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ProfessorProf posted:Every murder must be committed directly by a culprit. They don't need to team up for every one. Well if that's the case... then I'm missing something. First of all, if everyone in the dining room is truly dead, then only Battler, Maria, and George are alive on the eighth twilight. The narration and Nanjo's confirmations eliminate everyone else. Furthermore, if this is the case, then Maria and Battler at least must be a culprit, because their statements would contradict the state of things at that time if it were true. ProfessorProf posted:
In addition, George would also be a culprit. ProfessorProf posted:
After all, by our deductions, Maria must have been a culprit, and to do so requires directly killing someone. However, there are two problems with that theory. First, there would be no way for any of the three to enter either the dining room or Natsuhi's bedroom without a master key, which only the servants can have, and Nanjo's statements are proof that all of them are dead and therefore could not be the culprits. Second, and more important is this: ProfessorProf posted:George, Battler, and Maria hurriedly chased after her. Then, outside the building, they found Jessica lying on the ground. It was, as anyone could tell by looking, a gruesome corpse... Emphasis mine. Also, Jessica's statement that nobody in the guesthouse could kill Nanjo. None of them could directly kill Jessica without the narration lying, which can't happen according to the red truth. In order for Jessica to be directly murdered, someone in the dining room would have had to survive... and none of them survived...right? This is the part I'm stuck on. An offscreen murderer is needed to kill Jessica, but nobody else on the island but the survivors could possibly be alive. Any thoughts?
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Oct 27, 2017 18:44
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"Yeah. The three of us couldn't have killed Jessica."
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free Trapt CD posted:This is exactly where I've ended up, and why I really hope there's a flaw in the logic somewhere. It would be heartbreaking if that's actually what happened. Can't we just blame it all on Nanjo and call it a day? It's Bern's game. Of course it's going to be mean. So here's how I think it went down. During the family conference, Kyrie and Rudolf murdered Eva, Hideyoshi, Rosa, and Genji with their steak knives in an argument over money. Filled with remorse (that they didn't get the money immediately and had to wait for it), they locked the door, covered themselves with their siblings' blood and waited for someone to come by. They lay down on the floor away from the rest of the group so that their corpses would be inspected seperately. When the room was opened, Battler, who had been prepared for this circumstance in advance by his parents, raced over to their still-living bodies and then told everyone else they were definitely 100% dead and that nobody should disturb them to further confirm it until the cops could get there. Once everyone was out of the room, they got up and left, hiding in the mansion until they had a chance at another victim. Rudolf noticed Krauss and Natsuhi heading to their room, and followed them in. He murdered them both in there with a priceless sculpture of a red herring from their room, then hid in the closet while everyone investigated. He hadn't expected them to seal the room, but once he found that they had, he decided to just take a nap on the bed and let his wife do the rest of the hard work. Kyrie, meanwhile, had moved over to the guesthouse to catch anyone that went out that way. While everyone was checking the locks on the guesthouse, Battler followed Shannon into the rose garden and quickly bludgeoned her to death with an unabridged copy of Robert's Rules of Order. He then washed his hands calmly and went back to the guesthouse, then acted surprised when she was discovered. Kanon mysteriously decided to return to his home planet at this point. (Kanon died on the way back to his home planet.) Kyrie then throttled Kumasawa and Gohda to death with a fishing line... after catching tuna, not the right kind of fish at all, because she's a monster. Then she cut their corpses a bit to pass the time, then moved to another room in the guesthouse and waited patiently for everyone to freak out again. As soon as Nanjo separated from the main group, she caught him and smashed his skull in with a tiki-themed lamp that Kinzo had left in there from one of his less advisable occult artifact purchases. She hid in a closet near the entranceway waiting for another chance, and got it when Jessica stormed out of the house. She followed Jessica, then knocked her down and stuffed some small bombs down her shirt, which went off immediately and made a mess of her. I think none of that contradicts anything? Anybody notice any holes?
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Oct 27, 2017 18:48
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I'm been skimming through the discussion but isn't this just a more elaborate version of Kyrie's and Rudolf's quiz? Guess the liar, etc.
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Oct 27, 2017 18:50
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idonotlikepeas posted:During the family conference, Kyrie and Rudolf murdered Eva, Hideyoshi, Rosa, and Genji with their steak knives in an argument over money. Filled with remorse (that they didn't get the money immediately and had to wait for it), they locked the door, covered themselves with their siblings' blood and waited for someone to come by. They lay down on the floor away from the rest of the group so that their corpses would be inspected separately. Your theory contradicts this red truth... and Natsuhi and Krauss's deaths occurred on the second twilight, so you can't dodge the red truth using that.
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Oct 27, 2017 18:58
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MayOrMayNotBeACat posted:Your theory contradicts this red truth... and Natsuhi and Krauss's deaths occurred on the second twilight, so you can't dodge the red truth using that. The red truth only says that the culprit killed six people. Not that they killed six people on the first twilight. In fact, it's explicitly said after the second twilight, which makes it more likely that those are included. EDIT: To be clear, the red truth says that the culprit of the first twilight did this... not that they necessarily did it on the first twilight. Like, if I said, "the person who was driving the red car ate an entire cheesecake", that doesn't necessarily mean they did it in the car, it's just a way of identifying the person you're talking about. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 18:59
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So I went and sorted the purple by twilight: quote:1st Twilight: The biggest thing that popped out at me while doing this was the 7th Twilight. George says Nanjo couldn't have been killed inside the guesthouse. Battler says Nanjo didn't leave the guesthouse. Narration says he is dead. One of George or Battler must be lying. This further supports that we're on the right track with two parents + child as the culprits. What we should be looking for now is who must by lying, George or Battler? e: If we take Eva/Hideyoshi/George as the killer, with Hideyoshi starting things off and hiding in Natsuhi's room with the corpses forever, that means Eva must have picked everyone off, leaving George no chance to kill anybody, if we take everything Jessica says as true. Meaning it must have been Battler, Rudolf, and Kyrie e2: To further clarify, in order for the 2nd twilight to work, the killer must remain hidden in the room for the duration, meaning they can't get any kills after that. Meaning not only must they have killed at least 4 people during the first twilight, but also they can't kill any more after the 2nd, so there must be a second culprit hiding among the corpses in the dining hall. This person carries out the majority of the rest of the murders, those that can't be done by the living. The only post-mansion murder that could be done by one of the living, if Jessica isn't lying, is Shannon, meaning it had to be Battler. But let's see if we can break this. Let's look at Maria, for Jessica to be lying, Maria must also by lying. For Maria to be lying, George must also be lying. And we have in red that the seals were in place and never broken, so the 2nd Twilight doesn't change, it must have been one of the 'dead' from the first twilight, and they can't have killed after that. So of the 4 murders after, one each must have been done by Jessica, George, and Maria. Hmmm... But, if we take narration as absolute, even if we try to weasel out of Jessica's exquisite corpse, this one is another nail in her coffin: "She flew out of the guesthouse in a rage, searching for the culprit that she was sure hid somewhere outside" If she was one of the culprits, she wouldn't be angry, and she certainly wouldn't be searching for the culprit. Sorry Ange, your family is murderers. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 19:12
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idonotlikepeas posted:I think none of that contradicts anything? Anybody notice any holes?  "In the first place, no one could kill Doctor Nanjo inside the guesthouse!"
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Oct 27, 2017 19:26
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ProfessorProf posted:
So yeah, Rudolf does a bunch of murders in the mansion. Battler kills Shannon with a white horse. Kyrie slips into the guesthouse with Battler's help, kills Gohda and Kumasawa, then slips back out. Then Battler opens the front door and pushed Nanjo outside directly into Kyrie's knife, then they drag the corpse back inside. Jessica goes storming off and gets turbo-dunked by 18 years of jealousy.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:42
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idonotlikepeas posted:The red truth only says that the culprit killed six people. Not that they killed six people on the first twilight. In fact, it's explicitly said after the second twilight, which makes it more likely that those are included. ...  Dangit, missed that the red truth said "the culprit of the first twilight" and not that six people were killed on the first twilight. Oops. idonotlikepeas posted:During the family conference, Kyrie and Rudolf murdered Eva, Hideyoshi, Rosa, and Genji with their steak knives in an argument over money. Wouldn't it just be Rudolf? If Kyrie kills anyone, then Rudolf gets at most five kills, which would contradict the red truth that the culprit of the first twilight really did kill six people. Having Rudolf kill everyone attending that family conference except Kyrie would fulfill that red truth quite nicely. idonotlikepeas posted:Kyrie then throttled Kumasawa and Gohda to death with a fishing line... Wasn't it said that blood spatter would have gotten on the killer? Throttling someone to death doesn't seem very bloody... (Then again, I could be confusing it for strangulation, which is clean.) ProfessorProf posted:
There's a pretty big hole in your theory. I think what I would say instead, given that we can discount Battler's assertion that Nanjo was killed without leaving the guesthouse in your theory because he's a culprit, is that Kyrie pushed him outside and murdered him, then came back in with his corpse, relocked the guesthouse, and moved the corpse to where the others found it.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:48
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idonotlikepeas posted:The red truth only says that the culprit killed six people. Not that they killed six people on the first twilight. In fact, it's explicitly said after the second twilight, which makes it more likely that those are included. So your version of the scorecard is that they teamed up, but all of the kills were on one person's scorecard?
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Oct 27, 2017 19:50
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*clicks stopwatch* 6 hours, 20 minutes, 0 hints. Peas's theory with ZD's adjustment fits every condition. Well done, thread. The aftermath will go up tomorrow, and I'll put up all of the Hints when I've got a minute.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:51
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MayOrMayNotBeACat posted:Wasn't it said that blood spatter would have gotten on the killer? Throttling someone to death doesn't seem very bloody... That's why I added the bit about her mutilating the bodies afterward. It fits all the facts! Nobody can prove that she didn't kill Kumasawa with a fishing line used to catch something other than mackerel! EDIT: Also, man, how'd I miss that? It's been a long week. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 19:56
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Hold up, pushing Nanjo outside, stabbing him, then pushing his corpse back inside is correct? Huh. While I see how possible that is, I would never have thought about that because that feels like complexity without benefit to the story.
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Oct 27, 2017 20:11
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Howdy thread. Longtime lurker, first time speculator. I stumbled on this thread a while back, and now that we're apparently nearing the end (and and must solve a mystery to progress, rather than for our own enjoyment), I figured I'd jump in the theorizing game. My (long, long, rambling) thoughts are below. For ease of reading, I've broken them down into two stages, reflecting the order I'm working through my attempted solution. I begin with my motivation, before rigorously checking it against the facts. Part One: The Motive - "Without Spite, it Cannot be Seen" Whydunnit? That's my first thought. And not, "why did the culprit(s) commit the murders?", but, "Why is Bern showing us this?". Bern is an rear end in a top hat. I think it's safe to assume that, despite all the nice talk about relating to the good guys as their opponent, this whole thing's yet another carefully calculated dick move. And I think it's important to consider Bern's intentions here. After all, while previous games were presented as a struggle between mystery and fantasy, really understanding what was going on required understanding what Beatrice/Yasu was trying to tell us. Her games were constructed with the aim of guiding Battler to remember/understand her, and the solutions to each game make sense only once we're able to suss out some of what was going on with Yasu herself (e.g. her presenting as both Shannon and Kannon, the other servants' willingness to act as her accomplices, her appearing to Maria as "Beatrice" as an outgrowth of her own escapist tendencies). Whatever the facts of Bern's game, I assume it's designed to be hurtful. Okay, but hurtful how? I'd assume her target this time is Ange. Battler's gameboard was all about helping Ange cope with her loss and remember positive impressions of her family, so I assume Bern's game aims to accomplish the opposite. Whatever Bern is trying to show us, I'm guessing it's something Ange won't like. But we already have a version of events Ange won't like. The (probably) tru(-ish) version of events at the end of chapter 7 presents Ange's parents as heartless murderers. Why not just show Ange that? What could be worse? Well, what if it wasn't just her parents? What if her beloved big brother was a monster too? And what if, instead of just Kyrie dismissing her as a mere anchor to tie Rudolf down, none of them gave a poo poo about her? What if the whole family conference was just a plot to abandon Ange, kill their relatives to steal their inheritance, then fake their deaths and laugh off into the sunset? How would Ange feel about that? Thus, my initial hypothesis posits Rudolf, Kyrie, and Battler as the culprits of a premeditated killing spree, purely because that's the assholish thing to do. I will now check this hypothesis against the presented facts of the case. Part Two: Explaining the Crimes - "A Family Affair" Assuming the above culprits, I now attempt to fit them to each crime. I'm still trying to fit some things together here, so I'd really appreciate if anyone notices gaps in my reasoning. i. First Twilight: Battler, Kyrie, and Rudolf meet with the victims at the crime scene. Battler kills four of them, then leaves the room. Kyrie and Rudolf lock the door behind him, then flop on the floor. When the survivors discover the crime scene, Battler falsely reports his parents as among the dead. The death of each parent was confirmed by their own child, and while no one will mistakenly confirm a death, I don't see anything preventing someone from falsely confirming a death. ii. Second Twilight: Kyrie or Rudolf knocks on Natsuhi's door, enters the room, commits the double murder, then locks the door and hides. The other spouse is meanwhile hiding outside the mansion somewhere (we need them on the outside, because the survivors seal the mansion later). The survivors (and Battler) later discovers the room as attested, then leave and seals the door without thoroughly digging around the room and uncovering the hiding perpetrator (George even says they decided to leave the crime scene as it was). Later on, either Rudolf or Kyrie can come back by to remove the seal from the outside and let their spouse out. This is the part I'm shaky on. We're given that none of the seals are ever broken in the future, but if the seal is removed from the outside, does that count as "breaking" it? As I understand it, a seal is only broken if a door is opened from the inside; my theory fails here, otherwise. iii. Fourth Twilight: This one's simple enough. Battler, Rudolf and/or Kyrie can do the deed. The culprit of the First Twilight really did kill six people, so Battler's possible involvement hinges on whether we need to bump up his kill count at the end (he's got four so far). iv. Fifth and Sixth Twilights: Guest house is locked, so I'm leaving Rudolf and Kyrie outside, but Battler himself says no one inside has an alibi. v. Seventh Twilight: George tells us that no one could kill Doctor Nanjo inside the guesthouse. Solution-- Battler forces Nanjo outside, and either kills him or watches his parents do it, then drags the corpse back in, re-locks the guest house.Battler claims that he has proof that Doctor Nanjo didn't leave the guesthouse-- assume he's lying. vi. Eighth Twilight: Maria tells us The three of us couldn't have killed Jessica, which is fine, since Kyrie and/or Rudolf did it. Retrofitting Battler's kill count, he's got the four on the first twilight for sure. If killing Shannon counts as one person, than Battler personally kills her and Nanjo. If killing Shannon counts as two people, then Battler kills her to bring himself to six, and merely forces Nanjo outside for his parents to kill, then drags the corpse back in. After this, Kyrie and Rudolf presumably reveal themselves, they kill George and Maria, grab a handful of gold, set a bomb to blow up the mansion, and depart to Hawaii while Battler has a hearty evil laugh about his loser sister waiting back home crying over her "dead" family. And that's my theory. So concludes my inaugural contribution (i.e. textdump to this thread). Now I toss it back to you-- What do you all think? Any contradiction I've overlooked? PS - (Thanks to ProfessorProf for the great LP, and thanks to you all for all your cool theorizing so far. It's been a blast to read along with you and ponder other folks' understanding, even if I've been quiet so far). Edit: While typing up my miniature dissertation, it appears the mystery has already been solved. lol and congrats to idonotlikepeas. Simply by the existence of idonolikepeas, this wall of text is superfluous to the thread. What do you think, everyone? King Superman fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 20:12
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Quote is not edit.
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Oct 27, 2017 20:24
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Going to sidetrack a bit and talk about (stage) magic. In Ye Olde Times, when "a witch did it!" was a plausible scientific* explanation of the world, all sorts of people went around performing various acts of wonder and amazement. By the 19th and early 20th centuries, the worldview had become more and more materialistic**, with old school "magic" being slowly debunked by even the magicians such as Harry Houdini (who, ironically, did believe in the afterlife but was burned by so many fake mediums that he made it his mission to expose their lies). Modern performers usually style themselves as "illusionists" or "mentalists", and while some still act as if they are performing true magic, most go into an act with the knowledge that the audience will be looking for the tricks of the trade. When Erika de-mystified how Beatrice made candy appear at the bottom of the cup, my mind immediately jumped to the Penn and Teller version of the Cups and Balls Trick. For several years now, Penn and Teller have made a career out of deliberately breaking the rules of stage magic to show the artistry that goes into making the trick work, usually by performing the trick as is, and then again with all of the obfuscation removed. The message of this story, at least withing the meta-narrative, seems to be building up to the moral "explaining the magic destroys the magic". While this is true in the sense that explaining the tricks of the trade exposes them as narrative sleight of hand, as someone who reads a lot of stories and writes them myself I still gain something out of dissection and analysis, namely: how does the author get me to care about an (ostensibly) fictional world with fictional characters? Sure, most people don't like it when That Guy interrupts storytime to ask seemingly inane questions, but storytelling has always been a collaborative effort between the tale-weaver and the audience (it takes at least two people to create a world, after all), and if it's the audience's job to listen and believe, then it's the tale-weaver's job to spin a good yarn. And for me, at least, it's not disrespectful to ask the question "Is this a good story, for whatever definition of good one cares to use?" because doing so helps me to become a storyteller in my own right. *Defining "science" here as "any heuristic that explains how the world works"; science based in rational deduction and empirical verification is an extremely recent paradigm shift, so to dismiss a position that doesn't fall under those categories as "non-scientific" is, while acceptable in common parlance, not technically correct. **That is, the philosophy which believes that the purely physical realm is the only one that exists, and that the metaphysical is simply a product thereof. The other kind of materialist usually acquire stuff as a means to display wealth and/or power, and so ironically does not fall under this definition. dotchan fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 20:50
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How fitting of a Bern game. I was thinking "what setup would cause the most pain to Ange" and then see if it fit the conditions, but it looks like the full solution has been confirmed.
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Oct 27, 2017 20:53
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... Well, that's that, I guess. But well done, peas and ZD; you beat me to the punch again. (Incompetent, what do you think, yada yada) And welcome to our new seeker, king Superman! Well done on your speculation, because I think you have it right, too- in both the method and the motive of the game, for both pieces... and the narrator. Oh pernicious cackler, oh villain, villain, smiling blue-haired villain- that is exactly what you aim to do here, isn't it? You've seen Battler's efforts and have the same misgivings about it that I have... you know that for all of his good intentions to heal his sister's suffering, he does not understand it, not at all. His piece for Ange is the girl he remembers from 12 years ago, and not the young, sad woman she became. But you have a greater understanding, don't you Berne- how could you not? And you know what to do... Doubt is your weapon, a poison levied against the one, unsullied hope from childhood Ange has preserved... her one sustained bulwark against the forces set on destroying her. You are the cruelest witch, and what is the cruelest thing you can do now? To tear down Battler's story for Ange, to sever Ange's last hope and connection with her brother... using a weapon Battler provided himself.
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Oct 27, 2017 21:00
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dotchan posted:And for me, at least, it's not disrespectful to ask the question "Is this a good (for whatever definition of good) story?" because doing so helps me to become a storyteller in my own right. I feel like there's a specific point of emphasis in the back half of Umineko about the Reader, and how even they shape a work. In this chapter it's synonymous with "narrator", but is it, really?
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Oct 27, 2017 21:20
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Huh, the only reason I thought it might not be Ange's family is that Bern already did that once. C'mon, think of a new one.
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Oct 27, 2017 21:51
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Sindai posted:Huh, the only reason I thought it might not be Ange's family is that Bern already did that once. C'mon, think of a new one. 
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Oct 27, 2017 22:34
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The now-unnecessary hints have been added to Bern's challenge.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:10
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While we're on the subject, it works thematically with what we have as well. Bern's truth from last episode showed Rudolf and Kyrie killing everyone. And the one person Battler kills is Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice/Yasu.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:24
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I'll chew in to the mystery tomorrow when I'm less tired, but I just wanted to pop by to say that I read up on schizoid personality disorder and it really does look like the type of thing Yasu could have, only theirs would be exacerbated (and likely caused in part) by their environment. I don't think it's really useful to argue down to the point of diagnosing definitively a fictional character when a diagnosis is not definitively stated in the text, but it can be useful for interpreting a character, such as the likely interpretation that Maria is undiagnosed autistic. And what exactly is going on with Yasu is a big deal in the story, and reading up on a disorder that fits can be helpful for figuring out that, I think. The symptoms and presentation that stood out to me are that people with schizoid personality disorder tend to: - Be unable or unwilling to express themselves emotionally to other people and form emotional connections with other people - But they also tend to have extremely rich and vivid inner fantasy worlds, where they're able to interact with (fantasy) people without the uncomfortable obligations that come with real relationships - Furthermore there's a presentation of the disorder where the affected person, instead of coming off as cold and aloof, is actually sociable and seems to be making genuine connections with other people - But the reason they can do that is because they are essentially playacting as an extension of their rich inner fantasy, and view themselves as 'playing a role' and thus not impaired from social warmth or expressing feelings Yasu is clearly a very lonely person who desires to form genuine connections with others, but feels unable to do so and thus compensates with an inner fantasy. Furthermore, they playact different personas in order to interact with others due to their extreme aversion to expressing themselves, in such a way that a defense mechanism for feeling unwanted has turned into something strangling them and choking them off from asking for help. While I can't argue one way or the other that Yasu could be diagnosed with SPD with the information shown to the reader, as I'm not an expert and I only just read about this today, I think it's strongly arguable that Yasu has strong schizoid personality traits that have become maladaptive and detrimental to their emotional and physical health.
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Oct 28, 2017 05:22
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ProfessorProf posted:The now-unnecessary hints have been added to Bern's challenge. It's interesting that they reveal the biggest hint earliest (Of the major hints on offer and not just "try harder": Were there any deaths that were confirmed from the narration?. I'll admit I was a bit lax in my responsibilities, believing (from the fact that the purple and red truths were available for perusal from the "choose the culprit" screen) that they were all that was required to make this work. I was also a bit distracted by the purple truth about George that "In the incident regarding Shannon at least, he cannot be the culprit" since it was the only time (outside of the culprit groupings) that the motive played a part in the narrative. It seemed out of character with everything else (though, as the hints reveal, it was pivotal in narrowing the field down at the end). Well done, Bern. A fun mystery.
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Oct 28, 2017 06:51
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Kytrarewn posted:I was also a bit distracted by the purple truth about George that "In the incident regarding Shannon at least, he cannot be the culprit" since it was the only time (outside of the culprit groupings) that the motive played a part in the narrative. It didn't, the narration says he was the only one with an alibi somehow.
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Oct 28, 2017 07:03
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tiistai posted:It didn't, the narration says he was the only one with an alibi somehow. And that somehow is, I think, an artifact of the fact this story had no 'reader.' It seems like that means it's less of a story and more just an outline. The skeleton of a story with none of the meat. So it doesn't have to explain why George couldn't have done it, all that matters is he couldn't.
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Oct 28, 2017 07:15
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ZiegeDame posted:And that somehow is, I think, an artifact of the fact this story had no 'reader.' It seems like that means it's less of a story and more just an outline. The skeleton of a story with none of the meat. So it doesn't have to explain why George couldn't have done it, all that matters is he couldn't. I think it's less that and more Bern just not caring about the details. Having a Reader means you're effectively listening to the story second-hand. The narrator in the story can be unreliable because you're not seeing the actual text (or the "guts") that the Reader is conveying to you, as the interviews in EP7 showed. In this case, however, Bern is letting them read the text on their own. I can't really remember any specific examples off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure there are some very minor hints for example in EPs 1-4 that Beatrice is the Reader there. tiistai fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 28, 2017 08:22
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PetraCore posted:Schizoid Personality Disorder People with SPD have no desire to connect with other people, not just no ability. Schizotypal is probably closer to Yasu, they're definitely more Cluster A than anything else though. Graylien fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 28, 2017 10:17
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ProfessorProf posted:The now-unnecessary hints have been added to Bern's challenge. Good lord, they really do spell out the entire thing by the end, don't they?
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Oct 28, 2017 14:37
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The secondary purpose of the hints is in case you just don't care about this part and want the game to do it for you.
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Oct 28, 2017 14:43
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 BGM: Dead Angle Ange flew out of the guesthouse, sobbing. Is there anyone still alive on this island? When she checked the cousins' room earlier, it had been completely empty. However, she remembered that she hadn't seen Battler, George, or Maria's bodies. What she didn't know was whether this meant they were safe... or whether she was about to be reunited with them as corpses.  She dashed around through the rain. Where was she going? Nowhere in particular. The lost little sister dashed around in circles, searching for her brother. Drenched with rain and all alone... ...Eventually, I thought I heard my brother's voice from beyond a bush. No, it wasn't just his voice. I heard George onii-chan's and Maria onee-chan's voices too. I called out at the top of my lungs, but they didn't answer. But it's okay now. They're right there. Just on the other side of the fence. I could even faintly see them through the fence. When I ran around the fence, I found myself standing in front of a shed or something. It must be a shed to store tools for the rose garden. The three of them were standing in front of the shed.  BGM: None I cried out, but my voice didn't reach them. Even though I yelled so loudly? Something felt very wrong about all this. When people hear a voice, even when they pretend not to have heard it, their bodies tend to show some sign that they've noticed. However, there was no trace of that in the three of them. Even though I was screaming so loud, it truly wasn't reaching their ears. The instant I understood that, my dash towards them slowed and came to a halt. Though we appeared to be in the same world, we were actually in different worlds entirely. It was like a TV. Or was it more like ghosts...? I could see them clearly, but as far as they were concerned, I didn't exist. After all, look. Even if I stand right in front of them, their eyes can't see me. If I try and touch them, will I really be able to? What if my hand just went right through... I was so scared at the thought... that I could do nothing but stand there in shock, even though I was so close to them...   "...No matter how much we lock ourselves in, someone always gets killed. Uu-! It's the work of a witch after all!" "Everyone, calm down...! Let's calm down and think. No one exists on this island except those with a direct relation to the Ushiromiya family." "That doesn't make sense...! After all, we've just seen several murders that'd be impossible for any one of us!" "...Well, that's true... But is it really? Maybe we've just missed something." "Missed something?" BGM: Lie-alaiaa  "But Aniki, that's impossible! Every one of the corpses was checked by someone! There's no way any of them were faking!" "I don't want to think about it, but what if those corpse inspections... were also faked?" "...Uu-...?" "Let's put it this way. There were multiple culprits from the start. Then, one plays dead, and the other lies and confirms that the first culprit died. Then, the culprit who played dead keeps on committing crimes, creating the illusion that some stranger has snuck onto the island...!" "Do you... still suspect someone in the Ushiromiya family of being the culprit?!" "...Doctor Nanjo was killed. Since he was killed, it's probably safe to say that he isn't a culprit. And, we can consider the examinations performed by a doctor like him to be the most reliable."If so, then we can probably assume that the people whose death Nanjo checked were almost certainly dead. Who did Nanjo check? Genji's corpse. Krauss and Natsuhi's corpses. Shannon's corpse. Gohda and Kumasawa's corpses.  "...But didn't the rest of us check the others?" "Yes, but Doctor Nanjo didn't actually inspect them himself." "What are you talking about?! How the hell could our parents have survived after being killed like that?! Anyway, what do you think you're saying, George-aniki?! Wouldn't that mean one of our parents is the culprit?! That's insane!! They were killed right at the beginning, and so many of them...! How can you go calling our parents culprits on top of that?! I won't let anyone, not even you, suspect and slander our parents after they've been killed like that...!!" "...S, sorry..." "...I know my Mama was really dead. So, does that mean George onii-chan's parents or Battler's parents were the culprits?" "Let's stop with that, Maria-chan... I must have lost it a bit back there..." "George onii-chan wouldn't kill Shannon." "That's enough...! None of us would kill our family, right?!!" "So, I don't think George onii-chan would lie and say his parents were dead, not if they were really alive. There's no way George onii-chan would help out in a crime if Shannon was going to be killed."Calmly, as though answering a quiz or a riddle, Maria spoke to George. Then, with a blank look on her face, she turned to Battler and spoke.  "...Battler, you saw your Dad's and Mom's corpses, right?" "Yeah, I saw them!! We all saw them right?! Those pitiful, blood-stained...!!" "Huh?! Where the hell did that come from?!!" "Because that way, it all makes sense. Back in the dining hall, Battler's parents weren't dead. One of them killed Aunt Natsuhi and Uncle Krauss, locked the door from the inside, and waited in that room. The other one took over the murders after that. To break open the closed room of the guesthouse, they needed to have an accomplice inside. That was Battler. That explains everything." "E, enooooooooooooough!!!" "S, stop it, Battler-kun...! You too, Maria-chan...!" "Finally, all the pieces fit together in the Wolves and Sheep puzzle in my head. The culprits are Battler's family. Uu-. Am I right?" "Wh, what are you talking abooooooooout?!!!" BGM: Stupefaction The voice came from behind Ange. She spun around, surprised. There, covered in blood, yet wearing cheery expressions, were Rudolf and Kyrie. "Uncle Rudolf, Aunt Kyrie, I, I'm so glad you're sa-"After saying that much, George realized what the words meant, and his face twisted into an expression of shock and horror. Maria wasn't surprised. However, she showed no joy at having her answer proved correct. And Battler... ...Ange... saw it. That terrible expression... one that she would never forget as long as she lived.  BGM: Patchwork Chimera A hideous demon that she'd never be able to look at again twisted its face in a foul grin, and the truly horrible thing was... That she saw it... on her brother's face... Rudolf and Kyrie lifted up the guns they had been holding behind them. The barrels were pointed at the foreheads of George, who was staggering backwards, and Maria, who was grinning as though she didn't care what happened. There was a flash of lightning and a crack of thunder. Nothing more could be heard. Then, as George and Maria were snapped around by that roar, the strings holding them were snipped. The two dolls fell into puddles with a splash... and stopped moving...  "...D, Dad... Mom..."All of this occurred right before Ange's eyes...  Ange, who stood stunned beside them, wasn't visible to their eyes. They guffawed, overcome with laughter. Then, right in front of Ange, they started joking and complimenting each other on their kills so far. The three hideous faces... the faces of her family... made Ange want to cry and vomit at the same time, and she felt as though she would suffocate. Ange dashed away, covering her mouth. She wanted to escape the disgusting laughter coming from her beloved family as soon as possible. Then, she slipped and fell face-down in a puddle of mud. Ange didn't try to get up. In fact, she instead chose to cover her ears to block out the disgusting laughter that she could still hear. As she did, from the shadows of the fences and bushes in this inky-black rose garden... several dark things slipped into sight. "...?!?!"Ange looked around herself in surprise... to see that eerie black shapes had appeared from all over the garden... and were slowly surrounding her.  Their outfits were all different. Some wore suits, while others were dressed casually. However, all of them were covered with darkness, and all of them had goat heads. Ange, bewildered, accidentally let her hands fall from her ears. By now, she couldn't hear that disgusting laughter. However, in their place, she could hear the words spoken by the goats.   "Battler is the culprit... Battler is the culprit..." "...Battler culprit theory. Battler's family culprit theory..."As the goats continued to mumble in eerie voices, they surrounded Ange and began to draw nearer. They all pressed around her, each of them speaking of Ange's family as the culprits... At first, everyone had joined in on the Eva culprit theory. The sole survivor from Rokkenjima had gotten almost all of the wealth to herself, so the theory was only natural. Why was Ushiromiya Eva the only one who escaped to Kuwadorian? And why did she refuse so stubbornly to talk about what happened that day? It was decided that the Eva culprit theory explained all of this.  This was... the 'Rudolf's family culprit theory'. If it was normal for everyone to come to the family conferences, why was Ange the only one who didn't come this time? Did Rudolf's family have some reason for not bringing the young Ange with them? They did take Battler, but he wasn't Kyrie's son. Then, when it was revealed in some magazines that Kyrie's family had close ties to a massive gangster organization, all eyes suddenly gathered on Kyrie herself. Then, the truth was also laid bare about how Rudolf had made a killing out of fraudulent business practices, and almost immediately, the couple became thought of as the most suspicious people on the island. Hideyoshi and Eva's company might have been rough, but at least it had operated within the law. However, the more Rudolf's company was investigated, the more dirt was dug up. Furthermore, trouble surrounding some party tickets from the time Rudolf and Kyrie were students was also testified to, and it was clear that they were far more suspicious than Eva's family. And so, in a flash, the 'Rudolf's family culprit theory' expelled the other conspiracy theories, including the Eva culprit theory, and reigned as the greatest of them all. ...It wasn't really because it was more plausible than the Eva culprit theory. They had just gotten bored of the old theory and wanted a new sensation... The goats seemed to bend and undulate. The sky rapidly turned white, becoming a ceiling lit by fluorescent lamps. The goats had changed completely, becoming the shapes of girls... wearing goat masks. All of the girls were wearing the same clothes. It was a uniform. The uniform of Saint Lucia Academy.   "Oh, I heard that! Yeah, I knew there was something suspicious about them leaving their kid behind!" "Didn't Ushiromiya Eva say herself that she was poisoned to death?! Isn't it obvious who was behind that?!" "Must be nice for her. She gets her whole family's riches all to herself, right?" "I always knew the 'Rudolf's family culprit theory' was right!" "Hey, don't you think there's something strange about Ushiromiya-san?" "*whisper*whisper*whisper*." "*giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle*." "Rudolf and Kyrie are culprits." "Isn't Battler a culprit too?" "Rudolf's family culprit theory!" "They tried to get the family wealth all to themselves, but Eva killed them back and they failed-" "But in the end, Ushiromiya Ange gets everything anyway, doesn't she?" "Rudolf and Kyrie are the culprits, of course!" "Rudolf's family culprit theory!" "Rudolf and Kyrie and Battler are the culprits!" "Rudolf and Kyrie and Battler are the culprits!!" "They're saying your family were the culprits, Ushiromiya-san!" "What do you think of that? Hey, what do you think?!" "But in the end, you get all the family wealth to yourself, don't you?!" "Even at the end, Ushiromiya Eva never told you anything, right?!" "I always knew there was something wrong with that girl!" "This also explains why Eva hated you so much!" "Hey, hey, say something, tell us what you think!" "She really is a creepy kid, isn't she?" "At least say something about what you think of this theory, creep!!" BGM: Where In a flash, the illusion of girl students with goat heads that surrounded me shattered. I was curled up in a puddle in the rainy rose garden, surrounded by goats. But then, those goats were also sliced in half, and the upper halves slid to the side. It was like seeing a master swordsman slicing through a stick of bamboo.  The voice came from... that black cat. The black cat with the bell that had guided me here. Incredible that it can talk... But that doesn't matter now. I dashed after it. The goats shrank back. A hole opened up in the encirclement. The black cat dashed through it. As I hurried through it, the goats began to chase after me. Countless heavy footsteps thundered behind us.  "Wh, where are we running to, Mr. Cat...?!"The cat ignored my stupid question. Where are we running to? It's obvious. As far away as we can make it. However, there was an unbelievable number of goats. It wasn't just the group chasing us. There were probably goats hiding throughout the rose garden, and everywhere we went, a group of them would appear and block our path. Each time we bumped into them, we ran down a different path in this maze of a rose garden. So, I didn't even know which direction we were running in anymore. It couldn't be... We aren't running around in circles inside a massive crowd of goats, are we...? When we ran into the arbor once more, I learned that my fears were justified. The four paths that led from the arbor were all blocked by a crowd of goats. Of course, the path we had come down was also blocked by our pursuers. There was nowhere to go to, nowhere to return to. We were finally... trapped...   "..."The black cat glared at the goats that surrounded us, standing on guard. It's... all over for us... At that moment, I found myself floating in the air. A massive arm, large enough to crush my entire head, had grabbed my collar from behind. Before I could even think to cry out, I saw, right in front of my face, a pair of strangely glowing red eyes, and a massive mouth with jagged teeth and a foul breath. The mouth... opened wide... and, as though it was a separate creature, a bizarre tongue stuck itself out. Then, it spat words at me.  "Then, one of the parents carried out the murders until the second twilight and hid under the bed in Natsuhi's room. Battler killed Shannon, and then assisted in the murders in the guesthouse." "...The other parent carried out the guesthouse murders... This is... the truth..."Then, that gaping, smelly mouth... slowly began to close over Ange's head...  BGM: The Executioner A blue flash... sliced off the top of the mouth that was trying to eat Ange's head, sending it flying. I fell into a puddle, along with the goat that was still grasping my collar, though there was nothing left of it above its chin. Without any hesitation, the goats stretched out their thick arms, as though this was their chance to snatch this prey for themselves... and they rushed towards me. All of them spoke in unison. "Everything except the Rudolf's family culprit theory is impossibllle... Absolutely impossibllle...!!" A red flash and a blue line became blades of wind that passed over my head, doubly slicing the arms of a goat that tried to pick me up. I think the next goats dashed, not towards me, but towards the black cat that was protecting me from behind. As I sat on my butt, staring up at the rainy night's sky, the massive goats were in the air right above me, fighting the black cat... or someone. "George's family culprit theory is impossiiible! George can't kill Shannnnnnon!! So he can't be a culprit, and he can't faaaake when checking corpses!!!"  The deep-red curves cut by the swings bit into the goat. Its massive body was knocked into the air... became a bunch of about seven logs of flesh, and was thrown into the rose bushes. This time, the terrible force of the attack shocked the goats. They faltered, shook, stepped back. ...Finally, I understood. That red slice. It had come from a weapon that could draw red slashes... no, it also drew blue slashes just a second ago. A massive scythe that could speak both types of truth, red and blue, at will. I looked up at the sky, then let my head hang down backwards. There was no black cat there. It was a girl... holding a large scythe... 
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Oct 28, 2017 14:44
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This post is to stop the forums from hiding the update for arcane reasons. Will it work? e: It worked!
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Oct 28, 2017 14:51
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ProfessorProf posted:
So now erikas getting into the fight? interesting. you know its funny. That was part of Bernkastals plan since the thing that Ange fears most is that her own family was behind the deaths on the island. Showing "proof" or plausible scenarios is basically confirming Anges worst fears so she won't be able to think about the scenario rationally. She may point out contridictions but she will take the scenario at face value since it just confirms her own thoughts. Of course now Erika is here and probably 'prove' that her theory is correct and live up to her moniker of "the witch of truth". I wonder what bern will do now.....
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Oct 28, 2017 15:55
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Oh, Berne. First you piss Erika off royally, then you bring her back just in time for a game that's suited exactly to her tastes and talents (a purely mechanical puzzle with no motive or 'heart'). Way to go. 
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Oct 28, 2017 16:03
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... Well, that's unexpected. 
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Oct 28, 2017 16:06
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...well, for once I'm glad to see Erika show up.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:14
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Let it not be said that Erika does not learn. After her loss last time, she's learned what it means to have multiple possible truths. (Seriously, if you don't remember go back and re-read the the end of Episode 6, you can see the exact moment she learned the trick that she's using right now.)
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Oct 28, 2017 17:01
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"It's impossible for George to murder an adult. However, he could murder a child." Why do I have a bad feeling about where this is going?
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Oct 28, 2017 17:04
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Confused Llama posted:Oh, Berne. First you piss Erika off royally, then you bring her back just in time for a game that's suited exactly to her tastes and talents (a purely mechanical puzzle with no motive or 'heart'). Way to go. I feel like this is why Battler requested her return. He's incompetent, but he definitely got his sly moments.
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Oct 28, 2017 17:06
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