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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah well maybe loving focus up because Hillary didn't say "I think Russian interference is bad, and Kissinger is good," she said "Russian interference is bad" and goons flipped out about it because they don't like her saying anything at all. Kissinger's just the first thing somebody thought to throw at her. It could just as easily have been "pantsuits" or "Bill slept around" because for all you people love to huff your own farts about what genius political strategists you are, you can't even filter out the propaganda in your own media diets. Maybe you're the one who needs to focus, because I was answering your disingenuous HILLARY ISN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES MEN COMMIT posts. I don't give a rat's rear end what she says about Russia.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:52
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Willa Rogers posted:Maybe you're the one who needs to focus, because I was answering your disingenuous HILLARY ISN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES MEN COMMIT posts. I don't give a rat's rear end what she says about Russia. Then you don't give a rat's rear end about the topic of this conversation so maybe you should go back to your main gig of labeling every prominent black politician a degenerate.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:54
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:"We can't possibly be sexist! No no, no one would ever argue that. It's much more plausible that this person is making an extreme, nonsensical fringe argument instead. Why yes, I'll just take the liberty of revising their posts so they can make their point more clearly." Yeah TB, it's other people misrepresenting you in this thread, 100%, I'm glad you've managed to stay above everyone else in that regard. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Click back like, a couple pages dude. And if you're about to wad up some gross-rear end "no true scotsman" argument about the general tenor of this thread, save it. Republicans don't get attacked here, "centrists*" do Tiny Brontosaurus posted:What does the meek and docile Hillary you all require say about any issue? "Russian interference is cool and good"? If you don't like a woman she's no longer allowed to have any opinions about anything? Building cages where there's no way a woman can turn that lets her escape being attacked by you is one of the clearest signs of sexism. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Have you guys figured out what you'll slander Tammy Duckworth with the minute she has the temerity to run against a comfortingly patriarchal white man? Don't limit yourself to her gender crimes, remember there's a fun racism angle you can work too. Hell, why not some ableism! Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The gently caress even is this post. MWAHA, FE-MALES all being identical, I have cannily cornered you into my cunning trap! Twas your vagina that led you astray! Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Maybe if you took a split-second break from jerking off to lynching videos you could get your loving eyes checked and maybe see if that helps your reading skills. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:It is though, you just think it's okay because FEEEEMAAALEESSS.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:54
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Sorry, C. Everett Koop already claimed the "strawman TB's arguments" position. Maybe you'd like to pitch in on special teams? Nobody's emailed me a picture of a lynched body yet today. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That's a really good point, and to build on it, we have to make progress and growth rewarding. Do we want people to make good decisions or keep making bad ones? This original sin approach to politicians changing their policy or rhetoric is just shallow team politics. It assumes that as soon as you praise someone once you can never criticize them again. Flake's good because he's agitating Donnie. We want GOP infighting, it weakens them. Schumer opening up to income equality is good, it means he's listening to the people he represents. If you're holding your breath for politicians who only take progressive stances out of the goodness of their hearts, well, you're doing the gene pool a favor. Politics is about making incentives align with policy goals - from a 5 cent tax on plastic bags to a reelection bid. If politicians are incentivized to say no to Donnie or yes to socialists that's a victory, you sad sacks. Yes, let's reward the good Jeff Flake.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:54
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Ze Pollack posted:hmm. why ~would~ people who claim their goal is to promote left-wing politics focus on the policy failures of the person whose failure to hold together the Obama coalition resulted in a fat senile snake oil salesman taking over every level of American government, instead of murdering random soldiers The obvious, mean-spirited answer is that you're willing to let war crimes slip by because you don't actually care about the crimes committed except as a way to justify whining. Because I fail to see how any of this poo poo is relevant to your beef as presented here, unless you sincerely and truly think that whatever part of the Obama coalition that didn't vote Dem in 2016 were all deeply aware of Henry Kissinger. Indeed, you transparently don't consider American war crimes relevant for anything except focusing on someone who will never run for office again and yelling about her daring to continue to exist in public life, because left-wing activists don't propose any kind of restorative or transformative justice for American war crimes, including, for example, the case of Libya. Possibly this is because you know that this would force you to confront the limits of leftist ideology's grip on the American imagination. Possibly not. In any case, the point should also be made that your method of accomplishing political change rejects the idea of incorporating the people who voted for the woman you detest so, and thus it is difficult to see how you would achieve your political goals without recourse to uncivil means directed against the people you obviously consider your primary opposition. That is, if you intend to achieve any sort of political goals at all.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:55
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:THIS time my sexism is okay because... I mean, she also said that he was one of the men she most admired in a debate. I think it was the Flint one?
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Oct 26, 2017 00:56
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Then you don't give a rat's rear end about the topic of this conversation so maybe you should go back to your main gig of labeling every prominent black politician a degenerate. The moving of goalposts because of your fever dreams is truly something to behold.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:58
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theCalamity posted:Yes, let's reward the good Jeff Flake. Yeah the "rewarding" wasn't aimed at Flake, you lying shitass. I said it's good when republicans fight each other, which it is, but that was a sidebar to my broader point which none of you vanguard revolutionaries can comprehend what with your busy schedules of discrediting every non-white/cis/male person who's ever had their name in print, which is that activism is only effective when there are rubriks for success. If you want to change people's minds, you have to stop whining when you succeed. In general, room-temp. If any of you here had the balls to go "You know what, I think I have internalized a lot of sexist propaganda about Hillary and I'm going to work on that" I'd applaud you, because unlike you morons who only started paying attention to politics when daddy made you pay your own credit card bill, I know that politics isn't about who's on what team. Willa Rogers posted:The moving of goalposts because of your fever dreams is truly something to behold. Remembering who you are and how you act is not a "goalpost," Becky.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:59
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If Hillary had the level of passion for something some of her supporters still have for her then she would be somewhere very different right now. That's a compliment towards TB btw, not a slight
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Oct 26, 2017 01:00
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How many pages until we get to the puppetmaster part? I'm hoping at least like 10-20 because this is sensational trolling.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:01
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Neurolimal posted:If Hillary had the level of passion for something some of her supporters still have for her then she would be somewhere very different right now. That's a compliment towards TB btw, not a slight Asserting Hillary doesn't have any passion for anything political seems strange and misguided to me. Maybe not for things you might want, but that assumes a lot of understanding of her inner thoughts that I don't think you ought to. This is, after all, the lady that started her career on the team going after Nixon and working to desegregate Alabama schools. Even if you think Hillary is awful, she at one point was a young idealist like all of us and presumably still thinks she's a good person.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Remembering who you are and how you act is not a "goalpost," Becky. Creating whole-cloth lies about sexism to creating whole-cloth lies about racism in a nanosecond is moving a goalpost, Slashie.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:05
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Neurolimal posted:If Hillary had the level of passion for something some of her supporters still have for her then she would be somewhere very different right now. That's a compliment towards TB btw, not a slight I voted for Bernie in the primary, guys. I just have this radical fringe opinion that sexism is wrong. Willa Rogers posted:Creating whole-cloth lies about sexism to creating whole-cloth lies about racism in a nanosecond is moving a goalpost, Slashie. Lmao you're one of those! I'd give anything to see the expression on someone's face if you tell them about the evil murdering billionaire stalking your internet chat club. USPOL: A place where qualified female politicians aren't real but Batman is.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:05
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Lightning Knight posted:Asserting Hillary doesn't have any passion for anything political seems strange and misguided to me. Maybe not for things you might want, but that assumes a lot of understanding of her inner thoughts that I don't think you ought to. Sure, it's not a post I'm going to argue over for pages, I just wanted to say that it kind of befuddles me how many people still pin their hopes on her even after two tell-alls detailing how she needed a team of people to find a reason for her to run. I won't say she's done nothing good, just that a lot of the people around her seemed to be more into the idea of Hillary Clinton, POTUS, than Hillary Clinton herself. I've argued before in other threads that Clinton's politics WRT womens rights has been consistently good throughout her career.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:06
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Willa Rogers posted:Creating whole-cloth lies about sexism to creating whole-cloth lies about racism in a nanosecond is moving a goalpost, Slashie. I'm intrigued by this idea that there cannot be any sexism in how people treat Clinton so long as they've declared their allegiance to Bernie Sanders. Can this be generalized further? Can we, perhaps by immersion in properly prepared water, wash sexism away? Could we do this to all bigotry, annihilate it without annihilating it? The world wonders.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:07
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Nikalajoga posted:I'm intrigued by this idea that there cannot be any sexism in how people treat Clinton so long as they've declared their allegiance to Bernie Sanders. Can this be generalized further? Can we, perhaps by immersion in properly prepared water, wash sexism away? Could we do this to all bigotry, annihilate it without annihilating it? The world wonders. is that you b5?
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Oct 26, 2017 01:08
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Condiv posted:is that you b5? We are not nearly deep enough into a meltdown to start wondering that.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:09
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Lightning Knight posted:Even if you think Hillary is awful, she at one point was a young idealist like all of us and presumably still thinks she's a good person. I'm sure she thinks she's a good person. Lots of terrible people think they're good people. But just because she thinks something doesn't make it true.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:09
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Nikalajoga posted:I'm intrigued by this idea that there cannot be any sexism in how people treat Clinton so long as they've declared their allegiance to Bernie Sanders. Can this be generalized further? Can we, perhaps by immersion in properly prepared water, wash sexism away? Could we do this to all bigotry, annihilate it without annihilating it? The world wonders. I don't think anyone is saying there can't be any sexism in how people treat Clinton. Only that there's a lot of genuine reasons to have disdain for her politics. Being a career-long friend of Kissinger and listing him off when referring to her foreign credentials is a pretty big one.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:09
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Also, to anyone who doesn't think the centrism slur is real, see all the 'fishhook theory confirmed' posts. Nobody is saying no criticism against Democrats. We are saying don't be a misogynist when doing it. Saying that Hillary failed because of her message is real criticism. Saying she should shut up forever is not.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:09
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C. Everett Koop posted:I'm sure she thinks she's a good person. Lots of terrible people think they're good people. But just because she thinks something doesn't make it true. That wasn't the point. My point is, even if you believe that Hillary is a terrible, awful person, she still should serve as a cautionary tale of how people with good intentions can go bad when they become part of the system, should you be so inclined to view her that way.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:10
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Neurolimal posted:I don't think anyone is saying there can't be any sexism in how people treat Clinton. Only that there's a lot of genuine reasons to have disdain for her politics. Being a career-long friend of Kissinger and listing him off when referring to her foreign credentials is a pretty big one. You clearly don't think at all, because the post I just quoted did, in fact, say that.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:10
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Nikalajoga posted:You clearly don't think at all, because the post I just quoted did, in fact, say that. Not really? the line you quoted is referring to suggesting that a dislike of her relation to Kissinger and his politics as being not-sexism.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:12
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah the "rewarding" wasn't aimed at Flake, you lying shitass. I said it's good when republicans fight each other, which it is, but that was a sidebar to my broader point which none of you vanguard revolutionaries can comprehend what with your busy schedules of discrediting every non-white/cis/male person who's ever had their name in print, which is that activism is only effective when there are rubriks for success. If you want to change people's minds, you have to stop whining when you succeed. In general, room-temp. I just went back and your quote was in direct relation to Flake, a person who still votes with Trump 90% of the time. A person who would still enact terrible things for everyone with a different Republican at the helm. It's great that Republicans are infighting, but we shouldn't reward them for it. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:If any of you here had the balls to go "You know what, I think I have internalized a lot of sexist propaganda about Hillary and I'm going to work on that" I'd applaud you, because unlike you morons who only started paying attention to politics when daddy made you pay your own credit card bill, I know that politics isn't about who's on what team. I think the problem is that a lot of that propaganda is true and you don't know how to deal with it so you call us racists or sexists or both.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:12
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Also, to anyone who doesn't think the centrism slur is real, see all the 'fishhook theory confirmed' posts. That was returning fire after fifteen years of horseshoe theory.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:13
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Nikalajoga posted:I'm intrigued by this idea that there cannot be any sexism in how people treat Clinton so long as they've declared their allegiance to Bernie Sanders. Can this be generalized further? Can we, perhaps by immersion in properly prepared water, wash sexism away? Could we do this to all bigotry, annihilate it without annihilating it? The world wonders. lol. [ASK] Me About the Sexism I Saw From Obama Supporters in 2008. There's been a ton of sexism directed at Clinton from the time she became first lady of Arkansas to last year's election. But criticizing her for bragging on the support of an indicted war criminal isn't sexist, and it's nothing less than revolting to say it is.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:13
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Nikalajoga posted:You clearly don't think at all, because the post I just quoted did, in fact, say that. it didn't. you might want to reread what you quoted
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Oct 26, 2017 01:13
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Neurolimal posted:I don't think anyone is saying there can't be any sexism in how people treat Clinton. Only that there's a lot of genuine reasons to have disdain for her politics. Being a career-long friend of Kissinger and listing him off when referring to her foreign credentials is a pretty big one. But it wasn't referring to her foreign credentials, it was referring to "Hillary Clinton Said A Thing." It's like how you don't get to bring up Israel's apartheid every time Hannukah rolls around. You know when Hillary's admiration for Kissinger was relevant? When she came up for SoS, a move I opposed. It was relevant when she was running for president, which most of you seem to think she's still doing. It's not relevant just because she popped up in the news again. She's famous, she'll be in the news intermittently until she dies, and y'all are just going to have to cope. It came out today that GHW Bush groped a woman, nobody in here cares about that. Trump's administration is still a tire fire, nobody cares about that. The only people you guys ever criticize in here are Democrats, and I imagine that's only because most of you can't name any socialists.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:16
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:the centrism slur
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Oct 26, 2017 01:16
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Falstaff posted:That was returning fire after fifteen years of horseshoe theory. Viewing politics as war without actually having the means to kill, maim, or disenfranchise your opponents seems like a pretty futile exercise. Willa Rogers posted:lol. [ASK] Me About the Sexism I Saw From Obama Supporters in 2008. Why isn't it sexist, given that there are a lot of men who are chummy with that old monster but receive not one-tenth of the condemnation? That is, given an obvious disparity on the basis of gender or sex, one which transparently benefits cis men, the assumption is that it's revolting to call that sexist, or a manifestation of sexism. And you lack the means to make that received wisdom, so it should require some justification. What it will get is some flailing about over how people are defending Kissinger.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:16
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theCalamity posted:I think the problem is that a lot of that propaganda is true
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Oct 26, 2017 01:17
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:A "leftist" everybody. you shouldn't be throwing these kinds of stones after your shameful display yesterday when you were advocating for loving on a republican shitheel
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Oct 26, 2017 01:20
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:But it wasn't referring to her foreign credentials, it was referring to "Hillary Clinton Said A Thing." It's like how you don't get to bring up Israel's apartheid every time Hannukah rolls around. In my defense, I don't comment on the GHW news because there's a (surprisingly pretty good) thread on sex assault and coverups going on in GBS (the Weinstein one) that is talking about it in more detail than it would in this thread, which tends to have different subject materials. Everyone cares about Trump's administration, but at the same time what can be done or talked about for it? There's a trump thread for TVIV style reactions, but without an actual point of contention between posters you can't really summon a discussion out of thin air about it. That's the biggest issue with the "what about X" posts; everyone here in general agrees that X is Y, so there's nothing to argue over and create pages of posts over. Democrats are a more sensitive topic, so D critique generates more pages of discussion. I will freely admit that bringing up Kissinger was a bit of a nonsequitur when talking about russian involvement, but I guess I'm more likely to attribute that to a disdain for her ForPol in general. Obvious we disagree there, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong, just being a little heavy-handed.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:21
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Condiv posted:you shouldn't be throwing these kinds of stones after your shameful display yesterday when you were advocating for loving on a republican shitheel Oh no Condiv repeated a lie, I better repeat my rebuttal and get trapped in this cycle forever. Thus sexism is saved!
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Oct 26, 2017 01:21
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Condiv posted:you shouldn't be throwing these kinds of stones after your shameful display yesterday when you were advocating for loving on a republican shitheel This is just a cowardly way of dodging the criticism. Either that post was shameful, or it wasn't, and that doesn't change because you're upset about the poster who pointed out the shame of it.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:21
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C. Everett Koop posted:How many pages until we get to the puppetmaster part? I'm hoping at least like 10-20 because this is sensational trolling. Please, TB never gives away the game. I haven't seen anything like it since the time of Fishmech.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:21
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:But it wasn't referring to her foreign credentials, it was referring to "Hillary Clinton Said A Thing." It's like how you don't get to bring up Israel's apartheid every time Hannukah rolls around. To be fair this threads focus on democrats mostly comes from Trump (and thus the Republican party) already having his own thread, and this basically being the successor to the Democrats are a Waste thread doesn't help. It turns out there's not much to talk about in US politics once you take out the dominant political party in literally every branch of government.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:21
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Neurolimal posted:In my defense, I don't comment on the GHW news because there's a (surprisingly pretty good) thread on sex assault and coverups going on in GBS (the Weinstein one) that is talking about it in more detail than it would in this thread, which tends to have different subject materials. This is the most civil conversation I've ever had with someone on my ignore list. I appreciate it. 
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Oct 26, 2017 01:22
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:A "leftist" everybody. You called a lot of true criticism of Clinton propaganda. I'm just using your vernacular.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:22
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Nikalajoga posted:Viewing politics as war without actually having the means to kill, maim, or disenfranchise your opponents seems like a pretty futile exercise. yep, it is but good luck seeing somebody make a good argument against this point
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Oct 26, 2017 01:22
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