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Yeah I thought she was fixin to ice him, all she'd have to do is shove him in the recycler, edit the last couple hours out of his backup memories or whatever before pluggin him in a new body, super easy and she probably does it all the time. I mean that's not an exaggeration, we've seen they do literally murder their own androids for really questionable reasons, all the time. Of all possible excuses for that, protecting the big lie the whole war hinges on seems like a pretty believable one.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:35
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I think the Commander is heading off any incoming blame from 9S at the pass. In essence, she's letting him have the same information she has, and daring him to make a different decision about it. This is not a rational risk to take in the sense of perpetuating the deception at any cost, but if you consider her mental well-being, it may be worth a shot to have anyone else in the Bunker sharing the burden with her and more or less reassuring her that her choice is the least awful one. If you look at it this way, she's not doing this because it's smart, she's doing this because she's desperately lonely and terrified of being wrong.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:41
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Zoe posted:Yeah I thought she was fixin to ice him, all she'd have to do is shove him in the recycler, edit the last couple hours out of his backup memories or whatever before pluggin him in a new body, super easy and she probably does it all the time. She doesn't even have to gently caress with his memories. He isn't automatically backing up, so she could just ice him and he forgets what the gently caress happened since the last time, like in the prologue.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:47
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For me the big surprise is that the Yorha androids are just based off a previous generation of combat androids. I thought for sure the twist was going to be that each model’s unique looks and personalities are based off actual humans. Like, I thought somewhere on the moon was an original shy awkward human boy that 9S is based off of.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:54
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FAT BATMAN posted:For me the big surprise is that the Yorha androids are just based off a previous generation of combat androids. I thought for sure the twist was going to be that each model’s unique looks and personalities are based off actual humans. Like, I thought somewhere on the moon was an original shy awkward human boy that 9S is based off of. don't doxx me
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Oct 11, 2017 21:56
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exploded mummy posted:She doesn't even have to gently caress with his memories. poo poo maybe this isn't the first time she's told him
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Oct 11, 2017 22:16
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Poland Spring posted:poo poo maybe this isn't the first time she's told him Today even.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:22
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Maybe that's why 2B is so cold to him? She knows it's just a matter of time? 9S: Hello, ma'am *INDUSTRIAL JUICING ACCIDENT* 9S: Hello ma'am *FAULTY CPU SHORTS OUT* 9S: Hello ma'am *TELEPORT ERROR, DATA STREAM TRANSMITTED TO NEPTUNE* 9S: Hello ma'am *TRIPS, FALLS INTO RECYCLER* 9S: Hello ma'am *STEPS THROUGH WRONG DOOR, SHOT INTO SPACE WHEN AIRLOCK CYCLES* Etc, etc...
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Oct 11, 2017 22:33
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:Maybe that's why 2B is so cold to him? She knows it's just a matter of time? Given her previous behavior that a rather disturbingly probable idea.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:40
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Chokes McGee posted:emil's been in charge this entire time Hey, he is the last known surviving human. Why not put him in charge?
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Oct 11, 2017 22:42
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I bought this game after playing the demo thinking it'd be some hybrid of Bayonetta and a light shmup, with what everyone was saying was a cool story. I wound up not really enjoying it, and stopped at the end of Route A. The combat wasn't near as good as Bayonetta, there was barely any shmup stuff, and the story seemed really boring. I didn't get into the sidequests because I already hated the backtracking and the first one I tried was that bullshit parade that is in no way marked as too high level for you. I've been enjoying reading this LP. But Route B looks even more boring to play. I figured that if the story of Route B looked cool from the LP, I would pick up my save and try to get to the end of the game before TDI did. But if I had gone through Route B only to get the "twist" that humanity was already dead I would have been pretty pissed off. I can't believe this second large chunk of the game is still just preamble! I'm still eager to see what's left in this LP. It's presented really well by TDI and I'm sure there are more surprises to come. But I can't help but think that making the player go on for 20 hours with a pretty rote plot (and some neat little grim vignettes here and there) is not that great.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:47
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Forgive me if this is lore nerding, but I always assumed the Replicants died off before the Gestalts. The black scrawl affects Replicants whose corresponding Gestalt has relapsed, but after the Shadowlord died, all Gestalts relapsed. So I assumed that the Replicants ate it within a generation or two, maximum, while the Shades were able to live on as feral animals for a while, centuries, even, considering that they don't seem to age, until they eventually died out due to their inability to reproduce. Also, 9S right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7HmltUWXgs&t=53s
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Oct 11, 2017 23:46
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amigolupus posted:Honestly, I'm just surprised the Commander was so chill letting 9S know about the entire thing, giving him a document explaining things AND letting him go. The way she had you there alone made me think she was planning to kill you for knowing too much. Or had some other YorHa members with her and declare 9S a traitor on some made-up charges and had him killed on the spot. I love this part. In a JRPG this would kick off a bombastic boss fight where we find out the Commander has three different forms and must kill us "for you have learned... THE TRUTH!" After the fight there would be a brief dialogue scene and then nothing would change. In this case though, what's the harm in telling 9S? It's all pointless anyway, why kill to hide an almost pointless secret? I wonder how long the Commander has been in charge? Being up ont he space station rather than fighting on Earth would mean she may have hundreds or thousands of years of memories due to never needing to be recycled.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:57
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MysticalMachineGun posted:In this case though, what's the harm in telling 9S? It's all pointless anyway, why kill to hide an almost pointless secret? I wonder how long the Commander has been in charge? Being up ont he space station rather than fighting on Earth would mean she may have hundreds or thousands of years of memories due to never needing to be recycled. But is it pointless? That secret may be the only thing keeping the entire android "society" functioning. To learn that the reason for their entire existence is long since gone, and that they've been enduring millennia of war for literally nothing might just cause some problems.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:07
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What helped alleviate the rehashing of plot in route b for me, other than the new sidequests, was hunting down all those locked chests for bits of lore. There's actually quite a lot of it sitting around, and the story bits take up a lot less time than they appear to from a screenshot LP viewpoint.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:50
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This fits in really well with the existentialist themes of the game. Humanity's been dead all along and your whole life is based on a lie. Now what are you going to do?
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Oct 12, 2017 01:18
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I love how this is just such an underwhelming twist. Everyone who's played Nier already knows better. Everyone who hasn't played Nier can still probably see it coming just from all the hints the game drops. What matters isn't' the twist, what matters is how that twist recontextualizes everything. That's the whole reason there's a Route A and Route B. They could have just made those two separate, intersecting storylines, not the same storyline twice, but they did because people know Yoko Taro's game now, they know his style, they're expecting weirdness and a twist at some point. Route A doesn't have the twist, because it's all about setting up expectations. The existentialism themes, the parallels between androids and machines, the whole idea of fighting forever for no reason. All those ideas are setup during Route A, but it's all looking glass stuff. We see it but don't engage with it because 2B is super straightforward and all about getting the job done and doesn't waste time with questions or self-reflection. Route B is where he twists those expectations and holds up the mirror. There's a reason the opening moments of Route B have you controlling a machine before 9S. It's explicitly saying that machines are no different from androids, even to the point where they're under the player's control (if you hack them, at least). And now we get another resemblance, that just like the aliens, humans have been dead the whole time. What's interesting is that now we know what 9S knows... but we're not at the end of Route B yet. So we're in a weird situation where we know that 9S knows humanity is dead, but 2B doesn't. And we know he doesn't tell her before Route A is done.
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Oct 12, 2017 01:41
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Honestly, I'm surprised Nines' reaction to this wasn't just "...well, duh. You know everyone has figured that out, right?".
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Oct 12, 2017 01:47
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It's less a twist and more confirmation that everything you've been fighting for is meaningless. just like real life
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Oct 12, 2017 01:48
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I'm gonna guess that realizing this is the "logic virus" that's been going around.
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Oct 12, 2017 01:58
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Reminder that Drakengard Route B wasn't weird at all until the final boss. At which point it became so horrifying that the sound of the screaming still haunts me to this day.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:02
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SatansBestBuddy posted:I love how this is just such an underwhelming twist. Everyone who's played Nier already knows better. Everyone who hasn't played Nier can still probably see it coming just from all the hints the game drops. Yeah route B is weird in that it's kinda boring and repetitive, and yet super necessary to the story since you do find out key things. Not just in terms of story, but also the hacking mechanics. Billzasilver posted:Reminder that Drakengard Route B wasn't weird at all until the final boss. At which point it became so horrifying that the sound of the screaming still haunts me to this day. I'm not sure what you're talking abo- 
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Oct 12, 2017 02:50
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It's great because it's arguably the ending where Inuart gets the most owned. Anyhow, I personally enjoyed Automata's route B because there's enough new stuff here and there to keep things interesting, and it's not like the repeated content is particularly long to clear. I can understand that someone who doesn't care much about the story or the setting wouldn't like it though.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:15
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Schwartzcough posted:But is it pointless? That secret may be the only thing keeping the entire android "society" functioning. To learn that the reason for their entire existence is long since gone, and that they've been enduring millennia of war for literally nothing might just cause some problems. I think that finding out that the aliens are dead too was already going to mess things up pretty badly. That was pretty clearly new information.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:32
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AdmiralViscen posted:I bought this game after playing the demo thinking it'd be some hybrid of Bayonetta and a light shmup, with what everyone was saying was a cool story. May be an unpopular opinion here, but I agree. I played the game through all the main endings, and I remember nothing crazy happening plotwise, yet everyone is very excited about all the twists. Starting to make me wonder if I missed a bunch of content.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:39
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maybe hold off on your discussion of how you feel about the whole game in an ongoing LP thread about the game
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Oct 12, 2017 04:45
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really queer Christmas posted:Yeah route B is weird in that it's kinda boring and repetitive, and yet super necessary to the story since you do find out key things. Not just in terms of story, but also the hacking mechanics. yeah right about when her eyes went funny was when I decided never to sleep again 
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Oct 12, 2017 05:37
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Hacking makes you so strong that getting through Route B is such a breeze I never found it particularly tedious.
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Oct 12, 2017 06:29
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I had to wait until now for it not to be a spoiler, but: notice that the YorHa motto is "for the glory of mankind." Not "for mankind," not "for the defense of mankind," but "for the glory."
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Oct 12, 2017 07:59
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megane posted:I had to wait until now for it not to be a spoiler, but: notice that the YorHa motto is "for the glory of mankind." Not "for mankind," not "for the defense of mankind," but "for the glory." Mankind did such a bang up job on things. Kinda silly that the machines have space faring vehicles and yet, never developed scanner allowing them to scan the moon for lifesigns.
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Oct 12, 2017 09:41
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Darth TNT posted:Mankind did such a bang up job on things. Similarly you could ask if the androids have this technology to give themselves biological parts why didn’t they try to revive humans through cloning using the remaining gestalt genetic information. Then again the reason might be quasi-religious
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Oct 12, 2017 10:24
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If you clone a human in Nier I think you just get a replicant and they die of acute lack of a soul itis.
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Oct 12, 2017 11:14
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Yeah, living Gestalts are required to make Replicants. Living Gestalts are also required to keep your replicants, too, what with the wasting disease and all. I think that connection is there because it's all Magic-tech and stuff.
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Oct 12, 2017 11:44
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:Maybe that's why 2B is so cold to him? She knows it's just a matter of time?
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Oct 12, 2017 12:00
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Consider that no matter what you do, short of actual time travel or dimension hopping over to kidnap some guys from the Drakengard world, human culture is dead. Even if you were to recreate a perfectly normal and functional human being, how would it behave? All it would have to go on is android culture and their imperfect memories of human culture. The androids place a great importance on what humans did, not just what they were, and even Adam and Eve's main purpose in being imitation humans seems to be to better mimic human activities. Adam wants to think like a human, not like a human that thinks like an android.
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Oct 12, 2017 12:09
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cokerpilot posted:Given her previous behavior that a rather disturbingly probable idea. Probable? I'd say it's drat near confirmed. Everything we're seeing is screaming that this is not the first time a lot of this has happened.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:35
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The machine orgy and subsequent birth of Adam and Eve was probably new, though.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:48
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Nina posted:Hacking makes you so strong that getting through Route B is such a breeze I never found it particularly tedious. I found Route A to be pretty tedious on its own. Running back and forth over the same few environments fighting even fewer enemy types. I think it would be better if the sidequests were mandatory. Many of them are so abstract or briefly available that you'd need to play with a guide in front of you to even experience them. And since the designers can't know how many you have done, the characters are always making the same observations over and over.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:51
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Sindai posted:If you clone a human in Nier I think you just get a replicant and they die of acute lack of a soul itis. Speculation: Androids are just replicants with beep boop computer programming instead of Gestalts.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:41
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AdmiralViscen posted:I think it would be better if the sidequests were mandatory. Many of them are so abstract or briefly available that you'd need to play with a guide in front of you to even experience them. And since the designers can't know how many you have done, the characters are always making the same observations over and over. trolled by
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Oct 12, 2017 17:43
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