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Bolow posted:I've been leveling up my Rogue and Pugilist to take advantage of the command mission leveling, and I have just one question. One who realizes it's not nearly that bad unless you get one of those tanks that keeps moving around.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:23
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All MCH needs to be cool and good is one or more of the following. 1. Make Wildfire generate 5 heat on activation regardless of ammo to avoid the dreaded OH CRAP I HIT RELOAD BEFORE OVERHEATING thing. 2. Extend the duration of Wildfire OR Overheat by a couple of seconds, possibly with a corresponding reduction to damage. As it stands, I like the class but I never actually go "hey I should play MCH." It's hard-pressed to match the DPS I can do on SMN (granted I have a lot more experience on SMN) and can't really match BRD or RDM for utility.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:26
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remember that MCH's problem isn't damage - if you look at people running meta comps, the MCH is usually one of the top 2 players; in addition they have hypercharge to boost raidwide dps. that adds up to a lot (as long as you have a drg). the problem is the perceived boringness of the rotation. if yoship wants to fix the class, then it's a playstyle question, not a buff/nerf question. for this reason I doubt we'll see many changes.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:34
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ImpAtom posted:Red mage is genuinely very very simple. Yeah, that's what I've been doing and the results have been really good. Played RDM at 70 for a long while now and have stuck with that, but I saw some suggestions that the opener should be Vercure (for instant cast before pull) -> Acceleration -> Verthunder/aero -> Swiftcast -> Verthunder / Stone -> Fleche -> Corps-A-Corps -> Contre Sixte - > Displacement And from there you build up until both manas are at 40, then you immediately do a manafication to unleash your melee combo. I guess it's a good nuke opener?
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Oct 30, 2017 00:38
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Bolow posted:I've been leveling up my Rogue and Pugilist to take advantage of the command mission leveling, and I have just one question. The secret to MNK is that you only move once every three hits at 50+, just like every other positional heavy classes. You start on the side for Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes, then move to the back for Demolish -> Bootshine -> True Strike, then move back to the side for Snap Punch -> Dragon Kick and repeat. When you are leveling, keep in mind that you don't start in Opo-opo form, so it doesn't matter what your initial positional is for Bootshine, since you won't get any bonus from it. If that's too much movement for you, keep in mind that you don't need to move to hit mobs at right angles. You can hop back and forth across the edge of the back/flank marker on the targeting circle, which is just a little bit of movement.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:43
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Thanks for the replies everyone.  I've yet to wipe solely because of mouseover healing (as far as I know), but it's good to hear. Might still give non-mouseover healing a go just for the sake of experimenting.It sounds like Divine Benison is one of those things in which it's nice to have/use if you happen to have the Lilies for it, but if you don't, don't stress out about it too much.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:48
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Stalins Moustache posted:Yeah, that's what I've been doing and the results have been really good. Played RDM at 70 for a long while now and have stuck with that, but I saw some suggestions that the opener should be This opener makes no sense, it has you using 4 ogcds in a row and also has you spend swiftcast on a short cast... i think...??
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Oct 30, 2017 00:51
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Tenik posted:The secret to MNK is that you only move once every three hits at 50+, just like every other positional heavy classes. You start on the side for Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes, then move to the back for Demolish -> Bootshine -> True Strike, then move back to the side for Snap Punch -> Dragon Kick and repeat. When you are leveling, keep in mind that you don't start in Opo-opo form, so it doesn't matter what your initial positional is for Bootshine, since you won't get any bonus from it. If that's too much movement for you, keep in mind that you don't need to move to hit mobs at right angles. You can hop back and forth across the edge of the back/flank marker on the targeting circle, which is just a little bit of movement. I guess my biggest issue is outside of instanced stuff, positionals in general suck rear end. There should be some kind of guild action or some poo poo for a permanent true north thing while in uninstanced areas.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:27
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That makes perfect sense, since positionals are impossible when you are solo. It might look like you can hit an enemy on their side, but that's just because of your ping. Enemies in this game have perfect one to one tracking, so no matter what it looks like on your screen, whenever you use a skill on a mob that has agro on you, you are hitting their front. Just don't worry about it unless you have a tank.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:32
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You can technically get positionals early on when leveling by doing them when they use a AOE. Or you could use your 40 second cooldown stun role ability as a HOT DPS COOLDOWN
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Oct 30, 2017 01:43
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I wouldn't be surprised if positionals were on the chopping block at some point in the future.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:50
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The good news is that my mount collection has grown. The bad news is that now I have to do Susano/Lakshmi/Shinryu EX. 
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Oct 30, 2017 02:00
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I should finish the birds up. I'm half way there already. The PF is just...not often very fun.ImpAtom posted:I don't know about Monk but Ninja is so loving fun. I honestly can't enjoy any of the other melee DPs classes because it feels like I'm moving through molasses playing them in comparison. Plus Mudra has some of the most satisfying sound in the game. Very true. I think GL is the reason why I had a time with PUG for a while there before I changed my mind and leveled DRK. On the upside, whenever I spend a few dungeons not playing my NIN, I feel like The Flash as soon as I get back. Huton is amazing.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:02
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OneDeadman posted:You can technically get positionals early on when leveling by doing them when they use a AOE. Yeah I use a mix of Leg Sweep and True North to land Trick Attack on Ninja. Most (all?) Other positionals are just higher potency so it's not as noticeable.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:04
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SonicRulez posted:I should finish the birds up. I'm half way there already. The PF is just...not often very fun. Ravana, Bismarck, and Thordan are pretty reliable to do with randoms on PF, I think. The other four, though, you'll probably need a static that can do them with you. If you're on an Aether server, I know someone that does consistent Sophia parties and will likely be branching out to the other HW EXs as well.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:14
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Velthice posted:(...) redmage and machinist almost consistently bringing up the rear. MCH is definitely the least played job by far though and will probably continue to be as long as wildfire exists in its current incarnation.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:34
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wildfire killed my parents and kicked my dog
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Oct 30, 2017 02:40
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Slenderpals East is looking for a full time Scholar or Astrologian! We raid Mon/Thu 8:30-11 EST, and are currently working on O4S, Ex-Death. Come be a loving casual midcore with us. PM Fiaryn in game, or in Discord, if you're interested in entering the hallowed halls of void goatse.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:42
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Asimo posted:What? Last I checked RDM was being played pretty heavily, it was just mediocre/mid-tier in DPS. It is both popular and strong, it just has a very simple rotation.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:50
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Red Mage is extremely my poo poo, and I like to think I'm halfway decent at it. I've definitely seen some dire Red Mages in DF, like the one I got in Skalla today who never pressed the following buttons: Scatter, Fleche, Contre-Sixte, Embolden. Like, I can understand forgetting Embolden sometimes, but why would you never press one of the best buttons in the game as often as possible? May I also say, Skalla is a fun dungeon. The final boss is a really good fight.
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Oct 30, 2017 03:32
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I mean on the one hand MCH relies more on their 15 second steroid window than a lot of other classes. On the other, I can look pretty good while doing it.  It's Halloween everyone, who's got spooky or referential glams? I got like, 3.  Though I know, like, one person who recognizes this one. 
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Oct 30, 2017 03:52
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Leofish posted:Fleche, Contre-Sixte But Fleche is so good and Contre-Sixte, while not as good, is still pretty good even on single targets. Also, they look pretty flashy and that's reason enough to use them whenever they come up.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:11
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Sarrisan posted:remember that MCH's problem isn't damage - if you look at people running meta comps, the MCH is usually one of the top 2 players; in addition they have hypercharge to boost raidwide dps. that adds up to a lot (as long as you have a drg). the problem is the perceived boringness of the rotation. if yoship wants to fix the class, then it's a playstyle question, not a buff/nerf question. for this reason I doubt we'll see many changes. Since when was Hypercharge a raid buff? All I'm seeing is a damage buff for my turret.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:11
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Ibblebibble posted:Since when was Hypercharge a raid buff? All I'm seeing is a damage buff for my turret. Tooltips are your friend! e: wow it's NOT in the tooltip, but instead in the tooltip for the turret? that seems nonsensical and arbitrary, but so does mch. I suppose it made more sense there in HW when the different turrets applied different vulnerabilities? Anyway given drg in 4.1 there's proof they're not averse to playstyle changes without affecting DPS at all so Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 05:18
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it applies a Vuln Up to the boss for 10 seconds. this is not in the tooltip because gently caress you thats why.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:18
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Ibblebibble posted:Since when was Hypercharge a raid buff? All I'm seeing is a damage buff for my turret. Hypercharge Effect: Increases target's damage taken by 6% Duration: 10s That’s from all sources.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:18
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Bolow posted:I've been leveling up my Rogue and Pugilist to take advantage of the command mission leveling, and I have just one question. Actually Monk is cool and good and since you have no castbars or procs to pay attention to about you just kind of learn to naturally move slightly left or right of the target's back corner depending on what your next attack is. You do learn to hate tanks who can't goddamn stand still, though. ImpAtom posted:I don't know about Monk but Ninja is so loving fun. I honestly can't enjoy any of the other melee DPs classes because it feels like I'm moving through molasses playing them in comparison. Plus Mudra has some of the most satisfying sound in the game. Monks pretty much go just as fast as ninjas and don't get hosed as hard if the boss spins around unexpectedly for one GCD (because, when you are a ninja, this is *always* when you are pressing Trick Attack). I've come to be used to samurai speed but sometimes I miss buzzsaw gameplay, so I'm finally gearing up my ninja again.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:30
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Ninja was fun but then they added TCJ and now it is less fun.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:48
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Ravana, Bismarck, and Thordan are pretty reliable to do with randoms on PF, I think. The other four, though, you'll probably need a static that can do them with you. or if you're on Primal, there's a goon primal farm static that currently has an opening for a healer or dps. lately we've been doing birds and Shinryu because the dog drop rate is terrible and so are Shinryu pf groups. https://catgirl.bargains/topic/199-some-jerks-who-bullied-zurvan-general-trials-static/
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Oct 30, 2017 06:04
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I think I did this right...
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Oct 30, 2017 06:12
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Griz posted:the dog drop rate is terrible and so are Shinryu pf groups. I was afraid you'd say that.
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Oct 30, 2017 06:22
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Thundarr posted:Actually Monk is cool and good and since you have no castbars or procs to pay attention to about you just kind of learn to naturally move slightly left or right of the target's back corner depending on what your next attack is. You do learn to hate tanks who can't goddamn stand still, though. On the one hand, I always feel a little bad for monks on the team when I pull big and it's a bunch of monsters that puke up AOEs, which requires me to dance around them and thus spin all the enemies. On the other hand, if there's enough that I can't hold still for more than three seconds and the monk isn't using the position-agnostic Rockbreaker AOE attack, that's on them.
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Oct 30, 2017 06:25
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MechaX posted:I am finally getting around to leveling MCH to Hyperactive posted:Yeah I just hit 64 on MCH yesterday and it's like someone finally flipped the fun switch. I'm not super clear on overheating either so my strategy has been to avoid doing it. I also forget about Wildfire more often than not. Still parsing ahead of everyone I DR with soooo whatever? You want to always overheat. The problem is that while leveling, you don't have a skill to use because not ready to overheat right this moment. The other problem is that you don't have a thing to use that will put you over the top in terms of heat that ignores ammo, which you preferably would like to have preloaded, so that you can pop all your cooldowns outside of Wildfire, so that they don't take up valuable oGCDs inside of it. At 70, it's gonna look like something like this: Gauss Barrel on Hot Shot Full Reload, Rapid Fire, Reassemble Flamethrower until you Overheat. Immediately cancel into Wildfire, Cooldown spam while weaving in Gauss Round, Ricochet, and Quick Reload. Crash, and a ten second wait. Gauss Barrel on Barrel Stabilizer Hot Shot Bounce around between 50 and 99 heat by using Reload, Quick Reload and Cooldown, until your Ricochet, Rapid Fire, Reassemble, Wildfire, and Flamethrower all finish cooling down. Repeat. The problem is that until you hit 70, you can't see how this all lines up. You have to do janky poo poo like holding off Reload until you get INTO Overheat, because ammo will keep you from overheating. And because you have nothing that will put you over into Overheat that will not also consume Rapid Fire and Reassemble, you have to hold off using those until you get into Overheat as well. So for best performance, you're doing, Overheat with like, I dunno, Hot Shot or something, pop ALL OF THE CDs, Cooldown spam while also using Gauss Round and Ricochet, and then work your way back up to 95 heat the long and hard way while the rest of your poo poo finishes coming off cooldown long before then. TL;DR: MCH makes _more_ sense at level 70, but may god have mercy on your soul, you have to slog through forty levels of it *not* clicking until then. Sarrisan posted:it applies a Vuln Up to the boss for 10 seconds. Correction: It applies a 10 second Vulnerability Up to the boss, and refreshes it EVERY TURRET AUTO-ATTACK FOR THE TWENTY SECONDS OF HYPERCHARGE'S DURATION. In practical terms: About 26 to 29 seconds of Vulnerability. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 06:51
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hmmm that's not how you do wildfire at all you want 2 clean shots and 2 cooldowns
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Oct 30, 2017 07:05
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Countblanc posted:This opener makes no sense, it has you using 4 ogcds in a row and also has you spend swiftcast on a short cast... i think...?? You don't get Dualcast from Swiftcasted spells either so you're using Swiftcast on a fast cast and not getting Dualcast either. There's little reason to have Swiftcast slotted on RDM, tbh. e: mistake Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 07:08
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Like for real???? seriously?? spamming cooldown????? I'm still so confused why you think that's an okay thing to tell people
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Oct 30, 2017 07:15
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Don't worry you can just hit hard slash over and over
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Oct 30, 2017 07:20
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Wait, Stormblood gave MCH a spamable action named "Cooldown"? That's hosed up.
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Oct 30, 2017 07:21
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Gruckles posted:Wait, Stormblood gave MCH a spamable action named "Cooldown"? That's hosed up. no, it didn't actually
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Oct 30, 2017 07:21
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Dryzen posted:hmmm that's not how you do wildfire at all That's how you do it once you get your full set of tools and understand MCH. Until then, Cooldown spam during Overheat will get you "nobody will complain in pubs" numbers. Muxik posted:no, it didn't actually Yes, it did. 
SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 07:28
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