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Hillary Clinton posted:abloo bloo bloo it's everybody's fault but mine You offer nothing. You support nothing. You cry about anything that isn't slavish devotion to lovely candidates that won't make big money donors worry. If you want the support of the left, stop acting like Republicans, except we like gays (that donate(also cops are cool stop making us look bad BLM)). You supported a trash candidate, and she lost to loving Donald Trump. Donald loving Trump. An eighties punchline, a real estate conman from the Reagan era, hated by all parties that aren't frothing bigots, and your worthless garbage candidate's only offer was "I'm not him." https://secure.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547 quote:Everybody could see Hillary Clinton was cooked in Iowa. So when, a week-and-a-half out, the Service Employees International Union started hearing anxiety out of Michigan, union officials decided to reroute their volunteers, giving a desperate team on the ground around Detroit some hope.
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Oct 25, 2017 01:49
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please do not argue with Fulchrum
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Oct 25, 2017 01:52
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loquacius posted:I'm still a big Keith proponent Well, precedent suggests he could get the vice presidency.  Actually that sounds like a safe bet. Centrist democrat presidential candidate with further left vice president, then another four years of Donald and/or Mike Pence because life is bad, and then Kanye/Zuckerberg or something. As morons continue to take office, over several decades the role of president becomes less privileged and more ceremonial until their only duty is turkey pardoning and giving out medals. Hillary dies at age 81, Sanders dies two years later, it is generally accepted that Hillary murdered him, BLM is a celebrated part of history and thank god we dealt with police violence and I wonder why hooligans these days are still protesting systemic racism now that equality is achieved how come black people are always angry for no reason?? Lockheed-Google-Coke-Fitz Inc. owns everything. Unions are dead and the robber barons were misunderstood geniuses. What's wrong, we wonder. We wake up Demolition Man and ask him. He doesn't know, but he seems glad we legalized open carry.
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Oct 25, 2017 02:14
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Lol imagine unironically interacting with Fulchrum in TYOOL 2017
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 02:33
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Oct 25, 2017 02:43
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loquacius posted:
Just because there's no obvious candidate doesn't mean none exists. People had barely heard of Barack Obama at this time in 2005. ryonguy posted:You couldn't even get Hillary to get behind raising the minimum wage or supporting single payer through the whole drat election, the most limpdick of marginally leftist ideology imaginable, and the rest of the DNC selectorate are the same. Well that's just a lie. Hillary Clinton did support raising the minimum wage. "I'm in favor of $12/hr with higher wage decisions to be made locally." "BERNIE SAID $15/HR AND ANY LESS MEANS YOU'RE NOT A TRUE PROGRESSIVE!" And you're required to agree with Sanders on health care or you're not a true liberal? These purity tests are silly. Clinton had been trying to improve health care since 1993. Basically Clinton had detailed plans that made sense but weren't as dramatic as what Sanders suggested, so she gets smeared as too cautious. Clinton could produce an in-depth policy proposal on how to achieve progressive goals, and all Sanders had to do was say "mine will be the same but better" and he was the progressive champion. Are we going to spend the next x number of years relitigating this debate? Clinton had a good record of supporting progressive causes. Of course she wasn't perfect, but this idea that she was a corporate shill because OMG BERNIE is driving me up the wall.
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Oct 25, 2017 02:43
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Lol
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Oct 25, 2017 02:44
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Erenthal posted:What the gently caress? Recent law passed in Texas stating that anything funded with state funds can not go to business that boycott Israel. So that means if you sign up to help out with clean up, you have to sign an agreement to also not boycott Israel. http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/html/HB00089I.htm https://www.snopes.com/texas-harvey-israel/
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Oct 25, 2017 02:46
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Jurgan posted:Well that's just a lie. Hillary Clinton did support raising the minimum wage. "I'm in favor of $12/hr with higher wage decisions to be made locally." "BERNIE SAID $15/HR AND ANY LESS MEANS YOU'RE NOT A TRUE PROGRESSIVE!" And you're required to agree with Sanders on health care or you're not a true liberal? These purity tests are silly. Clinton had been trying to improve health care since 1993. Basically Clinton had detailed plans that made sense but weren't as dramatic as what Sanders suggested, so she gets smeared as too cautious. Clinton could produce an in-depth policy proposal on how to achieve progressive goals, and all Sanders had to do was say "mine will be the same but better" and he was the progressive champion. Are we going to spend the next x number of years relitigating this debate? Clinton had a good record of supporting progressive causes. Of course she wasn't perfect, but this idea that she was a corporate shill because OMG BERNIE is driving me up the wall. Yeah man, it just isn't fair. You give one little multi hundred of thousand dollar series of secret speeches to Wall Street financiers, and people get the crazy idea that you're beholden to their ideals first or something!
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Oct 25, 2017 02:47
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah man, it just isn't fair. You give one little multi hundred of thousand dollar series of secret speeches to Wall Street financiers, and people get the crazy idea that you're beholden to their ideals first or something! Gotta keep switching out those bullshit talking points over and over, otherwise you might be forced to deal with some part of reality. ryonguy posted:You supported a trash candidate, and she lost to loving Donald Trump. Donald loving Trump. An eighties punchline, a real estate conman from the Reagan era, hated by all parties that aren't frothing bigots, and your worthless garbage candidate's only offer was "I'm not him." You cannot just point to Trump as someone who America would inherently never vote for and then blame Hillary for doing the exact same thing. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 03:08
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah man, it just isn't fair. You give one little multi hundred of thousand dollar series of secret speeches to Wall Street financiers, and people get the crazy idea that you're beholden to their ideals first or something! I hate Wall Street but gently caress you if you wouldn’t take every dime they offered you just to speak.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:14
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Avenging_Mikon posted:I hate Wall Street but gently caress you if you wouldn’t take every dime they offered you just to speak. Obviously I would, because I'm poor as hell and not in a position of political power.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:18
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Zil posted:Recent law passed in Texas stating that anything funded with state funds can not go to business that boycott Israel. So that means if you sign up to help out with clean up, you have to sign an agreement to also not boycott Israel. Not just for helping out, either; if you want to get aid from the state government, you have to agree to that clause as a "gently caress you BDS".
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Oct 25, 2017 03:20
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Avenging_Mikon posted:I hate Wall Street but gently caress you if you wouldn’t take every dime they offered you just to speak. I would not afterward pretend to be a champion of progressive values, because I have the tiniest capacity for shame.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:24
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Yeah I'd take their money and pay for school because I'm poor. If I was a millionaire who purported to be a progressive, no, I wouldn't. Actually, on second thought, I would take it but then immediately spend it all on Molotovs to throw at cops, not take it for personal gain.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:27
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Crazycryodude posted:Actually, on second thought, I would take it but then immediately spend it all on Molotovs to throw at cops, not take it for personal gain. That's going to look bad when they bring it up during your presidential run.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:32
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Did we ever see the speech transcripts? Maybe she gave bad ones on purpose, to undermine capitalism.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:36
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gently caress. I laughed. Good puns get me every time.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:47
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Jurgan posted:
One of these will motivate more voters than the other and it doesn't even have to do with who's "more progressive." "Fight for 15" will simply get more voters out to the polls than "12 or Whatevs". Punchier slogan, bigger number, you name it. Your average voter doesn't give a loving poo poo about the lawmaking process or compromises or even details, they want to feel listened to, they want to feel like someone is actually going to fight for them, and they just plain want to vote in their own self interests. It also helps to make more of an effort to actually sell your plans
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Oct 25, 2017 03:52
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:"Fight for 15" will simply get more voters out to the polls than "12 or Whatevs". Which is basically "12 and you're hosed if you live in a red state."
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Oct 25, 2017 03:54
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:One of these will motivate more voters than the other and it doesn't even have to do with who's "more progressive." Yeah, one tries to make it able to be altered to parts of the country where it fits better, and one wants to declare that what works for New York must work for all of America.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:58
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:One of these will motivate more voters than the other and it doesn't even have to do with who's "more progressive." How far does that go? Should it be "Fight for 50" next time? Your phrasing here suggests that the only goal should be to grab votes at any cost regardless of whether you intend to actually fight for those things or believe you can fulfill any of your promises to voters.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:00
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:grab votes at any cost regardless of whether you intend to actually fight for those things or believe you can fulfill any of your promises to voters. and how do you think Trump got elected, exactly?
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Oct 25, 2017 04:09
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So, $12 is in Evil Centrist territory while $15 is in Righteous
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Oct 25, 2017 04:10
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Shangri-Law School posted:So, $12 is in Evil Centrist territory while $15 is in Righteous It's more the idea of negotiating from a compromise position has been proven to be a completely stupid idea by all the dumb bullshit that happened with Obama. Start by asking for what you really want and maybe accept $12 if it's all you can get at the end of the day, but don't start with $12 and get negotiated down to $9.50.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:12
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WampaLord posted:It's more the idea of negotiating from a compromise position has been proven to be a completely stupid idea by all the dumb bullshit that happened with Obama. Counterfactual what-ifs aren't proof. And negotiation is about leverage, not demanding everything and automatically getting the average of the two positions.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:17
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Sagebrush posted:and how do you think Trump got elected, exactly? So you are saying we should elect a demagogue of our own with no intent to actually fix anything? Just lie our way into power because power is an end unto itself?
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Oct 25, 2017 04:19
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Just lie our way into power It's like some of you don't even realize what politics is. Do you think Hillary was telling the truth about what she could get accomplished?
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Oct 25, 2017 04:19
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WampaLord posted:It's like some of you don't even realize what politics is. If you believe in using deceit to gain power and thereby eroding trust in the government and its institutions you are part of the problem. Your attitude is what causes people like Trump and the republican party to win.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:25
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WampaLord posted:It's like some of you don't even realize what politics is. Yes. That was entirely the problem. She made sure to keep everything she said grounded in reality. That's why she couldn't just start promising magical unicorns and poo poo.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:25
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:If you believe in using deceit to gain power and thereby eroding trust in the government and its institutions you are part of the problem. Your attitude is what causes people like Trump and the republican party to win. It's not just Hillary, either. Do you think Bernie actually could have passed free college or a $15 minimum wage? Probably not! All politicians lie about what is possible to get votes. This is called campaigning. "Trust in government" loving lmao, how old are you? Go look up some favorability ratings of Congress over time, there has almost never been trust in government.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:27
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WampaLord posted:It's not just Hillary, either. Do you think Bernie actually could have passed free college or a $15 minimum wage? Probably not! No, campaigning is clearly when you put your platform online and then run a campaign based on talking about how bad your opponent is while trying to moneyball the electoral college.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:28
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:So you are saying we should elect a demagogue of our own with no intent to actually fix anything? Just lie our way into power because power is an end unto itself? I wouldn't characterize it as "lying" so much as just being bombastic and optimistic about one's plans. Trump wasn't lying when he said he wanted to build a wall; whether or not he can actually do that, well, that remains to be seen, but the point is that he wanted to. That got people to vote for him because they liked the idea. Doesn't really matter whether it's truly feasible. If politician B says "I'm going to raise wages to 15 bucks an hour and free college for all of you!" and politician H says "twelve dollars an hour, in some states, and reduced rates on student loans for the needy!" who the gently caress do you think is going to attract more votes? Is the point in the campaign to be measured and realistic about your plans, or is it to fire people up so that they don't vote for the other guy, because if he gets in you don't get to do anything at all? Not to mention that you always start your demands from an unrealistically high position in order to leave room for haggling. That's something that even an inbred hillbilly on Cragislist can figure out.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:34
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Sagebrush posted:I wouldn't characterize it as "lying" so much as just being bombastic and optimistic about one's plans. Trump wasn't lying when he said he wanted to build a wall; whether or not he can actually do that, well, that remains to be seen, but the point is that he wanted to. That got people to vote for him because they liked the idea. Doesn't really matter whether it's truly feasible. And thats why leftists have never claimed that Obama lied to them and betrayed them. Oh, wait. There's a huge difference between being overly optimistic, which Obama did, and lying, which Trump absolutely did (Even if you want to be weaselly and claim he totally always meant to build a real wall, that Mexico will pay for it BS makes him an absolute loving liar. As does his plan to defeat Isis in 30 days, his promise to release his tax returns, his divesting from his businesses, and his totally real case against Hillary Clinton to lock her up). However, both still get you called a liar if you can't do it. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 04:42
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MLK already settled this, if you want a dime dont ask for 5 cents, ask for 15. Jesus guys read about your progressive foredads
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Oct 25, 2017 04:46
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Sagebrush posted:Not to mention that you always start your demands from an unrealistically high position in order to leave room for haggling. That's something that even an inbred hillbilly on Cragislist can figure out. hill-what? craig who? look man, there are two types of voters who go democrat: we high-minded sophisticates who understand the intricacies of politicks, and those dumb ol' bernie bros who are dumb dumby heads and we hate them and they smell bad and why won't they vote for us. if there are any other kinds of voters, surely we very smart people would have heard of them
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Oct 25, 2017 04:48
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Jonas Albrecht posted:No, campaigning is clearly when you put your platform online and then run a campaign based on talking about how bad your opponent is while trying to moneyball the electoral college. This lie is never going to be put to bed, but I'll try anyway. Here is Hillary's convention speech: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-dnc-transcript.html?_r=0 Here is a typical stump speech: http://www.npr.org/2016/09/15/493924325/inside-hillary-clintons-stump-speech-annotated There's a poo poo-ton of policy in there. Lots of little details that are pretty neat, like universal broadband or childcare aid. For Pete's sake, as every Garrison reader knows, she campaigned until she literally collapsed. Her campaign wasn't spectacular, but it was good enough to get 65 million votes, and certainly not the election-losing liability that people insist it was.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:49
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I'll remind people that no less than 5 times, major news networks muted Hillarys campaign speeches and put her in a tiny box in the corner, in order to focus on an empty podium that Trump would speak at in an hour.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:52
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Shangri-Law School posted:
i forget, was this before or after she disappeared for nearly the entire month of august to attend private big-donor fundraisers
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Oct 25, 2017 04:54
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WampaLord posted:It's not just Hillary, either. Do you think Bernie actually could have passed free college or a $15 minimum wage? Probably not! If people don't have any trust in the government, or in the politicians, then why should they even bother to vote? This lying to voters, this lack of respect, this is what has lead to depressed turnouts all across the country, if more people voted the republicans would be out on their asses. Regaining the trust of the electorate is the path to both winning elections and fixing this country. But apparently you couldn't care less about that, for you it's "Let's get into power and gently caress people over just like the republicans!"
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Oct 25, 2017 04:56
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