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Zerilan posted:If it's
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Sep 13, 2017 23:24
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Ytlaya posted:Put more simply, the "cultural issues" thing is positing that black people, for whatever reason, created/chose a culture that is harmful/lazy/whatever. So then the question becomes "why is this?" and if you ultimately trace things back to their source you'd end up resorting to the idea of there being some innate difference (assuming, as I mentioned before, that you reject the idea of outside structural/environmental issues being the cause). I heard this more often from pre-2015 Republicans than from alt-righters, but one way to avoid this causal inevitability is to posit a conspiracy theory wherein Democrats, unions and social workers trapped the black population in a cycle of poverty and dependence to harvest votes and prolong the existence of their jobs. Of course, in all fairness, pre-2015 Republicans had different priorities, which were to dismantle all social services and labor protections first and foremost, whereas today's fascist right just simply hates minorities. They don't need a narrative that tells them Democrats are the real racists; they need a narrative to shore up racial resentment in the most acceptable way possible. "Black culture" is a great way to do this with just the right amount of plausible deniability.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:25
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Refried Hero posted:Who decides what is valuable though? I am mostly with you on this, but it feels like you are arbitrarily denying value to entertainment that doesn't have value to you personally, but might have value to others. it's valuable if people derive value from it, and some people (oddly enough) derive value and entertainment from my posts, so i have the same right to claim being a content creator as they do. even more of a right actually because i dont even need a video game, i have the fury of my own momentum here and what i'm stabbing at here is that basically everything everyone does on the internet is content creation under that bare bones inclusive standard
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Sep 13, 2017 23:35
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Sphairon posted:I heard this more often from pre-2015 Republicans than from alt-righters, but one way to avoid this causal inevitability is to posit a conspiracy theory wherein Democrats, unions and social workers trapped the black population in a cycle of poverty and dependence to harvest votes and prolong the existence of their jobs. hmmm hate to break it to you but the gop has been a white nationalist party since goldwater. the alt right exists thanks to the republican party. quote:You start out in 1954 by saying, "friend of the family, friend of the family, friend of the family." By 1968 you can't say "friend of the family" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "friend of the family, friend of the family." Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 23:37
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Raenir Salazar posted:Sounds like a really patronizing way of describing film critics like Roger Ebert; or in Youtuber terms, MovieBob or Wisecrack. yeah but ebert was actually clever and funny. bob is just actualy just weird pretentious rear end in a top hat with a technocrat liberal/ authoritarian bent because he got made fun of in high school and never let it go and hates all gaming outside of nintendo(because republican jocks.) no idea about wristcrack. but there are some good genuin critics out there(not just the social ones like lindsey elis or contra and shaun) super bunnyhop is great as is Noah Caldwell-Gervais. id suggest them for good longform style critics rather then bob. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 23:40
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boner confessor posted:thanks for supporting my posting, friend Are you a libertarian?
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Sep 13, 2017 23:56
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HMU on paypal if you like this fresh content!!!
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Groovelord Neato posted:hmmm hate to break it to you but the gop has been a white nationalist party since goldwater. the alt right exists thanks to the republican party.
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Sep 14, 2017 00:00
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Groovelord Neato posted:hmmm hate to break it to you but the gop has been a white nationalist party since goldwater. the alt right exists thanks to the republican party. I think in our context the crucial line from your quote is this one: quote:And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. Republican campaign strategists were aware that their policies hurt blacks worse than whites, but the Republican elite themselves weren't white nationalists. They were conservative aristocrats and didn't give a gently caress about poor minorities one way or another, but brazenly tried to rebrand themselves as "The Party of MLK" to appeal to upper class sensitivities while also assuming permanent ownership of the racist trailer park vote since there was no explicitly racist alternative for them to defect to. This has now changed. The racist voter contingent has claimed what they felt they were owed and there is essentially nothing the Republican elite can do to stop them. They can't win elections without the racists, so all they can do is play nice while the right-wing consensus shifts from "gently caress the poor" to "gently caress the black, brown and queer poor in particular". In a sense you're right, the Republican Party bred the alt-right, but it's a perverted monster they felt they could control rather than the former core of the party. The former core was consumed by the fascist monster and occasionally bubbles to the surface when it comes to denying people healthcare and slashing corporate taxes, which makes this whole situation even more unbearable.
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Sep 14, 2017 00:08
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Angry_Ed posted:1. This definitely isn't perjury or outright illegal, right? Just because they gave permission on their website doesn't mean that it's a legally binding statement or contract, right? Sean Vanaman even made the point that "well technically all Let's Play's are infringement, it's just a question of how much a developer or publisher lets it slide or supports it". Which I know to be more or less true, since developers have handled this stuff in many different ways, from blanket allowances, to contract deals, to just not allowing monetization at all. It is legally binding actually. The way it works is if you place copyright rules on your site, and a reasonable person has access to them, they override whatever the "standard" rules for copyright are (assuming your rules are reasonable in turn). Angry_Ed posted:2. Is this a "proper" use of the DMCA? Some people with slightly cooler heads have suggested sending a cease-and-desist rather than using a DMCA takedown. Hell no, and actually PDP has grounds for a countersuit from what I understand. Using DMCA for this was a BAD idea, especially since PDP didn't do it on a stream of their game. They honestly hosed up and a c&d might have been a better choice (though legally dubious) Angry_Ed posted:3. Even if it is fair use (which if I understand correctly, would have to be proven by PDP in court), does Campo Santo have any legal recourse to say "we don't want our game associated with this person even in a tertiary way because of their abhorrent world views"? That I don't know, sadly. EDIT: this dude seems to know whats up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhn6yrNzM3M Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 00:53
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Groovelord Neato posted:hmmm hate to break it to you but the gop has been a white nationalist party since goldwater. the alt right exists thanks to the republican party. This entire video describes how the alt-right rebranded as libertarian (and that quote is also here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysX0pX_sppY&t=9s
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Sep 14, 2017 01:34
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Sphairon posted:This has now changed. The racist voter contingent has claimed what they felt they were owed and there is essentially nothing the Republican elite can do to stop them. They can't win elections without the racists, so all they can do is play nice while the right-wing consensus shifts from "gently caress the poor" to "gently caress the black, brown and queer poor in particular". In a sense you're right, the Republican Party bred the alt-right, but it's a perverted monster they felt they could control rather than the former core of the party. The former core was consumed by the fascist monster and occasionally bubbles to the surface when it comes to denying people healthcare and slashing corporate taxes, which makes this whole situation even more unbearable. 1. Conservatives cynically breed white nationalist monster in the hopes of riding it 2. White nationalist monster evolves itself and gains sentience 3. White nationalist monster consumes conservative masters and everything else This seems like a common cycle in western nations.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:37
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I feel like it might be just a general expression of monomythic hubris.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:46
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boner confessor posted:it's valuable if people derive value from it, and some people (oddly enough) derive value and entertainment from my posts, so i have the same right to claim being a content creator as they do. even more of a right actually because i dont even need a video game, i have the fury of my own momentum here You seem to be shifting the goalposts an awful lot, so lets try to nail down some specifics. If they work essentially 9-5 and earn as their primary source of income the revenue from streaming, videos uploaded to youtube, or are otherwise paid by an employer for either of those, which may or may not but probably includes editing, is this work, and is valid to call it "That's work."? Would you agree that the fact that their efforts, involves mainly playing video games, does not make it any less valid in being a 'job/work' in this situation? Yes or no, please don't hurt any lama's while answering this, they are noble creatures.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:49
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Over the past few months though, YouTube has been making great efforts to kill off.. well basically anything interesting with their ad policies.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:55
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Raenir Salazar posted:You seem to be shifting the goalposts an awful lot, so lets try to nail down some specifics. "disregarding the 99% of the time your argument doesn't apply, do you or do you not think that in the 1% of cases where it applies, that your argument applies?"
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Sep 14, 2017 01:56
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temple posted:That guy Destiny that debates the alt-light used to be a video game streamer. Maybe he still is. But he's no longer relevant in SC2 so he transitioned into something else. oh he's the same destiny that was groping a woman on stream even though she was clearly uncomfotable with it? lol
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Sep 14, 2017 01:58
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boner confessor posted:"disregarding the 99% of the time your argument doesn't apply, do you or do you not think that in the 1% of cases where it applies, that your argument applies?" Answer the question.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:09
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Raenir Salazar posted:Answer the question. you'll find that i did! also, you are tedious and frustrated that i don't respect video game streaming as a vocation or artform or whatever. sorry!
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Sep 14, 2017 02:10
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little munchkin posted:oh he's the same destiny that was groping a woman on stream even though she was clearly uncomfotable with it? lol Destiny did that?
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Sep 14, 2017 02:18
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boner confessor posted:you'll find that i did! also, you are tedious and frustrated that i don't respect video game streaming as a vocation or artform or whatever. sorry! Sorry about holding you to an intellectual rigorous standard in which to measure the merits of the personal subjective opinion you posted on a dead comedy forum and taking you seriously at face value; but I'm glad you agree with my overall point that streaming/playing games can be a respectable profession just like any other artistic and creative act of content creation.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:23
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And in either case the whole "heh who cares what you do it's pointless if you don't make money off it" thing is kind of shite.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:27
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Mr Interweb posted:Destiny did that? yea. he also got booted from an sc2 sponsor for posting some girl's nude pics
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Sep 14, 2017 02:30
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OwlFancier posted:And in either case the whole "heh who cares what you do it's pointless if you don't make money off it" thing is kind of shite. i never said that  i just said that it's silly to call your hobby a job if you dont make a living doing it. plenty of people spend hours and hours painting miniatures but i dont know how many of them describe it as their vocation
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Sep 14, 2017 02:32
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How many streamers actually do much editing out of maybe trimming for time? Or inserting funny sound effects because JonTron won't stop using racial slurs?
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Sep 14, 2017 02:34
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boner confessor posted:i never said that I've known several who sold their services to paint armies for people.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:09
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Who What Now posted:I've known several who sold their services to paint armies for people. Also what at them sniping at people who make costume stuff earlier too, you can make hefty cash doing replica/reenactment/LARP/cosplay stuff and that is hard rear end work. Like their entire deal has just come off like crotchety old griping.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:30
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boner confessor posted:i never said that Just acknowledge you're being arbitrary because you want to diminish youtubers and streamers and move on buddy. The only thing separating a hobby and a job is whether you make money out of it. The ratio is skewed differently depending on demand for skilled work in a particular domain, but that doesn't bear on whether or it is or isn't a job.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:36
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Maluco Marinero posted:Just acknowledge you're being arbitrary because you want to diminish youtubers and streamers and move on buddy. The only thing separating a hobby and a job is whether you make money out of it. The ratio is skewed differently depending on demand for skilled work in a particular domain, but that doesn't bear on whether or it is or isn't a job. again, i didn't expect it to be so contentious to make fun of youtube video makers in this, the "let's make fun of youtube video makers" thread boner confessor posted:i assume you're not going to go back and read my posts where i talk about exactly this, rather than just jumping in without context and assuming i'm saying something i'm not, so i'll just respond to you by quoting myself from the last page (easily checkable imo) boner confessor fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 03:47
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boner confessor posted:again, i didn't expect it to be so contentious to make fun of youtube video makers in this, the "let's make fun of youtube video makers" thread That's not what this thread is titled.
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Sep 14, 2017 04:46
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A lot of folks who make money off youtube/streaming worked at it for a long time without much of an audience or seeing much revenue from it. They're still working at it while not making money, though. Building an audience is a big part of the job, & it can take a while to get rolling. I wouldn't call it "my job" if it wasn't the main way I paid my bills, but it's still work & time spent, regardless of money earned. Certain people can be rubbish at it, sure, but it is still work. Judge the content, not the concept, I guess.
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Sep 14, 2017 05:00
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Not gonna lie, there's a part of me that definitely admires the level of dedication it takes to have a youtube channel.
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Sep 14, 2017 05:48
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it shaun posted:A lot of folks who make money off youtube/streaming worked at it for a long time without much of an audience or seeing much revenue from it. They're still working at it while not making money, though. Building an audience is a big part of the job, & it can take a while to get rolling. Clint Basinger, aka Lazy Game Reviews took almost a decade to get the point where he could live off being a Youtube guy. The man does extensive research, scripting, and performing in his videos. I fail to see the difference between him and the host of a gaming TV show, except that he can tailor his show to the interests of both himself and his audience. I get what boner confessor is saying, but... let's frame it like this. Freelancers and contractors have jobs, right? Basically a successful youtuber is a freelancer being paid by their audience. People don't clown on the legion of fools discussed in this thread because they use youtube or are streamers or whatever, it's because they're poo poo wastemen.
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Sep 14, 2017 06:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:bob is just actualy just weird pretentious rear end in a top hat with a technocrat liberal/ authoritarian bent because he got made fun of in high school and never let it go and hates all gaming outside of nintendo(because republican jocks.) Um, no. He often advocates for social justice positions and whenever he comes off like he hates geek culture, he does it for pretty much all the same reasons people in this very thread do. I've seen him support a technocratic viewpoint at the expense of leftism all of twice, and never authoritarianism. Your excuses for why you don't like him sound a hell of a lot like GamerGaters complaining about "fake" gamers invading their space as a way of invalidating what they have to say about the problems with bigotry in geek culture. I won't argue with anyone who thinks he's a bad critic, but he has nothing in common with our usual suspects.
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Sep 14, 2017 07:15
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Mr Interweb posted:Destiny did that? Destiny did a lot of bad poo poo.  Sure its fun to watch him debate with absolute idiots but the guy's pretty much just as bad as they are. Solitair posted:Um, no. He often advocates for social justice positions and whenever he comes off like he hates geek culture, he does it for pretty much all the same reasons people in this very thread do. I've seen him support a technocratic viewpoint at the expense of leftism all of twice, and never authoritarianism. Your excuses for why you don't like him sound a hell of a lot like GamerGaters complaining about "fake" gamers invading their space as a way of invalidating what they have to say about the problems with bigotry in geek culture. Moviebob is just as bad as the usual suspects, except that he's on the left side.
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Sep 14, 2017 07:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:i'm mostly just jelly of awful and uninteresting people being able to make a job of just playing video games all day while i gotta toil away. pewdiepie is awful and is the number one youtuber. the number one hearthstone streamer is an uggo with a bad voice and no screen presence. i don't get how any of this works! none of it makes sense! If you're referring to Trump as the Hearthstone guy, I was acquaintances with him during college (I had a couple classes where I would hang out with him and this other guy). He was kinda awkward and never really seemed to be interested in business/finance much (we were business students at NYU Stern), so it was cool to find out that he apparently become pretty wildly successful with this streaming stuff. I remember him giving me Civilization (the computer game) lessons and he was remarkably good at explaining things; I improved dramatically at it after just playing a couple games with him.
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Sep 14, 2017 07:33
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i think he means kripparian, who is even less personable than trump
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Sep 14, 2017 07:43
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Destiny not being behind a livable minimum wage (he believes it's actually detrimental to have one), is all I need to know to discount the man out of hand for the most part.
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Sep 14, 2017 08:02
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ungulateman posted:I think he means kripparian, who is even less personable than trump They also still shill their rear end off for G2A which is a pretty deep black mark by this point, when it's no longer just ha-ha joking about them being propped up by organized crime anymore.
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Sep 14, 2017 13:10
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Archer666 posted:Destiny did a lot of bad poo poo. Yeah, the last time I remember hearing about him until he started debating alt-right people was how often he kept doubling down on being a racist rear end in a top hat back in 2011-12. Dude loved being edgy back then. Maybe he grew up?
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Sep 14, 2017 13:23
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Solitair posted:Um, no. He often advocates for social justice positions and whenever he comes off like he hates geek culture, he does it for pretty much all the same reasons people in this very thread do. I've seen him support a technocratic viewpoint at the expense of leftism all of twice, and never authoritarianism. Your excuses for why you don't like him sound a hell of a lot like GamerGaters complaining about "fake" gamers invading their space as a way of invalidating what they have to say about the problems with bigotry in geek culture. No have you ever read his twitter? He does that poo poo all the time. And "fake" gamer gamer gate bullshit wasn't my point, my point was he was a giant shithead who has terrible opinions about most things except for basic left wing concepts. Other good critics have good socialy and fiscally left views and arn't weird shitheads. You don't need to defend him just because he is a liberal. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 13:42
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