|
Kaal posted:third party greens/leftists/progressives/anarchists/communists/socialists/liberals: no trust us it'll work this time liberals: i'm with her *gets dunked on by an orange reality tv star*
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:36 |
|
|
Oddly enough it's the socialists in this thread (and in general) who are more results-oriented than the loving liberals who would rather whine about whether Wikileaks was the right choice in publishing documents that absolutely needed to be published. Like you're fine with the extra death and destruction that keeping those secrets entails, provided the WaPo gets to act as the gatekeeper for what the public has a right to know (and, naturally, makes sure they do not know anything that might pose a threat to capital). You're an enemy of the people, Kaal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
It's just always the same old story. Some people work for actual positive change, and others just go after easier targets like their own nominal allies and call it "helping". It used to be that these folks would harp about the counter-revolutionaries, and then the Blue Dogs, and then the neoliberals, and now the centrists. But it's always the same bullshit complaint: I want political power but I'm not willing to work for it, make any compromises, or hold to any general principles.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:21
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:A Few Good Men is also the only thing he's been involved in that's still actually pretty good as a work of art, sorry bro but West Wing is garbage. This but a few good men is also bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
Kaal posted:It's just always the same old story. Some people work for actual positive change, and others just go after easier targets like their own nominal allies and call it "helping". 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:28
|
|
|
Kaal posted:It's just always the same old story. Some people work for actual positive change, and others just go after easier targets like their own nominal allies and call it "helping". It used to be that these folks would harp about the counter-revolutionaries, and then the Blue Dogs, and then the neoliberals, and now the centrists. But it's always the same bullshit complaint: I want political power but I'm not willing to work for it, make any compromises, or hold to any general principles. need any wax for that cross?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:30
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:Oddly enough it's the socialists in this thread (and in general) who are more results-oriented than the loving liberals who would rather whine about whether Wikileaks was the right choice in publishing documents that absolutely needed to be published. What deaths did Wikileaks prevent? Also nice unironic Trump quote. Way to disprove horseshoe theory. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:31
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:Liberalism has failed to stop fascism and socialists have a much better track record in that regard, friendo. FDR was a liberal not a leftist sorry to rain on your historical revisionism. Also, Manning did not defeat any Nazis in fact she teamed up with one of their rapist Pepe allies. hth
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:34
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:This but a few good men is also bad. No, A Few Good Men is a great movie that happens to have terrible politics. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:The rape stuff actually happened pretty soon after Manning's leaks. I think it came out near the end of 2010 and Manning's leaks were near the beginning of the same year. The Alt right in 2010 if I can remember was pretty much just half of /pol/ They hadn't even taken over all of /pol/ yet and I don't believe 8chan existed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:41
|
|
|
Actually I looked up the Newsroom and I think Sorkin isn't even a liberal anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:45
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Also nice unironic Trump quote. Way to disprove horseshoe theory.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:53
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:FDR was a liberal not a leftist sorry to rain on your historical revisionism. Also, Manning did not defeat any Nazis in fact she teamed up with one of their rapist Pepe allies. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:54
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:what the gently caress are you going on about now trump invented the phrase "enemy of the people" didn't you know?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:54
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:trump invented the phrase "enemy of the people" didn't you know? Much like Pepe, it now is now part of Trumpism.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:56
|
|
|
just lol that in 2017 d&d is still railing on Obama-era whistleblowers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:57
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:wasn't referring to FDR obv Oh I'm sorry I thought we were talking about political figures who beat Nazis, my mistake.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:57
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Much like Pepe, it now is now part of Trumpism. Presumably "huge", "fake", "winning", "great again", "10 out of 10" and "wrong" are already on that list of phrases so polluted they can't be used yronic heroism posted:Oh I'm sorry I thought we were talking about political figures who beat Nazis, my mistake. lol you might want to crack open the wiki page on ww2 again
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:58
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Oh I'm sorry I thought we were talking about political figures who beat Nazis, my mistake. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
yronic I'm sorry to say this, but: you hosed it up didn't even take 24 hours - you're hopeless
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:00
|
|
|
Kaal posted:It's just always the same old story. Some people work for actual positive change, and others just go after easier targets like their own nominal allies and call it "helping". It used to be that these folks would harp about the counter-revolutionaries, and then the Blue Dogs, and then the neoliberals, and now the centrists. But it's always the same bullshit complaint: I want political power but I'm not willing to work for it, make any compromises, or hold to any general principles. Any leftist/socialist willing to support a viable US politican is perfectly capable of compromise and being critical of those in power is a good thing, even if they have your team label.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:Where do you think most of the fighting took place in WW2? Stalin and Hitler conspired to split Poland and then Hitler attacked to grab Soviet territory for Nazi territorial ambitions. Truly profiles in courage for Stalin. The fact you prefer Stalin the "leftist" to FDR though speaks volumes. No wonder many of the self proclaimed "leftists" itt are so accepting of a fascist like Putin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:
The fact is FDR took proactive steps to place the US in opposition to Nazis while US leftists were preaching peace until the USSR was invaded.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:08
|
|
|
Yronic, you are the dumbest poster in this thread. Have you no shame, sir?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:08
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:The fact is FDR took proactive steps to place the US in opposition to Nazis while US leftists were preaching peace until the USSR was invaded. Kilroy posted:Liberalism has failed to stop fascism and socialists have a much better track record in that regard, friendo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
We didn't enter the war until well after the Soviets were invaded, so sounds like FDR and those dastardly US Leftists agreed on that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
Don't talk to me about fighting Nazis and then stan for Stalin, a bigger appeaser than even Chamberlain.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:17
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Don't talk to me about fighting Nazis and then stan for Stalin, a bigger appeaser than even Chamberlain. lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Don't talk to me about fighting Nazis and then stan for Stalin, a bigger appeaser than even Chamberlain. nice
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Even Chamberlain drew the line at Poland.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
Stalin was a piece of poo poo but I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only socialist in Russia at the time. Just like FDR was better than most of his peers in the US at the time, despite being essentially a liberal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:27
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:I am pretty sure there was one (or a few?) in the US. But I'll take the overseas ones if you got them. I think this is what I was remembering: http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/08/07/541609649/how-to-fix-poverty-why-not-just-give-people-money
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Even Chamberlain drew the line at Poland. But FDR didn't, ergo FDR is the biggest appeaser of all!
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:40
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:But FDR didn't, ergo FDR is the biggest appeaser of all! Congress
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:09
|
|
|
Every leftist Dem trying to primary a centrist incumbent should just run ads showing yronic's posts. We'd sweep Congress in 2018 and have Full Communism by 2020.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Every leftist Dem trying to primary a centrist incumbent should just run ads showing yronic's posts.  since I am endorsing Sanders I guess my opinion would carry some weightThat's quite apart from making fun of the pissy little babies like condiv however
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
Kaal posted:It's just always the same old story. Some people work for actual positive change, and others just go after easier targets like their own nominal allies and call it "helping". It used to be that these folks would harp about the counter-revolutionaries, and then the Blue Dogs, and then the neoliberals, and now the centrists. But it's always the same bullshit complaint: I want political power but I'm not willing to work for it, make any compromises, or hold to any general principles. You can use the exact same argument you're making against literally any political ideology that doesn't already hold power. Also, what you're saying isn't even true. There have been actual changes to mainstream Democratic ideology and rhetoric as a result of the more left-leaning movement represented by Bernie Sanders and his supporters in the 2016 primary. yronic heroism posted:Much like Pepe, it now is now part of Trumpism. What is wrong with you? It's really obvious that you don't even seem to have any real convictions regarding any of the stuff you're saying; you're only saying it because you have some weird ax to grind against leftists and automatically take the contrarian position in any argument they're involved with. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:35
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:
Don't put that part in, though - it's totally incongruous with pretty much every position you've adopted in this thread. quote:That's quite apart from making fun of the pissy little babies like condiv however Oh, that's just sad...after all the rakes you've stepped on, you're going with "I was a puppet master all along"?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:What is wrong with you? It's really obvious that you don't even seem to have any real convictions regarding any of the stuff you're saying; you're only saying it because you have some weird ax to grind against leftists and automatically take the contrarian position in any argument they're involved with. Nah, i actually like most leftists (if your average Bernie voter is a leftist and we are not limiting the term to purity tested weird shitposters) and just think our most vocally obnoxious people who claim that label are worthy of being mocked. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:36 |
|
|
Kaal posted:I mean it's not really shocking that people here are still dragging their heels about this. These threads used to be absolutely filled with folks shilling for Assange because they loved his anti-authority politics. Now that public sentiment on Wikileaks has shifted against him they mostly limit themselves to Manning. But the fundamental facts remain here, that what they did was hugely irresponsible, that Manning and Assange did it for pretty juvenile reasons, and that the ultimate impact is unknowable because of the ongoing war but certainly put a lot of innocent people at risk (people that a lot of Wikileaks supporters ignore and treat as collaborators). And at the end of the day, the ideas that the ends justify the means here, or that the people in these documents deserve collective punishment, or that vigilante populism is preferable to responsible journalism, are absolutely incompatible with principled liberalism. Oh shut up you don't give a poo poo about any of this. Why does the US Government hound and prosecute conscientious whistleblowers like Snowden who did everything you're saying here. Why did the Obama administration retaliate against whistleblowers. Why is there no independent system set up that whistleblowers can go to and be assured of protections from retaliation and an independent investigation into these issues? That would drive the risk of leakers inadvertently or irresponsibly releasing unrelated information to zero. If you actually cared about this issue beyond a convenient deflection of the discussion away from US crimes then you'd be excoriating the government for not giving people like Manning a way to expose criminal behavior, not giving cover to murder and torture and abuse of the classification system by desperately shifting to how much you don't like the way Manning revealed the crimes to make it about her rather than the actual grave institutional problems in our government.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 03:45
|
|
