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KillHour posted:This new FiveThirtyEight article is making my head spin. These people valorize the violent arms of the state as benevolent protectors and see the police and the military as roughly equivalent. An attack on the police is an attack on the right of the state to protect the nation from harm, and because their politics is primarily informed by fear of omnipresent danger, this is basically an act of treason.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:18
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Captain Invictus posted:so if democrats sweep the government, what the gently caress is going to happen? This seems tantamount to a declaration of war by sabotaging our democratic election and infiltrating multiple aspects of society to do so, as well as seemingly hacking or otherwise breaking into private governmental systems. I really don't feel like this can be let go with a simple finger-waggling, but what do we do that doesn't simply involve nuking moscow or poloniuming putin? more sanctions on his oligarchs, seizing all of the stuff that keeps them loyal. the maginsky act pissed him off like nothing else (and that's what the russians were SAYING they wanted, a repeal of that, when dangling hacked stuff to Don Jr.) because it targets those oligarchs and that weakens putin
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Oct 9, 2017 15:18
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Russian media and online intervention in the 2016 election was greater than previously known. I'm actually kinda surprised the Russians didn't plant a few pro-HRC ads as well - it would be a very Russian strategy to seek plausible deniability and promote confusion by playing both sides. I guess that's what they were trying to do in part with the Stein/Sanders stuff though
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Oct 9, 2017 15:19
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KillHour posted:All the really lovely people I know joined the [branch] Guard and won't shut up about their "service" and "sacrifice" and how much they "risked their lives" in the "military" (yet they conveniently neglect to mention they were in the Guard) so this checks out. I'm currently a reservist and I have to say that in transitioning from active duty to reserves that your statement also checks out. God I loving hate the reserves, that healthcare and travel though.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:19
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WeAreTheRomans posted:I'm actually kinda surprised the Russians didn't plant a few pro-HRC ads as well - it would be a very Russian strategy to seek plausible deniability and promote confusion by playing both sides. I guess that's what they were trying to do in part with the Stein/Sanders stuff though russia doesn't actually really care about plausible deniability here, getting caught also helps damage american institutions
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Oct 9, 2017 15:20
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WeAreTheRomans posted:I'm actually kinda surprised the Russians didn't plant a few pro-HRC ads as well - it would be a very Russian strategy to seek plausible deniability and promote confusion by playing both sides. I guess that's what they were trying to do in part with the Stein/Sanders stuff though It seems pretty clear to me that the Russians didn't particularly care if they got caught. If Trump wins, they've got their guy in office, if Hillary wins, she's put in the awkward situation of propagating a destabilizing conspiracy that will sound crazy and pointless to the public. And if it gets out, it has the effect of delegitimizing the democratic process, which is a plus.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:22
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evilweasel posted:more sanctions on his oligarchs, seizing all of the stuff that keeps them loyal. the maginsky act pissed him off like nothing else (and that's what the russians were SAYING they wanted, a repeal of that, when dangling hacked stuff to Don Jr.) because it targets those oligarchs and that weakens putin
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Oct 9, 2017 15:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:it owns that right wing media made a sizable portion of the country so stupid we were susceptible to influence by a foreign power. Not only stupid, but stupid and stubborn. You all know that once all the info comes out, a big percentage of the population will refuse to acknowledge it, or go further in the tank for Russian propaganda, just because they are being told it's bad.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:23
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KillHour posted:I dunno, I think it's pretty smart. He got a lot of attention for the cause, if nothing else. The cops vs. black people thing was already as polarized as could be, so it's not like he's turning anybody off. The protests have higher support than BLM, in any case. It was really going nowhere for months until Trump picked it up.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:24
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Captain Invictus posted:Yeah, but that's not going to stop them from continuing to manipulate poo poo in US democratic politics, like they're still doing it even now. What are the options to stop them? Sure tightening the economic noose hurts them, but I don't know if it'd make them quit loving around with funding extreme right-wing groups in the US and around the world. you can't stop a nuclear power from causing trouble you can just put pressure on putin personally then negotiate to take it off that said, there's also the other thing we're doing that absolutely is wrecking putin's power: fracking. america has started producing so much natural gas from fracking in the past half decade or so that global energy prices have nosedived and russia is basically a petrostate so they are in a bad place as a result.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:25
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WeAreTheRomans posted:I'm actually kinda surprised the Russians didn't plant a few pro-HRC ads as well - it would be a very Russian strategy to seek plausible deniability and promote confusion by playing both sides. I guess that's what they were trying to do in part with the Stein/Sanders stuff though You have your strategy all wrong. Stein/Sanders wasn't for deniability. It was to damage Clinton.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:26
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Boon posted:I'm currently a reservist and I have to say that in transitioning from active duty to reserves that your statement also checks out. God I loving hate the reserves, that healthcare and travel though. I didn't join the military because I knew I would be absolutely miserable in it, but my cousin is a drill Sargent and I kind of envy him because he gets to make terrible peoples' lives miserable.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:27
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Vladimir Putin posted:It was really going nowhere for months until Trump picked it up. haha what. trump ruined what it was actually about.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:28
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Vladimir Putin posted:You have your strategy all wrong. Stein/Sanders wasn't for deniability. It was to damage Clinton. You're thinking too specifically. The Russians want chaos. They funded most of the challengers to the establishment and fueled divides within the party and the country to try and gently caress up as much as they possibly could.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:30
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Withnail posted:Vast untapped natural resources. Also we managed to not be completely leveled by WWII by virtue of being on the other side of the world.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:30
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Captain Invictus posted:At the same time, he was clean, and likely even with stricter gun regulations, could have still slipped through the cracks based on literally everything people were saying about him outside of him losing at gambling, which happens all the drat time and not everyone goes on rampages because of going broke at the blackjack table. Yeah his father was a supreme dirtbag, but, well, Sins Of The Father and all that. My friend's dad was a horrifying person but that doesn't mean his son was too. From everything I've seen the only sign that he had "serious untreated mental health issues" was that he went and premeditatedly shot up a concert with a shitload of guns, and really that's a wee bit late to detect instability. Yeah, the only thing that stops this guy is either a total ban OR broad cultural change such that "suicide by cop" is no longer a thing men do when they face a loss of status. Your guess which is more likely. the answer is "neither"
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Oct 9, 2017 15:32
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KillHour posted:They don't have to be for more regulations on anything. You're the one saying a certain amount of death isn't acceptable. However, they're also implying you're not for more regulations on driving, that regulations on driving are somehow mutually exclusive with regulations on guns or that you can't focus on one problem as long as any larger problem also exists. All of those things are stupid, but your rebuttal wasn't very effective. Fair enough, I thought it was kinda weak, but I'm not very good at arguing and I'm not educated in the finer points of law or regulations in America and I didn't want to go down the trodden path that just downplays deaths because that just makes me sad.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:33
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/917382183727312896
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Oct 9, 2017 15:33
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Flip Yr Wig posted:It seems pretty clear to me that the Russians didn't particularly care if they got caught. If Trump wins, they've got their guy in office, if Hillary wins, she's put in the awkward situation of propagating a destabilizing conspiracy that will sound crazy and pointless to the public. And if it gets out, it has the effect of delegitimizing the democratic process, which is a plus. Trump wasn't even their best case scenario. Ideally Hillary won, Trump didn't concede, and the whole system got bogged down with a statistically significant number of people questioning Hillary's legitimacy. This eroded voter faith in Washington further and set the country up for an even nastier 2020 election. Instead Russia actually got their preferred candidate in office, which exposed their nefarious dealings and got them deeper sanctions. Plus it invalidated their efforts in France and Germany. They did throw a wrench into our political system though. Still, it's unlikely they'll have any influence over the 2018 and 2020 elections. And those sanctions aren't going anywhere.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:33
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Is anything really going to change that would prevent Russia from doing the same stuff in 2018/2020? Congress likely won't take much action. The Trump people sure as hell are not going to do anything.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:35
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the russia stuff only worked because you had the two least popular candidates in history running.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:36
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Targeted individual sanctions against specific actors is actually devastating to Russian interests. It seems lile a vanity exercise and the practice has not been adequately unpacked to the public. And it really does seem absurd, like sanctioning and freezing the bank accounts and wire transfer of several dozen people is going to affect national behavior. But remember that Russia is a kleptocratic oligarchy which stands only for the benefit of a few dozen people. These few dozen people can be hit hard because the new the money they steal out the Russian economy to be transortable.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:37
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https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/917382792517996549quote:According to the Reuters/Ipsos daily tracking poll, the Republican president’s popularity is eroding in small towns and rural communities where 15 percent of the country’s population lives. The poll of more than 15,000 adults in “non-metro” areas shows that they are now as likely to disapprove of Trump as they are to approve of him. 
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Oct 9, 2017 15:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:the russia stuff only worked because you had the two least popular candidates in history running. While Hillary didn't have the charisma needed to overcome it, part of the reason she WAS so unpopular was this type of thing (well, and being the presumptive nominee). She was usually found to be the most popular/respected/inspiring woman in politics up until the latter half of 2015.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:39
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Randbrick posted:Targeted individual sanctions against specific actors is actually devastating to Russian interests. It seems lile a vanity exercise and the practice has not been adequately unpacked to the public. And it really does seem absurd, like sanctioning and freezing the bank accounts and wire transfer of several dozen people is going to affect national behavior. Also, Putin isn't all powerful. He needs support from the oligarchy just like American politicians need their special interest groups. He can arrest or harass individual billionaires, but if most of them feel like Putin is more trouble than good then they will get rid of him. And unlike the U.S., getting rid of someone in Russia doesn't mean supporting their opponent in an election.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:43
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theflyingorc posted:While Hillary didn't have the charisma needed to overcome it, part of the reason she WAS so unpopular was this type of thing (well, and being the presumptive nominee). She was usually found to be the most popular/respected/inspiring woman in politics up until the latter half of 2015. And if Bernie had won the nomination, overnight he would have become the Most Corrupt Politician In American History (Click Here To See Why!).
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Oct 9, 2017 15:48
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theflyingorc posted:While Hillary didn't have the charisma needed to overcome it, part of the reason she WAS so unpopular was this type of thing (well, and being the presumptive nominee). She was usually found to be the most popular/respected/inspiring woman in politics up until the latter half of 2015. If Bernie had been the candidate, he'd have got a lot of character assassination, too. I'd have expected to see a lot of sly anti-semitism couched as concern about his atheism. And that dubious affair with his wife and college funding that went nowhere - that would have been blown up until he looked like a sleazy moneygrubbing crook.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:48
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Krispy Wafer posted:Also, Putin isn't all powerful. He needs support from the oligarchy just like American politicians need their special interest groups. He can arrest or harass individual billionaires, but if most of them feel like Putin is more trouble than good then they will get rid of him. And unlike the U.S., getting rid of someone in Russia doesn't mean supporting their opponent in an election. This is true, but so far russian oligarchs are quite cool with Putin. He is seen as the guarantor of the system that lets them stay rich and powerful, and if he is removed, they are loving _terrified_ that Russia will backslide into the factionalism and possible dissolution of the 90s. That period of chaos let them grab everything they could, yes, but it's also bad for business now .
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Oct 9, 2017 15:50
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I have said in the past that we need to ban access to the American internet from heuristic suspicious behavior from Russia and apparent bot farms,. We very much have the tech to do it and our libertarian obsession with free speech without any social responsibility is causing a lot of this nonsense. Obviously this needs to be done in the private sector because until recently WH.gov was not spreading lies and misinformation.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:1) Significantly mentally ill and undiagnosed and untreated (possibly psychopathy, given the father on the 10 most wanted list; definitely suicidal to some degree) This sort of thing is like a tiny worm that can live in our heads for years, silent and writhing, growing gradually with every hard experience without presenting any external signifiers.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:54
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RuanGacho posted:I have said in the past that we need to ban access to the American internet from heuristic suspicious behavior from Russia and apparent bot farms,. We very much have the tech to do it and our libertarian obsession with free speech without any social responsibility is causing a lot of this nonsense. "our obsession with free speech" lmao
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Oct 9, 2017 15:55
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nwo hatchet man posted:"our obsession with free speech" lmao He said free speech without social responsibility you moron
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Oct 9, 2017 15:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:it owns that right wing media made a sizable portion of the country so stupid we were susceptible to influence by a foreign power. What explains the Bernie/Jill/Never Hillary voters on the left?
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Oct 9, 2017 15:58
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BarbarianElephant posted:If Bernie had been the candidate, he'd have got a lot of character assassination, too. I'd have expected to see a lot of sly anti-semitism couched as concern about his atheism. And that dubious affair with his wife and college funding that went nowhere - that would have been blown up until he looked like a sleazy moneygrubbing crook. Yeah - and this is not to say he definitely wouldn't have won. Because of which states were important, I lean towards "he probably would have". But he'd would have been polling like 30 points lower by election day. And lol part of the reason the right wing doesn't hate him is because the Russians literally promoted him to right wing Facebook users to further undermine Hillary lol gret posted:What explains the Bernie/Jill/Never Hillary voters on the left? Anyone who voted for Stein is a moron who should be ignored, tho theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 16:00
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Havent unpacked this entirely yet but wanted to share the alert i just got: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/russia-trump-tower-meeting-new-documents/index.html
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Oct 9, 2017 16:00
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gret posted:What explains the Bernie/Jill/Never Hillary voters on the left? more bernie voters voted for clinton than clinton voters voted for obama, dummy.
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Oct 9, 2017 16:03
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marshmonkey posted:Turkey and US suspend most visa services: i CaN't BeLiEvE tHeY mIsSeD aN oPpOrTuNiTy To WrItE iT lIkE tHiS
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Oct 9, 2017 16:06
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KillHour posted:These numbers mean that there are people who think the kneeling is both about calling attention to racism AND disrespecting the military. How the hell do you come to that conclusion? Racism is so American that protesting it is seen as protesting the country.
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Oct 9, 2017 16:08
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Phoix posted:Everyone already knows Stephen Miller is insane but if you want a better picture of just how insane, well strap in. Wait did this happen like now and not 20 years ago?
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Oct 9, 2017 16:11
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Brace for tweets. https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/917406112281972736
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