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Episode over. I like the explanation of the tapestry metaphor right at the end. Although the way having sex with what's her name ruined their friendship kind of went against the moral Q was trying to teach about seizing the moment.
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Nov 4, 2017 03:35
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Trip report: DS9 Season 7, episode 25 "What You Leave Behind" Well, DS9 died like it lived: ending an episode, or in this case a series, rather abruptly. The montage near the end was a'ight, and I guess everyone got an ok sendoff. A lot better than Voyager or Enterprise got, that's for sure. One thing bothers me a little bit, though, and I know it's just the editing, but Kai Winn and Gul Dukat were seemingly in the Fire Caves for like 3 days at least. Nice nod to the scene where Gary Mitchell waves away Kirk's phaser rifle and forces Kirk to bow to him. So, as I said, DS9 died as it lived, ripping off superior TOS and TNG episodes. 
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Nov 4, 2017 03:59
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LMAO, that's the one. 
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Nov 4, 2017 04:10
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https://twitter.com/gates_mcfadden/status/926658185049522177
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Nov 4, 2017 04:56
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Jeb!, having just seen Tapestry for the first time, how do you feel about the depiction of Picard as a dreary Astrophysics Lieutenant? While I understand that a Picard who retains memories of being a captain would be unhappy with that situation, I never liked the implication that it was a sad existence for anyone to have. I can't help but think there's probably someone on the Enterprise in the unaltered timeline with that exact same job and happy to be doing it.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:02
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Mountaineer posted:Jeb!, having just seen Tapestry for the first time, how do you feel about the depiction of Picard as a dreary Astrophysics Lieutenant? While I understand that a Picard who retains memories of being a captain would be unhappy with that situation, I never liked the implication that it was a sad existence for anyone to have. I can't help but think there's probably someone on the Enterprise in the unaltered timeline with that exact same job and happy to be doing it. He cannot help it. Captaincy dwells within him, swells within his bones; he must command, to do less would erode his soul against the millstone of time's arduous passage.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:08
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Mountaineer posted:I can't help but think there's probably someone on the Enterprise in the unaltered timeline with that exact same job and happy to be doing it. Sure but that hypothetical person was living up to their potential. Picard would always know he wasn't.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:10
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Mountaineer posted:Jeb!, having just seen Tapestry for the first time, how do you feel about the depiction of Picard as a dreary Astrophysics Lieutenant? While I understand that a Picard who retains memories of being a captain would be unhappy with that situation, I never liked the implication that it was a sad existence for anyone to have. I can't help but think there's probably someone on the Enterprise in the unaltered timeline with that exact same job and happy to be doing it. Yeah I was thinking about that. It was kind of hosed up how they presented it as a fate worse than death (literally) when it's a completely voluntary job that's necessary for the ship.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:11
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Yeah I was thinking about that. It was kind of hosed up how they presented it as a fate worse than death (literally) when it's a completely voluntary job that's necessary for the ship. I can see it with a specific case like Picard. This is a man with a drive and a will, who should by all rights go on to do great things... not acting on the great gifts he has. There undoubtedly are people who would be completely happy as an astrophysics officer - no better place to study the cosmos than Starfleet and I'm sure the astrophysicists on board are delighted whenever the Enterprise runs into an anomaly this week. But that's not Picard, his heart (pardon the joke) isn't in it. He had the potential to be so much more and he knows it, and knows he chose to not take a chance and act on it.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:15
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I'm sure there is someone with his job there, but they should be happy with it because that's (hopefully) what they want and not what they just drifted into. Sadsack-Picard ended up there because he has no passion or ambition, this was bore out when he went to talk to Riker and Troi about the possibility of moving up in the world and they laid out his performance history. I get the feeling that someone in his job who was actually doing what they love wouldn't have been shunted off to busywork half the time.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:19
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cheetah7071 posted:I would call it the only great Q episode Q-Who has my favorite Q moments, though the Borg are the real stars there I suppose. But that part where Q is just deadly serious and not joking at all is one of the most menacing bits in the whole series. When even Q is like, bro listen to me this is real poo poo. Also All Good Things!
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Nov 4, 2017 05:20
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Q posted:If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid. Love that speech.
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Nov 4, 2017 05:27
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The best Q episode is the novel where he gives Lwaxana Q powers and she beats the poo poo out of him.
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Nov 4, 2017 06:24
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Picard wasn't always volcel 
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Nov 4, 2017 06:50
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Episode over. I like the explanation of the tapestry metaphor right at the end. Although the way having sex with what's her name ruined their friendship kind of went against the moral Q was trying to teach about seizing the moment. It's TNG so if you have sex you get punished.
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Nov 4, 2017 06:59
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All this Q talk and no one mentions Deja Q? Easily the second best Q episode after Tapestry.
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Nov 4, 2017 07:23
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Beachcomber posted:
The best line in all of Star Trek, and perfectly encapsulates what it's all about.
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Nov 4, 2017 12:39
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MY WIFE and I watched DS9 S3: EP14 ‘Heart of Stone’. She was pissed when it turned out that was not Kira in the cave, especially after Odo finally spilled the beans on his feelings for her. I had forgotten most of this episode but it not only has a lot of Odo backstory but also this is the one where Nog decided he wants to join Starfleet. Love the scene at the end where Avery Brooks gets in Nog’s face after he says he won’t give him the recommendation letter he wants.
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Nov 4, 2017 13:51
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Who Mourns for Morn? Quark gets into shenanigans. Harmless, pointless fun. Next up, though, Far Beyond the Stars.
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Nov 4, 2017 17:18
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Cythereal posted:I can see it with a specific case like Picard. This is a man with a drive and a will, who should by all rights go on to do great things... not acting on the great gifts he has. There undoubtedly are people who would be completely happy as an astrophysics officer - no better place to study the cosmos than Starfleet and I'm sure the astrophysicists on board are delighted whenever the Enterprise runs into an anomaly this week. But that's not Picard, his heart (pardon the joke) isn't in it. He had the potential to be so much more and he knows it, and knows he chose to not take a chance and act on it. McSpanky posted:I'm sure there is someone with his job there, but they should be happy with it because that's (hopefully) what they want and not what they just drifted into. Sadsack-Picard ended up there because he has no passion or ambition, this was bore out when he went to talk to Riker and Troi about the possibility of moving up in the world and they laid out his performance history. I get the feeling that someone in his job who was actually doing what they love wouldn't have been shunted off to busywork half the time. On a related note, Jeb's! posts on "Chain of Command" reminded me of something Peter David once wrote about Jellico. I think it was in the first New Frontier novella where the Enterprise-E crew meet Jellico again, who's since been promoted to admiral and is running a starbase. There's a few paragraphs where Riker is musing about Jellico as a person, and he comes to the conclusion that ultimately Jellico is a limited personality. He's a good captain and a good admiral, but he's someone who is only going to grow so far and no farther. By contrast, Picard is a man whose horizons are limitless. To put it another way, Jellico is prime Starfleet material, but no omnipotent energy being would ever choose him to act as a representative of all mankind. You know, Peter David put a lot of crazy crap in his Trek novels, but his characterization is fantastic when he puts his mind to it. Hell, he even made John Harriman into a good character and a decent Enterprise captain.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:25
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Far Beyond the Stars I still think Rocks and Shoals is my favorite Deep Space Nine episode. But this? This is my favorite Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode - more than The Visitor. Gets you right in the feels, and most of the characters are recognizable as figures in real world 1950s science fiction writing. Despite how much I adore Sisko, most of my picks for the strongest episodes of DS9 barely involve him at all. Not this one, and it's a message we still urgently need today in America as we've been so violently reminded that we're not as past racism and the need for the civil rights movement as we so often like to think.
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Nov 4, 2017 19:59
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Marshal Radisic posted:You know, Peter David put a lot of crazy crap in his Trek novels, but his characterization is fantastic when he puts his mind to it. Hell, he even made John Harriman into a good character and a decent Enterprise captain. Even when I was going through my serious Star Trek phase as a kid and TNG was at its peak, Peter David's novels were absolutely the only ones I could read. In everything else, the characters just felt "off" and I'd give up pretty quick. Abridged TOS audiobooks were okay, though - probably the combination of being read by actual actors (nearly always James Doohan) and having less familiarity with the characters to begin with. Cythereal posted:Far Beyond the Stars Around that same time, Marc Scott Zicree's Twilight Zone Companion was one of my favorite books, highlighting a lot about the pulp stories that were adapted into TZ episodes, which really shows in "Far Beyond the Stars." I'd love to get him to speak about sci-fi history at my con, late 50s/early 60s stuff tends to get overlooked.
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Nov 4, 2017 20:52
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One Little Ship Welcome to life on a Starfleet vessel, Jem'hadar! This episode got me laughing much harder than any traditional comedy episode on DS9 bar Trials and Tribbleations. Could easily have fit into any Star Trek series, but in this case it wasn't jarring or blatantly a recycled TNG script like early DS9 suffered from. Here it's Honey I Shrunk The Runabout and everyone just runs with it.
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Nov 4, 2017 21:39
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Cythereal posted:One Little Ship I would really like more episodes like this, coming across some really weird science crap and the Starfleet crew just figure out how to deal with it because they're used to it, while the aliens are just caught with their pants down because they don't even know what to think, because all they're interested in space for is conquest and politics. The TNG one with the Enterprise and a Warbird frozen in time was in a similar vein, as well as Rascals, although neither exactly.
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Nov 4, 2017 21:58
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After The War posted:Even when I was going through my serious Star Trek phase as a kid and TNG was at its peak, Peter David's novels were absolutely the only ones I could read. Peter David used to be just about the best Trek author (low hurdle to clear though). I've quite enjoyed some Dayton Ward/David Mack stuff since then.
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Nov 4, 2017 23:38
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I would really like more episodes like this, coming across some really weird science crap and the Starfleet crew just figure out how to deal with it because they're used to it, while the aliens are just caught with their pants down because they don't even know what to think, because all they're interested in space for is conquest and politics. I like to imagine dealing with this kind of stuff is part of the standard coursework at Starfleet Academy. Think you're hot poo poo, cadet? Your holodeck exercise today is from the Enterprise files. Let's see how you do with this. My doodling about a dream series set after DS9 has the ship's science officer like doing this to her ensigns in the science department for their staff exercises. The Voyager file simulations are reserved for when a promising but headstrong ensign really needs to get knocked flat on their rear end.
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Nov 5, 2017 00:49
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Drone posted:Peter David used to be just about the best Trek author (low hurdle to clear though). I've quite enjoyed some Dayton Ward/David Mack stuff since then.
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Nov 5, 2017 01:03
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Tapestry definitely has the TOS-est moral of any TNG episode. But it is certainly handled much better than that episode where Good Kirk is unable to command the ship until he gets Rapey Kirk back.
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Nov 5, 2017 01:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:MY WIFE and I watched DS9 S3: EP14 ‘Heart of Stone’. It does in a way kind of rob Kira of an episode but I always found the scene where Odo just can't help but see everything wrong despite it being everything he wants to be especially strong. It's a fairly contrived set-up but Odo's silent heartbreak (maybe not heartbreak but I can't think of a better word) makes it work well enough in the end. And any chance to plug Aron Eisenberg as one of the unsung heroes of DS9.
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Nov 5, 2017 04:51
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Kibayasu posted:It does in a way kind of rob Kira of an episode but I always found the scene where Odo just can't help but see everything wrong despite it being everything he wants to be especially strong. It's a fairly contrived set-up but Odo's silent heartbreak (maybe not heartbreak but I can't think of a better word) makes it work well enough in the end. Yep, I love that episode and that tragic realization. I kinda wish they just left it at that. Odo and Kira were a pretty boring couple.
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Nov 5, 2017 07:39
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Cythereal posted:I like to imagine dealing with this kind of stuff is part of the standard coursework at Starfleet Academy. Think you're hot poo poo, cadet? Your holodeck exercise today is from the Enterprise files. Let's see how you do with this. Sparks fly from consoles in the simulatorium control room, teal fog billows from broken overhead ducts. tunic-clad administrators are angrily waving PADDs at each other and screaming because Ensign Janeway somehow came back with more shuttlecraft than she started the simulation with
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Nov 5, 2017 19:05
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Sir Lemming posted:Tapestry definitely has the TOS-est moral of any TNG episode. But it is certainly handled much better than that episode where Good Kirk is unable to command the ship until he gets Rapey Kirk back. The Enemy Within, and the point wasn't that 'evil' Kirk was "rapey". He was pure id that was unrestrained by the ego and superego of 'good' Kirk. To be a complete person and an effective commander, Kirk needed all those savory and unsavory aspects of his personality.
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Nov 5, 2017 22:13
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The Enemy Within, and the point wasn't that 'evil' Kirk was "rapey". He was pure id that was unrestrained by the ego and superego of 'good' Kirk. To be a complete person and an effective commander, Kirk needed all those savory and unsavory aspects of his personality. Part of the unsavory aspect is definitely his aggressive sexual desires though.
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Nov 5, 2017 22:23
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Do you think it bothers some of the crewmembers on the USS Enterprise that they allow children onto the vessel? Do they train them to be around kids at Starfleet Academy?
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Nov 6, 2017 00:58
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The Enemy Within, and the point wasn't that 'evil' Kirk was "rapey". He was pure id that was unrestrained by the ego and superego of 'good' Kirk. To be a complete person and an effective commander, Kirk needed all those savory and unsavory aspects of his personality. Which could've been shown without that scene where he totally tries to rape Rand.
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Nov 6, 2017 01:15
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Gaz-L posted:Which could've been shown without that scene where he totally tries to rape Rand. That's fair. I think some fans (not talking about anyone here) get so focused on that scene that they miss the larger point about human nature. It's also really strange for Spock to be joking about it at the end of the episode. I love TOS, but I have no idea what they were thinking there.
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Nov 6, 2017 01:19
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's fair. I think some fans (not talking about anyone here) get so focused on that scene that they miss the larger point about human nature. It's also really strange for Spock to be joking about it at the end of the episode. I love TOS, but I have no idea what they were thinking there. Women like rapey types. Ha-ha. *actress gets raped, leaves show*
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Nov 6, 2017 01:34
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Now that I'm getting into the 5th season of Voyager I'm actually starting to like it. I normally hate holodeck episodes because it's just the characters playing in some period piece that doesn't matter, but Bride of Chaotica was genius. I think what made it so different is that the inner holodeck story was actually a sci-fi story itself. It wasn't just an anomaly that made the holodeck turn real for vague reasons to threaten the crew. It was aliens from another universe for whom the holodeck was real and the simulated weapons were lethal, and whom the crew (who were in no personal danger from the holodeck themselves, only from the aliens who were putting Voyager at risk by fighting back) had to help by finishing the game. So like it actually mattered and wasn't just Worf playing wild west sheriff for the day or w/e. All the scenes where Tom was explaining the holodeck scenario to Janeway & co so they could help him, and they were all rolling their eyes at ridiculous jargon in his space fantasy show were hysterical. Although it was tonally awkward because the entire thing was being played for laughs, even though the holodeck villains had actually murdered 50 of these sentient aliens but the crew doesn't give a poo poo. Your video game killed 50 people, that's kind of horrible.
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Nov 6, 2017 02:14
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Man Musk posted:Do you think it bothers some of the crewmembers on the USS Enterprise that they allow children onto the vessel?
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Nov 6, 2017 03:27
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Watching Birthright Part I. Picard just said Deep Space Nine 
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Nov 6, 2017 03:35
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