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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:We have had productive discussions in the past, but you haven't changed my opinion of your peers. I have totally been corrected on some things that are important by leftist in other threads and this one, but you have yet to examine your end of the discussion and how it may be part of the problem. I do not oppose leftist goals, i oppose people on the internet spouting pointless venom, who also have literally no self awareness. You literally spend most every post getting super mad at people whose only crime is to see the current dem establishment for the incompetent clownshow it is.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:59
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Condiv posted:am i one of the leftist nazis? who are these leftist nazis? loam, and many of his fellow centrist tribalists, are still extremely mad that Trump finally did something that affected their lives he took "alt-left" from them
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Oct 17, 2017 18:02
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Condiv posted:am i one of the leftist nazis? who are these leftist nazis? I don't think you yourself are a nazi, but i do think that there are nazi like mindsets among the people you agree with, and it is important to root that out and kill it with fire. Ze Pollack posted:there is no shortage of ostensible leftists who have confused a list of people they're allowed to hate for an ideology. fortunately, they can be taught to channel those energies in a useful direction- to advocate FOR things instead of being trapped in the endless, lovely cycle of only being against the hated other. I am not going to engage with you because you're obviously not interested in a good faith discussion. Majorian posted:Of him personally? Sure, knock yourself out - call him a Nazi all you like. I did call him a nazi, but people took issue when I pointed out that the left has no problem with nazi like behavior when it happens to agree with their viewpoints. None of the so called leftists in this thread blinked an eye at his comment, yet took extreme issue with me pointing it out. That's what I take issue with. Majorian, I do not think you are a nazi or condone naxi like behavoir. I do however think you are blinded by the same partisanship you claim to be above. I am guilty of this myself and am working on improving it. Discussions with you have helped me do this. I would like to help you as well, because in the end we agree on most things. We're just on different sides of a similar idea, and need to hash it out in order to understand each other's reasoning and viewpoints. I try to do this in good faith, but i o lash out at those i feel are being disingenuous. if you think I am doing that too then please call me out on it, and i will try and be self critical. Cerebral Bore posted:You literally spend most every post getting super mad at people whose only crime is to see the current dem establishment for the incompetent clownshow it is. Someone has to balance out the endless posts spouting off their tiresome lines about centrists and the evil evil establishment.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:18
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Someone has to balance out the endless posts spouting off their tiresome lines about centrists and the evil evil establishment. JeffersonClay already exists. Why do you desire to join him.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:22
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I did call him a nazi, but people took issue when I pointed out that the left has no problem with nazi like behavior when it happens to agree with their viewpoints. This is what you said: quote:But the left isn't like the nazi's because... You compared the left to Nazis, dude. And given how often you unambiguously declare yourself an enemy of the left, it's pretty clearly what you believe, on some level.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:24
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Ze Pollack posted:JeffersonClay already exists. Why do you desire to join him. He's his own brand of lovely, and I want nothing to do with him. I have no issue with calling out other "centrists" who are loving racist idiots. Also, his whatboutism gets really tiring.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:25
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What are you worried about happening Loam? What is the possible bad outcome you are worried about if the leftists have their way? The reason why your attitude is so bizarre is that literally every single criticism you could levy against the left could also be levied against mainstream Democrats/liberals, but to an even greater extent.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:32
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I have here, on my alienware gaming laptop, a .txt list of some 30+ leftist nazi posters and leftist poster with nazisesque tendencies. I will be forwarding this list to d&d moderators with the expectation of prompt probation and/or banning. You have been warned
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Oct 17, 2017 18:33
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Majorian posted:This is what you said: Because people chose to ignore his nazi like comment to score points on hillary clinton? don't you see that as a problem? If someone does something a nazi would do, and is left unconfronted, what are the conclusions one should draw from that? I am not an enemy of the left, and have never declared myself to be. I advocate for the same things the left does on a daily basis. I do however want no part in the toxic vitriol some of left spreads online, and will push back against it when I see it.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:37
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:He's his own brand of lovely, and I want nothing to do with him. I have no issue with calling out other "centrists" who are loving racist idiots. Also, his whatboutism gets really tiring. The counterbalance you claim to desire already exists, friend. If you are upset that its current provider makes your tribe look like a bunch of hopeless sycophants to power, that is a very different problem than the one you claimed to have. Own your position. It saves you a lot of trouble in the long run.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:39
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think you yourself are a nazi, but i do think that there are nazi like mindsets among the people you agree with, and it is important to root that out and kill it with fire. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:internet leftists are indistinguishable from internet nazis.  quote:I am not going to engage with you because you're obviously not interested in a good faith discussion.  Dude, I have repeatedly tried to get you to either walk back your statement about leftists "coming out of the woodwork" to defend a lovely post, or else put up some kind of proof. I.e., discussing in good faith. You've repeatedly refused to do either. All your "haha, I'm just as dirty as y'all" mea culpas mean nothing if it doesn't lead to improved behaviour. You're not in any position to call anyone out right now, because you're pretty much the same as NFS - you knee-jerk with lovely takes that paint with a ridiculously wide brush. quote:I did call him a nazi, but people took issue when I pointed out that the left has no problem with nazi like behavior when it happens to agree with their viewpoints. None of the so called leftists in this thread blinked an eye at his comment, yet took extreme issue with me pointing it out. Almost no one saw that post, and by the time anyone did the discussion had moved on. quote:Majorian, I do not think you are a nazi or condone naxi like behavoir. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:internet leftists are indistinguishable from internet nazis. quote:I try to do this in good faith, but i o lash out at those i feel are being disingenuous. if you think I am doing that too then please call me out on it, and i will try and be self critical. That's what's actually going on here, you just seem to be unable to see it.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:40
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Ytlaya posted:What are you worried about happening Loam? What is the possible bad outcome you are worried about if the leftists have their way? I am worried about the level to which the left will ignore fascists among them in order to advocate for their ideals. I will gladly call out anyone on "my team" for their lovely words, actions or beliefs as well. Rahm Emanuel? gently caress him and his racist 9 fingered police brutality supporting ways. Same goes for the Clintons and their interest in money over morality. I will not allow my beliefs to be defined by these people, I will however acknowledge the context of the past, people that contributed positive things. It turns out that people can be both good and bad, and nuance is key to understanding.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:43
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the retreat into tribal pablum about compromise and nuance is good to hear. quick question, though: what is the nuance in "internet leftists are indistinguishable from internet nazis"
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Oct 17, 2017 18:48
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I am worried about the level to which the left will ignore fascists among them in order to advocate for their ideals.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:51
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this, by the way, is why I said the path you are on leads to JeffersonClay. the position of defending the centrist wing of the democratic party involves an awful lot of defending the indefensible. it is taxing, mentally. this thing you are doing, right here- this shuffle between the sincere, plaintive call for nuance and the empty, smug dismissal of everyone to your left as being indistinguishable from Nazis- is the road that takes you to him. because that second one is so much loving easier. you are relieved of any of the energy involved in trying to advocate for anything you believe in. you just have to say the thing that you think will make Those Fuckers mad. you can keep yourself calm, cool, and collected, confident in the knowledge that you don't have to actually care about the things you are saying, as long as they and isn't your personal gratification far more important than any of that stupid politics nonsense
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Oct 17, 2017 18:53
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Falstaff posted:
In my opinion ignoring a comment like that and choosing to continue the discussion it was related to without even a comment is the same as defending it. Shitt ybehavoir on the left is ignored, while lovely behavoir of those you happen to ideologically disagree with are amplified. A little consistency would be nice. As far as painting with a wide brush, I don't see any pushback on the painting of a wide brush when it comes to democrats or "centrists," but when the same thing is done to the left it is a problem. I see this as a giant hypocrisy and do use the wide brush against leftists to drive this point home. The majority of those on the left want what I want, and are fighting the good fight, but there is a portion of these people that take things online to a level that is not very different from the /pol message boards.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:55
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friend I implore you, if you see a wolf amongst the flock just go ahead and point them out
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Oct 17, 2017 18:56
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:As far as painting with a wide brush, I don't see any pushback on the painting of a wide brush when it comes to democrats or "centrists," but when the same thing is done to the left it is a problem. I see this as a giant hypocrisy and do use the wide brush against leftists to drive this point home. The majority of those on the left want what I want, and are fighting the good fight, but there is a portion of these people that take things online to a level that is not very different from the /pol message boards. no you see I'm doing exactly the thing I hate but ~ironically~
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Oct 17, 2017 18:57
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Calibanibal posted:friend I implore you, if you see a wolf amongst the flock just go ahead and point them out I think that's what he's getting yelled at for.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:04
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:In my opinion ignoring a comment like that and choosing to continue the discussion it was related to without even a comment is the same as defending it. Shitt ybehavoir on the left is ignored, while lovely behavoir of those you happen to ideologically disagree with are amplified. A little consistency would be nice. And, again, you miss the point that it was not ignored. It was never seen in the first place. Your post calling it out didn't actually say what was wrong with it until you edited that in later. From what I can see, all of one post, pages later, actually explicitly refers to krystallnacht-ing anyone, and that's at a point when the discussion has pretty much moved on (and the poster in question was quite rightly mocked). The Trump thread moves fast because Trump is always doing or saying some new, lovely thing. Leftists are not blessed with clairvoyance. I wish we were, it would make a lot of things easier, but we're not. You're really going to hold leftist posters to a standard that requires us to decry posts, even if we were unlikely to see them, and even if we did see them decrying those posts would damage a conversation because the topic has long since moved on, while also calling for nuance and good faith? And at the same time not holding your own side to that kind of standard? I hate the smug ironicat smilie, but poo poo son...
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Oct 17, 2017 19:08
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I mean name them please
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Oct 17, 2017 19:08
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Nevvy Z posted:I think that's what he's getting yelled at for. we can't all have a list of people who need to die for their crimes against centrism, Nevvy
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Oct 17, 2017 19:09
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Also, if when you say "defend" what you really mean is "ignore," then you're speaking a different form of english from the rest of us and maybe you should keep that in mind.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:09
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:In my opinion ignoring a comment like that and choosing to continue the discussion it was related to without even a comment is the same as defending it. That's absurd. The dude had edited out the "kristallnacht" comment long before I wrote my reply, and he's a likely gimmick account anyway. Saying that ignoring him is the same as defending him is a really flimsy line of thinking.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:38
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Falstaff posted:Also, if when you say "defend" what you really mean is "ignore," then you're speaking a different form of english from the rest of us and maybe you should keep that in mind. The lack of acknowledgement and push back against that kind of thing is functionally the same as agreement with it. sorry. It may not be comfortable, but you gotta own that there are terrible people among both the center and left, and these people should not be tolerated. I've been told by leftist posters that I should be put up against the wall and shot, so I don't exactly have sympathy for your inability to see these people in your midst. Falstaff posted:And, again, you miss the point that it was not ignored. It was never seen in the first place. Your post calling it out didn't actually say what was wrong with it until you edited that in later. From what I can see, all of one post, pages later, actually explicitly refers to krystallnacht-ing anyone, and that's at a point when the discussion has pretty much moved on (and the poster in question was quite rightly mocked). The Trump thread moves fast because Trump is always doing or saying some new, lovely thing. The post I made was 3 or 4 posts after the one we are talking about, but it is hardly the only time I have seen that kind of sentiment completely ignored when it also happens to be bashing centrists or hillary clinton. Ze Pollack posted:no you see I'm doing exactly the thing I hate Ze Pollack posted:we can't all have a list of people who need to die for their crimes against centrism, Nevvy Nevvy Z posted:I think that's what he's getting yelled at for. Yeah, it's rather odd. Calibanibal posted:I mean name them please FishFizzle I think is the one i called out specifically that led us to this conversation.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:54
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The lack of acknowledgement and push back against that kind of thing is functionally the same as agreement with it. Remember when this was your viewpoint? Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Why do you pay attention to so many random people on twitter who have lovely opinions? I can go out and find twitter users from "the left" and rage about them all day long, but that would be incredibly stupid. Why do you think posting random people that supported clinton lends weight to your viewpoint?
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Oct 17, 2017 20:02
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:You have no problem parroting posts from /r/T_D so just stop. Also, i have never called for the death of anyone. not aware of having done that first one, but on the second point: rest assured, I'm not accusing you of nevvy's vice. a politics based on constant denunciation is not politics. it is a list of people you're allowed to be mad at. find something you can support. this should not be hard.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:02
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FishFizzle. Consider this my declaration of war
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Oct 17, 2017 20:06
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Someone has to balance out the endless posts spouting off their tiresome lines about centrists and the evil evil establishment. Yeah, good thing we have you here to cover for the people who have lost all power on every level of government to the goddamn Trump-fronted GOP and yet find it ten times more important to cling onto their personal power within the party than either trying to clean up their own mess or let somebody who's not a proven incompetent have a shot at fixing things. Real community service, that.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:08
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I will stand against FishFazzle and his leftist nazi army til my bones shatter and I cough up blood and organs
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Oct 17, 2017 20:11
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, good thing we have you here to cover for the people who have lost all power on every level of government to the goddamn Trump-fronted GOP and yet find it ten times more important to cling onto their personal power within the party than either trying to clean up their own mess or let somebody who's not a proven incompetent have a shot at fixing things. Real community service, that. I'm sure your vote for Bernie was worth more than my vote. I have no qualms about being critical of the Democrats that have led us astray, but I think the bigger issue is the idea that the Democrats are more responsible for the Nazis than the actual Nazis.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:12
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I'm sure your vote for Bernie was worth more than my vote. Which is something that no one is arguing, outside of a couple gimmick posters that you genuinely think represent the broader left. (which is why you compared them to Nazis)
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Oct 17, 2017 20:15
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I think the person who posted the Kristallnacht thing changed it and said he meant to refer to the Rohm Putsch / Night of the Long Knives, but hosed it up. Pretty egregious mistake to make of course. Not to mention, even saying we need to Rohm-Putsch the DNC is in really poor taste as well.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:01
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Kilroy posted:I think the person who posted the Kristallnacht thing changed it and said he meant to refer to the Rohm Putsch / Night of the Long Knives, but hosed it up. Pretty egregious mistake to make of course. Not to mention, even saying we need to Rohm-Putsch the DNC is in really poor taste as well. Yeah, but they didn't have a problem with it at all, and definitely supported his other statements.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:06
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Agreeing with someone on something doesn't mean you agree with them on everything. If I'm a vegetarian, that doesn't mean that I agree with Adolf Hitler's other policies. Likewise, someone can agree that Clintonites should be driven out of the Democratic Party without agreeing that framing it in terms of Night of Long Knives is entirely cool and good. And also, Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yeah, but they didn't have a problem with it at all, and definitely supported his other statements. Who is "they"? Once again, feel free to name names.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:35
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Kilroy posted:I think the person who posted the Kristallnacht thing changed it and said he meant to refer to the Rohm Putsch / Night of the Long Knives, but hosed it up. Pretty egregious mistake to make of course. Not to mention, even saying we need to Rohm-Putsch the DNC is in really poor taste as well. this why it's important to recognize your audience scouring of the shire would've been the optimal analogy
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Oct 17, 2017 21:39
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Falstaff posted:Agreeing with someone on something doesn't mean you agree with them on everything. If I'm a vegetarian, that doesn't mean that I agree with Adolf Hitler's other policies. It sure would be awesome if you applied the same logic here to centrists and other democrats instead of calling us evil repeatedly. Please don't pretend this hasn't happened or hasn't gone unchallenged by others in this very thread, the many bad dems thread, the hillar v bernie thread, and the uspol threads. Falstaff posted:Who is "they"? Once again, feel free to name names. the litany of posters that responded to the original poster and then his clarification that it was Rohm-Putsch not kristallnacht that we should be inflicting on the DNC without blinking an eye.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:40
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Name these freaks so that I may hound them endlessly
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Oct 17, 2017 21:42
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Calibanibal posted:Name these freaks so that I may hound them endlessly Rumplestiltskin.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:46
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:It sure would be awesome if you applied the same logic here to centrists and other democrats instead of calling us evil repeatedly. Please don't pretend this hasn't happened or hasn't gone unchallenged by others in this very thread, the many bad dems thread, the hillar v bernie thread, and the uspol threads. It does happen, but considerably less often than you're portraying, usually by a couple outliers/gimmicks, and we get cast just as maliciously by the Hillary crowd. This notion that we treat you unfairly when you yourself compared the entire left to Nazis, is pretty rich.
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Oct 17, 2017 21:55
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