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big time bisexual posted:I think it would be apparent to most people that the pronunciation between the two are not exactly the same. Rational thinking that would dispel ethnic nationalism? Now you have truly hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.
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Nov 4, 2017 06:57
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bob dobbs is dead posted:lots of ethnic chinese have fundamental contributions. they're all immigrants to the usa or other western countries or from Good China. case in point: kaimeng he, who invented the resnet. he's from hong kong, I think (or he did PHD in hong kong, I don't remember). ng, who was a big muckety muck in graphical models land and then suddenly switched to being a big muckety muck in neural net land with a lot of the ufldl stuff, was born in london The PRC would love to insist that Chinese ethnicity is the same as Chinese nationality, for pretty much this reason
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Nov 4, 2017 07:07
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you mean, prc nationality story behind ng's hiring is also worth looking at. kai yu (BS and MS in Nanjing but PHD in Munich) went and talked to him as his friend, then went and gave him a lunch with robin li (beida for BS, dropped out of SUNY Buffalo from PHD) and then pumped him up with the good PHD's they had
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Nov 4, 2017 07:13
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My (sort of) current employer asked me to use and install Wechat in the event I return to Hong Kong or go into China. I flat out refused due to security reasons. He didn't object as I was their IT man now but I am not going to touch any poo poo coming out of China no matter what. Especially now that I am just seeing the very edge of the company's trade data which I will be neck deep in eventually. When there is going to be a security breach it isn't going to be me. Pirate Radar posted:The PRC would love to insist that Chinese ethnicity is the same as Chinese nationality, for pretty much this reason This. If you called me Chinese I will correct you without missing a step.
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Nov 4, 2017 07:58
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oohhboy posted:My (sort of) current employer asked me to use and install Wechat in the event I return to Hong Kong or go into China. I flat out refused due to security reasons. He didn't object as I was their IT man now but I am not going to touch any poo poo coming out of China no matter what. Especially now that I am just seeing the very edge of the company's trade data which I will be neck deep in eventually. I'll sell you a six piece suit for your company's trade secrets.
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Nov 4, 2017 08:23
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Chaoshan Mom Yesterday Chaoshan Girl went to her hometown somewhere in the hills about 3 hours bus ride outside of Shenzhen. Since her return to China and eating differently, and a wider variety of stuff, she wanted to cook some things for her sister and mom because she thought they might enjoy it. I told her that her mom would hate it, but I didn't know about the sister. CG returned home to her 5-story house, of which only the first 2 floors are used and the other 3 are just there to say they have them. They are cleaned once per year before Spring Festival, but according to CG it's too much hassle to wash the bedding so the bedding hasn't been washed in 5+ years. The mom assumes it doesn't matter because it will all air out between uses. The thing about CG is that her mom is loving retarded. Her dad isn't poo poo, but he was smart enough to realize that staying at home for anything more than a few hours a day is a bad idea. CG, growing up in such a controlled household like many Chinese do, had no idea her mom was such a jackass until she went to university, and then had a true realization once she finished uni and got a job and moved away, since she was returning home every weekend in uni. Her mom has extreme food aversion. The woman simply does not eat any fruit at all. None. She hates the taste of all fruit and thinks humans shouldn't eat it. This goes for other foods, too, and she refused to let her hated foods in the house, or her kids to eat them. She does not eat a majority of vegetables. She does not eat anything spicy, even though she's from Sichuan. She does not eat most grains. She doesn't like sweet things. She does not like bitter things. She does not like about 90% of the foods Chinese people eat, and 100% of the foods non-Chinese people eat. She won't touch anything with cheese or milk in it, or dishes that aren't originally from China. Even though she does not eat most dishes originally from China. She eats rice, Chaoshan slimey noodles with fried lettuce, and meat. This is only one aspect of how mentally ill this woman is. One example is that since her mom never ate most foods, CG never ate them growing up, and had almost no exposure to them until she left home for her boarding high school or university. She ate her first banana at 15, first mango at 17. She couldn't eat oranges or apples because the taste made her feel sick. Even to this day, at 24, she struggles with a few fruits, though now she can eat many of them with no issues. The look on her face when I gave her some Arabian dates was hilarious. She was the first person I've ever met that didn't like the taste, even though they are like 70-80% sugar by weight. The same goes for most vegetables. Since her mom hated them, CG grew up on a very specific diet of Chaoshan foods that were easily available at the cafeterias and eateries outside in Chaoshan land. She didn't have to try any variety until she graduated from university and moved to Shenzhen. I don't even know how old she was at that time, since she was a freak and was working full-time and doing school at night, graduating university at like 19 or 20. It wasn't until her first time being alone and having to go find food for herself that she saw there were more vegetables than she knew. She became a Buddhist and vegetarian, and the Buddhist buffets she ate at were like wonderlands of unknown foods and vegetables she'd never seen before. To compare it, her first time living alone and finding food was met with as much confusion and curiosity as an Alabama peanut farmer being transported to China. She had no experience with anything she was looking at or eating before, even though she is Chinese. She took her mom to these buffets, and the thought that place served no meat was more disgusting to the mom than the fact that she was terrified of all the vegetables inside. So, in her sweet and preachy happiness at the new diet she has, she wanted to cook some stuff for her mom and sister. Her sister is a lot more adventurous, and lived in CG's house for a while and had to experience some Buddhist buffets and foreign foods with her, but still has some traits from growing up with crazy mom. She's only 18, so she still has time to grow mentally and break out of it like CG did. CG cooked a simple penne pasta with fresh tomato sauce with basil and sprinkle herbs, imported olive oil, and sea salt. Then she made her new obsession, veggie wraps with tofu slices cooked in butter, all doused in 1000 Island dressing. LOL. She steamed broccoli and then put butter and salt on it. There was something else, but I am forgetting. She presented this dinner to them and was very proud of herself. She forgot that her mom hates tomatoes. Her mom hates tofu. Her mom hates whatever else was in the wraps. Her mom has never eaten broccoli before. Her mom was upset. Her mom has never had any inkling to be polite to her kids, preferring to follow the traditional Chinese mother method of unlimited whining, complaining, scolding, nitpicking, lying, and insulting. She picked up a penne noodle with her chopsticks, took a bite, and spit it out onto the plate. She said the broccoli looks disgusting. She said she would order some food from outside. The sister, who is a nice girl that I met many times (and CG got upset when I recommended we 3p), enjoyed the pasta, but was apprehensive about the broccoli, and only ate one piece. She took a bite of the wrap, but couldn't eat it because it had something new she's never tried before: Raw vegetables (cucumber, lettuce, tomato). CG had to store it away in the fridge, to eat herself over the next few days at home. Her mom is weird in other ways. She runs the AC 24 hours per day, even in winter. She refuses to be anywhere there is no AC. She leaves all the lights in all the rooms in the house on 24/7. She gets really upset if anyone turns them off for any reason, even when sleeping. CG and her siblings grew up sleeping with the lights on their entire lives, and apparently this might be normal for people in her area, because they left the lights on at night the entire time she was in university. She didn't sleep with them off until her first time living alone, and she said it was so weird she had to train herself over many months to sleep without lights. Her mom will not stay in CG's house because of the lights being off. She was demanding 2000 RMB per month from CG because it's a Chaoshan custom to get payment from kids/daughters that are unmarried. CG was giving it, but when she told me about it when we first met, I convinced her to stop, and she did. Her mom flipped out. Now CG makes sure than if she gives any money on a holiday or something, that it all goes towards their 2-3k RMB monthly electric bill. Her mom openly admits to marrying the dad just for his money. The funny thing is that the dad married her outright without any sort of vetting process, because that's a traditional Chaoshan method, and it turns out that the failures of being a typical Mainland guy (can't wash his own clothes, can't boil water, can't clean, etc.) were the same failures of the woman he married. From the first week of marriage they have had to rely on maids and eating outside. The mom eventually took over the cooking, and CG was always telling me about things we'd eat or see that the mom was somehow able to completely ruin despite it being difficult to ruin. CG told me that they came to a point where all she ate for a decade was basically rice, noodles, and a couple fried vegetables. Or instant noodles. Her mom couldn't even boil noodles properly. The dad made an agreement that he will eat all his meals outside, and the kids can eat what the mom cooks. This agreement stands to this day, and the dad is never home at lunch or dinner times. The mom never had interest in raising her four kids, so she got a maid to do it. Whenever she visits her other kids now that have babies, she just looks at the baby but won't even hold it. She just shows up and is one more mouth to feed, expecting the sons' wives to feed her and give her boarding while the sons are off in the electronic's market or with their mistresses. Chaoshan women (but not all) are expected to be housewives their entire lives, so the system of grandparents moving in is not necessary like for other Chinese. The wife belongs at home and stays there, and has all her friendship and duties in the home. She won't be running off to Hong Kong for the weekend with her friends. CG told me that if word got out that was no longer a virgin, she would be shunned by everyone and knows for a fact that all her girlfriend's parents will tell them they are absolutely not allowed to meet her again, because what if her filthy behavior rubs off on them? At the same time, a married Chaoshan man is allowed to keep however many mistresses he can pay for, as long he doesn't remind his wife about it. Even her dad was doing his, and the mom was like "LOL, but I have a 5-story house and they don't." They are so up each other's asses with gossip and their shaming culture, that it's normal to find Chaoshan people living like 5-6 generations outside China who still cling to the language and habits, being overbearing and weird on their kids, and insular as they can get. CG's mom is from Sichuan, but knew when she married the dad she had to go total Chaoshan and learn the language (Teochew), culture, etc. Like a religious convert compared to those who grew up in it, she became a strict example of what it means to be part of that group. She went full retard and became just as bad as any of the other uneducated moronic women in the village. Since Chaoshan culture sees zero value in education, only business and working, a majority of the men in the towns may or may not finish high school. The girls might finish middle school. Sure, many do go to universities, but those are likely the people from the major cities (Chaozhou, Shantou, Jieyang) and will often be more similar to regular Mainland culture and issues once out of school, while the smaller towns are as backward as they can get, and where I am talking about now. They only crave money, and will do anything for it. Once they get money, they become tuhaos of the highest degree, and will firstly spend it on something like a house that can house 30 people, but only put 4 people in it. They bus in to Shenzhen 6-7 days per week, 3 hours each direction, so they can work and make money in a city they either can't afford and never will, or to return to their palatial stackhouses with the expensive car they never drive. Today, CG went to see her dad's sister's new house. They own a house that is 6-stories tall, but were unhappy with it. Their new house is 7-stories tall. It is as gaudy as you can expect from people with no brains, no education, and lots of money. How many people do they plan to live in there? 5. They decided to rent out the old house, room by room, and then rent part of the new house, which is estimated to give them an income of 100k RMB per year. CG said they absolutely refuse to let the kids go to school, and will force them to work in factories until they get married, and then maybe they can go learn how to do business. Can you imagine those idiots being in charge of $50k USD orders? No need to imagine, those are the people running all the factories making all the cheap electronic poo poo we use every day. When you hear about lovely factories in Guangdong (especially within 200km of Shenzhen) full of cheating, lying, stealing, and producing the worst-made products... these are people behind it. That is their culture, and that is why they think nothing to rip off anyone they can, even each other. When other countries can match what the Shenzhen area and China can do for the electronics markets, the Chaoshan people will be the first to get hit with money loss. Granted, there are some areas in Chaoshan that do other things, such as one town makes a majority of the cheap underwear and bras sold across Asia, but the rest will get hit. She was showing me photos of the town and all these disgusting little houses with crime-prevention bars over every possible opening, with Range Rovers and BMWs parked in front. LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06ALuMzDL4 Bajaj fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Nov 4, 2017 |
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Nov 4, 2017 09:26
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't know why so many tech journalists don't realize how often Chinese companies become monopolies here because the competition is literally just banned. Yeah everyone uses WeChat but Kakaotalk is restricted and Line/WhatsApp are blocked. I don't know of any situation where a Chinese tech company has succeeded in a fair and open marketplace. DJI with drones maybe? I don't know enough about the drone market. [Tell] me more about DJI. My friend bought one of their top of the line drones and was showing it off to me the other day. He's a successful businessman in San Diego and was touting this drone as the symbol/harbringer of China's ascendancy. I wasn't going to tell him that it's probably all stolen hardware and software. I really don't know anything about the company though. I'll admit the the drone was a very fancy piece of tech. 4K gimballed camera, a remote that attaches to your phone and streams video back to an app. 30 minutes of flight time, built in GPS capabilities, and most imprsssively, auto navigation back to its takeoff site if it loses its connection to you. I was impressed, which is honestly the first time I've ever been impressed with the technical capabilities of something coming out of China.
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Nov 4, 2017 09:30
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I have grown to really like and admire Chaoshan Girl.
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Nov 4, 2017 09:42
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Bajaj posted:Chaoshan Mom Sounds like this place deserves orbital bombardment. Eh, like most of the world, but this place first.
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Nov 4, 2017 09:46
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't know why so many tech journalists don't realize how often Chinese companies become monopolies here because the competition is literally just banned. Yeah everyone uses WeChat but Kakaotalk is restricted and Line/WhatsApp are blocked. I don't know of any situation where a Chinese tech company has succeeded in a fair and open marketplace. DJI with drones maybe? I don't know enough about the drone market. Was Didi Chuxing one of the "banned into a monopoly" companies? I hear it has sizable investments and what sounds like reasonable progress, much like uber and lyft, but nothing negative, as China is wont to hide face-losing events. It hasn't been in a business disaster article, so I have to assume it has competency behind it(unlike the over-traffic bus that ruined the very road), but if it's bigger than uber by factors, and China's minimum driving standards are worse than even America's, then something has to go wrong with it at some point. I'm wondering how much of it(if any) was a rip from other western apps, but with Chinese characteristics(like the pay system from Alibaba) Bajaj posted:When you hear about lovely factories in Guangdong (especially within 200km of Shenzhen) full of cheating, lying, stealing, and producing the worst-made products... these are people behind it. That is their culture, and that is why they think nothing to rip off anyone they can, even each other. When other countries can match what the Shenzhen area and China can do for the electronics markets, the Chaoshan people will be the first to get hit with money loss. Granted, there are some areas in Chaoshan that do other things, such as one town makes a majority of the cheap underwear and bras sold across Asia, but the rest will get hit. There's no way to know which are good and which aren't? You would think western expats would throw together some kind of list and manage trusted contributions, find out which factories cut the wrong corners and such, but even typing it out, it sounds like a ton of work, and that's not including infiltration issues and retaliation. A Chinese Consumer Reports, basically. But without Chinese characteristics. Solid story, though, I'm glad that CG has seen the joys of a world of food.
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Nov 4, 2017 10:27
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Bajaj posted:Chaoshan Mom I think you should marry the mom, op
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Nov 4, 2017 10:29
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Cantorsdust posted:[Tell] me more about DJI. My friend bought one of their top of the line drones and was showing it off to me the other day. They make drones and seem to be genuinely popular outside of China. I don't know anything else. The only other tech company I've ever heard of non-Chinese using was Xiaomi for a bit, but only because they were making phones of decent quality for very cheap. Story comments: Sichuan person hating spicy food is more common than you'd think, people here are huge whiny babies about chili peppers. I've been fortunate but have heard many a story from friends of cooking food for Chinese friends and the Chinese people just refuse to touch it and boil some rice for themselves to eat, without any apparent understanding how loving rude that is. Like man, I've had people cook me some lovely rear end food but you eat it and thank them for the amount of work they put into doing something nice for you. And you don't say anything unless it's a friend learning to cook who has specifically asked for feedback.
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Nov 4, 2017 10:40
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Mistle posted:There's no way to know which are good and which aren't? You would think western expats would throw together some kind of list and manage trusted contributions, find out which factories cut the wrong corners and such, but even typing it out, it sounds like a ton of work, and that's not including infiltration issues and retaliation. These companies thrive because the whole system promotes obscurity. That some companies manage to get quality products with any kind of regularity is a minor miracle given the conditions. I’m kind of curious as to how Apple (for instance) does it, and how much vigilance it takes on a daily basis.
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Nov 4, 2017 10:43
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The first time anyone gave me ketamine in China it was when I was visiting chaoshan. I only knew a couple chaoshan people but they were good friends.
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Nov 4, 2017 10:51
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Chaoshan girl is awesome but imagine Chaoshan mother in law.
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Nov 4, 2017 11:06
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Cantorsdust posted:[Tell] me more about DJI. My friend bought one of their top of the line drones and was showing it off to me the other day. He's a successful businessman in San Diego and was touting this drone as the symbol/harbringer of China's ascendancy. I wasn't going to tell him that it's probably all stolen hardware and software. I really don't know anything about the company though. They pretty much own the top end of the consumer drone market worldwide. Unless you're lifting payloads or need to mount your own camera there's not much of a reason to buy anything other than a DJI Mavic Pro if you have $1k to burn.
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Nov 4, 2017 12:16
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Bajaj, your mother-in-law is autistic. But also rich and far away (and hopefully will die soon?)
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Nov 4, 2017 13:14
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HerStuddMuffin posted:If you found out a trustworthy, honest, reliable supplier in the endless sea of garbage, would you share that info with your competitors? Reciprocally, if you got burned buying some assclown’s cheap garbage that fails every quality test with a rating of criminal negligence, would you warn off your competitors? From what I understand, Apple basically gave up in the mid 2000's and operates all of its mainland supply with Taiwanese middlemen; not just Foxconn and Pegatron, but when it buys batteries in Shenzhen and the like it first goes through Taiwanese consults.
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Nov 4, 2017 13:52
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"Alabama peanut farmer being transported to China. " Well goooolllllyyyyyyy! I'd watch this show.
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Nov 4, 2017 15:30
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China goons, longtime reader/lurker here please be gentle. I'm on my first work trip to China for about a week to Hong Kong and then Guangdong. What's good/not good any any pitfalls I should avoid? Boss is accompanying me on this trip however I have an uneasy feeling about the whole thing.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:04
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HerStuddMuffin posted:If you found out a trustworthy, honest, reliable supplier in the endless sea of garbage, would you share that info with your competitors? Reciprocally, if you got burned buying some assclown’s cheap garbage that fails every quality test with a rating of criminal negligence, would you warn off your competitors? Even if there was such a directory the outfits are so fly by night should one go down a couple days later they will be back with different clothes. It is the consequence of the utter lack of rule of law in a FYGM economy. Apple didn't go to China for a long time. It was Ireland, Singapore, Mexico etc. When they did they never directly touched the poop and if you are remotely smart you wouldn't pay up front. Since it is the Taiwanese running the show at Foxxcon they had plenty of incentives to no gently caress people over recognizing if they lasted just long enough to get that good reputation they would rise above the poo poo heap to get the real deal big orders. They still hosed over the locals all the same but because they want to keep the orders flowing they responded doing the minimum which is a lot more than anyone else would. Taiwan has had a long history of making good hi-tech good like motherboards etc so it isn't a surprise the big companies would eventually go to them and let them handle the BS.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:05
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spiky butthole posted:China goons, longtime reader/lurker here please be gentle. I'm on my first work trip to China for about a week to Hong Kong and then Guangdong. What's good/not good any any pitfalls I should avoid? Boss is accompanying me on this trip however I have an uneasy feeling about the whole thing. Hong Kong? Whatever, you're generally not going to get hosed over. Haggle when buying goods at shops is acceptable if it is some hole in the wall type deal. If you want electronics and related tools go to the Golden Arcade. The goods there are real but check all the same. Some of the normal prices on the goods walk over even Amazon's discount price. Assume street markets are selling fake brands etc. Its not a secret or anything. If you want some Nukie, Juice Dot it shoes or poo poo fucker clothing for shits and giggles go ahead but haggle away. Otherwise just be a normal person in a normal city. No one gives a poo poo about your skin colour. China? The combat veterans will fill you in.
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Nov 4, 2017 16:18
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spiky butthole posted:China goons, longtime reader/lurker here please be gentle. I'm on my first work trip to China for about a week to Hong Kong and then Guangdong. What's good/not good any any pitfalls I should avoid? Boss is accompanying me on this trip however I have an uneasy feeling about the whole thing. 1) Hong Kong is not China 2) Don’t actually say that to any Chinese people unless they bring it up first
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Nov 4, 2017 16:28
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I've never been to Guangdong but for the time being Hong Kong is still just a normal, cool global city, enjoy.
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Nov 4, 2017 18:23
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Grand Fromage posted:I've never been to Guangdong but for the time being Hong Kong is still just a normal, cool global city, enjoy. Well, with the caveat that it's still China. Except that one part which is Pakistan.
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Nov 4, 2017 18:35
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Darkest Auer posted:Well, with the caveat that it's still China. Except that one part which is Pakistan. Yeah but it's Good China like Taiwan or Malaysia.
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Nov 4, 2017 18:37
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Pokemon OH SNAP! posted:They pretty much own the top end of the consumer drone market worldwide. Unless you're lifting payloads or need to mount your own camera there's not much of a reason to buy anything other than a DJI Mavic Pro if you have $1k to burn. Some tech magazine did a longform video puff piece on DJI and the guy who runs them. The founder and CEO came across as really smart and really cool. He puts a lot of effort into finding and cultivating the top creative talent in china and abroad and bringing them to Shenzhen to do what they want. It seems like a legitimately good company.
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Nov 4, 2017 18:48
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https://www.whatsonweibo.com/man-dies-heart-attack-told-not-smoke-elevator-now-family-suing/ China will be the #1 Frivolous or Vexatious Claims Country by 2020
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Nov 4, 2017 19:34
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How does it go in China? https://twitter.com/JoshPherigo/status/926594025448263686
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Nov 5, 2017 00:54
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HK own currency is inbuilt into now the Chinese RMB with most financial hubs moving out of HK to Shanghai . HK flag is not recognized in any countries. Just about every country recognizes HK belonged to China all along and now it is returned . Fundamentally if one cannot accept that , it's hard to move on Separate immigration organ being integrated into China's system . 1.4 billion vs 7 million . No logical person would expect the Chinese system to conform to make HK the choice of a country Cantonese was derived from the southern region and not from HK . Ancient ancestors who were Chinese by race came to HK and set up their base there . There is about 50 million Chinese in the southern region that speak Cantonese like their ancestors There is over 650 regional dialects and the CCP doesn't govern that . To have a language that 1.4 billion can understand and have a working language , Mandarin was chosen. Sadly most HK people have very poor skill sets in this and believe that not learning Mandarin is the way to go while foreign countries have set up their best schools with Chinese as part of their curriculum. English is not an official language in HK and most HK people either don't speak it or cannot speak it fluently and that's a fact even after 100 years of colonial ruling. China has been financially propping HK in the last few years through the last few economic blips through direct trade and tourism and now the transportation hubs
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Nov 5, 2017 02:31
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Bajaj posted:a majority of the men in the towns may or may not finish high school Not just a majority, but 100%!
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Nov 5, 2017 02:47
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Mandarin has been the "common language" in China for over 400 years and many Chinese still can't speak in fluently.
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Nov 5, 2017 05:10
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nickmeister posted:Mandarin has been the "common language" in China for over 400 years and many Chinese still can't speak in fluently. To be fair, English isn't too much better as far as native proficiency goes. I have people in their 30s/40s who still gently caress up there/their/they're constantly.
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Nov 5, 2017 05:30
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WarpedNaba posted:To be fair, English isn't too much better as far as native proficiency goes. I have people in their 30s/40s who still gently caress up there/their/they're constantly. Will that level of mastery ever truly hinder your're ability to understand their intended meaning?
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Nov 5, 2017 05:35
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It would certainly hinder my sudden desire to pimpslap your face.
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Nov 5, 2017 06:20
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nickmeister posted:Mandarin has been the "common language" in China for over 400 years and many Chinese still can't speak in fluently. I took a trip to Pingyao about 8 months into my year-long Chinese language study in Beijing. At this point, I was able to hold a pretty decent conversation in Mandarin and had gotten used to Beijing and Hebei accents. Since Pingyao was technically in the next province over (ignoring the fact that Beijing is its own province), I assumed the Mandarin wouldn't be that different to what I was used to in Beijing. Turns out I was dead wrong, and I ended up being unable to talk to anyone over the age of 30. I remember this one street sweeper was repeatedly saying something to me, and it must have taken me at least 15 seconds to realize he was just asking me where I came from. On the bus ride back to Beijing, all I could think about was how little I had to show for my 8 months of studying.
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Nov 5, 2017 06:41
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basic hitler posted:your're Did you do this on purpose?
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Nov 5, 2017 08:09
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Probably not, or they would have also said “there’re intended meaning” just to be on the nose with it. Their point stands though, it doesn’t stop you from understanding their meaning.
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Nov 5, 2017 08:14
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teehrs aslo taht tnihg wrhee you can sabcrmle up the lteerts in the mdilde of wdros but yuor biarn dsonet crae as lnog as the fsirt and lsat lreetts are rhigt
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Nov 5, 2017 08:28
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HerStuddMuffin posted:Probably not, or they would have also said “there’re intended meaning” just to be on the nose with it. Their point stands though, it doesn’t stop you from understanding their meaning. last second substition forgetting the other their
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Nov 5, 2017 08:37
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