Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

TNG ended in 1994 and Voyager started in 1995 and was treated like TNG season eight; only way it could have come out sooner is if it had started around TNG season six instead of DS9.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 21:01

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# ? May 13, 2024 11:20

Marshal Radisic: Oct 9, 2012

MisterBibs posted:

I wonder what the franchise would be like today if Voyager had came out right after TNG, to sate the audience who wanted more TNG instead of coming face to face with only DS9. Would Voyager's numbers had been higher had DS9 not poisoned the well?

Voyager did come out right after TNG. "All Good Things" aired May 23, 1994, Generations was released in November, and the pilot for Voyager first aired January 16, 1995. DS9 was only running solo for little over half a year.

You know, I never looked at the timing before, but 1994 must have been a nightmare. Shooting what amounts to two TNG movies, then tearing everything down and building and shooting Voyager in a year? That's insane.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 21:18

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Marshal Radisic posted:

You know, I never looked at the timing before, but 1994 must have been a nightmare. Shooting what amounts to two TNG movies, then tearing everything down and building and shooting Voyager in a year? That's insane.

Sure, the pilot for Voyager had to be filmed twice and ended up costing more than The Wrath of Khan, didn't it?

# ? Sep 9, 2017 21:20

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Marshal Radisic posted:

Voyager did come out right after TNG. "All Good Things" aired May 23, 1994, Generations was released in November, and the pilot for Voyager first aired January 16, 1995. DS9 was only running solo for little over half a year.

You know, I never looked at the timing before, but 1994 must have been a nightmare. Shooting what amounts to two TNG movies, then tearing everything down and building and shooting Voyager in a year? That's insane.

It was. Everyone burned out as hell and was begging for more time that Paramount wouldn't give them; it's why Generations was so rushed and mediocre.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 21:31

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Wheat Loaf posted:

Sure, the pilot for Voyager had to be filmed twice and ended up costing more than The Wrath of Khan, didn't it?

That's a myth that's gotten weirdly overblown. Bujold was on the set for like a day and a half before she walked off (and Berman went to her and they both agreed "this isn't working, at all"), so it was only something like four or five scenes that needed to be re-shot, and it's not like they needed to be re-blocked or whatever (in fact, a lot of the inserts from Bujold's work are still used).

Caretaker came in at $11 million (Khan's "official" budget), Emissary around $12 million and change. Khan wound up costing about $13 million because of rush work on ILM's part.

MikeJF posted:

It was. Everyone burned out as hell and was begging for more time that Paramount wouldn't give them; it's why Generations was so rushed and mediocre.

That production was bugnuts. All Good Things... wrapped in mid-April, the cast goes on break for a week and a half while Herman Zimmerman hastily re-does the bridge and Carson shoots the Enterprise-B prologue, then everyone comes back to start shooting on the sets that Zimmerman hasn't re-done, like engineering, the conference room, etc. Zimmerman botches Stellar Cartography, which delays shooting for a week-plus so then they have to accelerate the rest of the on-set shooting. And then they still have to do their location shooting. On top of all that, Shatner gets his full $6 million salary, and the money originally allocated to Nimoy and Kelley gets given to Doohan and Koenig, because they wouldn't do it otherwise, knowing they were second-fiddles. And they still have to shoot a space battle and the crash scene.

On top of all that, they were given the same $27.5 million that Undiscovered Country officially had (though VI finally wound up costing $30). Generations wound up getting $5 million more to re-shoot the ending at the last minute because of disastrous screenings.

Generations was a motherfuck of a mess.

Timby fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Sep 9, 2017

# ? Sep 9, 2017 21:54

RaspberrySea: Nov 29, 2004

They also had to rebuild sets/rebook venues and reshoot a ton of Mulgrew's scenes after they decided to change her hairstyle after some filming. I think at least everything on Ocampa had to be reshot.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 22:02

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Yeah, I was thinking of the hair thing.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 22:11

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

Kibayasu posted:

The Borg are the Star Trek villain everyone knows, it's not super hard to figure most of that list out. Why Time and Again I don't know (its an okay Janeway episode) but Clues is a good episode at least.

Well, yeah, but given the rest of that list, you'd think the other top 10 TNG entry would be something like, I dunno, I Borg, or All Good Things or something.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 22:26

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

MisterBibs posted:

I wonder what the franchise would be like today if Voyager had came out right after TNG, to sate the audience who wanted more TNG instead of coming face to face with only DS9. Would Voyager's numbers had been higher had DS9 not poisoned the well?

I feel like this is asking whether Hillary would have won if Bernie didn't mess everything up.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 22:27

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Drink-Mix Man posted:

I feel like this is asking whether Hillary would have won if Bernie didn't mess everything up.

Star Trek: Don't engage MisterBibs

# ? Sep 9, 2017 22:45

MisterBibs: Jul 17, 2010; dolla dolla
bill y'all; Fun Shoe

Drink-Mix Man posted:

I feel like this is asking whether Hillary would have won if Bernie didn't mess everything up.

I don't see how the analogy applies, but look at the ratings graph. Everyone was so excited for new Trek after TNG (highest opening Trek premier!), only to come face-to-face with DS9 and quickly exiting stage right accordingly, which directly impacted Voyager's numbers down the line.

We know from stuff like that image that Voyager ultimately resulted in a well-liked Trek series, it's just interesting to wonder what would've happened had there not been DS9 to alienate audiences. Trek has always been chasing the numbers TNG resulted in, after all.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 22:56

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Somebody go usenet diving on google groups to see what people thought of this when it was airing.

# ? Sep 9, 2017 23:36

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

HUIZAR, RONALD A. posted:

Denise Crosby as a Romulan?
9/12/1991
In two episodes this season I noticed that Denise Crosby was working with the Romulans. I cannot remember the titile for this one but it was the one where Goerdi gets programmed by the Romulans. You do not see a face but the voice that comes out of the shadowy figure is Denise Crosbys. And in the Redemption the voice from the shadows was Denise's and it was her who stepped out of the shadow at the end of the prgram.

I have had some people say that they thing it is Tasha from back when she went through the time portal in the Enterprise -C. Others think that it is just Denise playing a Romulan.

What is the scoop on this. I am curious as to what the story behind Denise's re-appearance.

Ronald A. Huizar, No trailer yet.

Jedidiah Jon Palosaari posted:

cliffhanger and unnamed romulan (possible *SPOILER*)
9/17/1991
It seems very likely to me that the woman staring Picard in the face is actually Tasha. Think about it.

Ideas have been hacked out about *how* Tasha could come to be with the Romulans. As to her youthful appearance, I hope 24th century cosmetics have advanced enough so that an individual can, if they so choose, look younger than they actually are. And from Mind's Eye we know how adept the Romulans are at brainwashing. They've just had longer to do it with Tasha, and so have have progressed further, so that now she supports the Romulan empire!

Michael Rawdon posted:

Why "Redemption II" Will Stink
9/10/1991
Why am I responding to this? I don't know. No, yes I do. (I do? Yeah!)
I just told you: it's late. How about that?

Jason Snell posted:
Hi, folks. I'm about to do something incredibly stupid, but what the heck...

That's okay. I do it habitually. Fortunately, we have people who respond to us, which just encourages it (and reveals their own innate stupidity as well).

No, I didn't say that. That would be insulting. (No, really?)

I'd better put a smiley in: :-)

Jason Snell posted:
I was just thinking.. (miracle of miracles!) and have come to a sad conclusion about "Redemption II" before I've heard a word about it from anyone anywhere, before I see it in, oh, 15 days...

It's going to stink.

And I *liked* part one.

Why will it stink?

Well, because you can't resolve a civil war and a romulan conspiracy to change the course of the Klingon empire in one episode.

You mean you've been under a delusion that it's going to change the course of Klingon history? Gosh. Seems kind of unlikely to me. But maybe.

Jason Snell posted:
But on top of that, you can't try to do all the above while also trying to explain away the "is it Tasha or is it not" etc. etc. cliffhanger. Do you get the sense that no matter what they do, this will be incredibly contrived?

It was contrived three months ago. :-)

Jason Snell posted:
Either she's somehow related to Tasha, which is ridiculous, or she's not, in which case the whole cliffhanger is completely pointless.

Ahem! :-)

Jason Snell posted:
"Uh, she just happens to look like her!" is lame, but the other possible: "We altered her features so she looked just like Tasha!"

Vidiot, you've seen the synopsis, so you know how they do it... but before I've heard a word, I just thought I'd say that I was hoping they'd stretch this plot out past one show. Doesn't look like they will. And, hey, they've got to get Worf back on the big E while they're at it!

If I'm wrong, I'll be very, very happy. But my expectations are low... not like last summer, when I was really looking forward to BOBW2.

Low expecations can be nice. More chance for you to be pleasantly surprised.

Jason Snell posted:
Sigh.

We now return the control of this terminal to you...

We control the horizontal, we control the vertical...

--
Michael Rawdon U Wisconsin - Madison
raw...@cs.wisc.edu

Of course, the above is true for more general values of 5.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 00:00

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Man I want more 90's internet trek opinions.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 00:15

Ventana: Mar 28, 2010; *Yosh intensifies*

MisterBibs posted:

We know from stuff like that image that Voyager ultimately resulted in a well-liked Trek series, it's just interesting to wonder what would've happened had there not been DS9 to alienate audiences. Trek has always been chasing the numbers TNG resulted in, after all.

I was just talking to a friend of mine today about STD, and we started talking about ratings for the different series's. And I was wondering, do we know how popular TNG was compared to other TV shows at the time? My family watched TNG only in re-runs so I never really knew how much of an impact TNG had in it's initial run.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:16

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Averaged something like 10 million households per episode throughout its run. Very steady across all seven seasons as well; no big drop-off toward the end compared with the earlier seasons. Probably something to do with the syndication arrangement. Cursory look at Wikipedia seems to indicate that the highest-rated episodes were "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things" at either end and both parts of "Unification" in the middle.

To the best of my knowledge, the most popular programme in America at the time (for TNG's first five seasons) was The Cosby Show, which usually had over 20 million on average.

Also according to Wikipedia, "All Good Things" was rated #2 behind episodes of Seinfeld and Home Improvement.

Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Sep 10, 2017

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:25

Orv: May 4, 2011

Drink-Mix Man posted:

Hmmm...

I uhm, may have legitimately forgotten that TNG stood for The Next Generation. :ohdear:

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:36

Brawnfire: Jul 13, 2004; 🎧Listen to Cylindricule!🎵
https://linktr.ee/Cylindricule

I keep seeing Janeway with a tiny red moustache in that cartoon

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:38

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Wheat Loaf posted:

Averaged something like 10 million households per episode throughout its run. Very steady across all seven seasons as well; no big drop-off toward the end compared with the earlier seasons. Probably something to do with the syndication arrangement. Cursory look at Wikipedia seems to indicate that the highest-rated episodes were "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things" at either end and both parts of "Unification" in the middle.

To the best of my knowledge, the most popular programme in America at the time (for TNG's first five seasons) was The Cosby Show, which usually had over 20 million on average.

Also according to Wikipedia, "All Good Things" was rated #2 behind episodes of Seinfeld and Home Improvement.

Cosby Show was popular enough at the time to justify preempting news coverage of the LA Riots just to show the finale.

Now though, yikes.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:41

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

The Unlife Aquatic posted:

Who are these people???

Notice how they have the TNG episodes as single slots but the voyager episodes combined? Wonder if they're double-counting the voyager ones (combining part 1 and part 2 scores together).

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:46

Lord Hydronium: Sep 25, 2007; Non, je ne regrette rien

Tunicate posted:

Notice how they have the TNG episodes as single slots but the voyager episodes combined? Wonder if they're double-counting the voyager ones (combining part 1 and part 2 scores together).

Dark Frontier and Endgame are both single episodes on Netflix (and I believe were aired as such, and only split up for syndication), which is why they're counted and listed like that. Scorpion and BOBW are in two parts on Netflix and the list.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 01:54

Klungar: Feb 12, 2008; Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'

Is that list supposed to only indicate the most popular Borg episodes, which is why it seems so screwy? All the non-Janeway characters on there are/were Borgs.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 03:19

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

Klungar posted:

Is that list supposed to only indicate the most popular Borg episodes, which is why it seems so screwy? All the non-Janeway characters on there are/were Borgs.

The list is exactly what it purports to be, but I guess also a reminder that trekkies outside this thread still love them some Borg, no matter how overbaked they got.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 04:22

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Timby posted:

In, like, every survey taken over the past 15 years, Voyager has been almost always at the top of "favorite Trek series" polls.

Quark: I want you to try something for me. Watch a clip of this.
Garak: What is it?
Quark: A human TV show. It's called Voyager.
Garak: I don't know.
Quark: Come on. Aren't you just a little bit curious?
Quark: What do you think?
Garak: It's vile.
Quark: I know. It's so bubbly and cloying and happy.
Garak: Just like the Federation.
Quark: But you know what's really frightening? If you watch enough of it, you begin to like it.
Garak: It's insidious.
Quark: Just like the Federation.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 04:50

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Klungar posted:

All the non-Janeway characters on there are/were Borgs.

Janeway was assimilated too, pretty sure. So it's all Borg, all the time.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 04:55

Beachcomber: May 21, 2007; Another day in paradise.; Slippery Tilde

Drink-Mix Man posted:

Hmmm...

Dr. Noah was right.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 06:51

Klungar: Feb 12, 2008; Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Janeway was assimilated too, pretty sure. So it's all Borg, all the time.

Thanks, I've never seen an episode of Voyager, so I wasn't sure if she would be included in that or not.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 09:43

1000 Brown M and Ms: Oct 22, 2008; F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Drink-Mix Man posted:

The list is exactly what it purports to be, but I guess also a reminder that trekkies outside this thread still love them some Borg, no matter how overbaked they got.

Case in point: me ages 12-15. I couldn't get enough of the Borg around then, but now I think they're pretty cliched. I guess lots of Trek fans never grew out of it :shrug:

I'm still absolutely baffled by Time and Again being on that list. It's such a nothing episode. I can only assume it's because of people starting at the beginning of the series, but then why aren't Caretaker and Parallax on there?

# ? Sep 10, 2017 10:14

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

I grew up on Voyager so I like it, fight me :colbert:

(don't fight me i'm weak)

# ? Sep 10, 2017 11:32

Bohemian Nights: Jul 14, 2006; When I wake up,
I look into the mirror
I can see a clearer, vision
I should start living today; Clapping Larry

JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

I grew up on Voyager. . . i'm weak)

Classic example of cause and effect

# ? Sep 10, 2017 11:57

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Bohemian Nights posted:

Classic example of cause and effect

...which should be on the list, that episode is awesome.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 14:32

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Janeway was assimilated too, pretty sure.

Except in Janeway's case, it was part of a master plan to trick the Queen and release a virus to destroy Unimatrix Zero, and once her plan succeeded, the Doctor was able to de-Borgify her immediately with no ill effects. :suicide:

# ? Sep 10, 2017 15:52

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Timby posted:

Except in Janeway's case, it was part of a master plan to trick the Queen and release a virus to destroy Unimatrix Zero, and once her plan succeeded, the Doctor was able to de-Borgify her immediately with no ill effects.

That's really how it ends? I've never seen Endgame, but I assumed it was Future Janeway who was assimilated and sacrificed herself for the crew. :psyduck:

# ? Sep 10, 2017 17:20

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Big Mean Jerk posted:

That's really how it ends? I've never seen Endgame, but I assumed it was Future Janeway who was assimilated and sacrificed herself for the crew.

I'm talking about the Unimatrix Zero two-parter (the first part ending with the cliffhanger of Janeway, Torres and Tuvok all Borgified). Endgame ends with the Queen eating Future Janeway and then the collective dies.

# ? Sep 10, 2017 17:50

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

Case in point: me ages 12-15. I couldn't get enough of the Borg around then, but now I think they're pretty cliched. I guess lots of Trek fans never grew out of it

I'm still absolutely baffled by Time and Again being on that list. It's such a nothing episode. I can only assume it's because of people starting at the beginning of the series, but then why aren't Caretaker and Parallax on there?

Maybe they count stopping in the middle and starting the episode days later from the beginning because you forgot what was going on as a rewatch? :shrug:

Or maybe multiple attempts to get through it without ever finishing it all in one sitting?

# ? Sep 10, 2017 18:16

Randallteal: May 7, 2006; The tears of time

From the press release:

"Netflix analyzed the viewing data of 104 million members across 190 countries who have watched the following Star Trek series on Netflix: Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Enterprise, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: The Original Series, Star Trek: Voyager. In an attempt to look for data beyond default behavior, the first two episodes from any season ones were omitted from the data. “Rewatch” is defined when a member returns to watch at least 6 minutes of an episode they had previously completed."

https://media.netflix.com/en/press-releases/netflix-boldly-goes-where-no-man-has-gone-before-revealing-star-trek-fans-favorite-episodes

# ? Sep 10, 2017 18:27

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Timby posted:

I'm talking about the Unimatrix Zero two-parter (the first part ending with the cliffhanger of Janeway, Torres and Tuvok all Borgified). Endgame ends with the Queen eating Future Janeway and then the collective dies.

So they had two season-ending two-parters with the same basic premise and resolution?

# ? Sep 10, 2017 18:53

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

Yes: borg borg borg borg borg

# ? Sep 10, 2017 19:03

vermin: Feb 28, 2017; Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

"The script-doctor has weighed in on what we need to focus on."

Drink-Mix Man posted:

Yes: borg borg borg borg borg

"Believe me, he knows what he's saying."

# ? Sep 10, 2017 19:08

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# ? May 13, 2024 11:20

Mister Kingdom: Dec 14, 2005; And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Was Sisko's brief interaction with Kirk from "Trials and Tribble-ations" ever brought up in any of the books?

# ? Sep 10, 2017 19:23

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

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