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yronic heroism posted:I forgot how terrible D&D is at detecting sarcasm. Given that you habitually post only the dumbest of takes on pretty much every topic under the sun, it's difficult to tell.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:08
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The Kingfish posted:The poster quickly removed the reference and has been denounced by many posters and should receive a probe if he didn't already get one and wasn't even close speaking positively about actual Nazi ideology. loving this. I disavow, okay? I disavow.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:09
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I will not disavow, only because I never avowed in the first place
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Oct 18, 2017 03:11
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Hell I didn't even vow
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Oct 18, 2017 03:11
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Condiv posted:must every single poster echo the sentiment for you to be happy? yeah, it was hosed up for him to say, and I dunno why someone who isn't a nazi or a sympathizer would say stuff like that. you realize that when i called out cta, i didn't expect literally the entire forum to chant "shame on you" to him or assume they were all nazi sympathizers right? Well not posting stuff like this would be a big start: Kilroy posted:People advocating for a literal Kristallnacht are literal Nazis. People using Kristallnacht as a clumsy metaphor for political revolution (and even if they actually meant to use another analogy which is only slighter "better") are just assholes.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:36
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Crosspostin': FBI uncovered Russian bribery plot before Obama administration approved controversial nuclear deal with Moscow quote:They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:44
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Kokoro Wish posted:Crosspostin': Maybe a more useful source? The Hill is pretty much trash.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:48
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Yeah, I haven't looked too closely, but at first glance it looks like a pretty firmly debunked conspiracy theory.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:51
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yronic heroism posted:Well not posting stuff like this would be a big start: Well, I mean, he's right; what the guy said was really stupid/offensive but doesn't really imply he's a literal Nazi.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:05
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Ytlaya posted:Well, I mean, he's right; what the guy said was really stupid/offensive but doesn't really imply he's a literal Nazi. Can someone link to the maybe-nazi post? I mean my first instinct, especially in this climate, is to be suspicious. Some people know that being a white supremacist is frowned upon but eventually their real views leak out. I hate to break yall's hearts but there are literal white supremacists on this site that skate under the radar. And to add: the people climbing out the woodwork to defend the guy are part of the problem. Some jump to defend people who are likely to white supremacists (because either they ignore or don't see the signs) when they should be listening to poc, women, lgbt folks etc about this poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:18
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Ytlaya posted:Well, I mean, he's right; what the guy said was really stupid/offensive but doesn't really imply he's a literal Nazi. I'm not one to speculate as to motives, though I chalk this one up to defensiveness rather than malice on your part. Still it's weird he/you would feel the need to "well actually" on this. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 04:19
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Koalas March posted:Can someone link to the maybe-nazi post? No one is crawling out of the woodwork to defend him. People are saying that this dude is a shtiposter who said something distasteful, and yronic is trying to use his bad post as a cudgel against everyone to the left of him. e: Here's the post in question: FizFashizzle posted:Hillary could literally never make another public appearance or say anything in her life and Fox news would still be trying to hang her. She's an industry at this point. Apparently he originally wrote something along the lines of "Kristallnacht her people" instead of "getting her people out," having mixed up Kristallnacht with the Night of the Long Knives. It was a lovely, stupid thing to say, and leftists and centrists alike have acknowledged this. But Loam used this to imply that leftists are Nazis (although I think he's backed off on that position), and now yronic is having a poo poo fit because we think calling Fiz an idiot and moving on is the appropriate thing to do. Majorian fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 04:25
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Maybe a more useful source? The Hill is pretty much trash. The article's written by a former Moonie Times editor.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:26
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Ah yeah, it just sounds like a dumb poo poo post to me. That said, I don't fault anyone for being overly concerned right now. Some white supremacists are getting bold as gently caress.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:36
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Koalas March posted:Ah yeah, it just sounds like a dumb poo poo post to me. If it were anyone else besides yronic (or Jeff Clay), I'd agree without hesitation. But yronic's not concerned with anything but lashing out at the left.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:44
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Majorian posted:
You are glossing over the fact we are dealing with someone knowing enough Nazi terminology to spout it casually and deciding that alluding to Nazi tactics to dealing with a perceived opponent is valuable, so apparently they think there's something about Nazis we should emulate. That's why the "well actually" is weak sauce.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:50
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yronic heroism posted:You are glossing over the fact we are dealing with someone knowing enough Nazi terminology to spout it casually and deciding that alluding to Nazi tactics to dealing with a perceived opponent is valuable, so apparently they think there's something about Nazis we should emulate. That's why the "well actually" is weak sauce. Holy poo poo dude, stop.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:59
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Oxxidation posted:The article's written by a former Moonie Times editor. What if I told you I didn't know what the Moonie Times was? Google seems to indicate it is the Washington Times, which if I remember my rules of locations and newspaper names, is not a good source of journalism. I think it goes something like new york times - good, new york post - bad. Washington Post - good, Washington Times - bad.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:00
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:What if I told you I didn't know what the Moonie Times was? The Washington Times is run by the Moonies, a cult whose official name is the Unification Church. They were basically Breitbart before Breitbart.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:03
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Koalas March posted:Ah yeah, it just sounds like a dumb poo poo post to me. I'm the overconcerned centrist who worries nazis post online alongside leftists and centrists alike to stoke the differences among them. Also, that pointing these people out is important in order to have a meaningful dialogue  For my concern I have been told that I am, indeed, awful.  I also managed to be a prick while doing it, so I guess I still need to work on that part. 
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Oct 18, 2017 05:07
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I'm the centrist who thinks mistaking the Night of Long Knives for Kristallnacht is evidence somebody knows a little too much about Hitler's Germany.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:15
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Crystal Night sounds like a level from Sonic and Knuckles
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Oct 18, 2017 05:19
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Majorian posted:Yeah, I haven't looked too closely, but at first glance it looks like a pretty firmly debunked conspiracy theory. I actually also dismissed the story ages ago for the same reasons. It came up during the elections even and certain people, like H A Goodman reported on it continuously and that man is a loving hack. On the other hand I'm starting to see this story now popping up in a few places with courtroom affidavits appended. That Hill article has affidavits appended too. TYT Politics, the TYT investigative arm, also just covered it too, and they usually check their poo poo in regards to this stuff. So I'm just watching for further developments.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:33
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Heaps of Sheeps posted:When talking about purging the party of bads, woudn't Night of the Long Knives be a better analogy anyways? A better one would be struggle sessions.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:46
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Can we argue about cumtown? That would be interesting to me.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:55
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Frankly I believe the dumb shitposter was trying to invoke fishhook theory. He was soooo close to achieving centrism.
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Oct 18, 2017 11:45
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Mr Hootington posted:Frankly I believe the dumb shitposter was trying to invoke fishhook theory. He was soooo close to achieving centrism. What is fishhook theory? Is that like horseshoe theory or whatever?
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Oct 18, 2017 15:30
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yronic heroism posted:we are dealing with someone knowing enough Nazi terminology This has to be trolling, it's just too embarassing to be real.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:39
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Barbe Rouge posted:This has to be trolling, it's just too embarassing to be real. Yeah seriously. I'm constantly called out for "assuming everyone is racist" and poo poo and even I'm saying it's probably just a dumb bad post. Which makes it perfect for this thread! 
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Oct 18, 2017 15:41
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Barbe Rouge posted:This has to be trolling, it's just too embarassing to be real. that's his gimmick empower the left via making absurd centrists claims see also: jeffersonclay, who even the centrists try to avoid personifying
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Oct 18, 2017 16:15
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Grapplejack posted:What is fishhook theory? Is that like horseshoe theory or whatever? Basically that people committed to centrism for its own sake end up empowering fascists.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:32
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Koalas March posted:Yeah seriously. I'm constantly called out for "assuming everyone is racist" and poo poo and even I'm saying it's probably just a dumb bad post. I disagree in this case. If it walks like a duck.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:34
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Barbe Rouge posted:This has to be trolling, it's just too embarassing to be real. Don't sign your posts.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:36
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yronic heroism posted:I disagree in this case. If it walks like a duck. Your role in this exchange is making me vicariously embarassed.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:47
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I'm already committed to the idea that FishFrazzle is a leftist nazi So you have my axe, yronic
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Oct 18, 2017 18:04
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JeffersonClay posted:Both these statements are objectively wrong. Your data doesn't show a doubling in extreme poverty when we take into account SNAP and other benefits.  quote:Food insecurity has returned to the levels we saw before 2007 before the great recession. As I've repeatedly stated, you dullard, extreme poverty and food insecurity are not things we should ignore. But we also shouldn't ignore the tens of millions of people that have been lifted out of poverty by the safety net. 200,000 people really is a small population when compared to 20,000,000. National Geographic posted:By whatever name, the number of people going hungry has grown dramatically in the U.S., increasing to 48 million by 2012—a fivefold jump since the late 1960s, including an increase of 57 percent since the late 1990s. quote:That's literally what welfare reform did in the 90's. It took away direct assistance to the poor and redirected it towards wage supplements for the working poor like the EITC. I'm sorry the depth of your ignorance on this subject is impeding our discussion. We've already been through this: Helsing posted:
quote:I'm not making an argument about employment wrt the minimum wage. I'm making an argument about prices. People out of the labor force, by definition, do not benefit from increased wages. Minimum wage increases are, at least in part, paid for with price increases. So poor people out of the labor force are unambiguously harmed by minimum wage increases. If you only focus on the bottom 1%, minimum wage hikes look like bad policy. That's why we should consider the impacts of policy on both the working poor and the nonworking poor, which you refuse to do. Since you already agreed that there is no necessary trade off involved in providing welfare support to both the working poor and the extremely poor there is no reason to accept your welfare analogy, which once again posits an inherent trade off between raising the price of labour and taking care of the most vulnerable. This is still an apples vs. oranges comparison. I'll note again that you're using a very reductive and conservative model to evaluate minimum wage - one which assumes that labour markets are efficient, whereas there's a good case to be made that minimum wage businesses act as a sort of collective cartel, using their collective market power to artificially depress wages, meaning you'd likely have some room to increase wages for workers at the bottom before you'd necessarily see any substantive price increases. But that's a completely irrelevant diversion to our actual discussion. quote:Do you understand what a comparison is? I'm comparing the welfare state as it existed at the end of the Obama administration with the welfare state 20, 40, or 60 years ago. It's not enough to say "people are going to bed hungry", because that was happening 20, 40, and 60 years ago, too. The welfare state has never been sufficient. Let's recap: -Since 1996 the number of households experiencing extreme poverty has increased by 49.9% (this is if we factor in SNAP benefits and other subsidies, otherwise the increase is much worse) -The number of households experiencing food insecurity has increased by 57% since the late 1990s (and has increased fivefold since the 1960s) -Before 1996 there was a guaranteed cash welfare system that was protected by the federal government -Since 1996 there is effectively no federal cash welfare system, a five year cap on benefits, and the money has been turned into a block grant -What was once a consistent federally administrated system with no lifetime cap on benefits is now a geographic lottery, leaving folks at the mercy of their state government, with a five year lifetime cap on benefits These are examples of worsening conditions. There's been some improvement on other fronts but it hasn't been sufficient to shield literally millions of people from a substantial increase in suffering. Yeah, there are winners and losers over the last couple decades, but this idea that we should be celebrating how the welfare state is better than ever when significant populations of people are worse off than ever, and when the protections offered by the federal state are patchier and more geographically inconsistent than ever, is a cruel joke.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:06
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yronic heroism posted:I disagree in this case. If it walks like a duck. I am starting to wonder if you're one of those alt right guys who thinks stirring up poo poo and making false claims about white supremacists will make other claims less credible. 
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Oct 18, 2017 18:11
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Didn't know this thread existed, is this where I tell lefties who attack the Obamas with fringe theories that they are neither original nor clever?
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Oct 18, 2017 18:40
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Baiku posted:He's getting 8 years.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:41
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Potato Salad posted:Didn't know this thread existed, is this where I tell lefties who attack the Obamas with fringe theories that they are neither original nor clever? Feel free, go nuts! I think you'll find that most leftists here don't have much patience with insane fringe theories about Obama either.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:48
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