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Dirk the Average posted:Would it be a good idea to lay out X winter tiles per player and have them all shown so that everyone knows what will be bid on in winter in advance? I wouldn't bother because the players choose what they auction. I would just pass the book around so individual players know what they're building towards. No need to add more to the game explanation.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:31
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| # ? May 13, 2024 14:13 |
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explaining the winter tiles also doubles as an opportunity to explain the game's iconography since there's a lot of overlap. whenever I teach the game I always explain all the tiles that are getting dealt out. the idea of just handing the rulebook to a new player and saying "look yours up" seems absolutely bizarre to me even if I personally would be okay with it.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:34
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al-azad posted:I wouldn't bother because the players choose what they auction. I would just pass the book around so individual players know what they're building towards. No need to add more to the game explanation. If players don't know what the tiles are or what they're building towards, it seems reasonable for a first game to just make it a fixed offering with full knowledge for all players. It does depend on how experienced a group is and how comfortable they are with new ideas though.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:40
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Tales of Woe posted:I've found that people who haven't played eurogames much will inevitably have trouble understanding the transport+upgrade tiles regardless of how well I explain them. I've had the exact same experience. It's worth spending some extra time on the transport/upgrade tiles to explain them in detail and show some examples.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:43
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Countblanc posted:explaining the winter tiles also doubles as an opportunity to explain the game's iconography since there's a lot of overlap. whenever I teach the game I always explain all the tiles that are getting dealt out. the idea of just handing the rulebook to a new player and saying "look yours up" seems absolutely bizarre to me even if I personally would be okay with it. For me and my friends we learn faster by playing the game and we all seem to reach a point where we get frustrated by any more explanations. Anything not critical to play I'll read on my own time and winter tiles really aren't critical to play in the first handful of turns. That said, gauge your group's experience level. I just think playing a few turns is more important than explaining something that won't be useful for an hour. e: I actually agree with the fixed offer for a first game. Set them aside face up so players know what they're building towards.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:58
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ShaneB posted:Finally ordered Keyflower you drat goons. Any advice for a teach and newbie strategy tips for our first play? Here's how I've usually taught it. Note: this way requires your players are not those kind of AP fuckers who need to know what every tile in the game does up front MAIN CONCEPTS 0. These are the rules unless a tile breaks a rule 1. On your turn you do a thing OR pass 2. The round ends when all players pass in succession - this does mean that you can come back in after a pass THINGS 0. Once someone has done a thing on a tile in a particular colour this round, that tile is LOCKED to that colour 1. BID: play 1 or more peeps from your house on your side of an unclaimed tile to bid on it. You must beat any previous bid. You can add to a previous bid. 2. USE: play peeps from your house to any tile to use the tile. first use = 1 peep 2nd=2 3rd=3. once the tile has been used 3 times (overall) , it cannot be used again this round 3. If you are outbid at a tile, you may use those peeps on your turn to do a thing. They all have to go to the same place as one thing. END OF ROUND 1. Winning bidders lose their peeps to the bag and take the tile and any peeps on it (unless it is a boat-choosey tile). The tile is added to their village and the peeps go into their house. Roads have to line up. 2. Losing bids are returned to their player's house. 3. Peeps on tiles in a village go into the house of that village's player. 4. Starting with 1st player, players pick a boat and get the stuff on it. Winners of the boat-chooser tiles override basic turn order. USE TILE ICONOGRAPHY 1. Stuff: get that stuff 2. Stuff -> Stuff: trade the first stuff for the second stuff INTERRUPTION! GETTING STUFF a. When you get GOODS they are delivered to your starting tile UNLESS it comes from your village then it stays on the tile that generated the goods. GOODS ARE THE WOODEN BARRELS. I don't remember if that's the actual name. b. Everything else goes into your house. OK CONTINUE 3. Horsey-House: Move a GOOD to an adjacent tile by road x times where x= the horsey number AND upgrade a tile for each up-arrow (that's the house icon). You must have the GOODS for an upgrade on the tile you are upgrading. 3a. for some weird reason this happens every game with new players: HORSEY-HOUSE is a tile just like EVERY OTHER TILE and you have to USE the tile just like EVERY OTHER TILE. you can use SOMEONE ELSE'S horsey-house if it is better to do so just like EVERY OTHER TILE. it is NOT a THING you can do on your turn like BID and USE. there are only 2 things: BID and USE. Horsey-house is not a THING. 4. Down arrow and some other poo poo: that just shows you what the other side of the tile has once you upgrade it. 5. Gold circle with a number: end game points WINTER Winter is different set up. Core gist of it is that you get a nice thing to aim for sitting in your hand all game, but if you don't make it, you can hold it back. Also the whole take boat tiles into your village thing. END MOST POINTS WINS. In a first game at least half your points will come from upgrading tiles don't neglect them. You can pretty much start playing now, just explain what each tile does as it comes up
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Oct 2, 2017 22:13
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PlaneGuy posted:Here's how I've usually taught it. Note: this way requires your players are not those kind of AP fuckers who need to know what every tile in the game does up front This is fantastic. Thank you.
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Oct 2, 2017 22:32
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Tales of Woe posted:The rulebook kinda sucks at teaching the game in an intuitive way, and there's some weird organizational decisions, like I think gold being a wild resource is only mentioned in the iconography section on the front page and not in the actual rules.  I've played Keyflower at least 6-8 times and never knew this and looked up the rulebook just now to confirm that. Whaaaaaaaaa
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Oct 2, 2017 22:46
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PlaneGuy posted:USE TILE ICONOGRAPHY To be clear, any colour can be used to activate the tile, but the discarded meeple must be that colour, and come from behind your screen. quote:3. Horsey-House: Move a GOOD to an adjacent tile by road x times where x= the horsey number AND upgrade a tile for each up-arrow (that's the house icon). You must have the GOODS for an upgrade on the tile you are upgrading.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:14
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PlaneGuy posted:2. USE: play peeps from your house to any tile to use the tile. first use = 1 peep 2nd=2 3rd=3. once the tile has been used 3 times (overall) , it cannot be used again this round isn't the rule that you just have to use more workers than the previous user, with a total of no more than 6 meeple on the tile? so you could bid with 3 to just lock everyone else out (since the next bid would require 4+, and that'd put the tile over the 6 maximum). if so you could probably say "USE: play peeps from your house to any tile to use the tile. you have to use more peeps than the previous person and no tile can have more than 6 people on it", that seems about as concise. unpronounceable posted:I'll add that people have no problems with this, until it comes to trading a red/blue/yellow meeple for a green one. Whenever someone sees it for the first time, there are always questions about how it works, often with people trying to use a blue to activate the tile, and then putting that meeple into the bag. yeah I see this all the time too
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Oct 2, 2017 23:27
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Countblanc posted:isn't the rule that you just have to use more workers than the previous user, with a total of no more than 6 meeple on the tile? so you could bid with 3 to just lock everyone else out (since the next bid would require 4+, and that'd put the tile over the 6 maximum). That's true, but probably unnecessary for new players. It takes some experience to understand when it is worth spending two extra meeples just to block certain players from a critical action tile. No need to explain exceptions that are usually just traps for inexperienced players.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:50
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but it isn't any more complicated to just explain it right.
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Oct 3, 2017 02:10
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Technically the 6 meeples max also has another strategy implication, which is that losing bids must be kept grouped. So it's possible that you may very well not actually want to block someone but hey, there's an empty spot in your village, and you've got a group of 3 dudes that just became available, might as well use them for something. One really annoying thing we always have to look up is how the "bid with any colour" and "use with any colour" tiles work differently. And one thing we actively gave up on figuring out, because there's all sorts of conflicting information on the internet, is the boat-scoring end of game boat. I've seen sources stating you score just one of the numbers (so 2/4/8/16 for 1/2/3/4 boats), sources stating that each number shows the value of that boat in the row (comes out to scoring 2/6/14/30 for 1/2/3/4 boats), or that *each* boat is the number corresponding to the number of boats you have (so 2/8/24/64 (!) for 1/2/3/4 boats). I've also seen conflicting statements about whether the boats actually need to be connected for scoring. Seriously, it's a great game but ugh, the edge cases.
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Oct 3, 2017 02:26
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The boats definitely have to be connected via the river to your home tile for that particular bit of scoring. The rulebook even calls it out as a strategy tip, telling you not to point roads into where the river is supposed to go.
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Oct 3, 2017 02:35
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Fellis posted:
I forget this every time including this time
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Oct 3, 2017 03:05
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WILDCARD BITCHES
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Oct 3, 2017 03:11
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You know what's also a badly written rulebook? Archipelago. I love the game and tonight was playthrough #6 or 7 but I played with a different set of people who've played it in their own group and oh boy this led to a lot of rules interpretations I didn't realize was hazy until now. #1 being the cost of activated evolution cards and paid to whom and #2 being how many resources can player #1 dictate the use of during crises and why you would ever let player #2 decide.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:19
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whose idea was it to package Leaving Earth with this wraparound sticker I have to cut? Although if I really like the game I'll consider getting a vintage NASA tin lunch box and using that for the components. Chill la Chill posted:You know what's also a badly written rulebook? Archipelago. I love the game and tonight was playthrough #6 or 7 but I played with a different set of people who've played it in their own group and oh boy this led to a lot of rules interpretations I didn't realize was hazy until now. #1 being the cost of activated evolution cards and paid to whom and #2 being how many resources can player #1 dictate the use of during crises and why you would ever let player #2 decide. This game was a nightmare to teach and everyone got upset when the current crisis cycled out at the end of the round like "WOAH WOAH HOW CAN WE PLAN FOR THE NEXT ROUND." I wanted to yell "That's what the loving turn auction you all told me was stupid is for" but I understood their frustration as the game was impossible to teach.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:30
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Chill la Chill posted:You know what's also a badly written rulebook? Archipelago. I love the game and tonight was playthrough #6 or 7 but I played with a different set of people who've played it in their own group and oh boy this led to a lot of rules interpretations I didn't realize was hazy until now. #1 being the cost of activated evolution cards and paid to whom and #2 being how many resources can player #1 dictate the use of during crises and why you would ever let player #2 decide. Speaking of Archipelago's rulebook, I went to look it up the other day for a refresher and noticed there's a "2.0" version of the rules. I ended up not having time to read over it, what changed? Any actual rule interactions or just like typos/grammar?
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Oct 3, 2017 03:31
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Also I love Archipelago but holy moly are a lot of the Evolution cards a pain in the rear end for new players. There's so many of them and a lot of them are just coated in rules text that you can't possibly read from across the table it doesn't help that the game takes up a fair amount of table space) so every time new cards come up you need to pause the game to pass it around or read it out loud.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:32
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When we first started playing Keyflower, we thought that any meeples used to bid on tiles returned home at the end of the season (except for turn-order bids). Everyone would have like twenty people in their house at the start of winter. I was way better at that game than I am at actual Keyflower. ed. Also, I just now learnt you can use BOTH halves of a flare card in Tash Kalar if you meet both conditions.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:39
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Countblanc posted:isn't the rule that you just have to use more workers than the previous user, with a total of no more than 6 meeple on the tile? so you could bid with 3 to just lock everyone else out (since the next bid would require 4+, and that'd put the tile over the 6 maximum). Holy gently caress. All these years...
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Oct 3, 2017 03:55
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Countblanc posted:Speaking of Archipelago's rulebook, I went to look it up the other day for a refresher and noticed there's a "2.0" version of the rules. I ended up not having time to read over it, what changed? Any actual rule interactions or just like typos/grammar? If that's just the latest printing then I have no idea but drat that game needs an FAQ. The transaction/market/port is clear but why the hell would they use an example of someone buying 4 cubes?! I know there's an evolution card that does it but what? If the game wasn't an economic game theory box of fun I wouldn't have given it a second glance.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:58
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Are there any traitor games where there is the possibility that there is no traitor, but the agents can lose by turning on themselves?
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Oct 3, 2017 04:40
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I just want to point out that the 6 meeple limit in keyflower only applies to placing meeples on a tile to use its action. Bidding on a tile in order to place it in your village does not have a limit on the number of meeples.
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Oct 3, 2017 04:41
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sector_corrector posted:Are there any traitor games where there is the possibility that there is no traitor, but the agents can lose by turning on themselves? BSG, though veterans tend to avoid this pretty well. Dead of Winter?
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Oct 3, 2017 04:49
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sector_corrector posted:Are there any traitor games where there is the possibility that there is no traitor, but the agents can lose by turning on themselves? Archipelago can have no Sympathizer (the traitor analogue) but that's not quite the same thing. Countblanc fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 04:51
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sector_corrector posted:Are there any traitor games where there is the possibility that there is no traitor, but the agents can lose by turning on themselves? New Angeles. But you know at least one person is out to beat you, even if there is no traitor.
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Oct 3, 2017 05:15
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al-azad posted:whose idea was it to package Leaving Earth with this wraparound sticker I have to cut? Yeah I don't really understand that decision either because the art is gorgeous so why require you to cut it apart just to open the box. Eventually I'm gonna rehome my Leaving Earth into a box with the retro NASA art
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Oct 3, 2017 05:16
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Hey all, just curious about everyone's opinion on the Battlestar Galactica board game, as I've been tempted to get it, recently. I originally heard about it ages ago (that it's sort of like the old Wolf/Mafia group game, but different - also sort of like Resistance/Avalon in ways, I guess? But more complex) and was tempted then, but never got around to buying it. Since what's the minimum amount of players you'd recommend? I can easily play with two others on a regular basis, but if it needs a full house to actually be any good, I may need to reconsider. (I do like the theme/intrigue though, where people are naturally more suspicious of certain characters like Baltar and Boomer - but that you can never be entirely sure)
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Oct 3, 2017 06:18
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sector_corrector posted:Are there any traitor games where there is the possibility that there is no traitor, but the agents can lose by turning on themselves? This sums up Homeland quite well. There are players+1 loyalty cards and only one terrorist card. You need to cooperate pretty heavily just to avoid the general non terrorist loss condition so the game is at guiding that to given you points
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Oct 3, 2017 06:19
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Major Isoor posted:Hey all, just curious about everyone's opinion on the Battlestar Galactica board game, as I've been tempted to get it, recently. I originally heard about it ages ago (that it's sort of like the old Wolf/Mafia group game, but different - also sort of like Resistance/Avalon in ways, I guess? But more complex) and was tempted then, but never got around to buying it. Since what's the minimum amount of players you'd recommend? I can easily play with two others on a regular basis, but if it needs a full house to actually be any good, I may need to reconsider. (I do like the theme/intrigue though, where people are naturally more suspicious of certain characters like Baltar and Boomer - but that you can never be entirely sure) BSG is unique in that it's by far the best story generation game AND the best traitor game. It is more like Resistance than like Mafia, but MUCH more complex. The only correct number for the game is 5.
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Oct 3, 2017 06:47
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Some Numbers posted:BSG is unique in that it's by far the best story generation game AND the best traitor game. It is more like Resistance than like Mafia, but MUCH more complex. It's the best traitor game. It's also not a good game. But I've played my copy ~80 times and the thing is exploding... It only really works with experienced players imho and as you say exactly 5 players.
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Oct 3, 2017 06:49
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's the best traitor game. It's also not a good game. But I've played my copy ~80 times and the thing is exploding... It's also not a bad game, it's just poorly optimized. It still functions. I enjoy playing with new players because games play differently with new players.
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Oct 3, 2017 06:54
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's the best traitor game. It's also not a good game. But I've played my copy ~80 times and the thing is exploding... I tend to find that the game is a lot of fun, as long as everyone A) accepts that the witch hunt isn't personal B) gets really caught up in the witch hunt Apparently with 'pro gamers' the game is really really easy for the humans, but in all our games it turns into this big emotive poo poo slinging match followed by a crippling Cylon reveal, and it's so much more fun than playing a logic deduction game, lol.
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Oct 3, 2017 10:03
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Countblanc posted:isn't the rule that you just have to use more workers than the previous user, with a total of no more than 6 meeple on the tile? so you could bid with 3 to just lock everyone else out (since the next bid would require 4+, and that'd put the tile over the 6 maximum). I thought this only applied to using a tile, not bidding on it. If there's a maximum for bidding I must have missed it.
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Oct 3, 2017 10:17
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!Klams posted:I tend to find that the game is a lot of fun, as long as everyone Sort of? I think The game changes again once you get really good because a meta game develops where you don't want the humans to be too ahead at the half way mark incase you turn out to be sleeper agent, to make sure you might be able to win. Which leads to humans tanking deliberately to make things sufficiently bad that they might be able to win if they are the sleeper agent - which creates more space for cylons, but you don't want to be too obvious because if you put yourself as a sleeper agent before the flop the other players recalculate their chance of being a Cylon as lower so will accept less risk and work harder for the human cause before half way.
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Oct 3, 2017 10:20
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KongGeorgeVII posted:I just want to point out that the 6 meeple limit in keyflower only applies to placing meeples on a tile to use its action. Bidding on a tile in order to place it in your village does not have a limit on the number of meeples. My wife and I got this wrong for like half a dozen games, yet the game still worked more or less as intended. Only figured it out when I read the rules again to teach her mum.
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Oct 3, 2017 11:25
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hoiyes posted:My wife and I got this wrong for like half a dozen games, yet the game still worked more or less as intended. Only figured it out when I read the rules again to teach her mum. Yeah, it is pretty rare to get bids bigger than 3 but I've seen people bid 5 on things that are integral to their strategy.
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Oct 3, 2017 11:30
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Hmm well, BSG sounds good, but the five-player recommendation is a turn-off - I could easily do three player games and also four player games reasonably often, but five player game nights only come up now and again, these days. Is Homeland good with around four people, or does that play best with five, like BSG? (I wasn't aware of it before, but Mojo Jojo's post piqued my interest - especially as it was mentioned that there isn't necessarily a terrorist/traitor) Either way, I'm still kinda tempted for BSG - especially if it's still almost as good with four people. I guess it's reasonable though, for a game like this to be optimal with 5-6.
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Oct 3, 2017 11:49
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