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Oct 1, 2017 17:03
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Welcome to the
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Oct 1, 2017 17:03
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tuo posted:I'm actually perplexed I am not on his ignore list, as I got the last two epic meltdowns out of him (the second with major help from tophat!), and he said he put me in ignore. He still reads everyone he has on ignore. I've been on it since forever, to the point where he threatened to ignore anyone who quoted me, and he's quoted me a few times. Derek is a thin-skinned bully. It's why he keeps resorting to doxxing, he has nowhere else to go.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:04
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[quote="“Alchenar”" post="“476944502”"] Out of idle curiosity, what button do you press to exit a Derek Smart game? [/quote] There's a refund option under the support tab of your steam account.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:04
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lolquote:Lumberyard is still in its early days
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Oct 1, 2017 17:04
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boop
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Oct 1, 2017 17:06
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peter gabriel posted:I am currently pressing escape to quit the thread but nothing is happening maybe Derek is right once more pictured: the Star Citizen thread 
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Oct 1, 2017 17:07
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TheAgent posted:I thought the titanic was pretty fair with her review of UC. it's her own user experience and was pretty nice to derek overall Yeah I think that's where I've gone "you know what, gently caress entertaining Derek's illusions of grandeur". If you're going to be a loving shithead about well presented criticism, you're just being an rear end. Funny thing is, I'm probably Derek's target market. I'm the kind of person who will suffer through Dwarf Fortress's sub-optimal control scheme because I love complexity in my simulation games. (Funnily enough, hitting ESC in DF - which is notorious and practically a meme reference for 'game with most user unfriendly control scheme' - brings up a menu allowing the user to exit the current game.  ). I read up on all the shortcut keys I need to play Kerbal Space Program with some degree of proficiency. Paradox games have some of the largest amounts of playtime in my Steam list. I love the poo poo out of the X series.The thing is, all of those games get the *basic control affordances* right, even if they require you to go read up on some of the more obscure functions. If you're making even the basic functionality (... like how to quit the game) something I have to go read up on, the game better be the second coming of christ. edit: v--- I enjoyed Mordheim a whole bunch, but I played it on PC. Those are some terrible UX/UI decisions for controllers 
Mattjpwns fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 17:12
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Derek "people buy my game so it must be good" is Citizen Backer thinking. You are meant to be smarter than that. And the fact that your UI decisions are covered in a manual doesn't excuse bad ones. Like, I get that you've found a niche for your games and congratulations on that. But come on, as a creator you really ought to be constantly thinking about how you could make it better. Or, if you are going to do something that deviates from modern UI norms, have the intellectual honesty to admit this is what you're doing, that it's a tradeoff and that it's one that's worth making for (SOME REASON). Instead of telling a boat to read a PDF. Decent games can have bad menu design. Maybe your game does too. Here, since this has been bugging me and bagging on games menus is briefly on topic, I'd like to rant about Mordheim City of the Damned for a moment. Mordheim is an adaptation of a Warhammer skirmish game. It's like XCOM with less lethality but more long term injuries. It's like Necromunda with swords. It's like Darkest Dungeon on a 3D map. It's a slow grindy game that feels like a board game and is pretty fun. Here's the Warband management screen on the Xbox.  Right now I have the leader with the big hat selected. You can see he is highlighted. LB & RB cycle between the characters. What button would you press to select the gentleman in white with the big fuckoff staff? If you answered LB you are wrong. If you answered RB, you are wrong too. The answer is RB twice. Because we aren't looking at the figures when we cycle, we are looking at that little line of icons on the bottom. OK fine. That's kind of unintuitive but we can learn the icons. Cool. Now I'll just go into the character screens and make a change to one of my guys.  Once again, we've got the guy in white with the big gently caress off staff. RB & LB cycle. What do you press to get back to the leader and make a change? Did you guess LB twice? WRONG. See the warband in THIS interface is ordered by: Chronology (according to who you hired in what order). Since hero slots like the one our guy with the staff is in unlock over time, you almost certainly didn't hire him right after you hired the leader and the other hero. And since characters regularly die, get injured and so put out of rotation, go for training and so on, the order of hiring is more or less random once you are into the game. I like Mordheim. It appeals to my broke brained desires to tediously level up characters, risk it all in combat, and often get shoved down only to have to start over with some of them. It's a 'hardcore' game. It tells you so right when you start playing. It's meant to be brutal and unforgiving. It's fun and stressful. But I will never defend the menu system. I have lost so much time to cycling through and trying to keep it straight in my head. I am pretty sure that this isn't part of the hardcoreness that the developers were selling. I'm pretty sure they just didn't think the UI through. Derek, maybe your game is like that. doingitwrong fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 17:12
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ESC bringing up the menu is something akin to the absolutely most well-established convention in PC gaming. I can't think of a single professionally developed (indie or not) game released in a very long time that didn't follow it. Even the vast majority of asset flips and steam sewageware will let you ESC your way out of them. Sure, most games will let you rebind the keys, but that doesn't mean there aren't conventions for default keys (WASD for move, E for use and spacebar for jump are some other conventions, though they're not universal). I mean sure, as a developer you're free to choose to break with convention, but I really don't see why you would do that in this particular case. All it does is force your players to re-learn a basic interface feature for no reason.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:15
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Every time I use a sticky bomb in GTA5 I have to Google which key it is to detonate it so I don't think I am Derek's target audience Edit: It's G 
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Oct 1, 2017 17:15
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I have often thought that it would be a fun gimmick to review games only on the basis of their UI and menus.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:16
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Anybody that wants to try one of Derek's "games", stick around. We're about to see magnanimous Derek reward people he deems worthy. Sometimes it's him quoting your post and adding a smiley, sometimes it's a code for one of his games. But nothing too flashy, you still need to buy TAK or whatever he calls it.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:17
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As someone who rebinds all of my key functions in every game to a complex series of patterned inputs using the two thumb buttons on my mouse, let me tell you why UC is actually quite intuitive.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:22
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Variable 5 posted:Derek is a thin-skinned bully. Phwooaaah!
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Oct 1, 2017 17:24
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Derek Smarts Chess Commander 4000 Step 1: Plug in steering wheel
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Oct 1, 2017 17:25
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Wiz posted:ESC bringing up the menu is something akin to the absolutely most well-established convention in PC gaming. I can't think of a single professionally developed (indie or not) game released in a very long time that didn't follow it. Even the vast majority of asset flips and steam sewageware will let you ESC your way out of them. Sure, most games will let you rebind the keys, but that doesn't mean there aren't conventions for default keys (WASD for move, E for use and spacebar for jump are some other conventions, though they're not universal). 
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Oct 1, 2017 17:27
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hmm "king to e 6" *slowly releases left clutch, zips the e-brake, taps brake, taps gas, fully release left clutch, turn wheel 90 degrees, hit right clutch, fully extend e-brake, slam gas* KNIGHT TO QUEEN 6 CONFIRMED actually a steering wheel chess game would be awesome as hell
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Oct 1, 2017 17:28
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Wiz, could you please also expain to Nintendo which button is for "next/yes" and which is for "no/gently caress you"? tia!
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Oct 1, 2017 17:28
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Like, seriously, one of the things that we have really learned at Paradox these last few years is just how many people are willing to learn how to play complex games if you just try to make them at least a little bit accessible. The whole division of games into 'casual' and 'hardcore' is largely nonsense - sure there are people who will only ever play the spergiest of WW2 sims and people who will only ever play candy crush, but there's a huge audience for deep, complex games that don't require the player to spend their first few hours locked in mortal combat with the user interface. Playing a game is supposed to be entertaining, or at least engrossing, not a test of endurance to prove your skill at overcoming bad UI design.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:29
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TheAgent posted:hmm "king to e 6" I can't wait to waste three evenings tuning my FFB to it because I forgot my wheel base uses inverted inputs!
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Oct 1, 2017 17:29
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I think Derek has never reached the realization that it can be incredibly relieving to be able to admit something isn't quite right, or is atypical. I learned this long ago doing low budget bodge jobs for a family friend who owned rental units. Just accept you produced something functional, with rough edges, and that's the way it is. It's super stressful to always defend how wonderful you did something. Being able to accept you did something imperfectly, but to a morally acceptable level, is a life lesson that nobody teaches you. That's not to say you shouldn't have pride in great workmanship, just that nobody can do everything perfect, and you shouldn't feel a need to defend your imperfection.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:31
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Derek Smart Racing Simulator 5000 Step 1: Open chess set
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Oct 1, 2017 17:32
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Wiz posted:Like, seriously, one of the things that we have really learned at Paradox these last few years is just how many people are willing to learn how to play complex games if you just try to make them at least a little bit accessible. The whole division of games into 'casual' and 'hardcore' is largely nonsense - sure there are people who will only ever play the spergiest of WW2 sims and people who will only ever play candy crush, but there's a huge audience for deep, complex games that don't require the player to spend their first few hours locked in mortal combat with the user interface. Playing a game is supposed to be entertaining, or at least engrossing, not a test of endurance to prove your skill at overcoming bad UI design.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:33
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Wiz posted:Like, seriously, one of the things that we have really learned at Paradox these last few years is just how many people are willing to learn how to play complex games if you just try to make them at least a little bit accessible. The whole division of games into 'casual' and 'hardcore' is largely nonsense - sure there are people who will only ever play the spergiest of WW2 sims and people who will only ever play candy crush, but there's a huge audience for deep, complex games that don't require the player to spend their first few hours locked in mortal combat with the user interface. Playing a game is supposed to be entertaining, or at least engrossing, not a test of endurance to prove your skill at overcoming bad UI design. Fun fact: when I came here to laugh at CIG, I actually reinstalled Elite 2 to make a decent screenshot for an avatar. I then remembered how inaccessable that game is nowadays, and simply said "gently caress you, I'll get one from GIS'. I played the game again the following day, and it took me about an hour to get into the whole thing again, but then enough memory cells in my brain activated to get to things. This was a great reminder of how accessible games are nowadays, and how short my attention span has grown on some games. Imo, gamedevs are (mostly) doing a loving great job today that you can hop in basically any game and play it right away or after a short tutorial, even the more complex ones. I don't wanna know how much time goes into good tutorial missions/introductions to complex games, because they work very well most of the time, but we actually take them for granted now.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:35
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Alchenar posted:Out of idle curiosity, what button do you press to exit a Derek Smart game? The trigger, it's the only way out of the embarrassment of buying a Derek Smart game.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:35
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Star Citizen : Press ALT + Q to remap your ESC key.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:37
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Derek is literally Crobbler's doppelgänger. He's got more raw intelligence but they're equally narcissistic clowns with no self-awareness. The SC saga is hilarious on so many levels it's like performance art.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:40
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TheAgent posted:This would be me. As long as the controls stay consistent (making them easy to remember) and their complexities are slowly brought into gameplay, I can spend some time with the more sim-level games, such as Stellaris. If I'm thrown to the great control spacewolves with a cheer of "RTFM!" I'm not going to put much time in, as I'll get quickly frustrated and quit. Which I think is entirely fair, because ultimately accessibility is a choice the developer makes in where to prioritize their resources. There's certainly limits on how accessible you can make some games (our historical games kind of suffer from throwing you headfirst into the geopolitical shark-tank, while Stellaris has a much calmer opening phase and gradually phases in the complexity) but you certainly can work within the bounds of what you have, and if the developer wasn't willing to put in that effort you certainly have no obligation to either. For a personal example, I like to compare Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld. Both are complex. random-focused and unforgiving games, and Rimworld doesn't exactly have a great interface, but it puts in *some* effort towards making new players not immediately bounce off the game, and has enjoyed real commercial success while DF can never grow beyond being a niche cult classic because it... really does not. Also: Nobody reads manuals, and tutorials that aren't smoothly integrated into gameplay or try to force the player to learn everything at once are largely worthless. Wiz fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 17:43
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XK posted:I like Derek, he's great, but needs more chill. I'm fine actually. The thing is that everyone has an opinion. It's great and all. But God forbid if someone directs that opinion at you, and you try to defend against it. I have spent 30 years in this industry, and making the games I want to make. Nothing's changed, except the rear end-clowns who keep attacking me and my "bad" games, just got older. The others who were born yesterday, aren't even smart enough to have an opinion on it, but that doesn't prevent them from having one anyway. Games, like all forms of art, are subjective. You either like my games, or you don't. It makes NO difference to me. But that stance somehow comes as a shock to those who are of the opinion that I actually give a poo poo what they think. Questioning why I did something one way, is no more objective, than complaining about why a book to film adaptation sux balls. I mean, I'm loving arguing the merits of a default key binding - which can be changed - and some wanker whose claim to fame or anything remotely construed to be an act of note, is taking out the garbage, seeks to tell me that a key binding is incorrect because - loving lol - it's not standard. I mean, seriously.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:43
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Laopooh posted:Derek is literally Crobbler's doppelgänger. He's got more raw intelligence but they're equally narcissistic clowns with no self-awareness. Yeah, but one is known for games that were rather well perceived at some time, the other not so much....but that's okay, because the other only targets a small niche, so it's perfectly fine and he doesn't have to go around the internet ten years later to tell everyone
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Oct 1, 2017 17:44
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D_Smart posted:I'm fine actually. That is one of the best posts from you, seriously. E: all but the last paragraph
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Oct 1, 2017 17:47
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D_Smart posted:I'm fine actually. There's a vast difference between constructive criticism like 'I don't think it's a good idea to use a nonstandard keybinding because it will confuse new players' and non-constructive criticism like 'Everything you do is poo poo'. I get plenty of both, and I know it's hella frustrating sometimes when you feel like there's people out there who are just so invested into hating on everything you do, but that doesn't mean all criticism is wrong or comes from a bad place. A lot of it comes from a genuine desire to want to make a game they either like or want to try and like better. Understanding and being able to accept constructive criticism will make anyone, no matter how much experience they have, better at their job.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:49
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D_Smart posted:I'm fine actually. You sure are defensive for not caring. You just called everyone that disagrees with you an idiot, and I guess called theagent a garbage man?
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Oct 1, 2017 17:49
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Wow, this has become like a Shitizen thread.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:51
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lol what is even happening
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Oct 1, 2017 17:51
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I hope the Avacados get the SC 3.0 build soon. Everyone piling onto Uncle D might hurt his feelings
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Oct 1, 2017 17:51
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reverend crabhands posted:Wow, this has become like a Shitizen thread. Welcome to the double reverse-inverse troll thread
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Oct 1, 2017 17:52
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On a lighter note I put an easter egg for you guys into the latest Stellaris update and I'm a bit disappointed that nobody has found it yet. 
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Oct 1, 2017 17:54
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Mattjpwns posted:So you can't actually find any, because you're so wrong it hurts. Figures. This self-own, complete with an annotated picture, should go down as history. Well done. You loving proved my point, you fool. Here, I'm going to use words so as not to confuse you any further. quote:In most computer games, the escape key is used as a pause button and/or as a way to bring up the in-game menu, usually containing ways to exit the program. Well gee Sherlock, as I stated earlier, the ESC brings up the Team Orders Menu, it's contextual. And it pauses (which isn't really paused, but no point in explaining that) the game at the same time. You can't "exit the program" from that menu because 1) it's contextual 2) as a result of #1, there is a dedicated key, ALT+Q key combo for that. And let me explain WHY I opted to use a dedicated 2-key combo to quit the game: It runs on a highly sophisticated game OS that I built, with a real-time sensitive neural net. So any accidental exits from the game - as will happen with an ESC key - will immediately terminate everything, thus losing your progress. So the 2-key combat, plus the Y|N prompt that it generates, serves to ensure that you are about to do what you intended; and also serves as a "you did save the game, right?" reminder. That's also why there are TWO specific ways to save the game. The fact that I had to create a detailed KB to explain this, should be a hint. Excerpt from KB: quote:QUICK GAME SAVE (CTRL+SHIFT+G) Tell me again how the ESC is so conventional, that all games use it. I just ignored everything else that you wrote because ain't nobody got time for dat.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:55
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