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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:white people are inherently racist because they are white is racist Assuming that white people who grew up in a culture of racism are probably racist to some lesser or greater extent... isn't really that far-fetched.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:41
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boner confessor posted:it's best to assume that pretty much every white person is a racist and then wait to see if they say things which indicate they're aware of things like structural and institutionalized racism, microagressions etc. to bump them out of the "racist" category into "still racist but aware of it and trying not to be". It's probably not good to profile anyone because of skin duder. Assuming bad things about people randomly on first sight, much less an entire group of people, just sounds like being an rear end, try not original sin'ing people and instead just judge them by what they actually say or do and if they are a racist shithead, there you go.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:43
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:white people are inherently racist because they are white is racist Sounds about right to me, not sure what exactly it means but sounds right!
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Sep 10, 2017 23:43
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So I have a question about all this racist PewDiePie stuff, but not about the act itself. Specifically an affereffect of the act. Specifically, the head of Campo Santo (the developer who made Firewatch) sent out a tweet announcing that he's filing a DMCA takedown against the Firewatch vid PDP did: https://twitter.com/vanaman/status/906983575337107456 So of course naturally nearly every GG'er and armchair lawyer is screaming at him "you can't do that, that's illegal, muh fair use" and also posting this image from Firwatch's website as evidence of "perjruy"  So I have a handful of questions, some of them which are pretty stupid-sounding but so far my only exposure to the DMCA is people using it in usually bad and abusive ways (like some of the same people that GG'ers would agree with on any given day but that's beside the point at the moment). 1. This definitely isn't perjury or outright illegal, right? Just because they gave permission on their website doesn't mean that it's a legally binding statement or contract, right? Sean Vanaman even made the point that "well technically all Let's Play's are infringement, it's just a question of how much a developer or publisher lets it slide or supports it". Which I know to be more or less true, since developers have handled this stuff in many different ways, from blanket allowances, to contract deals, to just not allowing monetization at all. 2. Is this a "proper" use of the DMCA? Some people with slightly cooler heads have suggested sending a cease-and-desist rather than using a DMCA takedown. 3. Even if it is fair use (which if I understand correctly, would have to be proven by PDP in court), does Campo Santo have any legal recourse to say "we don't want our game associated with this person even in a tertiary way because of their abhorrent world views"? Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 23:47
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Yardbomb posted:It's probably not good to profile anyone because of skin duder. Assuming bad things about people randomly, much less an entire group of people, just sounds like being an rear end, try not original sin'ing people and instead just judge them by what they actually say or do and if they are a racist shithead, there you go. i'm white and i grew up in a racist society, it's taken me years of effort to even realize my own internal racism and how it was placed there through forces beyond my control, and i'm an intelligent and well educated individual. most other white people don't stand a chance at achieving even this relatively low standard, instead reflexively turning to denial and dismissal of the very concept of internalized racism (due to white fragility) because i am white, i am often in the exclusive company of white people. i have white friends, white family, and (mostly) white coworkers and acquaintances. i'm privy to what white people talk about when only other white people are around. white people are incredibly loving racist and every one of the more than thirty years i've spent in a white dominated racist society basically confirms it. sorry if that makes you uncomfortable (not sorry) rather than trying to confirm that a white person is racist, it's far more accurate to assume that they are and wait for them to say something which disproves it
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Sep 10, 2017 23:49
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boner confessor posted:
I pretty much agree with this, but we are also at a different wavelength which explains some of arguing of the last thread. While I acknowledge that pretty much every person is racist in one way or another, when I hear the word racist I take that to mean someone who goes beyond normal. All of that said I don't have delusions about how racism works, it is subtle until they think they can get away with saying horrible poo poo. When I hear the word racist I think "this person really hates X deep down" and not "He was being really insensitive towards X". Not saying that is logical, just how my brain works. EDIT: Also, kind of disagree that you can disprove racism by claiming that you have gone through all the instructions yadda yadda. Either we are off the grid or on it. It's really difficult to disprove racism when everyone wants to appear to not be one. Midig fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 23:54
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boner confessor posted:rather than trying to confirm that a white person is racist, it's far more accurate to assume that they are and wait for them to say something which disproves it loving this. Society is pretty loving racist and as a white person who benefits from this racism, you are probably gonna be racist without even knowing it. It's not a personal moral failing (unless you have been called on it/had it already pointed out/etc.) to have the same prejudices that society in general has, if you have no experience outside of the norms of that society. Really, you'd think some of the people who come into this thread to complain about people being called out for doing racist poo poo were taking it as if someone was physically assaulting them rather than saying 'hey, maybe examine your biases and don't buy into structural racism' or something.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:57
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I mean hey having your identity attacked sucks, but if you aren't gonna let that stop you I'm not either.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:06
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Angry_Ed posted:So I have a question about all this racist PewDiePie stuff, but not about the act itself. Specifically an affereffect of the act. Specifically, the head of Campo Santo (the developer who made Firewatch) sent out a tweet announcing that he's filing a DMCA takedown against the Firewatch vid PDP did: I don't have an expert opinion on this. But people seem to see DMCA takedowns as a way to punish someone they don't like because they did not favour a youtube review or the reviewer (Examples are Bold guy and H3H3 or drama around Floating marked mod for Skyrim). When it comes to videos it is considered fair use if the original content is used sparingly with your own content on top to make it transformative. It can then be considered satire, review or educational. However, I don't see how this would apply to let's plays since they pretty much play the game with their own face in the corner with some comment section spam on the right side. So it is probably not fair use. PDP is earning money based on their content without adding much but his screams on top (I would guess). I loving hate lets plays though, so I am a bit biased in that regard. Midig fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 00:07
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boner confessor posted:i'm white and i grew up in a racist society, it's taken me years of effort to even realize my own internal racism and how it was placed there through forces beyond my control, and i'm an intelligent and well educated individual. most other white people don't stand a chance at achieving even this relatively low standard, instead reflexively turning to denial and dismissal of the very concept of internalized racism (due to white fragility) Racism is not necessarily something a person is (though it can be if they refuse to look or listen to others) but is something that a person does and therefore can come into or go out of existence at any moment based on the choices and actions a person takes. I don't care what's in some screeching Swedish moron's heart of hearts wrt the Congo Free State or Muslim immigration. The things that come out of his mouth are proof that it should be packed with salt and stapled shut. We of course live in a deeply racist culture that conditions and pressures us in ways we'll never even notice, and we all fall into patterns prepared for us by the most culture no matter how attentive and careful we are. But pewd is loving trash who can't crawl over the lowest bar and it's inevitable that he'll do the Laci Green at some point rather than confront the reality of his behavior.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:15
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Personally I'd say LP's can be fair use because some people put a lot of effort into it and do produce a different product at the end, and others do it to showcase old games that you can't really get any more and which you otherwise wouldn't be able to see, but just watching someone play a modern game while yelling epithets into the microphone I don't think really fits that.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:16
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Angry_Ed posted:1. This definitely isn't perjury or outright illegal, right? Just because they gave permission on their website doesn't mean that it's a legally binding statement or contract, right? Sean Vanaman even made the point that "well technically all Let's Play's are infringement, it's just a question of how much a developer or publisher lets it slide or supports it". Which I know to be more or less true, since developers have handled this stuff in many different ways, from blanket allowances, to contract deals, to just not allowing monetization at all. Legally they're probably in the clear. Ethically though it's kind of the same position as the guys who used to host Stormfront's website were in. With nothing more than their own will they were able to strip things away from someone for no reason other than they disagreed with him. In the abstract that's kind of disturbing.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:44
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Yardbomb posted:It's probably not good to profile anyone because of skin duder. Assuming bad things about people randomly on first sight, much less an entire group of people, just sounds like being an rear end, try not original sin'ing people and instead just judge them by what they actually say or do and if they are a racist shithead, there you go. the vast vast majority of white people are racist. look at polls of blm support for instance.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:49
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Glazius posted:Legally they're probably in the clear. Well yes  but on the other hand the alternative is not acting and thus implicitly supporting it.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:51
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business hammocks posted:Racism is not necessarily something a person is (though it can be if they refuse to look or listen to others) but is something that a person does and therefore can come into or go out of existence at any moment based on the choices and actions a person takes. agreed and most white people don't even bother learning why describing an african american as eloquent or supporting "all lives matter" is a racist thing to do
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Sep 11, 2017 00:53
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Uh, that's an...interesting argument. So as long as anyone is in a profession that's not game journalism, they can freely say the n-word all they want? 
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Sep 11, 2017 00:53
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boner confessor posted:agreed I can understand why the second one is seen as racist but I am not understanding the first one
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Sep 11, 2017 00:54
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I can understand why the second one is seen as racist but I am not understanding the first one It implies that it's a remarkable achievement.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:55
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I can understand why the second one is seen as racist but I am not understanding the first one because if you describe a black person as "eloquent" as a compliment, you make the implication that most black people are not eloquent (i.e. stupid)
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Sep 11, 2017 00:56
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I can understand why the second one is seen as racist but I am not understanding the first one http://affinitymagazine.us/2016/12/28/why-black-people-are-tired-of-being-called-articulate/ it has undertones of "wow, i'm amazed you're capable of stringing words together to coherently articulate your thoughts" like, obama is eloquent. that's a statement of fact, he is an extremely skilled orator. but it's a cliche in america to describe a black person as eloquent or articulate for being able to speak like an educated (read: white) person. american vernacular is littered with these kinds of pitfalls
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Sep 11, 2017 00:56
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boner confessor posted:http://affinitymagazine.us/2016/12/28/why-black-people-are-tired-of-being-called-articulate/ [non shitpost] Thank you for telling me this [/non shitpost]
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Sep 11, 2017 01:12
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Glazius posted:Legally they're probably in the clear. There's nothing disturbing about making GBS threads on racist assholes.
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Sep 11, 2017 01:17
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Mr Interweb posted:Uh, that's an...interesting argument. So as long as anyone is in a profession that's not game journalism, they can freely say the n-word all they want? This just reminds me of the time that Ryan Davis (may he rest in peace) got really frustrated and called an AI enemy a human being in one of Giant Bomb's streams, but then he immediately apologized and wrote a letter to the community, owning up to it and promising it would never happen again. And the community mostly forgave him, because he seemed completely genuine and truly repentant. This has nothing to do with whether or not an internet games personality is a journalist or not, it has everything to do with intent and history of such remarks. Ryan Davis didn't have a history of homophobia and didn't exhibit any after the incident, so his explanation of "I just warped back into my lovely childhood mindset and said something really hurtful and I'm sorry" was able to be accepted. But PewDiePie, someone who built a broadcasting career off of rape jokes and has had a string of racially-insensitive remarks even after his "turning over a new leaf", doesn't deserve that benefit of the doubt. boner confessor posted:http://affinitymagazine.us/2016/12/28/why-black-people-are-tired-of-being-called-articulate/ It's the modern-day version of "You're a credit to your race". Your white rear end may think of it as a huge compliment, but all you're really saying is "Well, you're one of the good ones!"
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Sep 11, 2017 01:23
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Field Marshal, honest question, are you not American? A lot of the nuance of American race relations can be lost on people from other countries to the point where it seems like people are being overly precious when rather things are just weird and hosed
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Sep 11, 2017 01:29
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https://twitter.com/Barrziini/status/906954698820898818
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Sep 11, 2017 01:33
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Lightning Lord posted:Field Marshal, honest question, are you not American? A lot of the nuance of American race relations can be lost on people from other countries to the point where it seems like people are being overly precious when rather things are just weird and hosed he's from northwest england iirc which is why i decided not to be a dick for once, every nation has weird and complex internal race relations. i wouldn't assume to know a thing about what it's like to be a brit of african descent
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Sep 11, 2017 01:46
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Glazius posted:Legally they're probably in the clear. I mean I feel like advocating an ideology of violence is more than just a disagreement but I'm not a fuckin idiot so what so I know
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Sep 11, 2017 01:54
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Can one man even get blown out any harder.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:23
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I mean I feel like advocating an ideology of violence is more than just a disagreement but I'm not a fuckin idiot so what so I know *must resist urge to make shitpost* Stormfront getting nuked from the clearweb will just mean they head on to Tor and out of sight from polite society
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Sep 11, 2017 02:34
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Good?
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Sep 11, 2017 02:37
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:*must resist urge to make shitpost* good, they'll lose half their audience through technical attrition and the rest will be driven underground where they should have been all along "disallowing people to openly talk about how much they want to molest kids will just make them discuss it in secret. this is a problem because"
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Sep 11, 2017 02:45
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boner confessor posted:good, they'll lose half their audience through technical attrition and the rest will be driven underground where they should have been all along Its a problem if you want to keep tabs on them I guess?
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Sep 11, 2017 02:59
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Its a problem if you want to keep tabs on them I guess? it's not hard to keep tabs on them. it's not like tor is a secret clubhouse. the more secretive they become the less they can recruit new members or influence broader discussions
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Sep 11, 2017 03:01
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boner confessor posted:it's not hard to keep tabs on them. it's not like tor is a secret clubhouse. the more secretive they become the less they can recruit new members or influence broader discussions As long as 4chan still stands Stormfront and their ilk can still shill for members. Stormfront basically shitposting on 4chan is one of the catalysts behind the rise of the alt-right. Tor just makes it easier for the main members of Stormfront to call the shots and hide their influence. Also this is a thing now Intrinsic Field Marshal fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 03:07
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Yep and it's also good.
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Sep 11, 2017 03:08
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:As long as 4chan still stands Stormfront and their ilk can still shill for members. Stormfront basically shitposting on 4chan is one of the catalysts behind the rise of the alt-right. much like something awful, 4chan is dying
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Sep 11, 2017 03:11
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boner confessor posted:much like something awful, 4chan is dying hiroyuki will start shaking users down with donations if he really wants the money and even if they did the party will move to 8chan I suspect the FBI is funding 4chan for information on pedophiles personally
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Sep 11, 2017 03:15
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OwlFancier posted:Yep and it's also good. Its all fun and games until he gets doxxed and his game's steam score is in the toilet.
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Sep 11, 2017 03:17
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Well firewatch afaik is good, while pewdiepie is bad.
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Sep 11, 2017 03:19
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OwlFancier posted:Well firewatch afaik is good, while pewdiepie is bad. Quite the hot take
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Sep 11, 2017 03:28
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