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22 Eargesplitten posted:Without doxxing myself too much, there's a reason a half dozen senior management heads have rolled since my manager and I started (about a week apart). You're all Highlanders?! 
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Sep 27, 2017 17:31
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A Pinball Wizard posted:Wasn't joking, I know that different departments can have very different cultures, but if upper management is content to let half the company gently caress up that badly it's a miracle you have a boss who isn't equally terrible. "Shipping a product can often take precedence over doing it the "right" way. This is such a prevalent practice that it has a name: Technical Debt." gently caress you gently caress you gently caress yooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuu It's prevalent enough to have a BAD name. To call out BAD practices. It's BAD you gently caress! Boy i'm getting irrationally angry at this.
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Sep 27, 2017 17:47
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An email from my coworker, to a customer, describing a line he saw in an excerpt of a log file from our server, which I had sent to the customer about 30 minutes prior, which has nothing to do with the problem the customer is having.quote:Hello [customer] anthonypants fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 21:29
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Judge Schnoopy posted:"Shipping a product can often take precedence over doing it the "right" way. This is such a prevalent practice that it has a name: Technical Debt." Wait, are you saying that if push comes to shove and you have to choose between the "right" way vs delaying a product you will say "gently caress the product"?
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Sep 27, 2017 21:36
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If you do it the right way from the start following proper coding practice won't delay your release.
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Sep 27, 2017 21:39
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Judge Schnoopy posted:"Shipping a product can often take precedence over doing it the "right" way. This is such a prevalent practice that it has a name: Technical Debt." At least they're calling it by the proper "this is a bad thing" term instead of something fancy and agile sounding that'll make people thing it's a valid thing to aim for to begin with. I do get what they're going for, though, because there are different valid approaches that really do vary by company-- is it more important to have bleeding edge features available to your clients from the word go, or do your clients rely on slow, long, and very solid support cycles? Do you eat your own dogfood internally, and if so, is it more important to maintain parity with what you're delivering externally or to test upcoming features before they go out to the public? And so on, and so forth. I'm kind of getting experience in both worlds where I'm working now, because our "customer facing" stuff is game related and "showing them what we're working on" is more important than "having something guaranteed to work and be backwards compatible" right now; but our internal payments and billing stuff is on a far more heavily restricted and vetted deploy cycle for obvious reasons. Volguus posted:Wait, are you saying that if push comes to shove and you have to choose between the "right" way vs delaying a product you will say "gently caress the product"? It takes guts to make that call but sometimes it's the right call to make, so Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 21:56
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My issue is that spouting that ideology as principle normalizes technical debt as a byproduct of timely releases. A well planned dev cycle should be released on time without technical debt. Yes, sometimes it's a necessary evil, but if it's a prevalent, regular occurrence you have institutional issues. All technical debt should be addressed with cost / benefit analysis, not just a shrug of the shoulders an a "welp they even have a common phrase for this, no biggie!"
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Sep 27, 2017 22:29
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Collateral Damage posted:If you do it the right way from the start following proper coding practice won't delay your release. Sometimes timelines suck, and sometimes those timelines, set by people in the business who could really give a gently caress how your family life is doing, result in some pretty tough choices being made as to which bugs we can live with.
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Sep 27, 2017 22:42
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The CEO abandoned his large corner office months ago, and it's been mostly empty all this time. Bill was tasked with getting workstations in there. He even spent money on a space planner. Today the workstations finally arrived. The furniture vendor installed everything and left. Before we can even get to the fundamental problem that Bill never talked to me about the space plan and made no allowances for power or networking a bigger issue arose: The CEO returned from his vacation and began expressing opinions about the new workstations. Since Bill is a dumb idiot fucker this has triggered him running around in a lather, setting off a cascade of furniture moves all across our office. He's moving chairs, tables, credenzas, cabinets... you name it he's going back and forth with this poo poo on a dolly. Furniture is now scattered hither, thither and yon as he's unable to complete a thought or task without becoming distracted. The CEO comes to my office and apropos of nothing asks me who has access to his mailbox and demands that they all be removed immediately. He steps back into the corridor and gazes into Bill's office. He finally realizes that over the last six months as executives have resigned or been fired Bill has been cherry-picking their furniture for his own office. There's a nice leather couch in there, a decorative glass coffee table, a stylish cabinet that's more like an armoire. CEO: Why the gently caress is he moving all this furniture around? To put it in his office? What the gently caress is going on? Before I can answer he stomps away, then stomps right back and says "Leave my mail the way it is!" then walks away again. I could hear him mutter "The lunatics are running the asylum!" It's been maybe three hours since the workstations were installed and Bill is still dollying furniture around like a mad bastard. I'm keeping clear of this mess until they ask to start setting up staff at those workstations that aren't anywhere near a power outlet or network port. I'm happy to string extension cords around the thousands of dollars of misconfigured workstations.
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Sep 27, 2017 22:54
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Collateral Damage posted:If you do it the right way from the start following proper coding practice won't delay your release. That's true, when the release date is reasonable (something that you and the client agreed upon, you had all the information upfront and nothing changes between now and the release date). As we all live in the real world, reasonable release dates are more often than not non-existent. Sometimes is bad project management, sometimes the execs are incompetent assholes, sometimes the client decided that gravity no longer attracts but instead repels objects, and so on and so forth. Reality has a way of showing it's ugly teeth, no matter how good of a developer are you. Yes, employing bad practices consistently, refusing to change when shown better, using that stack overflow post as an excuse for your lovely coding is a problem. But it is a different problem. Standing up to your principles is wonderful, as long as you have something to put on the table at the end of the day. Luckily, in our line of work, nowadays is relatively easy to be principled and have a job (they're on every corner, just need to look). Judge Schnoopy posted:My issue is that spouting that ideology as principle normalizes technical debt as a byproduct of timely releases. It does normalize it. Which is why only incompetent developers use that as an excuse for their poor coding. It is important to notice them, see if you can avoid them/their team and decide if it's worth taking them on or just bailing out. Being confrontational is not always the best course of action.
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Sep 27, 2017 23:14
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Dick Trauma posted:It's been maybe three hours since the workstations were installed and Bill is still dollying furniture around like a mad bastard. I'm keeping clear of this mess until they ask to start setting up staff at those workstations that aren't anywhere near a power outlet or network port. I'm happy to string extension cords around the thousands of dollars of misconfigured workstations. Don't forget to expense yourself a gaffgun before all the money's gone 
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Sep 28, 2017 00:13
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Dick Trauma posted:I could hear him mutter "The lunatics are running the asylum!" He's not wrong !
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Sep 28, 2017 00:18
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Don't forget to expense yourself a gaffgun before all the money's gone OH man, I would never stop laying down hazard tape. Floors, walls, ceilings, hazard tape everywhere!
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Sep 28, 2017 00:57
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Dick Trauma posted:OH man, I would never stop laying down hazard tape. Floors, walls, ceilings, hazard tape everywhere! Add a pallet of hazard tape.
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Sep 28, 2017 01:01
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Dick Trauma posted:OH man, I would never stop laying down hazard tape. Floors, walls, ceilings, hazard tape everywhere! Just do something like this around your office to subconsciously dissuade people from coming near it 
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Sep 28, 2017 01:47
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My career is already a black hole.
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Sep 28, 2017 02:51
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The Something Awful Forums > SHSC > More poo poo that pisses you off: My career is already a black hole. Semi related: one of the product managers has started using } instead of > when documenting workflows. Like Start } Control Panel } Credential Manager. I know it shouldn't, but it really drives me nuts.
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Sep 28, 2017 03:16
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A Pinball Wizard posted:The Something Awful Forums > SHSC > More poo poo that pisses you off: My career is already a black hole. Unclosed braces disturb me on a fundamental level.
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Sep 28, 2017 03:20
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Unclosed braces disturb me on a fundamental level. 
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Sep 28, 2017 04:03
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I love how programming is always represented by a massive wall of unreadable text, preferably with as many mathematical functions as possible. I guess  just doesn't have the same ring to it
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Sep 28, 2017 04:38
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I love how programming is always represented by a massive wall of unreadable text, preferably with as many mathematical functions as possible. The lobby of our main building has some fancy ~computers~ art on it that includes some super technical code...that's just assigning the months of the year to an array in JS or something. I think there's even something wrong with it, I'll try and remember to get a picture.
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Sep 28, 2017 04:53
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I love how programming is always represented by a massive wall of unreadable text, preferably with as many mathematical functions as possible. What I want to know is why it's always PHP  get these stock photographers some perl golf
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Sep 28, 2017 04:54
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There's people out there that make a hobby of finding the GitHub repo that a source code stock photo came from.
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Sep 28, 2017 05:06
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xzzy posted:There's people out there that make a hobby of finding the GitHub repo that a source code stock photo came from. 
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Sep 28, 2017 05:11
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:More fun for me is trying to figure out what it's doing. That wall of PHP above is so nonsensical that the best I can tell it's just arbitrarily manipulating a string. It's JavaScript
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Sep 28, 2017 05:21
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The Fool posted:It's JavaScript
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Sep 28, 2017 05:31
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Sep 28, 2017 06:47
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A Pinball Wizard posted:The Something Awful Forums > SHSC > More poo poo that pisses you off: My career is already a black hole. I tend to use "->" because I find it makes it more readable. The Something Awful Forums -> SHSC -> More poo poo that pisses you off
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Sep 28, 2017 06:49
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Thanatosian posted:I tend to use "->" because I find it makes it more readable. Internal documents get The Something Awful Forums 8==D SHSC 8==D More poo poo that pisses you off because I am a 12 year old trapped in a 34 year old's body and lovely job.
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Sep 28, 2017 07:52
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You ain't the only one '->' does irrationally annoy me though because most of the time the '-' doesn't quite line up with the '>'
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Sep 28, 2017 08:13
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Antioch posted:Internal documents get Oh, it's a couple of rocketships!
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Sep 28, 2017 08:30
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Our technical documentation standards say to use commas. Start, all programs, accessories, command prompt. I asked why when the entire rest of the industry uses arrows and got called a techbro.
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Sep 28, 2017 12:23
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carry on then posted:The lobby of our main building has some fancy ~computers~ art on it that includes some super technical code...that's just assigning the months of the year to an array in JS or something. I think there's even something wrong with it, I'll try and remember to get a picture. We have one stairwell full of "computer art" that's just ones and zeroes with gradients and poo poo all over. BINARY!
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Sep 28, 2017 12:34
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Who in the world
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Sep 28, 2017 12:42
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Actuarial Fables posted:Who in the world Fat person who is probably washing it down with a 44oz gas station fountain drink
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Sep 28, 2017 13:13
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Volguus posted:That's true, when the release date is reasonable (something that you and the client agreed upon, you had all the information upfront and nothing changes between now and the release date). As we all live in the real world, reasonable release dates are more often than not non-existent. Sometimes is bad project management, sometimes the execs are incompetent assholes, sometimes the client decided that gravity no longer attracts but instead repels objects, and so on and so forth. Reality has a way of showing it's ugly teeth, no matter how good of a developer are you. Pretty much this. Being able to recognize and quantify the technical debt means that you can spend time making the point that you need to spend some time paying it down before wiring up some new change, because it's cheaper for the company in the long run. For reference, I made a quick and dirty change recently to fix an issue where due to an unforeseen and infrequent occurrence (which we had not thought to test for) the user's app would crash. While infrequent, over a large number of users using the app all day that number adds up to A Lot Of Daily Crashes. Doing it The Right Way would take longer than a quick hack, and users would continue to have a poor experience while I perfected my palace of proper programming paradigms. The important thing is that everyone knows that this hack is tech debt now, and needs to be fixed before something related to it goes even worse. I'm fortunate enough to work in a company and on a team where tech debt is recognized as something that actually needs to be addressed, where practicable, and the benefits weighed. If you think this is an uncommon, terrible occurrence, take a look at the source of your favorite program, and search for "Todo", "hack", "fixme", "XXX", "later", etc. Look at the issue tracker, and look at what known issues are there months or even years later.
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Sep 28, 2017 14:38
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Bob Morales posted:Fat person who is probably washing it down with a 44oz gas station fountain drink Please, fat people don't make popcorn first thing in the morning. If we're hitting the gas station we're getting a couple of those hours-old hot dogs and a small bag of chips (gotta watch the figure!)
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Sep 28, 2017 15:55
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Honestly I have never understood what makes food okay to eat at 5pm and not 7am. Bacon and eggs are great for dinner and I can see nothing wrong with eating left over spaghetti for breakfast. gently caress my logical brain.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:02
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nielsm posted:We have one stairwell full of "computer art" that's just ones and zeroes with gradients and poo poo all over. BINARY! Here it is. It's just writing the date. 
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Sep 28, 2017 16:02
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Because we're all primates that have been programmed by habits we inherited from our parents and are enslaved to it.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:03
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