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Alaois posted:she, you dickhead Ok? Doesn't effect my point either way but good to know I guess
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Oct 11, 2017 08:11
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CharlestheHammer posted:I like how Kim Justice just regurgitates every Nazi talking point to muddle poo poo up. Are you loving kidding me? Like, you literally proved my point. Apparently what I'm saying are freaking Nazi talking points. That being what, it might be a good idea to look at videos instead of relying on 2nd hand accounts of them to see what people are ACTUALLY saying? That obvious hitpieces should be recognised for what they are? And apparently this is muddling poo poo up...lol, what do you mean by that? And hey, thanks for the misgender too. Great social justiceing there bruh. This poo poo is crazy. I can't even loving disagree about anything, it seems. It's not a disagreement, it's just flat out wrong. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 08:36
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Kim Justice posted:I also have to say that, the way the climate is now, poo poo is getting so muddied that the definition of Nazi is becoming less and less clearer...it's like the word is losing its power. It's tying itself in with the alt-right, whatever that may be...the poo poo started by Richard Spencer and company, for sure and rightly, but then others add a whole bunch of other things to the mix. It kind of says something when some of the biggest attempts made to define and then dissect the alt-right for what they are have been made by channels that are frequently considered "alt-right". Okay, how are any of the desires of the alt-right (which seem to be a white ethno-state, the ability to keep white men on top, that transgender and none binary stuff is "degeneracy" and that feminism must be purged) any different from a dime store facist one? And yeah, I am sorry to say that what you just raised "What are facists really" is a Nazi talking point. It is used constantly to say that "I just want a white ethno-state, but don't want to kill anyone with it". Not trying to rag on you here, just pointing it out
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Oct 11, 2017 09:16
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Muddied? Does the statement "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US" chanted by nazis in Charlottesville dilute the term "nazi" like watered down booze? https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/opinion/alt-right-white-supremacy-undercover.amp.html Annointed fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 09:32
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Kim Justice posted:I also have to say that, the way the climate is now, poo poo is getting so muddied that the definition of Nazi is becoming less and less clearer... Like, whatever, Fantano getting confused for those people because he made a meme channel pandering to those people is unfortunate for him if he didn't want that, but also a very obvious consequence of making videos where he plays a generic idiot socialist strawman who spent all his money on gender studies courses, or tells SJWs to drink bleach. Ezra Marcus saw who those videos appeal to, maybe even read the comments sections, and then noted that maybe this pandering might imply something of his own views, before going on to conclude that people are going to draw conclusions Fantano might not like of this work, and that this kind of bizarre pandering harms the sense of legitimacy Fantano himself would like to acquire: "This leaves just one question. Deep down, what does Fantano actually want?[...] Fantano says that he “would at least like to be treated with the same amount of legitimacy” as other music writers. [...] As long as he continues to undermine his actual criticism with toxic cash-grab bullshit he can kiss that dream goodbye" The article is hardly a hit piece. It correctly identifies that people might (mistakenly or otherwise!) associate him with the people he appears next to in videos while telling feminists to drink bleach and how studying gender is a waste of time and money. Kim, it seems like you're making a very deliberately uncharitable reading of the Fader article while hand-waving Fantano's work and being as charitable as possible to him, and I don't personally think this is a useful strategy for discerning the truth. Fantano is going to have trouble being treated as legitimate while telling SJWs to kill themselves. You and Fantano can get angry about this, but the truth is nothing to be upset about - it's something to live with and use to make according choices. Getting mad that the SJWs didn't appreciate the depth of the ''edgy'' ''joke'' about how they should kill themselves achieves nothing. There is no win-condition here where if you get angry enough about people misunderstanding you, people will spontaneously understand you better. Kim Justice posted:It kind of says something when some of the biggest attempts made to define and then dissect the alt-right for what they are have been made by channels that are frequently considered "alt-right". There is a word for this: Propaganda. The "Jewish Question" is itself an example of this process: People recognised that anti-semitism was wrong, so they found rhetorical strategies to talk around it and rephrase it into something else. "I'm just asking questions about whether the jews are controlling everything and have to be stopped! What's the fuss all about?!"  "No-one's denying that the Nazis were anti-semitic! The point is just to to humbly examine if the jews controlling the media and banks is bad for us, which it isn't, and we have to stop them." Here's one of the top comments on that 'was hitler a bad person' video:  stell bell, a skincare youtuber who prises looking as white as possible and also destroying feminism, and whose liked videos playlist is a fascist merry go round, seems to think the video is doing a very good job of making people think like her. When people who support fascism are congratulating the creator on how convincingly it makes the argument for fascism and how they're going to try to use it to get their friends onside, that means something about the function of the work. When you see a channel that goes 'I'm gonna do an in-depth look at the alt-right, oh look whaddya know, it turns out they're just asking questions about the Jews!', and generally tries to rewrite the movement to be a series of 'legitimate' ideas and ignore the part where they support ethnic cleansing, chances are you're watching propaganda.
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Oct 11, 2017 09:37
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Arcsquad12 posted:Knowing the current streak of disaster warnings though, his house will survive only for Yellowstone to erupt and wipe out everything and put us under an ash cloud. Promises promises...
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Oct 11, 2017 09:41
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There was a lot more here but this is kinda becoming upsetting so prob just going to leaveHbomb posted:Incidentally this is an amazing thing to read, in a response to a post linking you videos about the jewish question, one of which is literally entitled 'was Hitler a bad person?' But that's beside the point, let's talk about Fantano. I don't think I said that the Youtuber who was brought up there wasn't a Nazi or an alt-righter or anything like that, 'cause it certainly seemed that way and I'm sorry if that didn't come across. When I said that I was referring to other people and the way the term gets thrown around generally and used against people who really don't belong there. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 09:42
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The freakishness of the alt-right is really a strength. Liberals/leftists become so occupied with how terrible they are that they assume that they can win just by calling them stupid and presenting themselves as the common sense alternative.
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Oct 11, 2017 10:07
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Kim Justice posted:There was a lot more here but this is kinda becoming upsetting so prob just going to leave I completely agree with this and it’s sad that so many don’t seem to understand it. Yeah, obviously real neo-Nazis do exist and nobody is denying that, but that doesn’t mean people should just throw the accusation around carelessly. In fact, crying wolf every time someone does anything in the least bit suspicious is only going to confuse the issue further.
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Oct 11, 2017 10:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The freakishness of the alt-right is really a strength. Leftists become so occupied with how terrible they are that they assume that they can win just by calling them stupid and presenting themselves as the common sense alternative. Eh that is more the liberal position. Because when it comes right down to it the liberals are more than willing to side with the flash rather than have to resist in any meaningful way. They also just like to pretend they don't exist and do their best to just ignore it, finding reasons why thing is actually other thing. That is how this discussion exists.
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Oct 11, 2017 10:15
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Kim Justice posted:The way it's laid out in the video it's pretty clearly satire. Like, so clearly. You couldn't mistake what he was doing for anything else but a satire that comes from a liberal point of view. Oh well I guess if it's satire it's okay and free from all problems etc etc. I don't want anybody to be a nazi, least of all this guy, but if he courts altright he isn't free from blame. Even if i was to accept he is 100% not a neo-nazi, he has at least reproduced their content, told people to kill themselves and is actively making money off of their bullshit views, he's a fellow traveller and an enabler and he's not free from criticism. Here's a tip; if you don't want people to call or imply that you are a nazi, don't loving involve yourself with them, don't repeat their memes, no matter how "edgy" or "satirical" they are, don't make a seperate youtube channel dedicated to their brand of comedy, etc, don't hang out with important figures from their movement, don't involve yourself with them at all. Also can someone please explain to me how the article was "poorly researched" when they're quoting Fantano himself? Even with "context", his comments and actions aren't acceptable. Why would you invite a Sam Hyde of all people, let him talk about assaulting a woman and they stand by and giggle like a child whilst he talks about violating a woman? Disgusting. Ash Crimson fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 10:16
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Anthony Fantano is the next Mel Brooks what are you talking about
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Oct 11, 2017 10:47
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But he likes rap music! Like Death Grips!
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Oct 11, 2017 10:52
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Let's maybe not call random thread posters Nazis, when the worst "crime" they've committed is maybe misinterpreting some things.
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Oct 11, 2017 11:05
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https://youtu.be/gRsUzx4N8VI Why are you all gaslighting. What's the matter, can't take Different Opinions??????? fuckingkillme somekindofguy fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 11:07
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maybe the real nazis were the friends me made along the way
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Oct 11, 2017 11:20
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Hbomberguy posted:Anthony Fantano is the next Mel Brooks what are you talking about Yeahhhh this is what stops me from wanting to actually talk to you. When disagreement happens you can't stop yourself from just flat out acting like a snarky oval office. I'd like to think that you aren't a snarky oval office and you potentially being a snarky oval office won't stop me from loving what you do (indeed, being an entertaining snarky oval office is partly how you make your bones), but here it's kind of a shame. Like, even in that long post you made to me you seem to think that I'm talking about that "Is Hitler bad" dude when I'm talking about people who are analysing and dissecting the alt-right and providing definitions of what they are - folks like Dr. Carrier whose article about MythCon I posted a few pages back for example, where even with him people here seemed to just play the man instead of the ball. Thinking about it I don't really know how that could be thought when said guy (Mouthy Boobjob or whatever his name was) clearly wasn't doing anything of the sort and was indeed, being a Nazi fucker as is the case with anyone who brings up things like the Jewish Question. Kinda strange. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 11:55
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You seem more angry about Hbomber's tone and others pointing out Fantano's faults then you do about Fantano actually being a massive dickhead. At what point do you stop giving him the (very generous) benefit of the doubt and just admit that he hosed up and what he did was stupid?
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Oct 11, 2017 12:04
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At least the "snarky cuntness" bothers to address the point rather than going into a weird, weird spell of extreme, rather easy to exploit by "classically liberal free speech advocate white european identitarian contrarians", guilibilty that at this point it's baffling to witness by... anyone who has a fair share of familiarity with this. You're not racist, you're not a a nazi or whatever, but the only explanation for all of this that keeps some sense of good faith here is ... buying everything at face value.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:17
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Kim Justice posted:Yeahhhh this is what stops me from wanting to actually talk to you. When disagreement happens you can't stop yourself from just flat out acting like a snarky oval office. I'd like to think that you aren't a snarky oval office and you potentially being a snarky oval office won't stop me from loving what you do (indeed, being an entertaining snarky oval office is partly how you make your bones), but here it's kind of a shame. Why does "he's a fellow traveller and seems to use a lot of the same rhetorical devices" automatically mean "is a Nazi". For the most part, it seems more like "He's doing lovely things, it might be better if he stopped doing them". I am not going to claim that I know more about the discussion than what has been going on in this thread, but it seems a tad unfair for you to call Hbomberguy a "snarky oval office" over making a fairly harmless jibe and then turn around and say that someone who has said "drink bleach" is just being funny. Not only that but the first section of Hbombs post is about Fantano, the second is a more wide ranging point and it appear falacious to combine them. Again I am not meaning this to come across as cruel, not in the least, but I must disagree with where you are coming from.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:20
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Ash Crimson posted:You seem more angry about Hbomber's tone and others pointing out Fantano's faults then you do about Fantano actually being a massive dickhead. At what point do you stop giving him the (very generous) benefit of the doubt and just admit that he hosed up and what he did was stupid? Gee I dunno, something about a fellow peer misrepresenting my points and making out as though I'm defending some actual Nazi who was brought up in the thread seems to get my back up a little bit. Can't think why that would be. And to be precise, it's that second part that got my back up as opposed to the first. As far as Fantano goes...look, I watched his response video and felt that he refuted the points made in the article well - he explained the context and how the piece really didn't get it right, explained stuff like the godawful Sam Hyde thing and showed how he wasn't just laughing along and other poo poo. That and DEHH's take on it were enough to make me think that this was being blown out of proportion. It would have been ok to have a decent discussion about it, but it just always ends up in slanging matches and we all bring out the worst in each other.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:20
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Do we need a "no posts without content" rule.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:27
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Kim Justice posted:Gee I dunno, something about a fellow peer misrepresenting my points and making out as though I'm defending some actual Nazi who was brought up in the thread seems to get my back up a little bit. Can't think why that would be. And to be precise, it's that second part that got my back up as opposed to the first. I can't have much sympathy with a person who continuously ignores the hateful content produced by someone, just because it's apparently a "joke" or a "meme". I see this stuff ALL the time, look at the outrage over Pewdiepie, so many of his defenders used the exact same arguments you are using, but to any NORMAL person, to anyone who hasn't bought into the bs that your offline life and online persona/life is completely seperate, it's inexcusable. In what context is telling someone to go kill themselves by drinking bleach acceptable? In what context is allowing a man to graphically describe the violence he would inflict upon a woman acceptable? You seem to want to keep doubling down and refusing to see how, even with full context, those comments look REALLY bad. Imagine if anyone, anyone else who didn't base their career solely on the internet said those things? They'd be destroyed, their career would be damaged, but apparently it's okay on the internet for reasons. If it wouldn't be acceptable offline, it shouldn't be acceptable online, that's why the internet is so hosed nowadays because of that level of detachment. Edit: I can appreciate it sucks getting comments like these, I'm not trying to dogpile i'm just frustrated with seeing so many otherwise decent people fall for the same poo poo over and over again Ash Crimson fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 12:29
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kill me please
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Oct 11, 2017 12:29
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I found a channel of some kid reviewing toys, filmed and aided by his father or something. Over a hundred reviews, most having views in the single digits, and the newer ones tend to have none. The description states that this is a family-friendly channel and comments will be moderated. There are no comments.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:32
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Parents probably heard of this, put that as a warning in case it got big enough for a commenter culture to show up.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:40
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Ash Crimson posted:I can't have much sympathy with a person who continuously ignores the hateful content produced by someone, just because it's apparently a "joke" or a "meme". I see this stuff ALL the time, look at the outrage over Pewdiepie, so many of his defenders used the exact same arguments you are using, but to any NORMAL person, to anyone who hasn't bought into the bs that your offline life and online persona/life is completely seperate, it's inexcusable. That's fine, I wasn't asking for any sympathy. As far as bleach goes, ok then yeah that's poo poo - I'll take that cause yeah, poo poo happens on the Internet and it's not detached at all - I don't recall making an "It's the Internet" argument. In my example, if this thread were an office space, I would have just publically called my colleague a "snarky oval office" and I should probably expect to be fired or at the very least severely reprimanded. I will say that in the case of Sam Hyde, at least in what Fantano showed of it, he did try to give him an out before he went on that tirade and made a disclaimer at the start saying that he didn't agree with a lot of what he said. I think it would have been worse to either shut that down or to just edit it out completely...at least with Hyde saying that it's kinda clear who he is and what a dick he is - he comes off pretty horribly. But I stop short of thinking that Fantano was agreeing with it - that didn't seem to be the case really. I'm not really saying that all the things that he posted on the channel are bright and beautiful, because they certainly aren't. Again, I just think a lot of it was blown out of proportion when it comes to trying to paint him as some enabler for the alt-right, or even that he's alt-right himself - I think that's quite a serious accusation and in my mind, it needs to be correct and based in facts. Like, someone from the alt-right might be like "Yeah whooo" or whatever for a bit at some of the thatistheplan meme/satire poo poo ('cause that's always happened with satire), but then if they find the vid where he tears Paul Joseph Watson or whoever a new one, the goodwill is probably not going to last. ...Anyway, I'm probably gonna be done on this topic now 'cause there's not really anywhere else to go unless there's some other person who I happily got along with that I can insult. And yeah, sorry about that.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:52
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Ash Crimson posted:I can't have much sympathy with a person who continuously ignores the hateful content produced by someone, just because it's apparently a "joke" or a "meme". I see this stuff ALL the time, look at the outrage over Pewdiepie, so many of his defenders used the exact same arguments you are using, but to any NORMAL person, to anyone who hasn't bought into the bs that your offline life and online persona/life is completely seperate, it's inexcusable. I dunno man, even Bo Burnham didn't go that far.
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Oct 11, 2017 13:11
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Don't tell people to kill themselves. Tell them that they'll be the first ones up against the wall, or on the guillotine.
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Oct 11, 2017 13:13
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Kim Justice posted:Gee I dunno, something about a fellow peer misrepresenting my points and making out as though I'm defending some actual Nazi who was brought up in the thread seems to get my back up a little bit. Can't think why that would be. And to be precise, it's that second part that got my back up as opposed to the first. Man you are desperate to play the victim huh
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Oct 11, 2017 13:15
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Kim: I've seen more than a few relatively public figures go down a dark road so, at least for me, there's a lot of hesitation when it comes to seeing past the red flags. I don't follow Fantano and I'm at work so I can't really do any dives to see for myself, but maybe that provides some context for this problem you have with people, often in this thread, being quick to assume the worst, or at least be apprehensive. It's based on precedent. Edit: is this a new newbie av? These have been pretty unfortunate. Trojan Kaiju fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 13:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_PyyvgFLLI Coincidence?????????
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Oct 11, 2017 14:02
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I am very upset to hear about Joseph Anderson, a creator of some great video game critique videos, associating with Totalbiscuit's crew.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:04
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Old Swerdlow posted:I am very upset to hear about Joseph Anderson, a creator of some great video game critique videos, associating with Totalbiscuit's crew. It's hard to know for sure, because the guy doesn't say much on his twitter about things that aren't game-related, but I think he was just happy to get the bump. It's possible he doesn't actually know the issues people have with TB.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:10
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If you decide to not watch any game critics that associate with him, you probably won't have many options left. Dude's made friends with a ton of game critics on Youtube.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:18
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TheMaestroso posted:It's hard to know for sure, because the guy doesn't say much on his twitter about things that aren't game-related, but I think he was just happy to get the bump. It's possible he doesn't actually know the issues people have with TB. He also spends so much time playing games and working in videos that it started to put a strain on his family life, if I recall. Wouldn't be surprised if his online footprint didn't extend far past his videos.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:20
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Remember when everyone assumed the best about jontron, or that time about lordkat, or even just the Walker brothers? This thread is very cynical when it comes to red flags because every time someone is given the benefit of the doubt they turn out to not have deserved it. Do I think that the fantaman is a nazi? No I genuinely don't, but he associates with and panders to actual white supremacists and that's not something I'm comfortable with.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:23
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watho posted:Remember when everyone assumed the best about jontron, or that time about lordkat, or even just the Walker brothers? i'm at the point where i just assume all internet men are terrible until proven otherwise
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Oct 11, 2017 14:25
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watho posted:Remember when everyone assumed the best about jontron, or that time about lordkat, or even just the Walker brothers? Exactly. A lot of times when some of the poo poo slips it's because it's trying not to burst. I try to stay cautiously optimistic but man is it easy to be disappointed.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:37
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Even the Milkshake Duck guy ended up Milkshake Duck'ing himself, it's hard not to be skeptical.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:39
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