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Effortpost incoming The Liberty has proven to be a complete lemon - I've had all sort of issues as well as the big ones I've psoted about and while I was on holiday it proved itself yet again fundamentally unreliable in that it YET AGAIN is threatening to blow a headgasket. I'm compeltely over my main road car being an piece of poo poo - I can accept the multitude of shitbox Subarus being problematic bu nott the car I specifically got to be the car I can rely on and do long distance... and changing a headgasket on a Liberty is not just a prick but expensive as the heads usually also warp and need to be at least tested for beign flat. Yeah, no. gently caress that. It's gone. So anyway with some sort of finance approved I'm off car shopping. I really didnt know exactly what I wanted apart from some vague ideas that a manual diesel Outback might be okay and indeed I had a test drive booked with Subaru at a dealership that the 06 WRX came from in fact. Park Run, shower then car hunting sounded like a good morning..... First car - Colorado 2.8TDI twin cab. Very basic, very plastic, not particularly well screwed together but yeah not bad to drive for a ute. The problem was that I know it'll drive me nuts if I had it for any length of time as... well.... it's not really a plesant thing overall. Numb steering and ugh brakes. Pass. VFII V8? GORGEOUS. Like this is genuinely one of the great cars and goes like stink. And in a wagon too. Bit pricey and not AWD but I can overlook that. Off to another dealer and try out a Mitsubitshi Triton turbodiesel..... hmmm. Ummmm..... instant dislike. Pass Outlander - the Mitsubitshi version of an Outback. Surprised the hell out of me as it was a solid 7/10 crossover. Well appointed, went well, steered and braked well too. Also comes in a manual turbodiesel. On the shortlist. Subaru dealer - while the Liberty was being assessed (yeah, headgasket so resale is destroyed :/ ) I'm testing random cars. Impreza - CVT only. Ugh. Christ no. No No NO. look it's absic car but the CVT is unplesant and makes it buzzy. I will give Subaru one thing that the CVT has been greatly improved since the last Impreza CVT I tried but it's still poo poo Forester - Good abeit soft with a worse CVT. gently caress off. XT was ruled out just on the strength of how crap the base was. Outback - Diesel CVT, in lieu of a manual which is what I would have wanted. I will say that in diesel from the CVT is better matched as of course a big fat torque curve and limited revs matches a CVT to some degree. Kinda interesting that there was also always fake gearshifts even in full auto mode so not entirely horrible to punt. Manual mode was.... *shrug*, it's clear the car has never really been optimised to use it. Steered and braked like a big Liberty, ran out of acceleration at 130kph but eh, it's a diesel. Low down torque was loving fun as hell tho. Really good car otherwise and I'm pretty much ready to sign getting back for a manual version. But anyway I'm like well I've tried a few other cars and I've got my finance ready etc why not go for a Levorg drive.Utterly NO intention to buy one cause CVT (Subaru salemen admit if ythey had a manual they know very well they would sell em to every enthusist who walks through the door). So I have the keys for the blueish one that I showed next to the Liberty annnnnnd..... 500 meters and I goddamn SOLD. Steering is light but precise, it handles really well and it is a 4th Gen Liberty reborn but made new. Even the switches are 4th Gen, the steating position and the brakes..... This is the perfect wagon and it also goes like stink - I also love the looks. The interior on the blue Levorg was this amazing light cream that was just soooooo good to be in. The FA20DIT really is a responsive bit of kit in SI mode - but in normal mode the CVT and the engine is slurry and takes too long to wind up. SI gives you some sharpening (and a pretty graph that shows what SI changes are making to trottle response and torque curve) and the CVT is a loving pox of course. HOWEVER...... We have a party trick and thats called SI Supersport. The throttle is at its sharpest, the engine torque curve changes as well to become a compelte riot to drive, the CVT changes to become a 8 speed auto that is also likewise somewhat better - pretty much in line with a certain 5 speed auto in a certain 4th Gen Liberty. Well poo poo, we have a CVT that can be as good as a 11 year old automatic, I call that a lot of progress. Paddle shift down three gears annnnd.... poo poo I'm only in fifth. Next corner I tap down five times and oh yeah there we are. This thing turns corners drat well, better than the Liberty. The dooddads this thing has will take me a month to work out and the steering wheel is festooned with controls for.... ummm... I have no idea half of them. Centre console has a 9 page display for things like fuel economy, ICE overview, booost guage, torque vectoring and poo poo there's so much to look though I have no idea. It's got eye sight and adaptive cruise something lane departure (which really surprised me on a unmarked road as it could work out where you are without line markings and warn that I was wandering to the middle of the road), blindspot something or rather with ICE that I dont understand that talks to my Android phone and keyless start (WTF) and who the gently caress cares because I've just ripped another corner apart OMG this car is a complete and utter riot to punt and drives like somethign a godawful load more expensive and I forgot what I was about to sign up for and.... I'll have the one in black with a tobar thank you very much. It was a very hard call between that and the blue one I test drove because the blue car's interior was gorgeous. My opinion on CVT's hasnt changed and the Levorg would be a mindblower with a manual. Just more the case someone has found a way to make one work like an acceptible 8 speed and it gets mated to a car with an otherwise amazing fun mode that gives you a real WRX style boot in the back. Also I know the FA is a limited motor with it's plastic rods but drat if it aint a great thing with SI Supersport kicked in. Smooth and very responsive - kinda sounds a bit like rear end but eh. TL:DR - CVT sucks, Levorg is otherwise holy poo poo good and just LOOK AT IT
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Oct 15, 2017 00:31
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My God I couldnt make this up. The STRUT snapped on the Liberty
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Oct 15, 2017 01:55
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:My God I couldnt make this up. The STRUT snapped on the Liberty From the sublime to the ridiculous... Levorg sounds great, I did wonder why I've been seeing more than a few driving around. I always pegged it as an enthusiast car with a massive fatal flaw but sounds like they found a way around that.
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Oct 15, 2017 02:02
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I drove the wrx and the levorg back to back and the levorg was fun, but not as fun as the wrx until you put it in sport# to make it hold gears and build boost quicker. The rear suspension though is hosed. I went over a few speed bumps and it just wallows around. That was one with the blistein suspension package too. Glad you like em, I would too if it had stick shift.
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Oct 15, 2017 04:26
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Turns out the top of the Bilstein insert has snapped just below the bolt. What. The. Hell. Well all I need to do is get it to the dealership and I think I have a couple of poo poo inserts from a WRX that will work. Any questions why Im trading that POS in? Still coming to terms with buying anything with a CVT.
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Oct 15, 2017 05:31
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KNOCK KNOCK WHO'S THERE? STRUT STRUT WHO STRUT gently caress YOU   I resisting the temptation on viking funeral for this loving car.
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Oct 15, 2017 10:59
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Bad time to mention my mates looking to sell his 6 speed 06 liberty sedan spec b? Mum n dad are currently tossing up between a EJ25 powered forester and the turbo diesel one. Both manuals.
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Oct 15, 2017 11:00
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Ferremit posted:Bad time to mention my mates looking to sell his 6 speed 06 liberty sedan spec b? Lets jut say I dont want to see another Spec B for a very long time. I'd reckon diesel. The EJ25 NA isnt particularly more powerful and a LOT less torque (126Kw for the NA 2.5, 226NM while the diesel has 110Kw but 350NM). The diesel does also return really good economy. It's never going to be a firebreather but there is a big wallop of torque off the line. The EJ25 version the parental unit has is okay but in the end I'd say turbo diesel would be best esp with any towing.
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Oct 15, 2017 11:17
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Diesels got about 16k km more and is a 2010 vs the 2009 EJ and $300 cheaper- both are XS premiums too. Ironically my mate is selling his cos he bought a turbo diesel prado
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Oct 15, 2017 11:27
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:
 Winning. Best car-related money one can spend, IMHO. 
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Oct 15, 2017 18:57
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Ferremit posted:Diesels got about 16k km more and is a 2010 vs the 2009 EJ and $300 cheaper- both are XS premiums too. Foresters are usually good for a huge amount of kms so 16k more isnt going to me be a deal breaker. HandlingByJebus posted:
We've been looking for one for a long time, a mate has this one that isnt being used. Plus the whole we need a workshop is coming to a head finally, we cant keep building cars in the garage and driveway - we're out of room. Especially when I need to move four cars to get to the one spot I have that doesn't have a car that's immobile.
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Oct 15, 2017 23:39
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slothrop posted:From the sublime to the ridiculous... Strut update - fuuuuuuuuck HOW did a Bilstein break? Looks like a clean break at the top nut too - I have never seen that outside of a rally car. Now if I can get the insert out, I have a replacement and I can get rid of this POS on Thursday. Levorg - the thing I see about reviews is that it seems a lot of people have wildy varying dislikes - Laserface says rear suspension, another review says front, another says it all works but they hate the interior, another person says the interior is great but the exterior sucks (They are worng on that one, it looks poo poo hot), everyone thinks the CVT sucks unless you are in SI# mode,for some the steering is dull and lifeless, others it's sharp with loads of feedback, some cant work out why it exists, others call it the WRX wagon everyone needs to have.... None of that is wrong per say, I just find it interesting there's no real general consensus with reviewers outside of one specific area and it's overall good. My guess is it would be universally slobbered on with a manual. Annnnyway...... pickup Thursday. With a few extras being installed.
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Oct 17, 2017 07:50
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lets see... huge gently caress off roo bar, always on LED light bar, never used thule roof pod aaaannnd maybe some sick tintz
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Oct 17, 2017 08:22
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slothrop posted:lets see... .... How did you guess????  I have never seen that outside of rallying. A Bilstein failing like that is bizarre and a pretty decent gently caress you form the Liberty. I *HATE* that car so much right now Grafing in a 06 WRX insert as I only need it to go 22 kms on Thursday. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 10:28
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Cat can you tell me if I should bother grabbing a set of Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs off an evo X MR to upgrade my GSR? They're $150.
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Oct 17, 2017 10:38
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Strut update - fuuuuuuuuck HOW did a Bilstein break? Looks like a clean break at the top nut too - I have never seen that outside of a rally car. Now if I can get the insert out, I have a replacement and I can get rid of this POS on Thursday. Bilstiens adapter system is garbage... These are off my 100 series rears      Bushing failed to keep the shock centered in the mounting hole and then it rubbed against the side of the chassis until it wore through. And wore the chassis hole out of round..
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Oct 17, 2017 10:45
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Laserface posted:Cat can you tell me if I should bother grabbing a set of Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs off an evo X MR to upgrade my GSR? 150???? Whats wrong with them? If the answer is nothing then buy. Now. Bilsteins are rebuildable too.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:25
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:150???? Whats wrong with them? 45,000kms old, no problems. From what I am reading they are more compliant than the KYBs in the GSR so yeah OK.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:41
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On a scale from 1 to impossible, how hard would it be to swap a 6 speed long raito sti box into a levorg?
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Oct 18, 2017 06:43
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Should go right in, you'll need the sti clutch, slave cyl, shifter parts, and a prop shaft the right length. Oh and a mt trans x-member and 6-spd mount. And getting neutral position and reverse switch to work might take some wiring splices, and maybe the ecu won't like it.
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Oct 18, 2017 07:08
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Chiwie posted:On a scale from 1 to impossible, how hard would it be to swap a 6 speed long raito sti box into a levorg? Hardware wise straightforward as long as the wheelbase is the same and gearbox mounts are same. I suspect the electronics side of it would be the big problem. Ive heard someone offers a mnaual conversion so its possible.. The electronics problem goes a looooong way beyond neutral switches etc in this case. From what Ive seen there is a lot of intergration to things like VDC and Eyesight to think about. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 07:12
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Just to clarify I'm not being contra to be a dick, this is actually an interesting topic which I dont think is entirely simple on the electronics side, esp as there are a lot of systems that tie back to the CVT's modes of operation and also the autonomous control that Eyesight has. You would need to either make the decision to remove them or make them work... which I'm not sure you can, given most of the advanced features arent availible on any manual car. The dash also isnt straightforward, nor is the steering wheel controls even to work with just a manual. Sooo.... there would be more wiring changes I think as well as def ECU swaps, reprogramming of CANBUS and maybe body control ECUs also needing to be redone. I suspect it would be possible Subaru have not left the crossmember mounts in the same place between manual and auto. On the Gen 4 Liberty's here they arent - which is what Mech Stig and MCM ran into and why they used a custom crossmember. Also turns out the wiring was quite a deal different between auto and manual cars.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:15
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Just to clarify I'm not being contra to be a dick, this is actually an interesting topic which I dont think is entirely simple on the electronics side, esp as there are a lot of systems that tie back to the CVT's modes of operation and also the autonomous control that Eyesight has. You would need to either make the decision to remove them or make them work... which I'm not sure you can, given most of the advanced features arent availible on any manual car. The dash also isnt straightforward, nor is the steering wheel controls even to work with just a manual. Sooo.... there would be more wiring changes I think as well as def ECU swaps, reprogramming of CANBUS and maybe body control ECUs also needing to be redone. Ah drat. I figured that computer trickery would make it next to impossible compared to older gens.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:32
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The Liberty's torque converter failed.....!
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Oct 18, 2017 09:43
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How does a man who buys so many subarus manage to buy a lemon when he drops a decent chunk of change on his DD?
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Oct 18, 2017 10:06
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Cop Porn Popper posted:How does a man who buys so many subarus manage to buy a lemon when he drops a decent chunk of change on his DD? I've asked myself that a fair bit in the last few weeks annnnd I'm coming up blank, I would expect this from the garbage WRX's not a car with a reputation for reliability.... and that Forester I rebuilt is still going strong with it's new owner and he loves it to bits. What I dont believe is the sheer gently caress you this car is giving me right at the end - It's utterly detirmined to get one last loving kick in. I parked it at the nearest train station to the dealership for the night, it has 3km to go and I'll drag it if I have to. I now completely believe cars can be cursed because that's the only explaination for the sudden rapid unintentional disassembly.
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Oct 18, 2017 10:51
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was the PO named Jeb? 
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Oct 18, 2017 10:54
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Cop Porn Popper posted:How does a man who buys so many subarus manage to buy a lemon when he drops a decent chunk of change on his DD? Subarus can sense an owner who has money, and they respond appropriately to this weakness.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:13
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Subarus can sense an owner who has money, and they respond appropriately to this weakness. ....I have money¿
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Oct 18, 2017 19:17
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Chiwie posted:Ah drat. I figured that computer trickery would make it next to impossible compared to older gens. .... And I am presently staring at the build thread on a Facebook group of someone doing this exact thing. Oh woooooow. Complete harness change to begin with. Actually looks more doable than I thought.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:32
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...and as I literally reversed into parking at the dealer one of the front cv's exploded. Finished parking turned it off... sat there and deep breathed for 5 minutes, looked around to see if anyone could see me then I pissed on it. gently caress. That. CAR
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Oct 19, 2017 05:35
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Oh god no. No where even CLOSE. Effortpost on CVTs: The ability to keep the engine in at the top of the powerband and always have the perfect gear ratio is why F1 banned them the moment that Williams tested one. If F1 were allowed to use them we might be seeing a different tune by most people here. Maybe not. Anyway. I think CVTs get a bad rap for few reasons: 1. The most "automatic of automatics". Ok, sure, that's fine if you're "manual or bust!". I won't dispute that. 2. Some people complain that it makes the engine drone because it'll lock the engine at the top of the power band and adjust the gear ratio as the speed changes, and ok, that's also fair. The big problem though... 3. Makers completely ignore what makes it good because people will complain if you don't have shift points that their car doesn't feel right. They're designed to have the best gear ratio for the job at any given moment, which is why they're the best, but having set "shift points" completely defeats the purpose of them. The other thing is I believe makers aren't as aggressive with the ratio changes in true CVT mode, but don't hold me to that. So CVTs from a performance standpoint suck because people want "shift points", not a "gearbox" that saves them money by always having the best gear ratio for the job.
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Oct 19, 2017 05:52
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Im still in shock at how that loving Liberty fell apart in the last three days.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:06
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Was the broken cv the same corner as the broken strut?
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Oct 19, 2017 06:11
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jamal posted:Was the broken cv the same corner as the broken strut? Yes. And yeah both failures will be related I bet. Stuffed if I know how it happened as I have never hit anything Dunno WTF with the gearbox tho. Whatever its not my car now.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:15
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Chiwie posted:Ah drat. I figured that computer trickery would make it next to impossible compared to older gens. Apparently it's a full loom swap and a dash graft in.. That's if you don't have the drive assist stuff...
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Oct 19, 2017 07:46
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iospace posted:Effortpost on CVTs: I will reply.... Prodrive went BACK to a Manual gearbox in the 97 ish WRC car. Complexity in Motorsport is never a good thing. Then there is modulating weight transfer with the clutch, drive control mid corner... All the boring stuff that makes a car a racecar. Kaptainballistik fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 07:48
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^^^ Yeah exactly and even on normal driving how a CVT default to is not desireable at all. The fallacy is holding the engine at a target rpm is best when actually its much more desireable to not do that except on a freeway cruising. A CVT runs contrary to what actually works best going fast and just tooling about. Enough of that, the Liberty is loving GONE and look at this beautiful black evil thing     MY17 Levorg GT-S with a few STI bits thrown on for looks.... and in the flesh it is just straight out one evil looking wagon. I *LOVE* how it looks and how it generally drives. A lot more on it tomorrow esp while I digest the mindfuck technology this thing comes with that in the main I have never even thought about in a car before. And yeah it loving goes as well as the looks hint. 11 years apart   Tell ya what, if the Levorg ends up being half the car the WRX has been, it's worth every drat cent. Fairly amusing tho the WRX is a fully stripped out go fast mchine with zero options while the Levorg has every drat option. Edit : The Enkei STI wheels and skirts / lip spoiler really did change the look of the car quite a lot for the better. It *really* looks menacing now and right now at night it's drat near impossible to see CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 11:04
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After having to part out my legacy wagon sloot this winter, I would buy a loving levorg tomorrow but nooooo we don't get them.
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Oct 19, 2017 22:53
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300 km road trip to Mechanical Stig's place just because. Mod Max is fun Levorg's cruise control is amazing - all that distance and never touched the brake. Only tapped the throttle when stopped to get it going again. Also is a brilliant cruiser with fairly good fuel economy (7.6l/100km ave and 6.5l/100km best) that is a bit better than the Liberty..... so I'm not convinced CVT's are THAT much better than a dogshit old 5EAT even (Liberty has been 7.8l/100kms for that trip... difference being the Levorg didnt try to overheat and die and the Liberty did have a noted engine that wasnt the best for economy too.....). I'll give it the CVT does work with Eyesight well.... my guess here is that the economy gains are more to do with DI than gearbox, given that in full CVT mode it's not turning much more revs than the Liberty at 110 kph. Boht cars are close in weight and size too. The Levorg has a longer range but also has a bigger fuel tank (60 vs 55) so it has a 800 km cruise range vs 730 km proven cruise range.... yeah I'm not buying CVT's are a better gearbox for economy. Enough of that, time to get to work
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Oct 21, 2017 06:25
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