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Trabisnikof posted:If you assume a forever war of global scale, then you're a fool if you don't think we should constantly increase military spending. Do you have a pile of terrible posts you just pick and chose from or do voices whisper them to you while you sleep?
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Sep 19, 2017 03:28
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Chilichimp posted:The cop also could have just called his buff, bet the guy wasn't gonna stab him with a closed leatherman, hit him with the mace and his partner tackles him to the ground. "The dumpy campus cop should call the bluff of the person begging to be killed and brandishing what looks like a knife who keeps coming forward" Like dude, there's a bunch of lovely cops killing people, but this one's harder to pull a MAN THE BLOODTHIRSTY PIGS deal on, it's sad as hell it happened as all suicide by cop situations are but jesus christ. Like over and over in that video it sounds like they're trying to talk them down, "What's going on?" "What're we doing?" "Tell us your name" in non-confrontational tones of voice, they back up and back up and they keep staggering in at them, it's not looking like someone was just itching to blow them away. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 03:29
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Condiv posted:who's gonna hollow them out? the fbi that loves the right wing so much they let them camp out in a government building for a month or two? https://twitter.com/stlcountypd/status/909609861230370816
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Sep 19, 2017 03:30
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RandomBlue posted:Do you have a pile of terrible posts you just pick and chose from or do voices whisper them to you while you sleep? I wonder what victory in the global war against terror would even look like anymore.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:31
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Yardbomb posted:"The dumpy campus cop should call the bluff of the person begging to be killed and brandishing what looks like a knife who keeps coming forward" Have you watched the video? Schultz is about the least threatening thing you can imagine, and this is on a campus of STEM majors. He clearly acts like he's on drugs. They had about a minute of him standing still and looking around. If they were threatened enough to kill him they could have easily put one in his leg.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:31
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Boon posted:You make such well articulated and supported arguments http://www.npr.org/2017/09/07/549117911/navy-officials-examine-training-procedures-after-ship-accidents The short version is that the Navy went cheap on training and tried to replace a few months of classroom, simulator and hands on training with a few CBT Modules.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:32
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Boon posted:It's a problem that is fixed by specialization, but the Navy hasn't been willing to pull that lever because they favor 'all-around COs' who understand the total operation of the ships but have mastered very little of it Right and this is the systemic flaw that makes them dumb. Instead of actually having a whole systems level understanding of the ship they just have lists of meaningless competences that are seen as mere hoops to jump through. It's been time to pull that lever for a long time. I hope the recent accidents wake them up to the severe dearth of technical knowledge they've created.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:32
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FizFashizzle posted:If they were threatened enough to kill him they could have easily put one in his leg. Which can also kill you incredibly easily.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:32
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Time to pick up a whole bunch of cans of whipped cream and feather dusters.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:34
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Yardbomb posted:Which can also kill you incredibly easily. Well that was certainly what Fiz meant, you cracked that code but good.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:34
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Yardbomb posted:Which can also kill you incredibly easily. They could have tased or tackled them.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:35
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mdemone posted:Well that was certainly what Fiz meant, you cracked that code but good. Well I couldn't tell if it was that or they were saying "If it was that serious they could've also just tried disabling them", because a lot of people do that and think shots to the arm or leg aren't also serious, so it's just hard to tell sometimes. And to the earlier question I did watch the video, I wasn't gonna comment without that first.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:37
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BrandorKP posted:Right and this is the systemic flaw that makes them dumb. Instead of actually having a whole systems level understanding of the ship they just have lists of meaningless competences that are seen as mere hoops to jump through. I have long hoped the same thing and whole heartedly agree. It's just a far superior method of handling modern, multi-purpose ships and the development pipelines - would probably lead to higher retention as well. Boon fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 03:38
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Yardbomb posted:Which can also kill you incredibly easily. That's what some of you hoity internet fuckers said about hip shots too but SCALISE IS STILL BREATHING
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Sep 19, 2017 03:39
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i have news on the future of the democratic party: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CDfhFfKSohc
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Sep 19, 2017 03:39
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Why do cops even have tasers and mace and physical restraint training and and and Or just get back in the fuckin car where the crazy can't get you when they get close!
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Sep 19, 2017 03:40
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i am harry posted:That's what some of you hoity internet fuckers said about hip shots too but SCALISE IS STILL BREATHING Unfortunately the GOP have mastered the dark arts and many can only be killed when their phylactery is destroyed.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:41
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Boon posted:- would probably lead to higher retention as well. I think it would. But their way of thinking combined with up or out chases the people who might eventually make those types of changes off. I mean I got the gently caress out as soon as I could.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:48
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bird cooch posted:Or just get back in the fuckin car where the crazy can't get you when they get close! You want people to think they're pussies? What kinda man are you?
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Sep 19, 2017 03:50
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Condiv posted:who's gonna hollow them out? the fbi that loves the right wing so much they let them camp out in a government building for a month or two? the same people who'll loving abolish law enforcement officers in Hellblazer's hypothetical, presumably to make this marginally more constructive, are there any solutions you would like to propose? I'm on board with, for example, in roughly escalating order of improbability: - universal bodycams --- with harsh punishments for loving with 'em - sane conflict and deescalation training - non-cop ridealong personnel, preferably mental health oriented, a few days ago someone noted that Denver has a really good program like this - revamp of the hiring processes - i dunno, communist indoctrination of the entire command structure of every police force from NYC to Hearne, Texas Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 03:52
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QuoProQuid posted:i have news on the future of the democratic party: 
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Sep 19, 2017 04:10
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QuoProQuid posted:i have news on the future of the democratic party: this is so goodbad
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Sep 19, 2017 04:16
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theflyingorc posted:this is so goodbad had to have been crossposted from the schadenfreude thread
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Sep 19, 2017 04:20
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BrandorKP posted:I will not disagree that it is loving expensive to maintain the Navy. But the Navy being dumb makes it more expensive than it needs to be. This is absolutely true, and applicable to all of the DoD. The way IT programs especially have been developed and managed is abysmal and is why costs are skyrocketing while performance is not getting much better. The mindset around IT is awful, and only starting to get in line with modern practices. But the problem is, you don't actually fix that by just cutting budgets. Cutting budgets just leads to turning off development and fixes so that money can be spent on immediate maintenance, which is terrible for the long term, but nobody in government is actually accountable in the long term. If you want to fix things, you actually spend more money, because you need to develop new practices, new training, have expert identify potential fixes and then invest to follow through. Edit: Xae posted:http://www.npr.org/2017/09/07/549117911/navy-officials-examine-training-procedures-after-ship-accidents Right. Always, always, always, the first thing cut in the government is training, because the disasters caused by insufficient training won't hit you this year, so you cut the training budget to maintain current performance at the cost of disastrous future performance. Also, maybe you get lucky and enough OJT and osmosis happens that nobody accidentally bombs a hospital because they hosed up something that they should have been trained on. skeleton warrior fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 04:42
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QuoProQuid posted:i have news on the future of the democratic party: There are NINE Dems in that race. Gotta stand out somehow. skeleton warrior posted:This is absolutely true, and applicable to all of the DoD. The way IT programs especially have been developed and managed is abysmal and is why costs are skyrocketing while performance is not getting much better. The mindset around IT is awful, and only starting to get in line with modern practices. Step one is to stop contracting out everything IT-related under the sun to the lowest bidder. You wind up having to deal with 5 different teams to handle one issue, and the folks on those teams change as the underbidders try to make their money entirely through downward salary pressure.
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Sep 19, 2017 04:50
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Jackson Taus posted:Step one is to stop contracting out everything IT-related under the sun to the lowest bidder. You wind up having to deal with 5 different teams to handle one issue, and the folks on those teams change as the underbidders try to make their money entirely through downward salary pressure. I certainly think that would help, but again, if you're not just taking the lowest bidder, then you're spending more money. Other major actions that need to happen are a complete re-working of how we deal with intellectual/property rights of the hired contractors; complete overhaul in policy and approach to IT acquisition; and major changes and fixes in how programs are budgeted and made auditable for how they're actually allocating money (DoD is especially terrible at this, and DIA is a giant cesspool of shady transactions designed to avoid answering questions about how poorly led they are).
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Sep 19, 2017 05:01
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RandomBlue posted:Do you have a pile of terrible posts you just pick and chose from or do voices whisper them to you while you sleep? Most arguments in support of expanding funding for the military basically boil down to "Let's buy more pew pews, we need more pew pews so we can kill more brown people. There are scary brown we haven't killed enough of yet. Pew pew."
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Sep 19, 2017 05:01
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GreyjoyBastard posted:the same people who'll loving abolish law enforcement officers in Hellblazer's hypothetical, presumably Campaign Zero, loosely associated with BLM, focuses specifically on constructive solutions to the problem of violent policing. They have a good list here: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/#solutionsoverview It's a very worthwhile organization to support.
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Sep 19, 2017 05:06
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Dapper_Swindler posted:college cops are barely cops. its mostly glorified mall cops unless its a ivy league school. Georgia Tech police is it's own department; they're real cops no different from the Atlanta police force. And while it sucks to make someone else responsible for your death, no one was forcing this cops hand. This wasn't someone running at him with a loaded gun or a bomb strapped to his chest. He had other options; he just chose not to take them because shoot-first is just instinct at this point.
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Sep 19, 2017 06:04
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there wolf posted:Georgia Tech police is it's own department; they're real cops no different from the Atlanta police force. And while it sucks to make someone else responsible for your death, no one was forcing this cops hand. This wasn't someone running at him with a loaded gun or a bomb strapped to his chest. He had other options; he just chose not to take them because shoot-first is just instinct at this point. Actually, what I saw was that they were reported to police as having both a khife and a gun and that's the premise the cops were operating under. They didn't know he only had a knife until after. Shooting a guy you think is coming at you with a gun is at least more justifiable. Still doesn't make it right, still should have used non-lethal force first - but they thought they were in more potential danger than they actually were, which changes things a bit.
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Sep 19, 2017 06:07
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They were also, at worst, shuffling slowly at the officers. The cops had so much time to react it's embarrassing that anyone would even consider their lives to have been been in danger. A cactus could have evaded that kid.
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Sep 19, 2017 06:11
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Campaign Zero, loosely associated with BLM, focuses specifically on constructive solutions to the problem of violent policing. They have a good list here: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/#solutionsoverview I've heard of them! I'll read up, thanks.  I love so many bits of the BLM constellation that I've heard about, almost all of which I've read about for maybe thirty seconds each.Edit: I'll have to have a good solid think about the police union contracts. It's a standard problem with the cops (and prison guards): I'm extremely strongly pro-union, but poo poo gets loving weird when the employees are in positions of societal authority. The details look mostly smart though. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 06:14
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I've heard of them! I'll read up, thanks. The union issue is tough. I'm torn between saying that public-service employees need strong union protections in general versus the idea that public service employees should really be as transparent as possible even if it places them under greater pressure, especially in policing. In any case, police unions at this point are only interested in getting their guys out of trouble, they promote the worst instincts of the police force and they're virulently racist and atavistic. In any case, I see most of the Operation Zero provisions as a minimum. Perhaps cops, by their very nature as judge, jury and executioner don't deserve a union at all.
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Sep 19, 2017 06:25
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Should just not have cops imo
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Sep 19, 2017 06:34
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Your Parents posted:Should just not have cops imo 
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Sep 19, 2017 06:37
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Your Parents posted:Should just not have cops imo glhf
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Sep 19, 2017 06:57
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Pembroke Fuse posted:The union issue is tough. I'm torn between saying that public-service employees need strong union protections in general versus the idea that public service employees should really be as transparent as possible even if it places them under greater pressure, especially in policing. In any case, police unions at this point are only interested in getting their guys out of trouble, they promote the worst instincts of the police force and they're virulently racist and atavistic. In any case, I see most of the Operation Zero provisions as a minimum. Perhaps cops, by their very nature as judge, jury and executioner don't deserve a union at all. cops need a union for workplace issues that is barred from being involved in cop criminal behavior at all
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Sep 19, 2017 07:16
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Jazerus posted:cops need a union for workplace issues that is barred from being involved in cop criminal behavior at all Department receives complaints about Officer A that do not (for one reason or another) result in civil or criminal negative impacts on him or the department. Department reviews his performance and denies him a promotion / transfers him to an undesirable position that he does not desire. The union should be involved in this: Y/N? Relatedly, some of the Project Zero propositions are related to stuff like "officer gets paid time off or desk duty after a major malfeasance charge". That's totally the sort of thing that a normal union would and should be fighting for. poo poo's weird and complicated.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:25
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I'm perfectly ok with putting any cop who shoots someone on paid leave regardless of reason. They loving shot someone for fucks sake they shouldn't be expected to work. I don't want some cop who just may have murdered someone on patrol protecting white people. Now actually investigating why someone got gunned downs another story.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:41
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Mustached Demon posted:I'm perfectly ok with putting any cop who shoots someone on paid leave regardless of reason. They loving shot someone for fucks sake they shouldn't be expected to work. I don't want some cop who just may have murdered someone on patrol protecting white people. I believe the Campaign Zero position is "allow them to get nailed with unpaid suspension if, I dunno, the department feels like it, rather than requiring paid leave / paid desk duty". I'm hesitant. any department that keeps them on patrol is obviously malfeasant right now, today
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Sep 19, 2017 07:46
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