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At Marvel he also at least wrote dialogue, though his biggest contribution was being charismatic as gently caress, endearing Marvel and it's staff to fans in a time when comics rarely even had credits at all. Now he's not even doing that because slapping "by Stan Lee" on something is all there is to it.
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Sep 17, 2017 03:27
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Stan Lee understands that Western comics are a dying artform, and he has moved on to the superior form of artistic expression, anime.
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Sep 17, 2017 03:41
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The thing about Kirby's art that often gets lost (i.e., not spoken about), and this is in no way a damnation of Stan or any other script-writter, is that, you take some Kirby pages, white out all the words. All of 'em. You can still read the story. Now, he's not the only one who could do that. But compare to some of the next gen artists, and certainly the 90's batch, and today's crop (*ahem* Land) and you would have no clue what is happening without the exposition, the dialogue, etc. Monsters and landscapes and machines and aliens are all well and good, but Kirby's real power was simple visual storytelling.
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Sep 17, 2017 03:46
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Ferrule posted:The thing about Kirby's art that often gets lost (i.e., not spoken about), and this is in no way a damnation of Stan or any other script-writter, is that, you take some Kirby pages, white out all the words. All of 'em. You can still read the story. You know, a lot of the best comic artists are often praised for this.
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Sep 17, 2017 03:49
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Anyone reading Mecha Cadet Yu?
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Sep 17, 2017 03:50
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Jordan7hm posted:No pictures, but some thoughts on my continuing read of the marvel universe from the start. Using CMRO. I've been attempting a similar project to this for a few years. I'm up to about 1977. I didn't "get" Kirby's art when I was a kid because there wasn't a lot of access to it. I think the Marvel Masterworks line was just taking off, but you don't really see the best of Kirby in, say, FF 1 through 10. If you keep reading FF, you'll not only see him really earn his crown, but you'll also come to appreciate the fact that inking matters so, so much. I know that's a pretty freshman-level observation, but once Joe Sinnott starts inking Kirby's FF as a regular assignment, boy oh boy. I'm sure there are tons of nerd fights over who inked Kirby best, but Sinnott and Mike Royer are probably the two front-runners. Zoro posted:You know, a lot of the best comic artists are often praised for this. Yep, and once my tastes matured, I really came to appreciate this more than anything else. Sal Buscema is one of the best in the business at this.
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Sep 17, 2017 04:00
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Zoro posted:Anyone reading Mecha Cadet Yu? I read the first issue and liked it a lot. Got the second but haven't gotten around to it yet.
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Sep 17, 2017 04:19
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https://twitter.com/lillie_80/status/909174137234640898 https://twitter.com/lillie_80/status/909174407570034688 Grain of salt and all, this is unverified and Stan's got a history of pretending he's out of the loop when it comes to fan-displeasing moves (the death of gwen stacy, for example).
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Sep 17, 2017 05:14
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I like the implication he used to read them, and apparently approved of them. I'm picturing him thumbing through Chuck Austin's X-Men or the Clone Saga. Also, "Cap is HYDRA now" is, by itself, not really the problem with Secret Empire and as much as I think Spencer is kind of a dickhead, I'm still miffed with people who was accusing Marvel of anti-semitism as soon as the first issue with the twist came out. (Kirby, who is Jewish, did an arc where Cap was brainwashed into being a literal Nazi, so, ya know...) Like, I feel as though people are basically just rushing to this to loudly validate their opinions. Lee is a really convenient puppet for that kind of thing, and the idea that his opinion really matters at all is like a step away from the person who thought Lee personally wrote the issue where Northstar got married.
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Sep 17, 2017 05:22
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TenCentFang posted:I like the implication he used to read them, and apparently approved of them. I'm picturing him thumbing through Chuck Austin's X-Men or the Clone Saga. Also, "Cap is HYDRA now" is, by itself, not really the problem with Secret Empire and as much as I think Spencer is kind of a dickhead, I'm still miffed with people who was accusing Marvel of anti-semitism as soon as the first issue with the twist came out. (Kirby, who is Jewish, did an arc where Cap was brainwashed into being a literal Nazi, so, ya know...) This is basically the same argument that white people use as an excuse to say the N Word though? Like a Jewish man who lived through WWII maybe has a perspective on turning his characters into nazis for a story that we just don't have today? Can you see the difference here?
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Sep 17, 2017 12:51
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A fair point. But even without the precedent, I still think the outrage over that page was dumb, even if the story ended up being terrible anyway. And even if it was objectively terrible from day one, Stan Lee will still say whatever the fans he's currently speaking with want to hear, and people taking his manufactured crowd pleasing as validation are also dumb. TenCentFang fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 15:13
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Is the very early Wonder Woman stuff strange enough to be interesting? Or is it mostly just checking out the weird and funny panels and skipping getting an omnibus of it?
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Sep 17, 2017 21:44
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Ferrule posted:The thing about Kirby's art that often gets lost (i.e., not spoken about), and this is in no way a damnation of Stan or any other script-writter, is that, you take some Kirby pages, white out all the words. All of 'em. You can still read the story. When he writes books that are filled with words, I'm not sure this actually matters. When he writes his own books, it definitely does (though he fills his with words too). It's great that his art could stand on its own (or sometimes tells its own story, which is not the story that the dialog / narration tells), but it doesn't have to, because that wasn't the style of the books. Kirby has a lot of trouble with character dimensions. Hands the size of heads, faces that change shape from shot to shot, characters who gain or lose 50 lbs between panels, and more. He does really well with grotesque and based on his romance books he can do really well with normal life too, but in the Marvel age whether because he's rushed or whatever he just doesn't keep it together. With Giant Man he has him as big as a bridge in one scene and a bit taller than a normal guy in another. It's bad. I'm guessing this is as much a function of being a rush job as anything else, but I don't buy the idea that his storytelling makes up for that.
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Sep 17, 2017 23:42
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Kirby's heads have always looked like they were painted on blocks to me, but it actually worked in Thor where the chiseled jawline gave a sense of strength.
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Sep 17, 2017 23:48
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Jordan7hm posted:When he writes books that are filled with words, I'm not sure this actually matters. When he writes his own books, it definitely does (though he fills his with words too). It's great that his art could stand on its own (or sometimes tells its own story, which is not the story that the dialog / narration tells), but it doesn't have to, because that wasn't the style of the books. Yes, keep going! My case for your apostasy trial just keeps getting stronger! Joking aside though, I agree that when he didn't have his heart in the work, you can tell. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 23:56
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Jordan7hm posted:When he writes books that are filled with words, I'm not sure this actually matters. When he writes his own books, it definitely does (though he fills his with words too). Jack Kirby posted:"KIRBY" has a lot of "TROUBLE" with character dimensions!!! HANDS the size of HEADS, "FACES" that change shape from "SHOT TO SHOT"!!!
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Sep 18, 2017 00:55
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Lurdiak posted:https://twitter.com/lillie_80/status/909174137234640898 Grain of salt, yes, but if it's real what I wouldn't give to hear that phone call.
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Sep 18, 2017 01:46
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Still curious about early Wonder Woman, but I also wanted to ask about Conan comics. There seems to be tons of material on Conan out there--is it generally considered pretty good? I would love an introduction to what's out there--I know he was Marvel for a while, now I think it's Dark Horse? Where would a good place to start be?
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Sep 18, 2017 04:11
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A Strange Aeon posted:There seems to be tons of material on Conan out there--is it generally considered pretty good? I would love an introduction to what's out there--I know he was Marvel for a while, now I think it's Dark Horse? Where would a good place to start be? Start with volume one of the Savage Sword trades. poo poo is  .
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Sep 18, 2017 04:26
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If it says Roy Thomas and/or John Buscema on the cover, it's worth seeking out. Savage Sword has some of the best stuff(because it's a bit more R-rated), but it's all good.
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Sep 18, 2017 04:29
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The first few years of the Dark Horse run by Busiek is superb.
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Sep 18, 2017 04:44
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A Strange Aeon posted:Is the very early Wonder Woman stuff strange enough to be interesting? Or is it mostly just checking out the weird and funny panels and skipping getting an omnibus of it? I haven't read much of it, but what i've read is pretty good, it's at least on par with contemporaneous Batman and Superman.
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Sep 18, 2017 05:11
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A Strange Aeon posted:There seems to be tons of material on Conan out there--is it generally considered pretty good? I would love an introduction to what's out there--I know he was Marvel for a while, now I think it's Dark Horse? Where would a good place to start be? Echoing others and agreeing that the original Marvel stuff is great too though, both the main line series and Savage Sword. It's really hard to go wrong with Conan comics.
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Sep 18, 2017 05:31
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A Strange Aeon posted:There seems to be tons of material on Conan out there--is it generally considered pretty good? I would love an introduction to what's out there--I know he was Marvel for a while, now I think it's Dark Horse? Where would a good place to start be? Conan is basically where fantasy proved it could be viable and popular in comics. The Marvel series is good throughout, and never drops below the level of a decent read. The thing ran from 1970 to 1993, you're going to get some ups and downs. The other posters are right, the best stuff is written by Roy Thomas, and drawn by Barry Windsor Smith, John Buscema or Ernie Chan. Dark Horse has collected it into the Chronicles of Conan, a 34 part reprint trade series, you can get it digitally too. They also have the Savage Sword magazine collected, as well as the King Conan spinoff about Conan's later life, and other Howard characters like King Kull (similar to Conan and was created before him in the prose stories, but just a bit more poetic and introspective) which is also a great series because it features art by the likes of Mike Ploog and John and Marie Severin. There's a minor controversy with the reprints, a lot of people (like myself) didn't like the computer coloring of the early books, but that eventually goes away if you feel the same way. For the Dark Horse series, the best place to start might be at the beginning. While Dark Horse did make a gigantic fuckoff hardcover of the first 50 issues, now they're putting out cheap softcover omnibuses of the entire character's publication history with them, which are also available digitally. The thing with Conan too is because he's a licensed character, every version works from the same stories and becomes a mixture of adaptions and original material. There's not really much continuity to worry about. Of course a series that ran for over 20 years is going to have continuity, but it's contained to the book itself and what happens there doesn't concern the Dark Horse series at all. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 06:13
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My reintroduction to Conan was when I got the job at the shop and in the bathroom was a copy of the FCBD issue that served as a prelude to the Busiel run. I must have read that thing 100 times that summer. Kurt is without a doubt the best modern Conan author and few people draw barbarians like Cary Nord. Their run comes with my highest possible recommendation.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:18
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KaosMachina posted:Grain of salt, yes, but if it's real what I wouldn't give to hear that phone call. The incredibly awkward phone call of someone reminding Stan they already talked about it
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Sep 18, 2017 06:18
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Lightning Lord posted:Of course a series that ran for over 20 years is going to have continuity, but it's contained to the book itself and what happens there doesn't concern the Dark Horse series at all. A neat thing in Conan stories is how sometimes it'll start at the end of an unseen adventure, like Shadows in the Moonlight, which opens up with Conan having tracked down a guy who betrayed him and got a bunch of his friends killed. Also, I've got this theory that Kull, Conan, Bran Mak Morn, and Solomon Kane are reincarnations of the same soul, and they're an(the?) Eternal Champion from the works of Michael Moorcock.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:23
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TenCentFang posted:Also, I've got this theory that Kull, Conan, Bran Mak Morn, and Solomon Kane are reincarnations of the same soul, and they're an(the?) Eternal Champion from the works of Michael Moorcock. Of course they are, since the concept of the Eternal Champion is Moorcock exploring how fiction protagonists often have similar traits. Mostly fantasy or adventure ones, but Karl Glogauer and Colonel Pyat are incarnations of the Champion too. Howard suggests that Kull is Conan's ancestor, btw. Speaking of Moorcock, it's great that Elric appeared in the Marvel Conan books, making him officially a Marvel Universe character IMO. Don't try and tell me that the Hyborian Age is no longer in continuity! It's real to me damnit! I ran an RPG game set on Prince Crystar's planet that took advantage of that fact. But it also sucks that when looking for a source material for how Elric should look, Windsor-Smith found a weird set of American printings where the cover gave him a goofy hat, so we ended up with this  Rhyno posted:My reintroduction to Conan was when I got the job at the shop and in the bathroom was a copy of the FCBD issue that served as a prelude to the Busiel run. I must have read that thing 100 times that summer. Kurt is without a doubt the best modern Conan author and few people draw barbarians like Cary Nord. Their run comes with my highest possible recommendation. Yeah, and Mike Mignola does some stuff in the early Conan issues too. Also, Tim Truman is good. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 06:27
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Else Bloodstone is still in continuity so by associative properties so is the Hyborian Age, even if Conan isn't.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:38
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The best Elric comics, though, are the old Pacific Comics issues. Jeezy wheezy, what I wouldn't do to have a set of them myself.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:38
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Ghostlight posted:Else Bloodstone is still in continuity so by associative properties so is the Hyborian Age, even if Conan isn't. Have Elsa and Monica Rambeau met since N.E.X.T.WAVE was made canon?
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Sep 18, 2017 06:41
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TenCentFang posted:A neat thing in Conan stories is how sometimes it'll start at the end of an unseen adventure, like Shadows in the Moonlight, which opens up with Conan having tracked down a guy who betrayed him and got a bunch of his friends killed. Bran is called out specifically as not being a reincarnation of Kull but his buddy Brule Spear-Slayer, greatest of Picts, in Kings Of The Night.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:44
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Mr. Maltose posted:Bran is called out specifically as not being a reincarnation of Kull but his buddy Brule Spear-Slayer, greatest of Picts, in Kings Of The Night. Well, this is clearly my fault for never having read any Bran or Kull stories, which is kind of weird now that I think about it considering how much I love the gently caress out of Conan and Kane.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:49
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They're not AS good, but you could do a lot worse honestly.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:50
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TenCentFang posted:The best Elric comics, though, are the old Pacific Comics issues. Jeezy wheezy, what I wouldn't do to have a set of them myself. Titan has a line of reprints now, and they're going to be moving on to Corum soon, which has some rad early Mike Mignola and Jill Thompson art. IMO the best Elric comics are P. Craig Russell's adaption of Stormbringer. I like the French adaption, but IMO it makes some story changes that I don't approve of. I'm a fan of when adaptions make sensible or interesting changes, but this one gets rid of some scenes that are important to what the novel Elric of Melnibone is about.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:51
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Lightning Lord posted:Titan has a line of reprints now, and they're going to be moving on to Corum soon, which has some rad early Mike Mignola and Jill Thompson art. Ahhh, that's great, thank you.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:53
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TenCentFang posted:Well, this is clearly my fault for never having read any Bran or Kull stories, which is kind of weird now that I think about it considering how much I love the gently caress out of Conan and Kane. There's a really good comic adaption of Worms of the Earth from Savage Sword. I don't think it's reprinted in the Dark Horse books because it's not a Conan story, unfortunately.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:54
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Ghostlight posted:Else Bloodstone is still in continuity so by associative properties so is the Hyborian Age, even if Conan isn't. Also Shuma-Gorath
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Sep 18, 2017 06:59
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Good to know it's hard to go wrong with Conan! I like Howard's stories so I'll maybe pick up a few random Conan trades from the library and see if it's my thing.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:04
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I'll nth the recommendation of Savage Sword, though. It's some gorgeous art and while the stories themselves are dated, the writing and layouts aren't.
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Sep 18, 2017 16:38
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