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Shinji117 posted:Yeah, this is pretty easy for us with the internet and all, but for a small child operating from mostly their own knowledge this one is kinda tricksy. I'm humble-proud that this was the only hint I needed. C. 78
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Oct 13, 2017 15:59
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Yup, C. 78 it is. Man, this one would be a lot harder in person without google/a periodic table handy. [End Riddle.] See, this is how Eva's scene from earlier should have gone.
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Oct 13, 2017 16:01
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C. 78 Man, I think the only reason I recognized the pattern is because I'm so used to those metals other video games... (and I still needed google)
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Oct 13, 2017 16:10
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Oh, and also:ProfessorProf posted:Apparently, Uncle Krauss once had this puzzle shown to him, and he wasn't able to answer it right. He looked a bit downcast to see a kid like me solve it. For some reason, he looked even more mortified to see that Eva had solved it. 
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Oct 13, 2017 16:11
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^^ Oh yeah, Krauss is the type who would miss such a detail...I can just about see the really complicated notes he came up with in order to present his answer, too, only to be called an idiot by dad. And have his notes torn up. And probably punched for it. Kinzo, you dick.ProfessorProf posted:
Aww, that's actually sweet. And rather abrupt, considering things, but this entire scenario, despite being a charming playhouse for Ange, has felt the same for everyone else, and their respective issues. It's meant to be for Ange, I get it, but for everyone else, I can't shake a feeling of Battler just going "And YOU get redemption, and YOU get redemption, and YOU get redemption..." And that's really not how redemption works at all. It can be argued that "redemption" isn't the point here, but if I had known what Ange thought she knew- and that's this entire story- I wonder if I would be able to accept such an answer that seems so... pat. But I'm not Ange, and she seems to be enjoying herself, so... what do I know? Besides, I like the jagged edge that Beato still has in this interaction- they're obviously not letting Natsuhi off the hook for the guilt she feels (which is completely fair, given the whole "pushing a baby off a cliff" thing, even without the severe scarring and subsequent implied dysphoria), but they recognize her sorrow and accept that Natsuhi has changed and grown as a person- and most importantly, they lay the blame exactly where it should go. (Hint: it's on Kinzo. The man just over yonder. He knows what he's done, even if we're clearly not allowed to talk about it. What an rear end in a top hat  )But the riddle- yeah, it's C-78. It wasn't silver I recognized, but good old Aurum 79. Cheeky boy, going for elements in a puzzle for a six year old... resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 16:40
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"Your cross is a heavy one, doubtless. I can feel compassion for you now. I'm serious. After all, Kinzo was the one at fault, right? It's his fault for having an illegitimate child in the first place! And the way he forced that child on you was even worse! He should at least have been able to avoid hurting you by saying 'please take care of this poor child', instead of 'you can't give birth, so adopt this kid'. Men! That Kinzo...!"
"..."
"Then let's do it this way. Hold out your arms."
"H, huh? L, like this...?"
"I'll never say this again, so let me say it once. After all, I never had a chance to meet my mother."
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resurgam40 posted:But I'm not Ange, and she seems to be enjoying herself, so... what do I know? I think this is still piece-Ange in control right now, who is having a blast, not 1998-Ange. The latter can see all this, but may or may not be paying attention.
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Oct 13, 2017 17:14
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Zack Ater posted:
yeah i also tried a similar method to reach a answer. I originally thought that its more of a see by how much it increased type of problem. the first leap was 16 coins and the second was 32 coins. but the answers didnt match any of the next possibilities. So C:78 seems correct (though giving that type of question to a 6 year old, really kanon?)
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Oct 13, 2017 17:19
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I'm a
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resurgam40 posted:^^ Oh yeah, Krauss is the type who would miss such a detail...I can just about see the really complicated notes he came up with in order to present his answer, too, only to be called an idiot by dad. And have his notes torn up. And probably punched for it. Kinzo, you dick. And, even though Yasu lived, Natsuhi is absolutely a murderer, because the servant didn't. And it's hardly like Yasu got away unscathed. While there's many different interpretations one could make of Yasu's specific gender identity and gender issues, I think we can all agree that Yasu would have been happier if they hadn't had the induced dysphoria of developing 'wrong' without knowing why.
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Oct 13, 2017 17:24
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resurgam40 posted:
The version in the manga (which uses a game of hide and seek rather than all these puzzles) is even sweeter. It makes it a little more clear that this isn't about forgiveness, but closure ... something that's too often used as a weasel word for revenge, but not in this case.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:37
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resurgam40 posted:But I'm not Ange, and she seems to be enjoying herself, so... what do I know? Besides, I like the jagged edge that Beato still has in this interaction- they're obviously not letting Natsuhi off the hook for the guilt she feels (which is completely fair, given the whole "pushing a baby off a cliff" thing, even without the severe scarring and subsequent implied dysphoria), but they recognize her sorrow and accept that Natsuhi has changed and grown as a person- and most importantly, they lay the blame exactly where it should go. (Hint: it's on Kinzo. The man just over yonder. He knows what he's done, even if we're clearly not allowed to talk about it. What an rear end in a top hat As someone else mentioned, it wasn't just Yasu pushed off the cliff; a servant was also killed (which is especially bad when you remember most of the servants were teenagers from Fukuin). Also, it's not just ugly scarring or something; the actual parts were destroyed (thus the "literally can't 'love'" stuff). I only mention this because I feel that the fact it wasn't just a cosmetic thing is very important.
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Oct 13, 2017 21:32
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I immediately guessed the pattern  but would have had to look up the actual number for this one.
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Oct 13, 2017 21:59
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Ytlaya posted:As someone else mentioned, it wasn't just Yasu pushed off the cliff; a servant was also killed (which is especially bad when you remember most of the servants were teenagers from Fukuin). I'm not sure why you're all hung up about physical damage to the genitals. My interpretation of that line was some manner of brain damage (pituitary gland, lack of FSH/LH) which kept Yasu from developing a sex drive, hence "incapable of love". This would also correspond to "small/looks young for their age", the fact that both Shannon and Kanon are shown with long hair despite the other servants having very "professional" haircuts, etc, if they were attempting to hide scarring at the back of the head. It's also a lot less icky, for whatever that's worth.
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Oct 14, 2017 03:59
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Kytrarewn posted:I'm not sure why you're all hung up about physical damage to the genitals. My interpretation of that line was some manner of brain damage (pituitary gland, lack of FSH/LH) which kept Yasu from developing a sex drive, hence "incapable of love". This would also correspond to "small/looks young for their age", the fact that both Shannon and Kanon are shown with long hair despite the other servants having very "professional" haircuts, etc, if they were attempting to hide scarring at the back of the head. I still maintain that's not even necessary - it could simply be a perception of Yasu's that it's the case. Regarding yourself as "incapable of love" in no way requires that actually be the case, it simply means that you believe that to be true.
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Oct 14, 2017 04:51
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Seeing Krauss bamboozled is perfect. 
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Oct 14, 2017 04:55
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Kytrarewn posted:I'm not sure why you're all hung up about physical damage to the genitals. My interpretation of that line was some manner of brain damage (pituitary gland, lack of FSH/LH) which kept Yasu from developing a sex drive, hence "incapable of love". There's a manga page where Yasu is reading an anatomy book, looking very puzzled. Yasu's sex drive is probably fine. If nothing else the character designs betray a healthy interest in thighs. 
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Oct 14, 2017 05:27
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Ytlaya posted:As someone else mentioned, it wasn't just Yasu pushed off the cliff; a servant was also killed (which is especially bad when you remember most of the servants were teenagers from Fukuin). The servant was stated as being old. Not that it makes it better.
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Oct 14, 2017 07:02
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all old people are evil sooooo
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Oct 14, 2017 07:14
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Kytrarewn posted:I'm not sure why you're all hung up about physical damage to the genitals. My interpretation of that line was some manner of brain damage (pituitary gland, lack of FSH/LH) which kept Yasu from developing a sex drive, hence "incapable of love". This would also correspond to "small/looks young for their age", the fact that both Shannon and Kanon are shown with long hair despite the other servants having very "professional" haircuts, etc, if they were attempting to hide scarring at the back of the head. Manga aside (which as tiistai mentioned makes it all-but-explicit, but I'm assuming we're just using the VN as a source in this thread), the specific nature of the injury is vital to understanding the source of the Yasu's gender dysphoria and utter terror/hopelessness at the idea of consummating her relationship with George (or any other relationship for that matter). If she "merely" had some sort of brain damage resulting in no sex drive, the EP2 scene where Beato rants "I'll turn you into a filthy maggot then we'll see if that glasses guy still loves you" while discussing the general topic of physical intimacy wouldn't make much sense. The superficial reading might be some general commentary about George/men only caring about her appearance or whatever, but this is a scene between two aspects of Yasu's personality and is clearly getting at something more directly and specifically relevant to her. Also, there's a reason why it was specifically mentioned that George and Shannon slept in different rooms during their date at the aquarium; if they hadn't it would have been a Big Deal because he would have discovered the situation with her body. It also very neatly explains the main motive behind the creation of Kanon. While it's possible to come up with a plausible alternative explanation (that Yasu was just naturally non-binary or something), everything fits together far better and more simply if you just assume that the creation of Kanon, her furniture complex, and her terror/hopelessness about love/relationships are all directly connected to being someone who was DMAB and raised as a girl after Nanjo's surgery on the injury from the fall. MonsterEnvy posted:The servant was stated as being old. Not that it makes it better. Ahhh, I forgot that. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 07:50
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Yeah, we haven't quite gotten the part where it's fair game to talk about the EP8 Manga, but there's a canonical section that was added in under direction of the author solely to answer questions like this, which EP7 left somewhat ambiguous. I hadn't read the manga part until very recently myself and it was very elucidating. So I hope we can have some discussion about that later on in this episode.
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Oct 14, 2017 12:26
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 BGM: Stuffed Toy  "Awesome, Aunt Eva! Why?! Why is it 78 coins?! If platinum is better than gold, then why does gold get more coins?!" "The number of coins you get is always the same as the atomic number of the prize. Copper is 29, silver is 47, and gold is 79. And, by the way, platinum is 78. So, the platinum prize gets you 78 gold coins." "E, Aunt Eva, you're incredible!!"Dad once told me that Aunt Eva was an enthusiastic studier, and really, really smart even back when she was in school. Even George onii-chan, her son, is smart, so Aunt Eva must really be incredible.  "Still, that was a pretty nasty riddle to choose. You should have at least given one that Ange could understand." "You did give me permission to show her the hardest one I've got." "...That's right. You said it yourself. That's why we got a puzzle that was too hard for me." "Nnggggggggggghhhh...!! I, is it my fault? Sorry, Ange-chan... But look, we got a medal, so please forgive me."We got another medal. Just how many have we gotten so far? But we still have a lot left to get. Next up is Shannon.   BGM: Praise  "...Since you only have to think on Nee-san's level." "Y, you're making fun of me...! Then do you want to have a go at it too, Kanon-kun?" "Bring it on." "It sounds like you'll be able to understand it this time, Ange-chan. I'll stick to giving hints again." "Okay, I'll do my best. I'll solve it. Another medal for me." "Let's go then. Listen carefully..." Eva's Hint "W" "A" "B" "I" "O" Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Oct 14, 2017 13:46
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Hm. I've got nothing. O - lemonade keeps it from being the first letter. I can't think of anything that WPAO and one of the choices would spell. Maybe lemonade's different because it's a drink while the others are foods? In which case black coffee would be different as well. Or maybe lemonade's different because it's a single word, while the others are two, in which case black coffee would be like the others, so the answer would be c. b, though that doesn't seem like great logic so that's not a vote...
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Oct 14, 2017 14:05
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Zack Ater posted:Or maybe lemonade's different because it's a single word, while the others are two, in which case black coffee would be like the others, so the answer would be c. b, though that doesn't seem like great logic so that's not a vote... Either way, if we assume that the letter has to be in the word, it can't be O or A because those equal lemonade and anchovy pizza, respectively. And since they're putting it in the order they are, that indicates uniqueness on the part of the letter. This locks out W, also. Can anyone come up with a compelling case for I? All of the foods include the letter "A" in their English spellings, but I can't find a way to turn that into any of the puzzle answers. D. I That's a really good point about the flavors. I think I was thrown off by lemonade (usually sweet) and pepperjack (spicy in the context of cheese, but not really spicy on an absolute scale), but sAlty anchovies and sWeet white chocolate should have been more of a hint for me. Kytrarewn fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 14:33
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huh am i overthinking it? I should have guessed that this one would be trickier than is immediately apparent. EDIT:Well if witchcore says so ill go with that reasoning. Well im going to guess D:I lookw fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 15:40
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Maybe the 'O' for Lemonade isn't supposed to be a letter, but a zero or null space, as in there is no descriptor word before this one. In which case the answer would be "B" Or maybe we're just supposed to use process of elimination and assume each letter is unique, so "W", "A", and "O" are out, and the letter must be in the word so "I" is out, leaving only "B" I'm just gonna leave it here for now and hear some other ideas before I start engaging in numerology. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 16:53
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Whoa, this riddle is basically everything I ate yesterday. Creepy. I don't think the solution is some weird numbers poo poo--it's gotta be wordplay. Edit: one thing that is interesting is that all of the items are easy examples of strong flavors. Notice that none of them taste similar to the others. Salty, sweet, sour, spicy... and bitter. So I'm gonna go with D. I Maybe this is why I have indigestion today. Yuck. witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 17:57
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I'm just gonna copy witchcore and vote D. I
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Oct 14, 2017 18:31
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I'm leaning towards choice D as well now. You've got sWeet white chocolate, sPicy pepperjack cheese, sAlty anchovy pizza, sOur lemonade and bItter black coffee. The first three foodstuffs starting with the second letter of their taste is there to throw you off when you get to lemonade and sour, as is the first four tastes starting with an S so you sit there wondering how to get a taste for black coffee that also starts with an S.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:31
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Yeah, someone I was talking with said second letter of the taste as well. I'll go with D. I as well.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:34
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poo poo, yeah, words aren't just words, they represent actual things. (Hey that's a really good hint Eva could give.) Also explains what the hell D."I" is doing in the options to begin with. But how was Ange supposed to know what black coffee tastes like?
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Oct 14, 2017 18:42
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Interesting that they went for P for spicy instead of M for umami. (Since A for savory would already be taken.)
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Oct 14, 2017 18:49
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idonotlikepeas posted:Interesting that they went for P for spicy instead of M for umami. (Since A for savory would already be taken.) Ooh, M - Miso soup would be a good one for that.
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Oct 14, 2017 19:11
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Yep, exactly. Maybe they were worried that would make it harder, though.
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Oct 14, 2017 19:40
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Odds are the original probably had that.
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Oct 14, 2017 19:50
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D. "I". Did not occur to me that it was the second letter of the word describing the taste. But that's why I'm not the one who solved the epitaph.
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Oct 14, 2017 23:11
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Ytlaya posted:Also, there's a reason why it was specifically mentioned that George and Shannon slept in different rooms during their date at the aquarium; if they hadn't it would have been a Big Deal because he would have discovered the situation with her body. EP6 posted:
Even without the manga's additions, the idea that Yasu's injury comes down to brain damage or simply her own perception of herself doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. I honestly think it is vital to understanding Yasu and her story to grasp that when she says she has a body "incapable of love", it is deadly serious and she is probably not entirely wrong about the impact it has on her succeeding in any of her relationships. It's not an issue she can just overcome with positive thinking or self-love or anything like that. That makes the exploration of her problems and how she expresses them extremely difficult in many ways, but also extremely important.
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Oct 14, 2017 23:23
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"That dream future that George-sama has imagined for you two... is something you can never give him."
"W, well..."
"...We aren't humans. We're furniture, inferior to them. George-sama only thinks that you're human."
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Raelle posted:It's not an issue she can just overcome with positive thinking or self-love or anything like that. It's an issue that could be overcome with some creative thinking and generous quantities of lube. I mean, it's not a non-factor in a relationship, but we're talking about two potential partners who have demonstrated a willingness to kill their family in order to make this relationship work, after a bit of shock they'd probably work something out. But Yasu never gives either of them the chance, instead assuming the worst and going straight to murder-suicide. Thus the tragedy.
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Oct 14, 2017 23:55
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ZiegeDame posted:It's an issue that could be overcome with some creative thinking and generous quantities of lube. I mean, it's not a non-factor in a relationship, but we're talking about two potential partners who have demonstrated a willingness to kill their family in order to make this relationship work, after a bit of shock they'd probably work something out. But Yasu never gives either of them the chance, instead assuming the worst and going straight to murder-suicide. Thus the tragedy. Not everyone, or even most people (especially in 1980's Japan), would be willing to stay in a romantic relationship where conventional intercourse wasn't possible. Yasu would be 100% correct in assuming that the odds are strongly against her when it comes to succeeding in any relationship where the person isn't aware of her situation upfront. Also, her situation is probably different than someone who is trans in this regard; there's a good chance she doesn't even have the "materials" necessary for modern conversion surgery (and that's assuming conversion surgery was of similar quality in the 1980's, which I have no idea about). Though even if she were trans she'd be facing an uphill battle given her location/circumstances. Most importantly, however, there's next to nothing she can do to influence the situation. It's entirely up to her partner whether they're okay with having a relationship under those circumstances, and she doesn't have any control beyond that.
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Oct 15, 2017 07:21
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Geroge even said he wants kids. So she is likely even more afraid of rejection because of that. It's kind of awful she decides on death rather then revealing the truth. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 08:09
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Don't forget that Sayo was so terrified of finding out the answer that they blew up an island and family/loved ones rather than find out. Yes, in ideal circumstances George wouldn't care and they'd live happily ever after, but Sayo'd been burned waiting on ideal circumstances before  .E: I had previous posts hidden and just now saw ZD touched on this point too so I guess I'm just restating stuff lol. Woops.
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Oct 15, 2017 12:28
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Bumping to the next page.
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Oct 15, 2017 13:56
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