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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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John Henry Miller posted:Trump has already passed more bipartisan legislation than Obama ever did. lmao
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Sep 11, 2017 11:22
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:ignoring his attempts to repeal the aca or when he government tried to block us citizens from entering the US cause they were too brown
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Sep 11, 2017 11:22
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:ignoring his attempts to repeal the aca twice
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Sep 11, 2017 12:39
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i'm just here for the dem meltdowns https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/775019665106071552
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Sep 11, 2017 12:46
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shrike82 posted:i'm just here for the dem meltdowns I'm starting to think that Peter Daou is a national treasure with all the entertainment he brings us. I just hope he doesn't fully melt down, buy a crate full of AKs, and storm some twitter datacenter like an ex child-soldier-rambo. Ytlaya posted:It might be tough for you to understand, but many people actually recognize that there are important problems that are causing many people to suffer, and the Democratic Party is the only realistic vector for fixing those problems. As a result, the problem of trying to move the Democrats towards more beneficial policy is a very important one, and something the average left-leaning voter arguably has a lot more control over than whether Trump does bad things. Trump/Republicans don't really give a poo poo if a bunch of liberals post online about how much they hate Trump (if anything it probably increases Trump's credibility in conservatives' eyes), but, at the very least, the Democratic Party is obviously aware and at least somewhat concerned about the "schism" represented by Sanders and the left. Yeah, It's really cool and good watching some of the louder shitheads that were rattling off bad right wing incrementalist policies like they were Hillary's Gift to Mankind starting to backpedal lately as public backlash against the HRC campaign becomes more and more prevalent. The amount of people starting to take a poo poo on the DNC/Hillary Crew after this verrit thing (even loving politico, lol) for both bad policy and their divisive campaign strategies is probably a good sign for leftist politics in this country. Will anything come of it? Doubt it, but it's good to know you're not alone I suppose.
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Sep 11, 2017 14:54
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Nobody offline gives a gently caress about Russia because the whole thing balances on an axis of "nobody would have known how bad Hillary was unless Putin told them"
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Sep 11, 2017 14:59
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call to action posted:Nobody offline gives a gently caress about Russia because the whole thing balances on an axis of "nobody would have known how bad Hillary was unless Putin told them" Putin didn't say anything about Benghazi.
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Sep 11, 2017 15:04
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One of the issues with Hillary is that if there hadn't been a concerted effort to paint Sander's fans as sexist and racist there wouldn't have been nearly as much bad blood after the primary. It's one thing to go after the opposing candidates which is the point of the primary, but there was a lot of messaging that supporting economic leftism inherently resulted in racism. That's not to say that they weren't racist or sexist Sanders supporters, which there definitely were, but the entire movement was painted with that brush and the mentality still exists today in her supporters. People are going to obviously take personal attacks personally and even then 90% of Sanders people went to Hillary in the general. There is literally no reason to attack people voting in your own primaries as it fosters deep divides within your own party. Getting rid of the Clintons isn't going to solve the big issues with the Democrats and their love of right wing policy, but it will hopefully result in less toxic elections where salting the earth is fine as long as you might get ahead. Hillary deciding that she needs to go after everyone from the leftists to Obama is probably a good thing since at least everyone has a common reason to quietly retire her from influence (I'm probably being too hopeful there).
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Sep 11, 2017 15:04
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The bad blood comes not only from that, but from the fact that Clinton supporters are provably more racist than Sanders supporters, so the claims of racsexism came off as particularly craven
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Sep 11, 2017 15:09
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Radish posted:One of the issues with Hillary is that if there hadn't been a concerted effort to paint Sander's fans as sexist and racist there wouldn't have been nearly as much bad blood after the primary. It's one thing to go after the opposing candidates which is the point of the primary, but there was a lot of messaging that supporting economic leftism inherently resulted in racism. That's not to say that they weren't racist or sexist Sanders supporters, which there definitely were, but the entire movement was painted with that brush and the mentality still exists today in her supporters. People are going to obviously take personal attacks personally and even then 90% of Sanders people went to Hillary in the general. There is literally no reason to attack people voting in your own primaries as it fosters deep divides within your own party. Getting rid of the Clintons isn't going to solve the big issues with the Democrats and their love of right wing policy, but it will hopefully result in less toxic elections where salting the earth is fine as long as you might get ahead. It was a dumb af move, but they did it in an attempt to appear to be Actually Left (relatively speaking, and only socially via lip service) and to whip/guilt/shame the DNC leftists into voting for the center-right establishment candidate. It would have probably been a decent longish-term strategy to make the public accept her hawkish right wing policies for a while if she had Actually Won though. It also fit in rather conveniently with that campaign's "The other side is a bunch of savage *-ists who will personally purge everyone and everything you hold dear" scare tactics. Hopefully all the bad blood will drive her and her ilk into irrelevance but I'm going to go full pessimist and say it'll be hillary Vs trump 2020 anyways. e: call to action posted:The bad blood comes not only from that, but from the fact that Clinton supporters are provably more racist than Sanders supporters, so the claims of racsexism came off as particularly craven They want to make sure that minorities are equally represented in media so bougie internet liberals can feel warm and fuzzy on the inside while the politicians they elected do nothing about prison slave labor and growing levels of poverty. Because it turns out the republican ideal of FYGM is immensely profitable. Marxalot fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 15:15
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Marxalot posted:
I don't think she will run. It's still years away, even part of the establishment will have moved on, she'll be older and remember what a trial the last campaign was. That said, I believe she will try to be a King/Queenmaker and be very active in trying to influence who is the candidate and what policies get the spotlight. There are some signs when a politician has had enough and is ready to just retire and pick a humanitarian cause to pursue in he background, and she's showing none of them.
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Sep 11, 2017 16:46
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:ignoring his attempts to repeal the aca Mitch McConnell and the administrative state are dedicated to destroying Trump. Mitch needs to get back to work so Trump can put America back to work!
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Sep 11, 2017 17:20
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John Henry Miller posted:Mitch McConnell and the administrative state are dedicated to destroying Trump. Mitch needs to get back to work so Trump can put America back to work! By doing things he agrees with? Look man, this is the dems are a waste thread, not the suck off trump thread Please go to the trump thread if you wanna jerk it to trump
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Sep 11, 2017 17:24
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I am new here. Where is the Trump thread? Here, I will focus on how Hillary cheated during the Primary and was very unfair to Bernie Sanders. She was a sore winner too, which made Sanders supporters vote for Trump.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:26
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Trump is better than Hillary because they serve the same masters but he's much more incompetent (hopefully Hillary would have been a better president than candidate, maybe I'm wrong here) just lol if you believe there's a difference between the parties
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Sep 11, 2017 17:28
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Hillary's campaign was actively pushing the whole Obama in Muslim garb photo and trying to get as many news outlets to publish it as possible, and also created the whole "Obama boys" smear. Obama won, and so it was in Hillary's and Obama's interest to pretend it never happened. Meanwhile, Bernie succeeding would threaten a lot of establishment jobs, so they are never going to drop it. How do you reconcile Clinton supporting a coup in Honduras or fighting against the minimum wage in Haiti? Well, if you dismiss the people who bring it up as sexist Bernie Bros, you don't have to.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:29
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John Henry Miller posted:I am new here. Where is the Trump thread? Sanders supporters got what they voted for.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:31
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John Henry Miller posted:Mitch McConnell and the administrative state are dedicated to destroying Trump. Mitch needs to get back to work so Trump can put America back to work! Hi, could you get the gently caress out? TIA
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Sep 11, 2017 17:31
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John sorry there are a lot of recovering liberals here and if you suggest the GOP is anything short of the anti-christ that the Democrats have been sent from up above to combat you're going to get a lot of pushback.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:32
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The GOP are doing the Lord's work. It's much easier to obstruct rather than govern.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:36
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yronic heroism posted:As for the rest, pushing the party is one thing, but "Obama bad" is self-defeating when it reaches the point of dissuading general election turnout. Trashing a primary opponent as ineffective is one thing but when it reaches the point of basically calling them a fascist don't be surprised some credulous people are gonna stay home. So basically you're just concern trolling about something you kinda-sorta think might be true without any evidence? Why do you think leftists were responsible for decreasing general election turnout, and why couldn't you use your exact same argument to stifle literally any criticism within the Democratic Party? You can literally always use the argument "you should't criticize the candidate because it has a non-zero chance of decreasing turn-out", but at that point you've basically gone off the deep end and are probably doing far more harm to your party/candidate's image than the people you're criticizing. Heck, one could make the exact same argument you're making, but instead targeted at the sort of Hillary supporters who attempted to shut down leftist dissent; in both cases you could argue that there's a non-zero chance such actions were off-putting to some undecided voters. It sounds an awful lot to me like you're just trying to come up with a post-hoc justification for your irrational anger towards leftists. If you disagree with their ideology, explain why that is. Stop with this cowardly thing where you just selectively respond to the worst arguments made by your political opponents. edit: Oh, another funny thing I forgot to mention is how you simultaneously point to criticism from the left as potentially costing the election, while also talking about how "actual voters" don't care about this stuff. Well, which is it? Are leftists inconsequential, or are they a threat that lead to Trump winning? It seems like you're having trouble keeping your story straight. Marxalot posted:Hopefully all the bad blood will drive her and her ilk into irrelevance but I'm going to go full pessimist and say it'll be hillary Vs trump 2020 anyways. Nah, on the off-chance Hillary ran (which is a very low chance; I'd say maybe 5-10% chance she runs, and that's just accounting for something unexpected happening in the next couple years), there's no way she'd win the primary. If anything, it would be a blessing in disguise for her to run, because it would split the centrist Democratic vote.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:36
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NewForumSoftware posted:if you suggest the GOP is anything short of the anti-christ [...] you're going to get a lot of pushback. Because American Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the Gilded Age. quote:On August 23, 1971, prior to accepting Nixon's nomination to the Supreme Court, Powell was commissioned by his neighbor, Eugene B. Sydnor Jr., a close friend and education director of the US Chamber of Commerce, to write a confidential memorandum titled "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System," an anti-Communist, anti-New Deal blueprint for conservative business interests to retake America for the chamber.[13][14] It was based in part on Powell's reaction to the work of activist Ralph Nader, whose 1965 exposé on General Motors, "Unsafe at Any Speed," put a focus on the auto industry putting profit ahead of safety, which triggered the American consumer movement. Powell saw it as an undermining of Americans' faith in enterprise and another step in the slippery slope of socialism. [...] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum
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Sep 11, 2017 17:38
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John Henry Miller posted:I am new here. Where is the Trump thread? Trump thread is literally named trump thread, hth Now get out idiot
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Sep 11, 2017 17:39
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Accretionist posted:Because American Conservatism is literally a plot to bring back the Gilded Age. thats the plot of both parties, i mean, if you want to lump all politicians in as American Conservatives i guess im ok with that
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Sep 11, 2017 17:40
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Both Democrats and Republicans rig the system to favor the very wealthy. Outsiders like Trump help break their hold on the system. Hillary Clinton was in the pocket of Goldman Sachs. Trump works with both Democrats and Republicans to make America Great Again. Obama did nothing to help the average American. He punished job creators while creating racial division in America. Democrats are a racist party taking money from workers and giving it to people who don't need it.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:41
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NewForumSoftware posted:thats the plot of both parties, i mean, if you want to lump all politicians in as American Conservatives i guess im ok with that did you ever get around to reading up on what Ronald Reagan did, incidentally educational stuff, to my mind
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Sep 11, 2017 17:42
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John Henry Miller posted:Both Democrats and Republicans rig the system to favor the very wealthy. Outsiders like Trump help break their hold on the system. No one gives a poo poo about "job creators". Get out
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Sep 11, 2017 17:43
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Ze Pollack posted:did you ever get around to reading up on what Ronald Reagan did, incidentally Obama posted:"He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like, you know, with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s, and government had grown and grown, but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people just tapped into -- he tapped into what people were already feeling, which was, we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:43
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NewForumSoftware posted:thats the plot of both parties, i mean, if you want to lump all politicians in as American Conservatives i guess im ok with that Well, yeah. But there's three major differences:
The Democrats are 'better' on all three points. Edit: And the party's progressive wing has some real selling points
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Sep 11, 2017 17:46
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Accretionist posted:Well, yeah. But there's three major differences: then they nominate the wife of a former president with no political accomplishments to her name, moving right into full oligarchy and they ran the entire primary trying to divide the left based on race and gender in conclusion, no they aren't establishment democrats are the ones holding the left back, not the GOP
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Sep 11, 2017 17:50
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Remember that May sees eye to eye with the Republican party on immigrants, LGBT people, and kicking the disabled off medical assistance so they die. She isn't some mythical conservative that is socially progressive. The fact that Obama felt it was cool to be buddies with her over Corbyn pretty much shows how they feel about social leftism the second they don't think someone is paying attention. "Socially liberal but fiscally conservative" is as much a lie as Compassionate Conservatism was.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:55
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NewForumSoftware posted:lol at watching Obama's presidency and handling of finance/healthcare reform and claiming the party isnt bought You misread, "partially," as, "isn't."
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Sep 11, 2017 17:57
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Accretionist posted:You misread, "partially," as, "isn't." what makes you think the Democrats are any less bought and paid for than the GOP? was it Hillary taking way more corporate donations than Trump during the election? the endless stream of corporate endorsements?
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Sep 11, 2017 17:58
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Condiv posted:No one gives a poo poo about "job creators". Get out The Democrats keep losing elections because of three simple words: jobs, jobs, jobs. You may not care about "job creators" but that is why you will always lose.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:59
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John Henry Miller posted:The Democrats keep losing elections because of three simple words: jobs, jobs, jobs. the rich don't create jobs. catering to them won't create jobs. go to the trump thread and suck off trump there
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Sep 11, 2017 18:00
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NewForumSoftware posted:Trump is better than Hillary because they serve the same masters but he's much more incompetent (hopefully Hillary would have been a better president than candidate, maybe I'm wrong here) Gentlegoons, I give you this thread's mascot.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:00
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NewForumSoftware posted:Trump is better than Hillary because they serve the same masters but he's much more incompetent (hopefully Hillary would have been a better president than candidate, maybe I'm wrong here) Trump is a racist, transphobic liar and sexual predator who lost the popular vote and is one of the least popular presidents in history. Has accomplished nothing beyond passing a basic hurricane relief package against the wishes of his own party. He's also a deranged conspiracy theorist and threatens nuclear war via twitter. Mind you, this is all indisputable fact. He is literally the worst president in history whose only saving grace is that he is so sabotaged by his own idiocy that he might fail to cause as much damage as previous Republican presidents. Red and Black fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 18:01
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Condiv posted:the rich don't create jobs. catering to them won't create jobs. go to the trump thread and suck off trump there Good job earnestly engaging with an obvious troll.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:02
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Chomskyan posted:Trump is a racist, transphobic liar and sexual predator who lost the popular vote and is one of the least popular presidents in history. Has accomplished nothing beyond passing a basic hurricane relief package against the wishes of his own party. He's also a deranged conspiracy theorist and threatens nuclear war via twitter. Mind you, this is all indisputable fact. He is literally the worst president in history whose only saving grace is that he is so sabotaged by his own idiocy that he might fail to cause as much damage as previous Republican presidents.  pro tip you can just replace Trump with Hillary and it this post would worked just as fine (if she had won the election) though i guess you could swap out sexual predator for slaveowner, gives it a bit more punch anyhow
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Sep 11, 2017 18:03
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NewForumSoftware posted:Reagan Literally your hated abuela's attack line on Obama.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:05
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