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Serf: May 5, 2011

geek social fallacies

# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:55

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# ? May 9, 2024 19:42

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Can someone give me an example of rules that would work out better

# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:56

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Comrade Gorbash posted:

These rules are bad, and most of all seem to point to RPG.net trying to just solve this in one step by legislating new rules, and that's just a wrongheaded approach.

Frankly the model of exhaustive rules just doesn't work for properly moderating forums, especially with the way things are going. They really need to break away from the legalistic approach and have proper community guidelines, and made clear distinctions in regards to different categories of discussion. They're trying to avoid arbitrary moderation because that's just as chilling and lovely, but they've made the rules so labyrinthine they can't be enforced except arbitrarily.

One big problem is that RPGnet's core moderation philosophy is that slamming a lid down on drama is the highest priority, so people can get on with taking about elfgaming on all the other corners of the site. They don't care who is right or wrong, they just pull the plug on discussions that get heated or insulting or out of control. Keeping the peace is their first, last, and only responsibility.

Which is a legitimate enough model for moderation - except it makes RPGnet almost the exact wrong place to call anyone out for their lovely behavior or for applying pressure to companies/individuals to behave better. When your rule #1 is "Don't make waves" then you become a powerful force for the status quo. Which, again, is fine and legitimate if that's the way they want to run their forum.

But you can't do that and then also go on to claim that your site is some sort of progressive oasis which is safe and welcoming to all people of good will. Because it isn't, and by definition cannot be.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 20:57

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Plutonis posted:

Can someone give me an example of rules that would work out better

The current rules require a victim to out themselves in some way, I don't see the problem in it being like basically any other public forum where it's not a bannable offense to say 'yea I have some friends who've told me this is a serious issue' and then yea if someone wants to go 'yea I don't believe that' you can just have that conversation?

# ? Nov 10, 2017 21:02

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Serf posted:

geek social fallacies

Thanks.

In that case...

Halloween Jack posted:

No, no. They GSF'd their way into this mess, and they'll GSF their way out.

I think this may be overly pessimistic. There's definitely a long legacy of that and it's a major reason the rules look like they do. That, and the always bullshit Michael Jordan-esque "Republicans buy shoes too" approach. But at the same time we've seen individual mods break out of that. Hell one was quoted further up.

It's frustrating to see them vacillate back and forth between sticking to that old avoid controversy at all costs mode and actually doing something about it. Extremely frustrating. But there's clearly a tension there that can't hold, and I don't think it's a given which way it goes in the end.

FMguru posted:

One big problem is that RPGnet's core moderation philosophy is that slamming a lid down on drama is the highest priority, so people can get on with taking about elfgaming on all the other corners of the site. They don't care who is right or wrong, they just pull the plug on discussions that get heated or insulting or out of control. Keeping the peace is their first, last, and only responsibility.

Which is a legitimate enough model for moderation - except it makes RPGnet almost the exact wrong place to call anyone out for their lovely behavior or for applying pressure to companies/individuals to behave better. When your rule #1 is "Don't make waves" then you become a powerful force for the status quo. Which, again, is fine and legitimate if that's the way they want to run their forum.

But you can't do that and then also go on to claim that your site is some sort of progressive oasis which is safe and welcoming to all people of good will. Because it isn't, and by definition cannot be.

100% agree. Hell I'd say it's the core problem they have, and the one they need to recognize and address.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 21:04

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

sexpig by night posted:

The current rules require a victim to out themselves in some way, I don't see the problem in it being like basically any other public forum where it's not a bannable offense to say 'yea I have some friends who've told me this is a serious issue' and then yea if someone wants to go 'yea I don't believe that' you can just have that conversation?

That generally doesn't work when the popular kids can deflect any accusations? You can have a victim come forward and say this person did x, y, and z things to them, and that's a lot harder to deny unless the accused can provide some sort of valid response. But if someone not the victim instead says "I heard this guy did x, y, and z" then there's all sorts of opportunities for denial. You could accuse that person of having a grudge, or judge them on the basis of affiliation with enemies of their own community, or through association with a different bad thing, or so on. One of the first things Green Ronin's contractors did when discussion began about Suleiman's bad behavior was to accuse people like VLDarling of covering for John Morke because they were/are friends IRL. That's just how discourse basically works online, and you can brush almost anyone off with ad hominems where you tell people with a problem that you did this, or you posted there, or you liked that or them. Nuance doesn't really matter, when people can look at the accusations and counter-accusations and whoever looks the most superficially correct is the one that most people who aren't involved can agree with and feel good about themselves.

The important thing, I think, is to get in on that kind of behavior much as possible, because it's really effective and already the norm in most cases.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 22:41

LuiCypher: Apr 24, 2010; Today I'm... amped up!

Halloween Jack posted:

No, no. They GSF'd their way into this mess, and they'll GSF their way out.

Serf posted:

geek social fallacies

Suddenly the culture of Goonswarm Federation (GSF) makes a lot more sense.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 22:47

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

C. A. Suleiman posted a non-apology.

quote:

Hello, everyone.

My name is C.A. Suleiman, and if you�re only passing familiar with my situation, the short version is that I have stepped in it but good. But the fall is my doing: I chose my path and set my tread, and thus, the pitfall was always there, up ahead, waiting for me.

Let me start by saying that if you are a person � female, male, non-binary � and you were hurt or felt intimidated not just by anything I�ve said, but also by anything I didn�t say but definitely *should* have said, you have my deepest apologies. I see you, I hear you, and I promise I will continue to listen.

I also see and respect that boundaries vary from person to person, and that a man who is six-foot-two, with a goatee and eyes possessed of an intensity that others have called �alarming,� should not enter into first impressions with women laboring under the idea that their boundaries would be anything but broad, clearly defined, and observed closely.

In an appropriately cruel irony, it has recently become clear that this writer hasn�t always had the best choice of words when it comes to first impressions with certain women and men, and the fact that I�m not just a writer, but a person who expressly leads with compassion, makes it all the more unpalatable. I can and will do better.

I do not and would not ever set out to discomfit, let alone actively alarm, and for someone to come away from a conversation with me wondering if they�ve just been in the presence of a true danger or genuine threat to women, is one of the most intensely upsetting things I can imagine, and I say that as a writer of horror stories, as the son of a lifelong refugee, and as a former target of early-life abuse.

I unequivocally respect and love women, and I always have. My mom is the world�s greatest living poet, in my estimation, and I would not have a shred of the creative talent I possess � the very thing that has allowed me the opportunity to tell stories and make games for actual money for the last 18 years � if not for her. (My dad is pure rationalist and scientist, and perhaps I take after him more in certain respects.)

I have two amazing sisters, both of whom I adore and who love me for who I am, neither of whom tolerates my bullshit. Just like my friends don�t tolerate it, either, and yet somehow love me anyway.

But despite all of this, I have caused hurt. I have caused offense and I have caused fear, and the fact that it was unintended is secondary to the impact, to the fact that it happened at all. Please accept that my regret over these missteps is both sincere and transformative.

Clearly, I need to take a little time and tend to my own house. I�ve never been short on self-examination in the past, but it�s a reminder well taken that we should never slow down on all manner of self-examination, lest the changing times and tides outpace us and sweep us off our feet.

As such, I�m stepping back from work for a while. It looks like the projects I was working on will be in good hands moving forward, and that�s a welcome relief since it�s clear to me that I need to be focusing on getting my own act together.

My dad has been battling cancer this year, and with him coming home from the hospital this weekend, it appears we�re headed into that last stage, so I intend to dedicate much of my time to being there for him, for my sisters, and for my mother, who isn�t quite strong enough to will the sickness away from the love of her life, but who refuses to allow a fact so trivial to deter her.

With the man of our house settling in for his final ride, I know that the closest women in my life are going to need me. And I can�t think of anything else I should be doing more.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:03

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Dragging his dying father out and using him as a shield was a nice touch.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:08

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

quote:

and that a man who is six-foot-two, with a goatee and eyes possessed of an intensity that others have called �alarming,�

I've read that fanfic.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:10

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

Kai Tave posted:

I've read that fanfic.

I worked pretty hard on it thanks.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:11

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Some might say a man who stands a powerful 6'2'' with rippling abs and eyes as blue as the ocean, eyes that seem as though they can gaze straight into one's soul and divine their innermost desires, eyes that some might describe as "alarming" but others might call "captivating," some might say a man with a head of thick, full, sandy hair, silken to the touch, and an immaculately trimmed goatee, some might say a man with a chocolatey baritone voice that's been described by more than one person as "arousing," some might say

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:20

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

FMguru posted:

Dragging his dying father out and using him as a shield was a nice touch.

And his mother/sisters whom he will most assuredly be providing for now and deary me you sure don't want to impact his ability to get work in any way because of all these innocent people you'll be hurting.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:23

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

Kai Tave posted:

Some might say a man who stands a powerful 6'2'' with rippling abs and eyes as blue as the ocean, eyes that seem as though they can gaze straight into one's soul and divine their innermost desires, eyes that some might describe as "alarming" but others might call "captivating," some might say a man with a head of thick, full, sandy hair, silken to the touch, and an immaculately trimmed goatee, some might say a man with a chocolatey baritone voice that's been described by more than one person as "arousing," some might say

original character do not ~~steal~~accuse

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:24

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

C.A. Suleiman should be fired out of a cannon into the sun just for how completely loving trash-awful the writing in that non-apology is, that is seriously just some complete dogshit. I've written last-minute book reports that were better than that meandering garbage.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:29

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

my favorite part is the little 'well, the man of the house is dying and I have to be there for the women in my life...my female family...yep three strong women, all great...better than me even...great women I love'.

Like, he pulled a straight up Women Respecter to try to deflect, it's amazingly poo poo and of course his friends are falling over themselves to say 'my god they HAVE to forgive you now or they're huge bitches!' This piece of poo poo will learn nothing and go right back to abusing people.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:40

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

quote:

I have two amazing sisters, both of whom I adore and who love me for who I am, neither of whom tolerates my bullshit. Just like my friends don’t tolerate it, either, and yet somehow love me anyway.

But despite all of this, I have caused hurt. I have caused offense and I have caused fear, and the fact that it was unintended is secondary to the impact, to the fact that it happened at all.

Despite my joking self-awareness about my (extremely handsome) poo poo, I accidentally overcame some people's boundaries with my unnerving, overwhelming charisma. Sorry!

:jerkbag:

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:40

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

I'd never seen someone try to work their dating site profile into a denial of any real wrongdoing for sexual harassment before but I guess that's 2017 for you.

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:43

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

ladies. I'm so sorry that while being a sexy, intense, passionate, man who many have described as a 'sex golem' you may have felt uncomfortable with me. Have I mentioned I love my mom?

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:47

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

He will get sex therapy for a couple of weeks and everything will be fine again

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:48

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

sexpig by night posted:

ladies. I'm so sorry that while being a sexy, intense, passionate, man who many have described as a 'sex golem' you may have felt uncomfortable with me. Have I mentioned I love my mom?

What's the challenge rating on a Sex Golem, and what happens if you cast Incarnate Construct on it?

# ? Nov 10, 2017 23:56

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Kurieg posted:

What's the challenge rating on a Sex Golem

CR 69

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:01

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Kurieg posted:

What's the challenge rating on a Sex Golem, and what happens if you cast Incarnate Construct on it?

the CR for a sex golem is either incredibly manageable and fun for everyone involved or far too out of bounds to be used in your campaign.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:08

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

sexpig by night posted:

the CR for a sex golem is either incredibly manageable and fun for everyone involved or far too out of bounds to be used in your campaign.

And it's totally not the golem's fault if you're not able to use it in your campaign but he's sorry regardless, as he's respectful of all campaigns.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:20

Simian_Prime: Nov 6, 2011; When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

Kurieg posted:

What's the challenge rating on a Sex Golem, and what happens if you cast Incarnate Construct on it?

Mods requesting name change to Sex Golem plz thnx

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:20

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Pleasure Golems are CR1 in the Book of Erotic Fantasy

Your guess is as good as mine as to how Incarnate Construct works on them, as I don't think the spell was created with sentient constructs in mind

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:24

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

I'm kissing my fingertips like a cartoon chef at the idea of "you can relate actions that a person took" being called out as a limited, special exception to "you cannot attack people".

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:32

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

I'm imagining incarnate pleasure golems reacting somewhat like this:

:nws:

https://www.sexylosers.com/characters/dutch-wife-fairy/ :nws:

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:33

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Onagholem

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:49

MachineIV: Feb 28, 2017

Mors Rattus posted:

C. A. Suleiman posted a non-apology.

That's so weird. One time he walked into a panel I was participating in. I got up and walked out.

I could have sworn he was shorter than me.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 00:59

Tendales: Mar 9, 2012

To be fair; if there's one thing that RPG folk are unfamiliar with, it's writing functional rules.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 01:00

MachineIV: Feb 28, 2017

MachineIV posted:

That's so weird. One time he walked into a panel I was participating in. I got up and walked out.

I could have sworn he was shorter than me.

Then again, how could I ever hope to remember the real details of the situation?

# ? Nov 11, 2017 01:11

Rhandhali: Sep 7, 2003; This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...; Grimey Drawer

I went to look up who this CA Suleiman person was and someone flagged his wikipedia entry for deletion. Reason: Non-notable designer

# ? Nov 11, 2017 01:58

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Rhandhali posted:

I went to look up who this CA Suleiman person was and someone flagged his wikipedia entry for deletion. Reason: Non-notable designer

What? But he's 6'2" and very charismatic! Unlike all those other developers. That's notable!

# ? Nov 11, 2017 02:01

Leraika: Jun 14, 2015; Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

I have never seen someone fellate themselves so hard in anything, much less an apology letter.

Jesus christ.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 03:05

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Leraika posted:

I have never seen someone fellate themselves so hard in anything, much less an apology letter.

Jesus christ.

between this and CK's 'apology' where he fuckin plugs things it's been a fantastic day for garbage apologies.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 05:36

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

sexpig by night posted:

between this and CK's 'apology' where he fuckin plugs things it's been a fantastic day for garbage apologies.

I forsee more garbage apologies tomorrow, too

# ? Nov 11, 2017 05:44

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Nihilarian posted:

I forsee more garbage apologies tomorrow, too

Gorge Takei's gonna say something like 'yea he was dressed like a slut' and just completely destroy any ability I have to have celeb heroes.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 05:46

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

sexpig by night posted:

Gorge Takei's gonna say something like 'yea he was dressed like a slut' and just completely destroy any ability I have to have celeb heroes.

What? *google*

Oh no.

OH NO.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 05:55

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# ? May 9, 2024 19:42

Peas and Rice: Jul 14, 2004; Honor and profit.

Bedlamdan posted:

What? *google*

Oh no.

OH NO.

Yeah, gently caress it, I'm done.

# ? Nov 11, 2017 05:58

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