. A lot of my favorite horror is stuff where I genuinely find it predictable and can anticipate it but the fear is not for myself but for the characters. You can argue It drains some of that with being a two-part film but I'd usually able to shove that side for films. Anticipation and knowing something is coming is more important to horror to me than failing to anticipate it because it heightens my own tension and concern for the characters because I, as the viewer, know what is coming. To me the scariest part of horror is the knowledge that you know something is coming and are unable to stop it. (Even if that something is just a jump or a scare.) I'm that way outside of horror too. I find the buildup to, for example, shame or humiliation in a character infinitely harder to watch than the actual shame of humiliation.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:32
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Yeah, I think we're talking "horror" versus "suspense." I consider the two completely different, even if they often mesh well. 
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Sep 9, 2017 20:34
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Of course, we're all scared by different things and in different ways - fears are just fetishes that never broke through into sexual sublimation, after all.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:37
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Someone with a clown fetish has already seen this movie.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:38
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Das Boo posted:Like I said, the head in the branches scene works because you were looking for a monster and were just met with a dismal thing looking you in the face. The inclusion of Insidious and Nightmare on Elm Street are apt here, as both movies, like this one, literally use most if not all of these tricks and largely for the same reason - the nature and source of the horror element.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:40
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The inclusion of Insidious and Nightmare on Elm Street are apt here, as both movies, like this one, literally use most if not all of these tricks and largely for the same reason - the nature and source of the horror element. Would you care to explicate your thesis?
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Sep 9, 2017 20:49
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The inclusion of Insidious and Nightmare on Elm Street are apt here, as both movies, like this one, literally use most if not all of these tricks and largely for the same reason - the nature and source of the horror element. And like the one scare I liked from this movie, the examples I used bucked the BOO! for something less limelight. I'll also say the opening was effective in taking a known and turning it into an unknown: A clown should not be in a sewer. He seems familiar, friendly and charismatic, but he should not be in a sewer. The situation is wrong. I also liked Tim Curry's reading of, "Oh, yes, Georgie. They float." in the original because there was loving lust behind it and it just made you retreat harder. Das Boo fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 20:50
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Das Boo posted:I also liked Timy Curry's reading of, "Oh, yes, Georgie. They float." in the original because there was loving lust behind it and it just made you retreat harder. yeah that's one of my favorite bits. i liked pennywise in the movie well enough but holy poo poo did tim curry knock it out of the park. nobody would remember that lovely miniseries without him.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:53
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Would you care to explicate your thesis? Absolutely not. Think on it.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:54
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Absolutely not. Think on it. So you'll just be condescendingly terse and vague? Cool!
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Sep 9, 2017 20:59
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Das Boo posted:I'll also say the opening was effective in taking a known and turning it into an unknown: A clown should not be in a sewer. He seems familiar, friendly and charismatic, but he should not be in a sewer. The situation is wrong. I also liked Tim Curry's reading of, "Oh, yes, Georgie. They float." in the original because there was loving lust behind it and it just made you retreat harder. All the new film does is elaborate on this. The situation is abuse, stagnation, neglect and trauma, parasitic feeding on the emotions of children, "infections of lust", etc. Uncle Boogeyman posted:like 80% on the conservative side. Very very conservative.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:every horror movie uses scare chords to startle? like 80% on the conservative side.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:04
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considering sturgeon's law that sounds about right.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:06
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Groovelord Neato posted:yeah that's one of my favorite bits. My mom loves horror movies and my dad hates them, so she watched them us even as children. Horror films ended up being my favorite genre real early, but that IT miniseries was the one that scared the poo poo out of me and gave me a fear of clowns for a few years. And yeah, it was all Tim Curry's performance because even as a tot, I found fortune cookie eyeball dumb as hell. Talking about fear, I'd seen IT and was already scared of clowns when I was four. One day my mom is looking out the french doors and tells me there's a clown coming down the hill. She'd teased me enough for me to know this is bullshit and she's having me on, so I bravely marched over to the doors. Nope, there was a clown. Running down the hill with its arms out. I hadn't registered it was Halloween and my sister's friend was coming down to go trick or treating, or at least not until after they had coaxed me out from under the bed. So knowing something isn't there and then realizing you were wrong and IT'S ALREADY loving HERE really rooted itself into my idea of fear. 
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Sep 9, 2017 21:06
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Very very conservative. And many of them are still great. And some of the best moments in, like, all of cinema involve scare chords. It's like saying "ban dark shadows".
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Sep 9, 2017 21:07
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If you got rid of scare chords and surprise scares you pretty much would not have horror movies. What you're probably looking for there is like a creepy mystery maybe.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:12
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Absolutely not. Think on it. Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Sep 9, 2017 21:13
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it's like guns. too many people misuse em so they gotta go.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:If you got rid of scare chords and surprise scares you pretty much would not have horror movies. What you're probably looking for there is like a creepy mystery maybe. Actually, the opposite is true. The "horror movie" as you're aware of it is an inverse of your own expectations - horror is a liminal state. It's only when it crosses that threshold does it really exist, otherwise it's just a bad suspense film with annoying sounds.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:16
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:And many of them are still great. And some of the best moments in, like, all of cinema involve scare chords. The best scare chord is in Jaws when the head rolls out, because it's not even a chord it's more of a scream effect.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:17
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I'm not totally against scare chords and surprise scares, but I do think they should be leaned on way less. It's harder to establish encompassing mood and atmosphere, but it also stays with you way longer. I really liked The VVitch for this. Just that shot of the forest established threat. PT worked as effective short horror film. It had its jumpscares, but most of its time was spent establishing familiarity with a small space, then tweaking it so what you know becomes what you don't know. I'm even pretty sure this is Junji Ito's entire philosophy on horror.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:19
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Actually, the opposite is true. The "horror movie" as you're aware of it is an inverse of your own expectations - horror is a liminal state. It's only when it crosses that threshold does it really exist, otherwise it's just a bad suspense film with annoying sounds. Not really, this is just appealing to propriety. This is the old "2001 isn't a sci-fi movie because it's good" thing. Genre filmmaking is good because it has no obligation to be serious or tactful. Das Boo posted:I'm even pretty sure this is Junji Ito's entire philosophy on horror. He's also made a lot of stuff like Gyo and Hellstar Remina which are absolutely ludicrous in addition to being quite scary.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:20
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Karloff posted:The best scare chord is in Jaws when the head rolls out, because it's not even a chord it's more of a scream effect. that was one of the ones I had in mind. really, nailing a really good jump scare is one of the best things a horror movie (especially a very consciously "Pop Horror" movie like this one) can do. the one where IT grabs Bev after she doinks her dad with the toilet lid got maybe the loudest screams I've ever heard in a movie theater (my favorite in the movie was still GIANT IT though).
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Sep 9, 2017 21:23
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Not really, this is just appealing to propriety. This is the old "2001 isn't a sci-fi movie because it's good" thing. Genre filmmaking is good because it has no obligation to be serious or tactful. That's not what I'm talking about at all, you've completely misread me. You know nothing of my meaning! How you ever got to make a post about anything is totally amazing.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:23
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Magic Hate Ball posted:That's not what I'm talking about at all, you've completely misread me. You know nothing of my meaning! How you ever got to make a post about anything is totally amazing. That horror (what actually scares you) is personal is obvious, but we're talking about horror films.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:28
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:
Ludicrousness doesn't preclude horror, you just need to be a little even-handed with this so you can recognize the peaks as peaks. The Thing's a good example! You have your grotesque and gorgeous creature effects, but you also have paranoia, isolation, and that scene where they slide open the hatch to talk to Dr. Blair and that noose is just hanging there while he insists he's better now. 
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Sep 9, 2017 21:29
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That horror (what actually scares you) is personal is obvious, but we're talking about horror films. 
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Sep 9, 2017 21:32
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:that was one of the ones I had in mind. Yeah, both those were amazing especially giant IT, because I was pretty sure the scene was done with and then.... BAM Another thing I noticed, a lot of people are disappointed that the bullies got short shrift here and I agree, but I think they may have cut some stuff for whatever reason, like Belch and Criss just disappear from the film, but when Bowers attacks Mike he's got blood all over his face, now obviously he killed his father and got a bit of blood on his face but was it that much? Is there a scene on the cutting room floor where Bower kills his two mates as well, I mean, he turns up at Neibolt in their car
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Sep 9, 2017 21:38
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