|
I liked it better when Dead Reckoning just tried to wave away concerns as 'un-ethical' rather than try to play off bans as slippery slopes.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 02:26 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 14:24 |
|
Ogmius815 posted:See also: Murkowski, Lisa Who is still in power. Also Lieberman.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 02:33 |
|
Didn't Cheney's daughter try the same thing? Using her politically connected father to get her carpet bagging rear end elected in Wyoming without actually even living there?
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 02:46 |
|
Axetrain posted:Didn't Cheney's daughter try the same thing? Using her politically connected father to get her carpet bagging rear end elected in Wyoming without actually even living there? The Cheneys are established in Wyoming. Liz Cheney was living in Virginia for a long time before coming back to Wyoming and running for office where she first tired to primary Senator Mike Enzi in 2014. When Cynthia Lummis gave up her seat in the House, Cheney ran for that. Erik Prince though....oh god.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:17 |
|
Star Man posted:
I can't decide who Wyoming deserves more, Prince, Barraso or a Cheney.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:39 |
|
hanales posted:I can't decide who Wyoming deserves more, Prince, Barraso or a Cheney. Wyoming deserves a volcanic eruption, tbh.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:42 |
|
Party Plane Jones posted:Wyoming deserves a volcanic eruption, tbh. Checks out yeah.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:43 |
|
hanales posted:I can't decide who Wyoming deserves more, Prince, Barraso or a Cheney. Lemme go ask the folks on the reservation that question and get back to you.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:44 |
|
Party Plane Jones posted:Wyoming deserves a volcanic eruption, tbh. Only if I'm allowed to axe murder all Cascadians.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:45 |
|
Star Man posted:Only if I'm allowed to axe murder all Cascadians. Flee while you can star man.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 03:49 |
|
VitalSigns posted:Just plotting a Brady score vs raw homicide rate doesn't prove what you think it does. You have to compare the change in homicide rates before and after a law (ideally to a control if available). I haven't really found the idea of a control State practical in many cases, but sure, let's go for it anyway: No wait stop (Sorry, too easy. I mean, that slope doesn't even budge.) Here's something a little meatier: So for eight years after Australia's great gun grab, it didn't do anything, and while I'm sure you're keen to point to the post 2002 decline as proof that confiscation works if only you give it enough time, the United States actually experienced a greater decline in per capita homicide rate over the same period, despite the sunset of the federal assault weapon ban and the liberalization of concealed carry laws in many states. There is one example I can think of where there were actually control States though. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was passed in 1993 and came into effect in Feb of '94. The interesting thing is, 18 states and the District of Columbia had already passed similar laws, so one could actually compare the 32 "treatment" states to the 18 "control" states. The result? A reduction in firearm suicides among those 55 or older, but no significant difference in homicide and suicide for treatment and control states otherwise. Gun control really is just nibbling at the edges. If you don't give a poo poo about the right to self defense, that's probably good enough for you, but hopefully you can see why those of us who do care about gun rights aren't willing to endorse further control. VitalSigns posted:Blindly comparing urban and rural areas also doesn't tell you much, of course urban areas have a higher per capita crime rate; "you're more likely to be murdered in California than in Idaho" tells you more about the percentage of the population that lives in dense urban areas in California compared to Idaho than it does about the effect of policy differences between those states. But you're a pretty smart guy so I suspect you know this already and are either hoping your audience doesn't or you're just rationalizing your way to the conclusion you want to reach. VitalSigns posted:Turns out when you review 64 years of academic studies on the subject both within the United States and internationally, gun control done right turns out to be effective and you can also determine which laws work and which are useless or counterproductive. Like, this is the exact fallacy I addressed in my last paragraph. Yeah, if you make guns less practical for most people to get legally, which is exactly the policies you describe, they're sometimes less prevalent in suicides and homicides, but it leaves totally unaddressed the question of whether it actually lowers overall homicide or suicide rates. And the reason you and others stubbornly refuse to engage to engage with that question is because the data to support your pre-determined conclusion just isn't there for homicides, and the question of what drives suicide rates is complex enough to defy easy answers. CommieGIR posted:I liked it better when Dead Reckoning just tried to wave away concerns as 'un-ethical' rather than try to play off bans as slippery slopes. *1,043 people killed in active shooter incidents between 2000 and 2013 per the FBI, because let's face it, people only care about this when it's something like U of T Austin, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Aurora, Orlando, or Vegas. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Oct 9, 2017 |
# ? Oct 9, 2017 06:37 |
How do you feel about the CDC not being able to conduct research on gun violence in America? It seems like you enjoy raw data, but right now there's a dearth of it because the apparatus meant to find out about these things isn't allowed to conduct any studies about it. I'm curious if you'll argue some dumb slippery slope bullshit like republicans do when anyone brings it up or if you'd be okay with more data on the subject to have a more informed discussion.
|
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 07:27 |
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:How do you feel about the CDC not being able to conduct research on gun violence in America? It seems like you enjoy raw data, but right now there's a dearth of it because the apparatus meant to find out about these things isn't allowed to conduct any studies about it. DR is just going to calmly explain to you that in fact you're wrong the CDC totally could do gun studies because it isn't a ban but they don't want to. Please ignore all context blah blah blah. We've heard it all before.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 07:33 |
|
he's trolling you guys as evidenced by his graph labelled homocide
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 08:02 |
|
I remember when DR was in the dapl thread and defending the oil companies bulldozing artifacts and destroying them so they wouldn't have to reroute the pipeline Also defending said companies blasting protesters with water cannons in below freezing temperatures and siccing attack dogs on them just if you bother to engage him seriously
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 08:39 |
|
Condiv posted:I remember when DR was in the dapl thread and defending the oil companies bulldozing artifacts and destroying them so they wouldn't have to reroute the pipeline You should see the vaccine thread, where he was using gun idiot logic to logic himself into being an anti-vaxxer. Highlights: -Kids die in bike accidents all the time so why do they need vaccines, liberals? -What if my infant wants to get measles (you know, probably), big government shouldn't take that choice away from -Individual rights, big government has no ethical right to put something in my baby's body (unless it's hot hot lead and we're talking about scary black babies who might be packing heat) -Vaccination is a slippery slope to a Demolition Man dystopia where big government takes away your dog and doesn't let you have sex or eat butter because you might get hurt.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 09:24 |
|
Dead Reckoning posted:
Noooope. Most of the studies done show it was effective, although you can decide to cherry-pick the minority that found no effect (or I guess just slap some tables from Wikipedia into excel without controlling for anything and then play Fox News games with the Y-axis scaling, that works too). What Do We Know About the Association Between Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Injuries? posted:The 1996 National Firearms Agreement (NFA) and the South Australia Firearms Act Dead Reckoning posted:There is one example I can think of where there were actually control States though. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was passed in 1993 and came into effect in Feb of '94. The interesting thing is, 18 states and the District of Columbia had already passed similar laws, so one could actually compare the 32 "treatment" states to the 18 "control" states. The result? A reduction in firearm suicides among those 55 or older, but no significant difference in homicide and suicide for treatment and control states otherwise. Dead Reckoning posted:I think if going from a more urban state to a rural one is consistently sufficient to completely drown out the difference between the most restrictive and least restrictive gun laws in the country, that rather neatly supports my point that gun laws don't do much. Plus, your theory fails to explain the difference between rural states in the South and rural states in the Northeast/Northern Great Plains. No, it does not support your point, and if you think it does you are bad at statistical reasoning. Dead Reckoning posted:C'mon, man, it's right there in the title: "What Do We Know About the Association Between Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Injuries?" From above: What Do We Know About the Association Between Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Injuries? posted:The 1996 National Firearms Agreement (NFA) and the South Australia Firearms Act What Do We Know About the Association Between Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Injuries? posted:South Africa's Firearms Control Act Dead Reckoning posted:I'm just trying to figure out the mindset of someone who thinks, "80* people killed per year in active shooter incidents, that's totally unconscionable, but 20 per year is an acceptable price for Americans to enjoy their God-given right to hunt." "Oh wow that's a lot of needless deaths, let me pretend only the 8% that get the most newspaper-column inches are the only important ones so the problem sounds insignificant. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Oct 9, 2017 |
# ? Oct 9, 2017 09:38 |
|
Condiv posted:I remember when DR was in the dapl thread and defending the oil companies bulldozing artifacts and destroying them so they wouldn't have to reroute the pipeline https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2016cv1534-39 Pg 13-14 quote:Dakota Access nevertheless also prominently considered another factor in crafting its route: the potential presence of historic properties. Using past cultural surveys, the company devised DAPL’s route to account for and avoid sites that had already been identified as potentially eligible for or listed on the National Register of Historic Places. With that path in hand, in July 2014, the company purchased rights to a 400-foot corridor along its preliminary route to conduct extensive new cultural surveys of its own. These surveys eventually covered the entire length of the pipeline in North and South Dakota, and much of Iowa and Illinois. Professionally licensed archaeologists conducted Class II cultural surveys, which are “focused on visual reconnaissance of the ground surface in settings with high ground visibility.” In some places, however, the same archaeologists carried out more intensive Class III cultural surveys, which involve a “comprehensive archaeological survey program” requiring both surface visual inspection and shovel-test probes of fixed grids to “inventory, delineate, and assess” historic sites. These latter surveys required coordination with and approval by State Historic Preservation Officers. Pg 29: quote:The improved relationship, however, had its limits. In the spring, the Corps worked with Dakota Access to offer consulting tribes an opportunity to conduct cultural surveys at PCN locations where the private landowner would permit them. This included 7 of the 11 sites in North and South Dakota. Three tribes took the opportunity, and it paid off. The Upper Sioux Community identified areas of tribal concern at three PCN sites, and Dakota Access agreed to additional avoidance measures at all of them. At one of these sites, the tribal surveyors and the Iowa SHPO declared a site eligible for listing on the National Registry that had not previously been identified on Dakota Access’s surveys. Dakota Access agreed in response to this discovery to bury the pipeline 111 feet below the site to avoid disturbing it. Similarly, the Osage Tribe identified areas through their surveys that they wished to monitor during construction, and the company granted that request too. Standing Rock took a different tack. The Tribe declined to participate in the surveys because of their limited scope. Instead, it urged the Corps to redefine the area of potential effect to include the entire pipeline and asserted that it would send no experts to help identify cultural resources until this occurred.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 09:38 |
|
shut up about posters and do the politics posts. if out of some weird masochism dr posts in the thunderdome you can rake him over the coals there
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 10:10 |
|
R. Guyovich posted:shut up about posters and do the politics posts. if out of some weird masochism dr posts in the thunderdome you can rake him over the coals there I just checked Twitter for the first time in months and discovered that the NASCAR drivers I follow are significantly to the left of the Democrats I follow. Im loving confused.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 15:40 |
|
VitalSigns posted:You should see the vaccine thread, where he was using gun idiot logic to logic himself into being an anti-vaxxer. Holy poo poo, I didn't know it was this bad.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 15:46 |
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:I just checked Twitter for the first time in months and discovered that the NASCAR drivers I follow are significantly to the left of the Democrats I follow. Im loving confused. Probably because the former group has at least some interactions with non-bourgie people.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 15:47 |
|
BrandorKP posted:All things carry thier end in-themselves. Our society is no exception. We can look at it honestly and without fear and I think Coates does that. I don't think it can be done within our society. At the very least, not our current society. At the very least, there isn't much basis for optimism.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 15:53 |
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I'm just trying to figure out the mindset of someone who thinks, "80* people killed per year in active shooter incidents, that's totally unconscionable, but 20 per year is an acceptable price for Americans to enjoy their God-given right to hunt." You're an idiot. You don't need an AR-15/Semi-Auto rifle to hunt, and this is just a pathetic slippery slope argument. And no, a Semi-Auto ban would not end hunting. And again, you keep citing graphs, while FULLY IGNORING that we've demonstrated that the NRA has made researching gun violence impossible, so it begs the question: Who made the graphs you cite? Hm? Probably not someone that was going to release a study that the NRA wouldn't like. Because as we know from the past, the NRA will make sure that you receive no funding in the future if you do a study they dislike. Don't forget: The NRA has basically a veto oversight on any CDC studies done relating to guns. Dead Reckoning posted:https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2016cv1534-39 From the same courts that authorized what was basically a paramilitary encounter with multiple different state police actively harassing protesters. Got it. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 9, 2017 |
# ? Oct 9, 2017 16:36 |
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I'm just trying to figure out the mindset of someone who thinks, "80* people killed per year in active shooter incidents, that's totally unconscionable, but 20 per year is an acceptable price for Americans to enjoy their God-given right to hunt." Significantly fewer deaths is a better outcome than significantly more deaths.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 17:11 |
|
DRs an antivaxxer too? What a fuckwad I hope they get shingles.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 17:14 |
|
VitalSigns posted:You should see the vaccine thread, where he was using gun idiot logic to logic himself into being an anti-vaxxer. Can we get a link to this?
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 17:25 |
|
Keystone and DAPL won't even be profitable anyway because the Saudis crashed the price of oil in 2014 and then lost control over oil prices because so many other people couldn't cut production that crude oil is hilariously oversupplied and underpriced. There are literally oil tanker ships full of crude oil just sitting off the coasts of several ports storing it because we're that oversupplied. So we're destroying the environment to build Keystone and DAPL for the sake of profits that won't even materialize.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 18:42 |
|
Majorian posted:Significantly fewer deaths is a better outcome than significantly more deaths. Did the person you're replying to get the same sort of home schooling that Baked Alaska person claimed to receive?
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 18:59 |
|
you all ready for some really really racist poo poo? https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/917361118368034818
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 19:06 |
|
botany posted:you all ready for some really really racist poo poo? ...the gently caress?
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 19:12 |
|
zxqv8 posted:
Its Ben Shapiro.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 19:13 |
|
CommieGIR posted:Can we get a link to this? how about asking this via pm instead of continuing to do the thing i warned the thread not to do
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 20:05 |
|
Main Paineframe posted:I don't think it can be done within our society. At the very least, not our current society. At the very least, there isn't much basis for optimism. Things become what they are. Most people are familiar with the story of Jonah. What they don't realize is that Jonah is running from what Jonah is. That's the metaphor I'm seeing it in now. Is the US in the belly of the whale, in the process of becoming, or is this what we are. I don't think we get to know until it plays out. I'm going to risk that Trump isn't what we are. We are well and truly hosed anyway if he is.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 20:33 |
|
CommieGIR posted:Its Ben Shapiro. Reminder Shapiro almost got killed by a woman when he insulted her and called her the t-word. He then tried to sue and then dropped the suit like the little POS he is. Also lol at the EPA saying coal is coming back and stupid rednecks still thinking that their jerbs are coming back. Long live fracking and fire water and local micro quakes.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 20:39 |
|
BrandorKP posted:Things become what they are. I'm sorry but how is that what Jonah is about? Basically the whole point of Jonah is that Jonah never develops or grows as a person.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 21:00 |
BrandorKP posted:Things become what they are. Trump is Little Wooden Boy
|
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 21:02 |
|
The Kingfish posted:I'm sorry but how is that what Jonah is about? Basically the whole point of Jonah is that Jonah never develops or grows as a person. BrandorKP is noted for trying to relate everything to Christian parables.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 21:12 |
|
I'm all for metaphorical reference to the scriptures, but I expect it to be consistent at least. Jonah is basically a Old Testament comedy about a terrible person who Yahweh won't let die or otherwise fail in the task Yahweh has given him.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 21:25 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 14:24 |
|
The Kingfish posted:I'm sorry but how is that what Jonah is about? Basically the whole point of Jonah is that Jonah never develops or grows as a person. Jonah is forced to be Jonah (to goto Nineveh ). It's pretty miserable for Jonah.
|
# ? Oct 9, 2017 21:45 |