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It was also really damned effective. I mean, no so much that it could operate independently without support like you see later, but still a real power on the battlefield. Check out the 16th century Moroccan invasion of Songhay to see what happens when an early black powder army pairs off with what was essentially a late medieval army.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:09 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:52 |
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Or maybe these guns were not poo poo but in the context of their times actually decently effective weapons of war.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:10 |
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HEY GAIL posted:I'm trying to make a graph to compare the pay of pikemen, halberdiers, and musketeers. I want to convey this: how were halberdiers used on a battlefield- mixed in with pike blocks?
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:16 |
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Siivola posted:How did we ever get into blackpowder warfare if arquebuses were such poo poo, anyway? I mean, both Japan and Europe developed pike and shot tactics independently of each other and then rocked face with them, what gives? It's not that the arquebus was useless, it's that what made it useful wasn't heavily influenced by how good a shot an individual musketeer was.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:23 |
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but you can't use them while transporting your army so really, who's the real winner hereStashAugustine posted:how were halberdiers used on a battlefield- mixed in with pike blocks?
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:25 |
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HEY GAIL posted:but you can't use them while transporting your army so really, who's the real winner here
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:30 |
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Except that Oda Nobunaga would split off his most accurate gunners into a separate independent unit because he was an idiot I guess.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:33 |
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Fangz posted:Except that Oda Nobunaga would split off his most accurate gunners into a separate independent unit because he was an idiot I guess. More of a big fool, really.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:38 |
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Fangz posted:Another thought: People present 'only 50% hit at 100 yards!' as 'oh my, muskets are inaccurate and ineffective', but that's by modern standards. If you get all your musketeers to shoot the enemy, and half of those shots hit, then you've just won the battle. Also lol if people think that we have a 50% hit rate nowadays. More bullets just made people more trigger happy.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:43 |
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OwlFancier posted:Also lol if people think that we have a 50% hit rate nowadays. More bullets just made people more trigger happy.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:46 |
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HEY GAIL posted:if sixteen shots a day was good enough for montecuccoli, it's good enough for me Slightly better performance than three hundred years later, even.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 19:50 |
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Siivola posted:How did we ever get into blackpowder warfare if arquebuses were such poo poo, anyway? I mean, both Japan and Europe developed pike and shot tactics independently of each other and then rocked face with them, what gives? Shot from arquebuses very likely ruins your day if you get hit, unlike arrows and slingshot. Wearing armor, you might get unlucky and catch one in the face or in the armpit, but at least there's a better chance that your armor can resist. Check out "Notes on arrow wounds" from 1862 or so, where one doc took notes about arrow wounds, where people were struck how often and if they died. Turns out that getting hit in the abdomen is a guaranteed kill. With breastplates and helmets you take care of the most sensible parts, and the rest is treatable to a good degree. Once you bring firearms into the equation, these stop being reliable protection. They're also loving loud. When I was in Poland, one of these drunk guys who looked like a Klingon from TOS loaded one of the small field pieces there and fired it.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:05 |
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I'm not trying to hit him, I'm trying to suppress him.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:08 |
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Reconnaissance by fire!
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:12 |
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If you took an M4 and fired it at musket range at a stationary man sized target, you'd probably have more than 50% accuracy. However, M4s are more often used at about 300 meters or so with the intention of pinning the enemy long enough for artillery to fall on their head. I think it's not fair to compare a musket to an assault rifle or lovely primitive arquebuses to peak performance muskets 200 years later. Both the qualities of the weapon and their use have changed over the years.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:26 |
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I need a little help, thread: How close is this, both in the opening remarks and the reprinted article, to wehrabooism?
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:30 |
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Nebakenezzer posted:I need a little help, thread: How close is this, both in the opening remarks and the reprinted article, to wehrabooism? quote:Also odd to consider, and equally true: Germany in its current form won’t see a Bicentennial. Forty percent of five-year-olds in Germany have a “migrant background”. Ten percent of the country is African or Middle Eastern today, a figure that will more than double in the next ten years and then double again in the decade following. The new Germans are overwhelmingly young and male. It’s not a migration so much as it is an invasion by brute force, and one that will have longer-lasting consequences than William the Conqueror’s trip across the Channel. By the time my son is my age, Germany will be Islamic and any vestiges of its two-thousand-plus-year ethnic past will be of concern chiefly to the historians among us. uh...
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:31 |
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quote:By the time my son is my age, Germany will be Islamic and any vestiges of its two-thousand-plus-year ethnic past will be of concern chiefly to the historians among us.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:31 |
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JcDent posted:If you took an M4 and fired it at musket range at a stationary man sized target, you'd probably have more than 50% accuracy.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:32 |
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my dad posted:uh...
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:34 |
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Nebakenezzer posted:I need a little help, thread: How close is this, both in the opening remarks and the reprinted article, to wehrabooism?
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:36 |
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Fangz posted:Hahaha German is currently about 5% Muslim so that's quiet a demo shift in a decade or two. And all due to political correctness
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:38 |
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Comrade Gorbash posted:It's the one advantage the halberd would really have in a pike block dude a halberd is a beautiful weapon. they step inside your reach and pin your pike to the ground, push it aside, all sorts of things. they are useful as heck. edit: now what you do if someone's trying to do that to you is to work your way towards the middle of the pike and fight with it from there. If you run you can work your way all the way up, hold it in the crook of one arm, and elbow him with your other arm.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:38 |
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HEY GAIL posted:dude
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:45 |
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they're also handy enough to use indoors when i think about it i wonder if they're the perfect all-around weapon, if it's the 17th century
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:51 |
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HEY GAIL posted:dude "I have a spear, and I like my spear, but I wish my spear had options."
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:53 |
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HEY GAIL posted:they're also handy enough to use indoors
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:57 |
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How do I get a job as a telemachairal taxonomist?
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 20:59 |
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goons with spontoons
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:11 |
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im the chandelier that got mixed in with the late stage halberds.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:14 |
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Spontoon sounds like an esoteric early 20th century racial slur for like Swedes or something.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:16 |
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HEY GAIL posted:goons with spontoons If this isn't the thread name by tomorrow I'm gonna be super pissed
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:17 |
Mazz posted:If this isn't the thread name by tomorrow I'm gonna be super pissed It's been a semi active goon gaming group name for years. We also considered goons with musketoons too.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:17 |
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HEY GAIL posted:goons with spontoons goons with spadroons
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:18 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:It's been a semi active goon gaming group name for years. We also considered goons with musketoons too. Can you keep your musketoon in your pantaloons?
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:20 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:It's been a semi active goon gaming group name for years. We also considered goons with musketoons too. why not DraGoons
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:20 |
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OwlFancier posted:
I think of all of these, Spontoon is one of the few not used by Diablo 2
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:26 |
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HEY GAIL posted:goons with spontoons
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:29 |
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OwlFancier posted:
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:42 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:52 |
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I have a friend really into miniature gaming.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 21:42 |