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To be fair lowtax had over his absence been completely unaware of loosechange.jpg and when he found out he banned him instantly Same as aatrek being outed
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Oct 27, 2017 03:50
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Lowtax was hardly the only person empowered to demod and ban a dude.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:52
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Yeah but current RPG.net mods have actually personally inconvenienced some of the people in this thread so of course they’re the real monsters. I didn't go that far, and I don't think anyone else did. We're just venting to not think about horrible things, I'd guess. Or something like that.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:58
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Bedlamdan posted:Naw dude, I'm pretty sure or at least suspected those tendencies in Shmorky for a while. Not to mention that people have gotten banned for way less than being a goddamned diaperfur over here. Even if I did accept that only his most recent actions were a factor in his banning, it's not like Shmorky is the only example here. It took forever to get rid of Loosechanj even though Loosechanj.jpg was known and shared for years, not to mention guys like the Ducktales fanficcer mod who admitted to sniffing women's hair in the subway, and had to step down voluntarily. Shmorky was banned years before being outed as a pedophile abuser. Lowtax upgraded it to a permaban after it came out.
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Oct 27, 2017 04:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:Shmorky was banned years before being outed as a pedophile abuser. Lowtax upgraded it to a permaban after it came out. Oh, then that's my bad. I only heard Shmorky was banned from the Let's Play drama associated with it so I'm probably confused about what happened when.
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Oct 27, 2017 05:06
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Bedlamdan posted:Oh, then that's my bad. It's cool. I only remember it because it came up when all that poo poo happened, and people didn't believe lowtax for a while because he did the ban through the admin panel, which doesn't show up in the leper's colony. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 05:43
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Hot Take: RPGnet moderation is good for the kind of community they are wanting to build, which is different than this community, and it is good that it exists so that people that cannot thrive here still have a place to talk about the elfgames in a way that suits them. It's also good because getting red-texted for something small and dumb makes you feel like a rebel even if the infraction was like, "Please stop posting pictures of Kopru in every thread." See: Everyone who ever went to RPGSite with "I was EXILED by the FASCIST MODS" when their infraction was an admonishment not to sign their posts.
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Oct 27, 2017 07:04
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Hot Take: RPGnet moderation is good for the kind of community they are wanting to build, which is different than this community, and it is good that it exists so that people that cannot thrive here still have a place to talk about the elfgames in a way that suits them. Mmmmm, no, wrong. The One True Good Moderation Policy is here, where it's questionable if you will even face sanction for calling someone a "human being" or "retard." That kind of overt aggression is much more preferable than passagg posters, which definitely don't also exist here.
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Oct 27, 2017 07:50
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Maybe the answer is nowhere in the middle.
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Oct 27, 2017 07:54
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Maybe the answer is nowhere in the middle. There is no ethical shitposting under market fragmentation.
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Oct 27, 2017 07:59
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No you're right, the good kind of community is where rapists roam free because mods ~*can't take the pressure*~ of making that kind of decision.
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Oct 27, 2017 08:37
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Ignoring that and dropping the widest, biggest load of poo poo you can find instead?
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Oct 27, 2017 08:40
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ravenkult posted:No you're right, the good kind of community is where rapists roam free because mods ~*can't take the pressure*~ of making that kind of decision. Also wrong. Nothing is ever good.
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Oct 27, 2017 09:06
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That Old Tree posted:There is no ethical shitposting under market fragmentation. 
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Oct 27, 2017 12:15
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Internet Mods are petty scum of the Earth no matter where they are and should be repeatedly beaten by other posters IRL lest they forget their place.
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Oct 27, 2017 13:56
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Hot Take: RPGnet moderation is good for the kind of community they are wanting to build, which is different than this community, and it is good that it exists so that people that cannot thrive here still have a place to talk about the elfgames in a way that suits them. Nah encouraging pass agg nonsense and line toeing instead of moderating based on context is garbage and makes for a garbage community If your goal was to make a garbage community congrats but also it's still garbage
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Oct 27, 2017 15:28
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:To be fair lowtax had over his absence been completely unaware of loosechange.jpg and when he found out he banned him instantly Aatrek was a bit more cut-and-dry- it wasn't just a question of "we should believe victims", he'd been like convicted and confessed (sort of), he was like 120% guilty.
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Oct 27, 2017 18:35
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I think a lot of people have lost a healthy skepticism of things on the internet. I've seen lines starting with, "In a post-Weinstein world..." then going on to accuse some rando of perving on some other rando. No. Weinstein was accused by actual people, in person, to journalists of national publications. Whereas what I'm seeing often is an effectively anonymous forum or twitter account tossing out an accusation at a person, where not only is there no proof the event occurred, there's no proof the person exists. I could run over to GBS and post, "I'm feeling very unsafe in SA now, I've kept this story to myself for years, but my dog is transgender and a drunken Lowtax broke into my house in 1997, misgendered my dog, then sexually harassed her before telling me, 'If you post about this, I'll loving kill you.' He then stabbed me in the thigh with a sharp pre-recall 1980s lawn dart and ran nakedly into the night." Then go out on twitter, make another account, #metoo, and @ a link of the post to some youtubers and bloggers. Any random shitposter can do that, there's nothing stopping anyone from fabricating a claim of horrible misconduct in the space of five minutes. There's been a lot of, "Oh, we have to believe the victims", and I agree that in the real world people shouldn't be making GBS threads on people who raise claims of mistreatment before investigations have occurred to verify or debunk the claims. However when it comes to forums, I think it's reasonable to demand a baseline of evidence to ensure at the very least that there is a victim, and that the whole thing isn't bullshit before going around with the torches and pitchforks. Otherwise it's just too easy to troll someone with a little spare time.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:40
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 Hoo boy did you just step into a minefield of your own creation. (I'll let others who are far more qualified than me speak further on the subject.)
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Oct 27, 2017 23:04
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Okay but see much like GamerGate that "trust but verify" thing was already mostly happening, and "well, actually"ing is usually nothing more than muddying the waters, making you a (hopefully accidental) fellow traveler to some real pieces of poo poo. The person who outed Matt as a rapist didn't just drive-by shitpost. The Bill Webb and other PaizoCon stuff wasn't solely the domain of third-hand gossip. Most false accusations along these lines fall apart pretty quickly, if they're not transparently trolling from the start. So why are you bringing up this worry, now?
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Oct 27, 2017 23:07
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Valatar posted:There's been a lot of, "Oh, we have to believe the victims", and I agree that in the real world people shouldn't be making GBS threads on people who raise claims of mistreatment before investigations have occurred to verify or debunk the claims. However when it comes to forums, I think it's reasonable to demand a baseline of evidence to ensure at the very least that there is a victim, and that the whole thing isn't bullshit before going around with the torches and pitchforks. Otherwise it's just too easy to troll someone with a little spare time. If you're still talking about BHM. When confronted with the accusation he voluntarily stepped down. And the accuser was in touch with the mods in private. There's very little doubt that something happened, we're just in the dark on degree.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:07
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"Don't believe accusations of harassment" is a pretty hot take and definitely not standard operating procedure for our entire lovely culture.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:44
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Valatar posted:Long-winded bullshit There, I cut it down for you.
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Oct 28, 2017 00:03
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I would encourage Valatar to stay away from hypotheticals and just take it as it comes, particularly because this isn't a frequent enough thing to worry about (thank goodness).
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Oct 28, 2017 00:08
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Mormon Star Wars posted:It's also good because getting red-texted for something small and dumb makes you feel like a rebel even if the infraction was like, "Please stop posting pictures of Kopru in every thread." See: Everyone who ever went to RPGSite with "I was EXILED by the FASCIST MODS" when their infraction was an admonishment not to sign their posts. Having been reading their forums again recently, I wish this was something that people would get smacked on the nose for instead of almost the norm.
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Oct 28, 2017 00:12
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Kurieg posted:If you're still talking about BHM. When confronted with the accusation he voluntarily stepped down. And the accuser was in touch with the mods in private. There's very little doubt that something happened, we're just in the dark on degree. Yeah, I certainly don't mean to say he's not guilty- I think the delay in banning him was down to trying to verify.
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Oct 28, 2017 00:17
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Filled my concern troll Bingo card, who do I turn it in to for the prize?
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Oct 28, 2017 01:13
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Maxwell Lord posted:Yeah, I certainly don't mean to say he's not guilty- I think the delay in banning him was down to trying to verify. As things go, it would have probably been better to snap-ban him then unban him if something came up.
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Oct 28, 2017 01:40
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RPZip posted:Having been reading their forums again recently, I wish this was something that people would get smacked on the nose for instead of almost the norm. Wow I didn’t know you were racist against kopru. They just want to be left alone!
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Oct 28, 2017 01:51
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a Kopru charmed me and made me kill my dog
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Oct 28, 2017 03:27
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That Old Tree posted:Okay but see much like GamerGate that "trust but verify" thing was already mostly happening, and "well, actually"ing is usually nothing more than muddying the waters, making you a (hopefully accidental) fellow traveler to some real pieces of poo poo. The person who outed Matt as a rapist didn't just drive-by shitpost. The Bill Webb and other PaizoCon stuff wasn't solely the domain of third-hand gossip. Most false accusations along these lines fall apart pretty quickly, if they're not transparently trolling from the start. So why are you bringing up this worry, now? Probably because they weren't being genuine (Lowtax raped my transgender dog? The gently caress?), because they haven't been following it, or because of the lack of detaiils for the very understandable desire to not suddenly expose more about the accuser beyond what is already known. Honestly I lean towards #1, but maybe they just thought they were being witty.
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Oct 28, 2017 03:36
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Yeah, the time to worry about whether a claim may be false is when the accused actually denies it. When the accused just steps down and goes silent or admits it, there is no need for that poo poo at all. In some hypothetical where the accusation is made anonymously and with no evidence and where the accused says that it is categorically untrue, then you might legitimately ask about credibility... But unless I am much mistaken, this has never once happened in the RPG community. You are getting poo poo from people because you are worrying about something that hasn't happened instead of worrying about the thing that keeps loving happening over and over: men assaulting and harassing women. Edit: to be clear, I am addressing valatar.
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Oct 28, 2017 05:30
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That Old Tree posted:Also wrong. Nothing is ever good. Valatar posted:I think a lot of people have lost a healthy skepticism of things on the internet. I've seen lines starting with, "In a post-Weinstein world..." then going on to accuse some rando of perving on some other rando. No. Weinstein was accused by actual people, in person, to journalists of national publications. Whereas what I'm seeing often is an effectively anonymous forum or twitter account tossing out an accusation at a person, where not only is there no proof the event occurred, there's no proof the person exists. 
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Oct 28, 2017 09:40
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Valatar posted:I think a lot of people have lost a healthy skepticism of things on the internet. I've seen lines starting with, "In a post-Weinstein world..." then going on to accuse some rando of perving on some other rando. No. Weinstein was accused by actual people, in person, to journalists of national publications. Whereas what I'm seeing often is an effectively anonymous forum or twitter account tossing out an accusation at a person, where not only is there no proof the event occurred, there's no proof the person exists. we have people who are supposed to investigate claims of abuse, we don't call them forum mods.
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Oct 28, 2017 11:37
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I honestly believe that soon there will be, if there weren't not, trolls and other kind of psychopaths springing out anonymous accusations of abuse against ideological or personal enemies so I think there SHOULD be some scrutiny before judging someone as an abuser or not.
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Oct 28, 2017 15:43
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The problem is that there's very little daylight between scrutiny of an accuser and a default accusation that they're lying. And its already an uphill credibility struggle for the accuser, especially in a tribal culture like nerd games. Its inherently easier to believe that a low status unknown is lying than accept that a high status individual moonlights as a despicable creep. We saw this same thing in PSU football scandal.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:16
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It's not really a situation where any of the options are great, especially since the reasoning behind "believe women" starts to weaken once people actually start doing it.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:17
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The people who you- most likely- fear are going to use false accusations as a weapon in the unknowable future, are also the people who are against rape accusations being used against powerful people to begin with; and therefore they are unlikely to do so. Concern-trolling about this subject, at this time, in response to what appears to be a serious accusation of an adult raping a 16 year old... that is, in fact, kinda lovely.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:29
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Gerund posted:The people who you- most likely- fear are going to use false accusations as a weapon in the unknowable future, are also the people who are against rape accusations being used against powerful people to begin with; and therefore they are unlikely to do so. There's indeed people who would love to use abuse as a cudgel dude https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/921840239114461184
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Oct 28, 2017 17:03
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Maxwell Lord posted:Yeah, I certainly don't mean to say he's not guilty- I think the delay in banning him was down to trying to verify. Does verification require a real person to appear in front of an RPGnet mod, or is it mere internet conversation?
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Oct 28, 2017 17:27
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