|
"and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet)" OH MY GOD IM SO EXCITED. Locking the enemy down on a system with a fortress of a planet is going to be awesome
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:43 |
|
|
Xae posted:I'm not sold on the jump drive changes yet, but I'll have to check them out first It's likely going to be insanely powerful in conjunction with the other changes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:But in this case, it isn't. Okay. There’s basically nothing more than can be, or need be said, that hasn’t been said already in the dev diary. They didn’t pick hyperlanes arbitarily. Most people consider the warfare in Stellaris it’s greatest weakpoint, hyperlanes are seen as the most effective way to remedy that. It is a shame you disagree but c’est la vie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
Taear posted:Why is it that people who're mad on the forums always use loads of elipsis, are really bad at spelling and say "Good Bye"? God, the ellipsis thing bugs the hell out of me. It's always people who type in all lower case and can't string a sentence together to save their life who think that throwing a ton of dots in there will somehow make their lovely grasp of language acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
November 2, 2017 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the business practices of a single video game company, but let me explain what all of this means to me. My life was thrown off balance and I never regained my footing after that day, because I lost my ability to respect. An essential part of being human is to feel respect for those who may or may not be deserving of it. But it is equally human to feel painful disillusionment when someone or something you respected turns out to be much less than you thought. But the level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced the new plan for FTL in Stellaris tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human. Paradox Interactive was a company I respected, and their employees were people I looked up to. Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron were all quality game series that combined historical accuracy with sandbox game worlds. These games may have been cartoony and humorous at times, but deep down they were always realistic and crafted with a level of detail and skill that won appreciation from gamers all across the internet. Stellaris was their newest release, and the internet was in unanimous agreement that it was of unparallelled quality. Following it's long awaited release, Paradox began releasing quality DLC that raised the bar ever higher for Grand Strategy Games. Then the FTL changes for Cherryh were announced. This was not just an announcement of a DLC feature, it was announcement of Paradox Interactive's suicide. It was a change intended to completely disregard any scientific accuracy, and instead shock the entire world with its lunacy. Paradox Interactive had gone off the deep end and raised the middle finger to everybody who stayed loyal to them. They had announced that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't care for their community, and they were going to go out of their way to sabotage everything they had spent years creating. The pain I felt from this betrayal has destroyed me on an emotional level, and has deprived me of my primary source of entertainment. No longer can I play Grand Strategy games without remembering the day I ceased mattering to people I devoted myself to. Paradox had not just destroyed me or their company, they had destroyed the one force of stability in the world: Trust.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
I would support a super slow non-hyperlanes warp-style option as a mid-game tech, but only if it were so slow that it's easy to divert a fleet to intercept. It should be less a tactical advantage than a strategic work-around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Okay. There’s basically nothing more than can be, or need be said, that hasn’t been said already in the dev diary. They didn’t pick hyperlanes arbitarily. Most people consider the warfare in Stellaris it’s greatest weakpoint, hyperlanes are seen as the most effective way to remedy that. It is a shame you disagree but c’est la vie. Yes, they picked hyperlanes because it was the one that fit with Wiz's ~vision~ as opposed to the one that was actually good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
 Why does the man in charge of the game get to make decisions I don't like about the game
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:18
|
|
|
Upon further thinking, if Warp stays in as the Scourge FTL type I'll be cool with never having access to it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:18
|
|
|
IAmTheRad posted:There's one thing that has been bothering me. Cherryh has a really famous novel about space stations (Downbelow Station) and that's why it's about her. quote:God, the ellipsis thing bugs the hell out of me. It's always people who type in all lower case and can't string a sentence together to save their life who think that throwing a ton of dots in there will somehow make their lovely grasp of language acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
Was that quote about ground combat from a while ago or is that in the context of the 2.0 changes? Because changes to ground combat seem like they'd be definitely in the cards given the introduction of system control via starbases etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
Wiz, earlier today in the Paradox forums thread, mentioned that ground combat needs work but he doesn't want to just flat out remove it. No word on when that may be happening though. Likely not this update by the way it was phrased.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
I can't tell the difference between the c+p complaining and the actual complaining
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
Psychotic Weasel posted:Wiz, earlier today in the Paradox forums thread, mentioned that ground combat needs work but he doesn't want to just flat out remove it. Gotcha thanks. I'm cool with them fixing it, I'm sure they could whip it into something a little more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:33
|
|
|
Dreylad posted:Gotcha thanks. Even if it's not more interesting, it'd be great if it wasn't a gigantic micro managey pain in the rear end.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:34
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:I can't tell the difference between the c+p complaining and the actual complaining It doesn't matter because neither is the legitimate opinion of the person posting it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
IAmTheRad posted:There's one thing that has been bothering me. There weren't actual gateways in those books, though, it was just the name of the station they found? Besides, Gateway was more about people being psychologically scarred by ftl travel,than the actual mechanics of going to other stars. So yeah, maybe Pohl is a better name for the update.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
That paradox forum post about being angry about not getting to roleplay Star Trek is especially hilarious to me because I'm psyched by all these changes because I get to play Deep Space 9 and Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Basically the best. I can't wait to open a wormhole into the middle of some sort of horrible death empire on the far side of the galaxy and scramble to build up my starbase in the wormhole system. In terms of galaxy generation, clusters and colliding galaxies are fantastic ideas they mentioned in the stream, but it sounds like what they really want are the Magellanic Clouds. The Magellanic Clouds are really cool and sound like exactly the type of thing they want to set up in map generation where you end up finding a wormhole out there and it full of monsters or a fallen empire or an endgame crisis or whatever. Main Paineframe posted:I can't tell the difference between the c+p complaining and the actual complaining I was worried because of how dumb discourse has been, but the actual dev diary has been as close to universally accepted as you could expect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
Man, reading this thread and the Paradox one in parallel was a bad idea, there are so many duplicate posts I sometimes get confused over which one I was reading -I just tried posting in the Paradox-thread and got surprised when I couldn't, since I wasn't even logged in!  Joking aside, I like the new changes. With two exceptions: I'm a little bit sad to see wormholes go the way of the dinosaurs, but Wiz' explanations make sense, like them being a dangerous resource hog in end-game stage. (So that's why games I played hyperlanes-/warp-only were so much faster then the ones were I let tons of wormhole-civs spawn.  )Losing warp is a bit harder to stomach, especially since I just finished writing down notes for a FTL-mod I had planned. Welp! That project will face some changes now. What I really like is the new jump drive, since I always preferred jump drives to everything else! As they are now, I consider them too overpowered, though: I would have liked to start with a weak-rear end version as additional fourth FTL-choice instead, and invented super-versions of those four instead to replace the old jump drive techs. Anyway, my plan is now to mod the hell out of the new FTL-systems, not to recreate warp or wormholes (dead is dead), but to recreate good old German Perry-verse FTL! A really weak New Jump Drive, modded to be nearly impossibly slow to move through hyperlanes, would be a good way to implement the hoary old Transition Drive. With debuffs and cooldown dialed up to 11, of course: Travelling via Transition Drive is a harrowing experience, you basically punch a hole into hyperspace, then launch yourself as an energy cloud to the target coordinates, were you fall back into normal space and transform back into normal matter. Jump far enough, and the aftereffects can kill the crew and distort the ship so bad it explodes. Later on players can unlock more advanced drives, of course. Since I'm poo poo at modding, chances are they'll all just variations of the jump drive, though. I do want to make warpdrive-like FTL, but until the update hits I obviously can't tell if this is actually possible. Anyway! Out of spite for the warpdrive going away, I'll frankenstein together my own FTL-mod over the next couple weeks. Just that in my half-assed version, wormholes and hyperdrives will be the deleted options! You could consider this my sign-off for old Stellaris.  Edit: And believe me, I will need this first mod as a practice run, considering even something as dead simple as portrait mods tend to turn into a buggy mess when I'm the one making them. Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Eiba posted:That paradox forum post about being angry about not getting to roleplay Star Trek is especially hilarious to me because I'm psyched by all these changes because I get to play Deep Space 9 and Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I do wonder how the New Horizons mod will handle the FTL changes, actually.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
Eiba posted:I was worried because of how dumb discourse has been, but the actual dev diary has been as close to universally accepted as you could expect. It seems to be same set of people repeatedly making the same argument over and over ad nauseum. And also reflexively downvoting anything that isn't just mindless kvetching over the proposed changes. It's kinda amusing that they're so salty over it, I guess but I'm not really feeling much sympathy for them. We seem to have already gotten the bulk of the best salt copy/pasted anyway. I don't see much reason to stick around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
Lum_ posted:I do wonder how the New Horizons mod will handle the FTL changes, actually. We only really lost wormhole drives (and got much cooler wormholes in the deal) and the ability to have a mishmash of FTL types. If you like how warp played, maximizing hyperlanes should get you a fairly close approximation from the sound of it. Stellaris warp already didn't work like Star Trek warp, what with the range and having to stop at stars.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Eiba posted:Set hyperlane connections to maximum and call it warp, probably. Are they actually deleting warp though? Is there some reason that it's actually being deleted not just removed as an option you get normally while still existing for mod makers?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
I'm not sure why people think they'll remove the Warp code from the game. Why would they? Parts of it are still going to be in use by jump drives, and who knows what else.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
It's more likely that it will get broken by accident and they won't bother to fix it because it's not a supported feature.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:Are they actually deleting warp though? Is there some reason that it's actually being deleted not just removed as an option you get normally while still existing for mod makers?  Borders and sensors and distance are all being calculated by hyperlane routes now. I mean I'm no programmer so I don't know if they'd leave a wonky broken warp system in for modders to resuscitate, but it seems like there'd be a lot of issues interacting with other changes. And it seems pointless when you get the same effect from maximum hyperlanes... For the record I have no investment in this and think it'd be cool if they could accommodate modders. It just seems like it'd be difficult.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
 The changes sound real good honestly, the only nitpick I have is that sensor range being based on number of jumps is probably going to be difficult to intuit based on the map, and I don't entirely feel like there's a huge need for that change? It'd be kind of interesting for sensors to be the thing that takes into account actual as-the-crow-flies distances when almost everything else works per jump. I hope that the changes overall just really slow down the game. If you can only explore with science ships and you have to cross systems to do it, I really hope for a much, much slower game. I like slow games and I always feel like once you get going you can burn through stellaris really fast. I also really like that you can shut the door on your bit of the gate network, that's a nice idea.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
Soup du Jour posted:Literally my only complaint is that there's no intra-empire wormhole connectors, but other than that this DD was exactly what I was looking for! Can't wait to check out the stream. I think if you're playing tough enough then all connections will end up intra-empire I'm pretty excited to see how these islands and everything work out, it's gonna be fun. How quickly could you beeline wormholes now, I wonder? RIP wormhole surfers of the galaxy, I will miss you canepazzo posted:https://go.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive gently caress, 7 stack science ship megablob technique is going to be even more powerful now Baronjutter posted:So if "destroying" a starbase occupies a system does that mean ground combat is gone? I like the idea of troops but I hate the current troop/invasion system. rip my endless scourge of machine legions and pissed off godzillas imweasel09 posted:Wiz please let me have a special project to recreate the movie rogue one so I can destroy the enemy space fort with a single strike craft.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
I sure as hell hope Gateways aren't gated by Mega-Engineering or something. In general it seems like between all the mobility changes and the fleet caps, science-first is going to be the new meta.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:19
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
I do wonder if these changes will apply to the Spaceborne aliens. I mean the Tiyanki definately do not follow hyperlanes. Amoeba do not either, even in games where it's modded for Hyperlane only. I mean if the entire game is changing to Hyperlane only, will the legacy support exist for the Spaceborne aliens, except changing it so they can't just go north on the galaxy map from leaving on the east side for example. Also, for the FTL interdictor changes, a way to have made it work is that if a ship is in warp, it snags them. If they are in a hyperlane route, it can't snag those until they enter the system. If a wormhole is trying to cross a barrier, the interdictor instead snags the wormhole to make it open in that system. That's just my two cents on the interdictors pre-seeing how the rework might work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
The fact that only science ships can enter unexplored systems is actually a compelling reason to trade star charts with other empires. You'll lose out on anomalies as usual, but you'll gain strategic maneuverability, so it's actually a worthwhile trade now. And yeah, I really hope that Warp stays for some of the spaceborne aliens and the Scourge. It'll make dealing with them more interesting. IAmTheRad posted:Also, for the FTL interdictor changes, a way to have made it work is that if a ship is in warp, it snags them. If they are in a hyperlane route, it can't snag those until they enter the system. If a wormhole is trying to cross a barrier, the interdictor instead snags the wormhole to make it open in that system. That's just my two cents on the interdictors pre-seeing how the rework might work. I understand the issue they had with wormhole interdiction, since wormholes don't actually cross that space at all, it's done in a separate dimension or whatever. You could swing it with "any wormholes generated in this inhibitor's sphere of influence instead generate over the inhibitor," but honestly, removing them as a player FTL option was probably the better call, and I say this as a person who favors wormholes. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
It's crazy that we're basically getting Stellaris 2 as a DLC instead of a new game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
I guess getting at least that first sensor upgrade is pretty drat important now. Particularly If you can get it as one of your first options. Losing science ships early is a nasty influence hit which is why people did the whole "split the first 3 corvettes and send them to die" thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:33
|
|
|
Eiba posted:Distance calculations. They still need all that stuff in there for jump drives. I see no reason you wouldn't be able to mod in warp since jump drives are still that but faster. There's probably a way to fudge wormhole drives with natural wormholes being a thing but that's me talking out of my rear end.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:36
|
|
|
binge crotching posted:You and me both. I would play the absolute poo poo out of sci-fi Majesty.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:It's crazy that we're basically getting Stellaris 2 as a DLC instead of a new game. Not even a DLC, a free patch? I haven't heard any of these features tagged as paid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:38
|
|
|
All of these features are explicitly free so far, yeah. Stellaris 2.0 will be free and it's great. PittTheElder posted:I sure as hell hope Gateways aren't gated by Mega-Engineering or something. In general it seems like between all the mobility changes and the fleet caps, science-first is going to be the new meta. imweasel09 posted:They still need all that stuff in there for jump drives. I see no reason you wouldn't be able to mod in warp since jump drives are still that but faster. There's probably a way to fudge wormhole drives with natural wormholes being a thing but that's me talking out of my rear end. I mean I guess they could do it so there are invisible hyperlanes that determine distance for influence costs and borders and sensor range and all that, but everyone flies around with modified jump drives to act like old warp... but that seems really awkward and pointless. I too am just talking out of my rear end though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
Eiba posted:They said it won't be gated by Utopia content, so you won't need mega-engineering at least. While they said there is currently no plan for how to solve the problem, an obvious answer would be to de-couple the mega-engineering tech from the DLC (leaving the existing megastructures as DLC only) and have it only apply to gates or something.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:44
|
|
|
Yeah actually I wonder what will be paid. Presumably warscore revamp is going to be also free as it is tied to the new FTl and viceversa, so can't be decoupled. Maybe a new story pack?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:43 |
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:I guess getting at least that first sensor upgrade is pretty drat important now. Particularly If you can get it as one of your first options. You don't need to assign a scientist to a ship to fly it around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 21:44
|
|