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Ratios and Tendency posted:Settlers are too expensive and I don't see any point in scaling costs either. The early game should be a land grab. it is. grabbing your enemies' land with archers 
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Nov 5, 2017 22:09
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The White Dragon posted:civ 5 did this (6 too?), they just freeze pop growth now. Also 4, and workers were also built with hammers+food in 4.
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Nov 5, 2017 22:52
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>play civ 5 >choose small continents >game generates just one big snakey continent
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Nov 5, 2017 22:53
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The White Dragon posted:it is. grabbing your enemies' land with archers I usually play peacenik zen India, wars of aggression are immoral 
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Nov 6, 2017 02:15
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The White Dragon posted:>play civ 5 When it does work, small continents is the best general game map imho, especially if you enjoy a little bit of naval action.
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Nov 6, 2017 07:59
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Some more CIV VI love.  A short AAR from a recently concluded PBEM game that took about half a year to complete.Spring Goon Game Taking a random leader, I ended up playing Gandhi and winning a religious victory, despite not originally intending to do that. I didn't even rush religion. But the circumstances conspired against me, as you will see. The first circumstance was that nobody was building Stonehenge so I though I may as well build it end received the second religion.  Here you see the early game. Me, Persia and Rome ended up next to each other. There's a narrow sea north from Persia, with Macedon on the other shore. Which means 4 players are roughly in a diamond shape close to each other. The remaining two players (Egypt and Germany) were on the eastern end of the continent, too far to be of consequence for us four in the early game. And by the time I reached them, they were already quite behind in technology, and ended up not playing a large role in the world's politics (sorry guys). So we'll focus on the four western players. I am positioned right in the middle of the continent, with plenty of space to expand, and basically blocking everyone's path to the east. West is crowded, though. From talking to Persia, I know he's surrounded by sea from all sides. He built only two cities with nowhere left to expand and he basically had to go to war. My early diplomacy was focused on avoiding war with him and diverting him elsewhere. In the end, Persia took Lisbon, then built a navy and attacked Alexander, which... well let's say didn't end well for him.  Turns out Alexander is ridiculously powerful! Soon he was conquering Persia instead. This made me and Rome nervous, we didn't want Alexander to conquer all of Persia because that would leave us with a very strong and very militaristic northern neigbour. We allied and declared war against Alexander, pushing him back. Poor Persia got caught in the middle of things. Sparda was reconquered by Rome and Macedonia several times, most of its population dying. Alexander's units with insane promotions and great general bonuses were tough to beat, and it took two nations to stop his conquest. After several turns, he agreed to peace, keeping only Lisbon. To be fair, both me and Rome were quite opportunistic in this war. Rome took the whole Persia for himself (suprise!), eliminating one player from the game. I mostly just skirmished with Alexander's units on the flank, not pushing forwards. Instead, I took Preslav, his allied city state on my eastern borders. Which means the four-side war resulted in everyone gaining something. Except poor Persia, of course. By this time, however, my Pacifism was the dominant world religion. Back at the beginning, I chose the Standing Stones pantheon (+2 faith per quarry), since I was surrounded by stone. I also allied the Kandy city state which gives you a relic every time you find a natural wonder, and +50 % faith per relic. This way, I got three relics, and then took the Reliquaries belief (Relics have triple yield of both Faith and Tourism.) This gave me nice +18 faith, +24 tourism per relic, for the income of +54 faith and +72 tourism per turn from relics only. Taking other faith-generating beliefs, I soon had a ridiculous faith income of +100 per turn, rising to +200 per turn by the end of the game. I was spamming apostles and buying great people left and right.  By mid-game (and mid-summer), this was the religious situation. One religion (Persian) was already eliminated, caught in the crossfire between Rome, Macedon, myself and our armies and missionaries. I eliminated another one (Egypt's) just because I could. Egypt only had two holy sites (and four cities in total) and a weak military so I was pretty sure he couldn't protest me converting his cities. He did fight a small religious war against me, and I did threaten to declare a proper war (sorry, Byzant!), but in the end he just couldn't keep up with my apostle spam and I converted him without resorting to (proper) violence. That left only mine and the Macedonian religion, with me already having quite an advantage. At this point, though, I wanted to go for a cultural victory instead. It was clear that if I started converting Alexander's cities, I would provoke a world war of everyone against me. Instead, I started building cultural wonders and buying great people. I was the leader in tourism, but Rome had some strong culture generation himself, so it would probably take some time to overwhelm him. I converted all of Roman and previously Persian cities (Rome didn't protest, following the religion himself) and then, having nothing to do with my apostles, send them to Macedonia anyway. I knew I was poking the bear but it was worth the try. I actually came very close to winning at this point, I think I was only missing an apostle and two to flip a city before Alexander managed to re-convert it. Anyway... Rome declared war on me, as expected. This war would last some 30 turns until the end of the game.  Alexander soon joined. Unbeknownst to him, I had already been sneaking up a navy all across the word.  Some time ago, I noticed neither Rome nor Alexander had access to coal, which would give me a huge naval advantage if I actually bothered to build a navy (I didn't have a single ship at that time). So I built three battleships and then sent them on a 10-turn journey across the world, hoping they would not be seen. By the time Rome and Macedonia declared war on me, the battleships were just arriving and quickly destroyed the Macedonian large, although still wooden, navy. Macedonia was then unable to ship units across the sea to help Rome, and the Macedonian-Indian border was well fortified so the land route wasn't really an option. My enemies couldn't join forces. Plus, by this point Alexander was lagging behind in technology. (He did eventually manage to upgrade to battleships and destroy my navy, but it was too little too late). This left me and Rome the two ones battling it out. Rome actually came very close to conquering my capital! He had tanks and I didn't but fortunately for me, he declared war only a turn before I was able to upgrade my elephants to tanks myself. Getting the oil to do that actually required me to build a settler and establish a new city just for the purposes of mining the single spot of oil I had access to. For several turns, I was anxious that Rome would declare war sooner. Had he gone to war two, three turns earlier, I think he would have won the war... and thus the game. But now, I stopped his advance in the very last minute using tank corps, artillery corps, and a ridiculously powerful machine gun that had about 105 or 110 strength thanks to various upgrades. This was a very fun war. There was a proper, almost unmoving frontline, and we were shelling each other and trying to find an opening. It felt like WWI-style trench warfare. Thing that swung the war in my favour were, I think: - Medics. I had two apostles with the Medic upgrade around. If my units were fortified and didn't move, they were able to heal all damage they took during the Roman turn. I'm not sure whether Rome realised I have medics because I think he kept attacking the fortified units, only for them to heal at the beginning of my turn. - Observation balloons. Had Rome had at least one, I think he'd conquer my capital. But he didn't, which meant he had to move his artillery in the 2-hex range of my capital, which in turn meant that my artillery, hiding right behind the capital and having the range of 3, could then shell his artillery. I made a priority of killing his artillery ASAP, and I think it helped me to hold the city. But yeah, Happy Peacetown almost fell but in the end, the communist Indian forces pushed the fascist Roman invaders out of their motherland:  Withdrawing his last two armies, Rome sued for peace. I was tempted to take it so I could focus on Alexander but then I noticed this:  Rome had some pillaged buildings in his cities. I figured this must be due to unhappy citizens and rebellions. He had just lost a war of aggression which he declared without a cassus belli, then lost quite a bit of units in foreign territory... plus this was against Gandhi, who gives his opponents double war weariness. So I didn't accept, and instead used my mobile units to pillage around his lesser protected areas to drive his war weariness up. I lost a tank corps in the process but I also killed an infantry army and pillaged several improvements which I figured was worth it. I'm not sure what Rome's war weariness was but it must have been crazy. I had all my cities on -2 to -4 happiness myself, and this was without me being the aggressor and fighting Gandhi. My capital had -10 penalty from war weariness, only kept in check by a national park and stadiums. (And Alexander actually had some barbarians spawning from unhappiness. Turns out even Alexander does receive war weariness against Gandhi!) With the Indo-Roman front well fortified on both sides and the war winding down, I swung most of my army north. Bypassing Alexander's well-fortified mountain passes, I took the longer route, conquered an outlying city and went on to his capital. My modern tank armies and upgraded artillery did the job and the city fell quickly:  Alexander sued for peace. My apostles, half of them travelling with my army, and the other half hiding in the sea, just a hex out of sight (see the minimap - you can spot them as the revealed bit of the fog of war), immediately rushed Macedonia. In two turns, it was converted and I won the game. ... Well. This was the most fun I've ever had playing civ! It's funny how most of the important bits happened in the very same spot of land, between my capital, Lisbon and the former Persia. Across centuries, people killed each other in the same places, without actually changing much of anything. If you have the time and patience to play PBEM, I heartily recommend it. It's challenging in a way that playing against the AI isn't. You really have to use all the tricks you have, including support units, good tactical positioning etc. Thanks to everyone who participated! I'll be starting a new PBEM game now 
markus_cz fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 14:18
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markus_cz posted:Some more CIV VI love. Thanks for the recap, it was a hell of a trip. Looking forward to the rematch... And to where the summer games may lead.
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Nov 6, 2017 14:39
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Minor correction: I (Persia) don't think I ever took Lisbon, Alexander took that sometime during the process of killing me. But yeah, I really should have gone for you or Trajan instead. Lesson learned (and put to good use in Summer Goon Game). Doing a lot better in that one so far.
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Nov 6, 2017 15:04
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If anyone's tempted by the AAR and wants to try PBEM (or have a rematch), I'm starting a new game. Come on in: Autumn Goon Gamepassword: goonfall What to expect: - A slow burning game that may take about half a year to finish. The pace is about one turn per day. The online speed gives 250 turns but games tend to end earlier. - A couple of minutes of playtime per day, which can rise to half an hour or more in later eras if you're in a massive war and spend a lot of time thinking about your every move. - The times when you receive your turn can vary but in most games, they tend to stabilise around certain times according to players“ individual schedules (in my case, I usually had the turns waiting for me in the morning, the Americans had them in their afternoons and evenings, I think.) - Greater challenge than the AI could ever pose. - Some light diplomacy. People sometimes talk on Steam to discuss strategy or alliances. Most of the time, it's pretty silent as you slowly play through the turns. What do you need: - All DLC. - Patience. The game takes a long time. The start can be a bit boring until you get t build a few cities and units, but I like starting the games from the very beginning so you get to choose everything including the starting city placement and first buildings. - A stable schedule that allows you to play almost every day in a somewhat predictable fashion. It's better if you're able to play the turns soon after you receive them without having to wait half a day to get to a computer. Vacations and weekends off do happen and are accepted (but if you can play on your vacation, please do! ), but it's better if the game has an otherwise stable pace.- More patience. Sometimes the game can stop for a couple of days or a week, and you need not to lose interest. (It helps if you're in several games at once  ).--- So yeah, let's do this again. Mac people welcome this time (if you have the patch, I don't know if it's out yet). I don't think we can expect many more patches before the assumed expansion so there shouldn't be that many post-patch hiatuses this time. I hope this doesn't bite me in the rear end.
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Nov 6, 2017 15:47
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In with Indonesia, because I want to try out one of the two new civs and I like their stuff better.
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Nov 6, 2017 16:17
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markus_cz posted:So yeah, let's do this again. Mac people welcome this time (if you have the patch, I don't know if it's out yet). I don't think we can expect many more patches before the assumed expansion so there shouldn't be that many post-patch hiatuses this time. I hope this doesn't bite me in the rear end. I really want to join, but Mac still doesn't have patch+DLC, and I'm getting really tired of Firaxis's release-engineering loving over non-Windows (to the point where I've started to put together a gaming rig so I can run Windows 10 on a computer that isn't my "getting poo poo done without yelling at my computer" box). The alternative would be to just not play Civ6, unfortunately.
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Nov 6, 2017 17:16
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Great write-up! I played a GMR game a year and a half ago and was never able to finish. Sucks because I was playing doing really well; had to hand it off because I was moving.
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Nov 6, 2017 17:29
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markus_cz posted:If anyone's tempted by the AAR and wants to try PBEM (or have a rematch), I'm starting a new game. Come on in: Hello there, I'm in (as Don Pigeon)!
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Nov 6, 2017 19:01
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Yeah, I was Egypt in that one. Me and Germany were off on the end of nowhere fighting off barbarian waves for a lot of the early game..and I'm still trying to break my Civ5 habits. So, I'm up for another go. 
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Nov 7, 2017 00:53
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Looks like all my games except for one pubbie one are currently stalled out so I will get in on this.
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Nov 7, 2017 04:28
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Only just now finishing my first play through of civ6. Planning to turn barbarians off next time, they are just so annoying in the unclaimed spaces.
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Nov 7, 2017 04:40
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Signed up for the last spot, I haven't done a game like this before, but I'm good to see it through! Going to just random my civ choice, as I'll always end up second guessing any choice either way.
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Nov 7, 2017 07:42
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Settlers are too expensive and I don't see any point in scaling costs either. The early game should be a land grab. I've always wanted to see what would happen if the if the anti-ics mechanic was changed from making more cities less and less productive to making more territory harder and harder to keep together. May expanding relatively easy and profitable but large empires would be hampered by having to expend more military might and effort just keeping themselves together at least in the early age. Historically accurate ie Rome, Alexander's empire, Persia, China. All space would be taken relatively early but empires that got too big too fast wouldn't just steamroll the rest of the game however as they would likely break up. I'm sure the more war-game oriented players would hate half their empire splitting off though.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:12
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That's exactly what the Civ4 mod RevoDCM does, it's great. I can't play without it even.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:19
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Also the original avalon hill board game. That civil war calamity.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:24
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Needing a Civ fix and poking around with old games and freeciv and stuff. I get the impression that Vox Populi is the way to go with Civ V? I always assumed Caveman 2 Cosmos for Civ IV was a unplayable joke of a mod. Confirm/deny?
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Nov 7, 2017 21:11
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Fintilgin posted:I get the impression that Vox Populi is the way to go with Civ V? Yes it's awesome
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Nov 7, 2017 21:55
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imo vox populi has some good features and some not so good features. i seem to recall happiness being a huge pain in the rear end. it also has that kitchen sink problem where there's just too much goddamn stuff and just looking at the city build menu is intimidating even after you've played it a number of times. the diplomacy screen is much improved, and they made trade thresholds visible so you always know exactly how much you need to give a computer player to complete the deal you want to make rather than stumbling blindly "i'll give you 7gpt and cotton if you declare war on napoleon." regardless of how visible trade prices are, the diplo AI is still a schizophrenic psychopath and will denounce you for having clicked Play Now! on the start screen. but that, i think, is maybe just something you can't fix, it's so hard-coded into the game's blood and bones that you can give it LUA therapy and dope it up to its eyes in mods, but it'll still try to smother you in your sleep.
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Nov 7, 2017 22:36
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Fintilgin posted:I always assumed Caveman 2 Cosmos for Civ IV was a unplayable joke of a mod. Confirm/deny? JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Yes it's awesome
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Nov 7, 2017 22:50
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Say I wanted to get Civilization IV. Should I get the complete edition, or are some expansions best avoided?
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Nov 7, 2017 23:04
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just get the complete edition. warlords adds the great general unit and like two leaderheads, it was primarily a scenario expac. beyond the sword adds in a ton of new features and integrates them pretty well. otoh if you can get vanilla + bts for cheaper than the whole complete edition, bts includes everything in warlords
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Nov 7, 2017 23:07
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Civ 4 goes on sale for like 5 bucks about four times a year. If you're going to install RevDCM (which is highly recommended) then buying through GOG will make your life a lot easier than buying through Steam.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:43
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History Rewritten is also a great Civ4 mod.
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Nov 8, 2017 06:05
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Fall From Heaven 2 for Civ 4.
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Nov 8, 2017 10:03
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OperaMouse posted:Fall From Heaven 2 for Civ 4. This. It's the fantasy 4X game I've always wanted and never seen done better.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:57
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Efexeye posted:what's that got to do with the price of tea in china Well there is a concept of Market Monopolies and 2K is one so.....
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Nov 9, 2017 01:21
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John F Bennett posted:That's exactly what the Civ4 mod RevoDCM does, it's great. I can't play without it even. It's so dumb. It's an idiotic monkey cheese system that there is literally no way to actually play organically except by creating a huge stack in your capital that you then use to conquer all the rebel city-states that branch off of your empire. It's useless non-engaging busy work. Games should have well defined mechanics that I as a player can engage with. It shouldn't be a some stupid idea of "too many cities = random rebellions"
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Nov 9, 2017 01:33
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Steam just pulled down a 186kb Civ IV patch. Anyone word on what it is? Map script fix maybe?
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Nov 9, 2017 03:26
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:It's so dumb. It's an idiotic monkey cheese system that there is literally no way to actually play organically except by creating a huge stack in your capital that you then use to conquer all the rebel city-states that branch off of your empire. It's useless non-engaging busy work. Yeah, random rebellions breaking apart your empire is actually a terrible mechanic that just about everyone hates. There are a lot better ways to control expansion that aren't so blatantly anti-fun.
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Nov 9, 2017 07:19
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It's fun when you conquer the core territory of a warmongering neighbor and the far flung remnants enter a civil war death spiral, though.
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Nov 9, 2017 10:58
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the best civ4 mod is Dune Wars
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Nov 9, 2017 11:50
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the best civ4 mod is 'deltree /y C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV'
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Nov 9, 2017 11:54
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markus_cz posted:... I had never built even a single Aerodome or medic in my 650+ hours of Civ 6 before our game--they've never been necessary. Whoops! If/when I play multiplayer again I'll be investing in these things more heavily. This game and war was stupid fun. Even the fascism vs. communism elements of our government made for some great dweebin' in my head. Roland Jones posted:Minor correction: I (Persia) don't think I ever took Lisbon, Alexander took that sometime during the process of killing me. But yeah, I really should have gone for you or Trajan instead. Lesson learned (and put to good use in Summer Goon Game). Doing a lot better in that one so far. Guess I shouldn't have quoted Thucydides to you  Well done in the summer game, surprised and totally hosed me up. Hope London is a prize worth fighting for!
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Nov 9, 2017 17:09
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TipTow posted:Guess I shouldn't have quoted Thucydides to you My decisions in Spring were really silly; I talked a lot to you and India, and as a result, felt bad about the prospect of fighting either of you. Then it turned out Alexander was to the north and I went, oh hey, there's someone I can kill without feeling bad. Then, well, we saw how that went. But yeah, every step of the way things made sense to me, then right before I was about to attack Alexander I realized "Wait, what the hell am I doing, how did I get here" but it was too late to stop. Then after some moderate early successes everything collapsed and you murdered me turns before I got my desperation settler, well, settled. As for Summer, thanks. I actually wasn't planning on going for you at first, and was serious about intending to just go west, but after the first border city you founded started to think I should probably be ready for conflict and started thinking of potential future plans. Then the second made me panic and think that you were going after me so I started doing everything in my power to be ready before that happened, before we finally talked and you told me you weren't planning on attacking after all. At which point it was like, okay, no rush now, but I am already building an army... (Also you got not one but two wonders I wanted, and additionally I figured if I let you live long enough to get redcoats I was hosed anyway.) And yeah, it dramatically improved my position. London is very, very nice. The rest of the game seems to be having very interesting things happening too.
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Nov 9, 2017 18:28
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Fintilgin posted:
I can also confirm this.
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Nov 9, 2017 19:25
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