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Randaconda posted:Plato made a lot of poo poo up. I wouldn’t be surprised. It was a neat detail though. Blue Star posted:From what I know, Atlantis isnt something that anyone really believed in. Even at the time, it was just an allegory that Plato came up with and everyone knew it. I think he was using it as a device to contrast with his idea of a perfect Athens. Like, Atlantis was super advanced and powerful but they werent virtuous like the Athenians were, and the Athenians end up defeating them because the gods are on their side, so Atlantis sinks beneath the waves. All of the thinkers and philosophers knew that Atlantis was just something Plato came up with, all through the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages. Im not sure when that changed but I think in the 19th century, when archeology was starting to become a thing, less knowledgeable folks started to make poo poo up about how Atlantis was totally real and Atlanteans founded the Mayans, the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, etc. and they had psychic spiritual powers. But that all came from "modern" people, not ancient times. This makes sense as well. All the Edgar Cayce Atlantis stuff was 
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Oct 20, 2017 15:49
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Posting from Virginia Beach, VA, home of the Edgar Cayce foundation I've been to their HQ, they've got some cool facilities and a great library of weird occult/metaphysical poo poo but they're fuckin obsessed with colonics
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Oct 20, 2017 17:08
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Senor Dog posted:Atlantis was in what is now called Bolivia. nah Uppsala, sweden
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Oct 21, 2017 13:24
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poverty goat posted:Posting from Virginia Beach, VA, home of the Edgar Cayce foundation Is it still weird Christian psychic stuff? I haven't heard much about that crowd in some time. I think they're all dead. Back on topic: I kind of have to wonder how much of Luwian civilization is still buried in Anatolia. Would the current Turkish government even allow outside archaeologists to visit?
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Oct 23, 2017 05:47
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I still find it ironic that the only hard* evidence of a large bronze age battle is way the heck north of civilization, of which no account of history can make any sense of. Or, why are dudes from the Iberian peninsula brutally fighting other dudes in northern Germany. A place cold as gently caress with no writing or anything of value to anyone at the time. By *hard I mean actual clumps of bodies of fallen soldiers with hacked up bones and lodged arrowheads. Also healed bones from previous battle wounds and fancy warrior swag for the time. wide stance fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 18:07
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wide stance posted:I still find it ironic that the only hard* evidence of a large bronze age battle is way the heck north of civilization, of which no account of history can make any sense of. chew on this: we've had organized societies a lot longer than we have had metal weapons. there is 6,000 years of what we would consider proper "history" with kings and cities and all that before the bronze age. the Neolithic, now thats a mysterious age. none of that poo poo was written down of course, because writing wasn't invented yet!
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Oct 23, 2017 18:30
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did they release the translation of the words in the op I want to know what this supposedly says
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Oct 23, 2017 19:37
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wide stance posted:I still find it ironic that the only hard* evidence of a large bronze age battle is way the heck north of civilization, of which no account of history can make any sense of. The dates apparently don't match but here's what I want to believe happened: it's around the time of the bronze age collapse and the ruling elites all over Europe, whose power base derives from trade with the Mediterranean, are suddenly not having any traders show up and so a big expedition is sent out to figure out what the gently caress is going on. The site of the battle is as far as they came.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:56
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Grevling posted:The dates apparently don't match but here's what I want to believe happened: it's around the time of the bronze age collapse and the ruling elites all over Europe, whose power base derives from trade with the Mediterranean, are suddenly not having any traders show up and so a big expedition is sent out to figure out what the gently caress is going on. The site of the battle is as far as they came. walking from spain to turkey is a bit of a challenge. they maybe should have taken a boat
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Oct 23, 2017 20:09
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Maybe they didn't have ocean going boats. Or maybe they were just tourists interested in the German countryside. I now think it's that.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:22
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that was conan times, right? they were probably on a quest for some kind of magical circlet, or in a battle with the thralls of an evil wizard
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Oct 23, 2017 20:24
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:that was conan times, right? Conan was set in the the chaotic dark ages after Bronze Age civilization collapse and before the Iron Age reorganized people back into nation states, especially the part with the giant snake
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Oct 23, 2017 20:30
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All mythical stories of heroes battling "dragons" can actually be rationally explained as fights with giant snakes.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:33
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Or finding dinosaur fossils and assuming that somebody must have killed it.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:21
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fossils were real animals at one point and we always knew this
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Oct 24, 2017 04:20
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naem posted:Conan was set in the the chaotic dark ages after Bronze Age civilization collapse and before the Iron Age reorganized people back into nation states, especially the part with the giant snake I recall learning in Classical Studies that a lot of Homeric stories and mythology were basically the Greeks looking back at a bygone era before the collapse and reformation of civilisation, a historical wild west where anything could have happened.
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Oct 24, 2017 07:10
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So does anyone know what happened to Cornwall and other big areas of tin mining in this period? There was definitely very large amounts of trade between the British isles and the rest of Europe in the Bronze Age (there are artifacts from the rest of Europe here, and Cornish and Welsh tin all over the place), and presumably some work has been done looking at if there was some kind of horrible war or punitive expedition by some party or other that was real mad about Bronze, but nothing that's like popular knowledge. The reason I'm interested is because there were definite "sides" in Europe at the time of the collapse. You have an Atlantic trading bloc out of Portugal and into the UK + Ireland plus the west coast of France and some of the Spanish interior, and then a much lesser spread of those goods further into the continent, plus the weirdo bridge battle thing. It's not that long a walk, and certainly not that long a sail if you're got a boat that can handle a bit of chop, so there probably were states that were stopping people doing it. Blue Star posted:From what I know, Atlantis isnt something that anyone really believed in. Even at the time, it was just an allegory that Plato came up with and everyone knew it. I think he was using it as a device to contrast with his idea of a perfect Athens. Like, Atlantis was super advanced and powerful but they werent virtuous like the Athenians were, and the Athenians end up defeating them because the gods are on their side, so Atlantis sinks beneath the waves. All of the thinkers and philosophers knew that Atlantis was just something Plato came up with, all through the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages. Im not sure when that changed but I think in the 19th century, when archeology was starting to become a thing, less knowledgeable folks started to make poo poo up about how Atlantis was totally real and Atlanteans founded the Mayans, the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, etc. and they had psychic spiritual powers. But that all came from "modern" people, not ancient times.
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Oct 24, 2017 08:24
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Pfft bronze age, get a load of these guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillia_culture quote:During the Middle Trypillia phase (c. 4000 to 3500 BC), populations belonging to the Cucuteni-Trypillia culture built the largest settlements in Neolithic Europe, some of which contained as many as 3,000 structures and were possibly inhabited by 20,000 to 46,000 people.
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Oct 24, 2017 09:00
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I'm the world's first town drunk.
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Oct 24, 2017 10:09
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Inescapable Duck posted:I'm the world's first town drunk. i'm ur-gay
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Oct 24, 2017 10:14
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SniperWoreConverse posted:did they release the translation of the words in the op I want to know what this supposedly says Good point. I will look it up tonight and try and post it here.
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Oct 24, 2017 15:20
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Speleothing posted:Or finding dinosaur fossils and assuming that somebody must have killed it. Nevermind the bones of sabertooth tigers, mammoths, direwolves and cave bears that were only recently extinct. it's just common sense that a cave full of neolothic monster bones would be inhabited by an even bigger monster iirc nile crocodiles used to get all up around the mediterranean as well poverty goat fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 15:51
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Trauma Dog 3000 posted:i'm ur-gay i invented cucking (your several thousand times great grandfather)
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Oct 24, 2017 16:00
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poverty goat posted:Nevermind the bones of sabertooth tigers, mammoths, direwolves and cave bears that were only recently extinct. it's just common sense that a cave full of neolothic monster bones would be inhabited by an even bigger monster I wish at least a few of the North American megafauna had survived.
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Oct 24, 2017 16:01
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Pfft bronze age, get a load of these guys. i already tried my man, they just dont seem interested in the neolithic. this is bronze town. perhaps we should make our own neolithic thread, maybe give it a flintstones theme?
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Oct 24, 2017 16:03
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We need a new thread to talk about how cool Ötzi was. Killing people with his bow and arrow, and pulling the arrows out of them to kill again.
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Oct 24, 2017 16:13
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:We need a new thread to talk about how cool Ötzi was. They probably lured him into that glacier because it was the only was they could ever hope to kill him.
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Oct 24, 2017 16:22
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Rutibex posted:i already tried my man, they just dont seem interested in the neolithic. this is bronze town. perhaps we should make our own neolithic thread, maybe give it a flintstones theme? Naw, I'm super into it. The real trick is to get people to stop talking about iron age things like Rome and Greece. Tell me about the big cities. Did Zuul wreck some faces?
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Oct 24, 2017 16:52
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Speleothing posted:Naw, I'm super into it. The real trick is to get people to stop talking about iron age things like Rome and Greece. no one really knows! none of it was written down or remembered. at best we can say things like "this culture makes pottery like this, unlike the culture over here that makes pottery like that". there are mass graves with weapon wounds from that period, so there was definitely something resembling warfare from time to time: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/17/mass-grave-prehistoric-warfare-ancient-european-farming-community-neolithic
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Oct 24, 2017 16:58
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wide stance posted:I still find it ironic that the only hard* evidence of a large bronze age battle is way the heck north of civilization, of which no account of history can make any sense of. Long article about the battle here: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle  quote:A bronze arrow penetrated this skull, reaching the brain.
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Oct 24, 2017 18:50
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Randaconda posted:I wish at least a few of the North American megafauna had survived. I wonder is somebody accidentally left the gate open, would giraffes and elephants walk out of zoos and be able to survive in the south? As long as nobody shot them of c. Everything's bigger in Texas so why not?
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Oct 24, 2017 19:12
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Inescapable Duck posted:I recall learning in Classical Studies that a lot of Homeric stories and mythology were basically the Greeks looking back at a bygone era before the collapse and reformation of civilisation, a historical wild west where anything could have happened. Since bronze doesn't rust we have this wealth of amazing material culture to study from this era (and lots of curiosity as a result) but very few solid facts. We still have to guess about things to this day. These are 3000 year old swords from China as sharp as the day they were made-     
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Oct 24, 2017 19:26
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:We need a new thread to talk about how cool Ötzi was. I was going to ask about him. was he from the bronze age?
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Oct 24, 2017 20:06
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Randaconda posted:I wish at least a few of the North American megafauna had survived. last photo of surviving megafauna, dated 1893
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Oct 24, 2017 20:12
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Rutibex posted:i already tried my man, they just dont seem interested in the neolithic. this is bronze town. perhaps we should make our own neolithic thread, maybe give it a flintstones theme? And how did the people in the eastern Mediterranean regions and Mesopotamia get so much more advanced than everyone else early on? Does it just boil down to "trade hub"?
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Oct 24, 2017 20:14
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Pistol_Pete posted:Long article about the battle here: Thanks! That was an interesting read.
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Oct 24, 2017 20:21
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ArmZ posted:I was going to ask about him. was he from the bronze age? He was a Neolithic man. He had a copper axe though.
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Oct 24, 2017 20:25
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Someone earlier mentioned giant snakes. There actually were giant snakes and lizards in prehistoric times, like the titanoboa and megalania. Also terrestrial crocodiles in Australia. They were all too ancient to coexist with Neolithic or Bronze Age humans, but man, just think if they did. That scene in Conan the Barbarian where they steal the jewel from the temple could have really happened. There were actually mammoths in Siberia up until historical times, too.
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Oct 24, 2017 20:42
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naem posted:Since bronze doesn't rust we have this wealth of amazing material culture to study from this era (and lots of curiosity as a result) but very few solid facts. We still have to guess about things to this day. how were these made, seriously. They're beautiful. I want to melt down my beer cans and steal scrap copper and make this how do I do it
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Oct 24, 2017 21:04
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Yeah, they were extinct at 1700 BC, which means that there were still mammoths around when people started building pyramids in Egypt.
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Oct 24, 2017 21:04
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