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HFX posted:This is why I hate the average T9 and T10 players. It really does feel like average player quality changes for the worse around tier eight.
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Nov 11, 2017 05:09
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It's just that their impact on being good and bad becomes visibility wider.
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Nov 11, 2017 13:35
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jownzy posted:It's just that their impact on being good and bad becomes visibility wider. Its the combination of a ton of ships becoming more powerful at T9 or receiving gadgets to make them more versatile when combined with players ability that you get whatever high tiers are. BBs become even more passive because so many of the DDs have real and very good torpedoes now. CAs can be straight deleted more so than ever before because of the accuracy increases and various other very dangerous CAs as well. DDs now have to deal with radar from several sources (which involves paying tons of attention to MM and your minimap), Hydro from CAs/BBs/DDs, and a big jump in concealment/DPM. That's my dumb opinion on it though.
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Nov 11, 2017 17:10
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On a whim I started climbing the US carrier tree and while I'm really liking it so far, there are some things I want to ask. 1. Is air combat EXTREMELY RNG heavy? Sometimes my squadrons will do quite well against equal tier Japanese opposition (which I assume is supposed to be how it goes considering they have numbers, so I should have quality, right?) but occasionally I'll just get loving murdered. Sometimes when I'm fighting another Bogue, my planes will murder theirs 8-1, other times I'll get a reversal of that even if we're fighting over friendly ships where I should be getting a benefit from their AA as well. 2. Am I right in assuming the default loadout for the Bogue is the best? Going with 2 fighter squadrons and just one dive bomber squadron seems like a bad idea (although if I could just take the enemy CV's planes out of the game entirely pretty fast, that might not be terrible...) as does going without any fighter protection at all? 3. Considering I'm in one of the slowest ships in the game, I'm sometimes having trouble maneuvering. I don't want to be the CV player who sits in the furthest map corner, but I've also learned to be extremely cautious of roaming destroyers. Back when I had a dive bomber squadron in my Langley, I could hold that in reserve and use it to defend myself, but now I'm so slow and defenseless that getting spotted is a death sentence. Combine this with pubbies and their inability to fire at a DD casually sailing through their lines and it's occasionally very frustrating. Any tips on this?
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Nov 11, 2017 18:29
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Der Shovel posted:On a whim I started climbing the US carrier tree and while I'm really liking it so far, there are some things I want to ask. Don't play CVs
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Nov 11, 2017 18:42
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1-1 Bogue is probably the least bad loadout. The AS 2-0-1 is rear end Cancer, but if I were to move into the Bogue would probably how I would play it. Granted the XP is probably complete garbage but you might be able to farm clear skies. In regards to plane murder it might be a case of your fighters already being pinged with damage or vice versa. Additionally, with a 10pt commander you get an extra fighter to the squadron which can tilt the balance fairly significantly. From memory air combat is not RNG based. Both sets of planes (in a click fight) will deal x amount of damage based upon # of planes, plane type, and commander skill (lower tier aircraft can receive 10% DPS per level difference). The other thing that could occur is in a double carrier game the T6 carriers can strafe your poo poo 
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Nov 11, 2017 18:47
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Heartcatch posted:It's a game where people can fail to the top, HFX. You've surely encountered this in tanks as well. It is way easier ( or was way easier ) to carry in tanks than in boats, with a few very specific exceptions.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:12
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Der Shovel posted:On a whim I started climbing the US carrier tree and while I'm really liking it so far, there are some things I want to ask. 1. Yes. Planes don't have health, instead every time they fire they have a given chance of killing an enemy plane. AA is the same way. When you don't have the alt attack fighter combat is very random, but not random enough that your Bogue fighters should ever lose to Zuiho fighters (but on the other side, even if your Bogue fighters did lose to Zuiho fighters it's unlikely you did anything wrong). 2. Probably. The strike loadout is a bad idea because probably 75% of carriers you meet at tier 5 are air superiority bogues, and the air superiority loadout doesn't do enough damage to win games. 3. Pubs are bad, but usually if you pay attention to the map you can predict where the enemy DD will come from and drive away.
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Nov 11, 2017 19:25
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James Garfield posted:1. Yes. Planes don't have health, instead every time they fire they have a given chance of killing an enemy plane. AA is the same way. When you don't have the alt attack fighter combat is very random, but not random enough that your Bogue fighters should ever lose to Zuiho fighters (but on the other side, even if your Bogue fighters did lose to Zuiho fighters it's unlikely you did anything wrong). This is wrong. Every plane has HP. It is literally listed in game. Every plane does DPS. Every AA does DPS. When DPS tick from plane and AA exceed HP airplane dies. It is literally the least RNG part of the game. Edit: For example I still seal club in a Langley. A full health Squad of fighters has 6 x 819 or 4,918 total HP. The Hosho has 4 x 990 for a total of 3,960 HP. You then have 28 DPS vs 35 DPS. Which means all things being equal in a straight up fight with no other DPS you have 140 vs 141 seconds for both squads to be wiped. However, when you take the tier skill and the +1 fighter for having a 10pt captain the Langley will solo a Hosho every....loving....time IF there is no other AA around. With the changes the Langley has never been easier to play. Get the enemy fighter squad into a click fight over neutral territory. You will win. Return and re-arm fighters (or shoot bombers if you can get some of them first then re-arm when you see the Hosho's 2nd fighter wave). Kill the 2nd fighter wave in another click war....if you're a full 7 fighters with most of their HP you will win even over enemy AA (except Texas and a few other t5s). From there you can just do whatever. Since you can't strafe or aim it's easy to chase his poo poo around with your fighters while setting auto drops to remove poo poo from the game. rex rabidorum vires fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 21:03
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rex rabidorum vires posted:This is wrong. Every plane has HP. It is literally listed in game. Every plane does DPS. Every AA does DPS. When DPS tick from plane and AA exceed HP airplane dies. It is literally the least RNG part of the game. Plane health is not tracked. Fighters and AA guns have a set rate of fire, and every time they fire there's a given chance of shooting down a plane (like if it's a 100 dps gun that fires every second, shooting at a 1000 HP plane, you'd have a 10% chance to kill the plane each tick). There is no damage tracking, if the plane does not die then nothing happens.
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Nov 11, 2017 21:16
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James Garfield posted:Plane health is not tracked. Fighters and AA guns have a set rate of fire, and every time they fire there's a given chance of shooting down a plane (like if it's a 100 dps gun that fires every second, shooting at a 1000 HP plane, you'd have a 10% chance to kill the plane each tick). There is no damage tracking, if the plane does not die then nothing happens. *double checks wiki* holy poo poo it is this insanely retarded. My apologies.
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Nov 11, 2017 21:44
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rex rabidorum vires posted:*double checks wiki* holy poo poo it is this insanely retarded. My apologies. This is one of the reasons I hate playing carriers. Stepping into an aa bubble is an unknown. While unlikely, if rng gets stuck and rolls high, you could lose all your planes to something like a nikolai and its contingent of marines pointing their aks into the sky. This is why fighter strafing is so important. Click fights are purely rng. Strafes have a fixed power to them you know and can use. Wargaming has yet to figure this out in any of their games. A weaker gun that can bullseye every target will still be favored because you have a known quantity what'll happen when you left click. If it just sprays around, that is ok too if the volume is there. Carriers don't have that volume of fire. Instead, the focus is on dive/torpedo bombers because you know what'll happen if you pre-aim correctly. You don't know what'll happen if you click a fighter group. However, you also don't know what'll happen to any of your flights if they step into an aa bubble either. Sometimes, I wonder how different carrier play would be if loadouts was based on hangar capacity with infinite plane refits. I mean, every other weapon in the game has an infinite supply. However, carriers are the only one that can become a pure deadweight to their time if rng fucks their plane count down correctly (some will be bad play too).
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Nov 11, 2017 22:21
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:It is way easier ( or was way easier ) to carry in tanks than in boats, with a few very specific exceptions. It is a lot easier because you have more precise control in tanks compared to boats. The ease of control and the importance of terrain compared to boats is the major difference for carrying. On the other hand, they removed cross-team chat in tanks so you can't actively taunt the enemy team while dismantling them anymore.
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Nov 11, 2017 23:13
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Der Shovel posted:On a whim I started climbing the US carrier tree and while I'm really liking it so far, there are some things I want to ask. *Although it's widely regarded as cancerous, 201 Bogue is by far the strongest loadout. Going AS in further tiers will be drat near mandatory because you'll face the far more flexible IJN CVs T6+, and then hit the T7 wall as the otherwise awful Ranger. The XP isn't that bad; plane kills are fairly generously rewarded. *Get out of the Bogue as soon as you can. You'll want a CV with manual aiming functions (straffing especially) as soon as possible, and the bogue sort of forms bad habits because #wargaming. *Don't go strike spec in US CVs unless you're in a tryhard div, really (really) good, or in T9+. You'll be a complete liability against everything but other strike spec US CVs, because even a single squad of fighters in the IJN strike spec will push your poo poo in and strike just as hard or harder than you. *Be a dick. Hover fighters over DDs, spot stealth-oriented CAs (that aren't a danger to your planes, be careful about Clevelands especially and be wary of Nurembergs or Budy Buttcheeks), and anyone else trying to pull an ambush. *Stay behind the BB contingent as best you can. It can be tempting to isolate behind an island, but it's usually better to be spotted and have pubbie fodder to draw/return fire than it is to be alone against that angry Gnevny you've been spotting the whole match. Watch your detection range and learn to make a good decision as to when to prioritize concealment or friendly cover. *Once past the Bogue, there's no shame in using coop and scripted missions to grind the xp to outfit your ship, and the scripted missions are especially decent xp and practice. It's a lot less frustrating when you're going into pvp with a full kit and you won't have to waste FXP.
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Nov 12, 2017 04:50
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Mauzeraut posted:*Although it's widely regarded as cancerous, 201 Bogue is by far the strongest loadout. Going AS in further tiers will be drat near mandatory because you'll face the far more flexible IJN CVs T6+, and then hit the T7 wall as the otherwise awful Ranger. The XP isn't that bad; plane kills are fairly generously rewarded. The only reason this might even possibly be the best loadout for Bogue right now is due to the removal of manual drop/strafing at T5. Should they add them back, 1/1/0 is the unquestionably stronger loadout. Even without those I'm not entirely convinced 2/0/1 is stronger. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 05:35
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James Garfield posted:Plane health is not tracked. Fighters and AA guns have a set rate of fire, and every time they fire there's a given chance of shooting down a plane (like if it's a 100 dps gun that fires every second, shooting at a 1000 HP plane, you'd have a 10% chance to kill the plane each tick). There is no damage tracking, if the plane does not die then nothing happens. Sort of but not really. AA damage is what is random, not plane death. Planes still die once they reach 0 HP, but based on how quickly the random spread of AA damage downed a plane, the consecutive rolls of AA are weighted to slow down or speed up the next AA damage spreads. If a DD pops off a plane in the first AA burst with an set of upper limit AA values, the next number of rolls will have low AA values until the probability meets up. Of course, this gets really wonky when you are dealing with fighter v fighter situations, or against high tier US CAs popping off Defensive Fire, as their high rolls can kill multiple planes in one go. Plane health is only tracked when they are actively taking damage from something. The moment they stop taking damage, everything is reset. Also note... plane health is against each player. 2 ship auras will each be depleting from different plane HP pools, unique to their ship only. So yeah. :wargaming: and all that. Edit: Also, DPS on the AA gun is literally damage per second, but not every AA gun fires once every second. For instance, the 5 inch DP guns on many, many US ships fire much less frequently, so their actual damage when they fire is a LOT higher than the listed AA value, just ticking far less frequently. This is why US AA is such a pain in the rear end for CV players... against the higher tiered US CAs and BBs (and the Cleveland/Atlanta) they have a host of these 5inch DP guns with extremely high burst damage at extreme ranges. Your plane can hover in for just a moment, and if they get a good damage roll... pop goes a plane! Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 07:27
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Hazdoc posted:Plane health is only tracked when they are actively taking damage from something. The moment they stop taking damage, everything is reset. Also note... plane health is against each player. 2 ship auras will each be depleting from different plane HP pools, unique to their ship only. So yeah. :wargaming: and all that. I'm fairly sure this is a false claim Wargaming America made early on and took back - when they say "plane health is reset when they are taking damage and plane health is different for each enemy" they mean that planes do not have health tracking and kills are taken from a probability distribution with the same mean. The other thing you mention with damage being reduced if you kill a plane early is plausible and very :wargaming:, but statistically it's not really different from the simpler way. Even if the official wiki didn't say there's no health tracking, it's possible (if very unlikely, but I've done it) to kill a plane in the first few seconds with low tier DD machine gun AA, and if AA works as you describe that should literally never happen. The part about reload rates is definitely real though.
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Nov 12, 2017 08:31
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James Garfield posted:I'm fairly sure this is a false claim Wargaming America made early on and took back - when they say "plane health is reset when they are taking damage and plane health is different for each enemy" they mean that planes do not have health tracking and kills are taken from a probability distribution with the same mean. If it truly were a function of % chance planes die in the aura, then we'd have videos eventually of a midway flying a plane over a kagero and losing 6 planes in the span of a minute. It's all a matter of probability. But we don't... because its not a % chance to down planes.
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Nov 12, 2017 09:45
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Hazdoc posted:If it truly were a function of % chance planes die in the aura, then we'd have videos eventually of a midway flying a plane over a kagero and losing 6 planes in the span of a minute. It's all a matter of probability. But we don't... because its not a % chance to down planes. ...You mean like losing a fighter off a Saipan within ~1-2 seconds of wandering into the AA of a low tier Soviet DD (it was either a Gnevny or Ognevoi, back when they were the T5 & 6)? Because I've had that happen, and their DPS shouldn't be even remotely high enough to do that, regardless of how the damage is distributed between planes in the squadron.
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Nov 12, 2017 10:26
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Heartcatch posted:It is a lot easier because you have more precise control in tanks compared to boats. Invulnerability to incoming fire is also a thing in tanks, due to super thick armour, and a much finer ability to rapidly adjust position and direction; and entirely different and less effective HE mechanics. Some vehicles can just park in a spot and essentially never die, and with a number of maps that's a guaranteed draw at minimum. In contrast, botes only has semi effective armour through angling that has a chance of deflecting, rather than a guarantee, along with much greater difficulty in making minor adjustments; HE shells that never really end up worse than 'effective' due different mechanics, and fire; and no draws, or the existence of crossfire covered chokepoints.
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Nov 12, 2017 11:25
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Lord Koth posted:...You mean like losing a fighter off a Saipan within ~1-2 seconds of wandering into the AA of a low tier Soviet DD (it was either a Gnevny or Ognevoi, back when they were the T5 & 6)? Because I've had that happen, and their DPS shouldn't be even remotely high enough to do that, regardless of how the damage is distributed between planes in the squadron. One plane != the whole squad.
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Nov 12, 2017 20:19
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Hazdoc posted:If it truly were a function of % chance planes die in the aura, then we'd have videos eventually of a midway flying a plane over a kagero and losing 6 planes in the span of a minute. It's all a matter of probability. But we don't... because its not a % chance to down planes. You have slightly over one plane kill per four games in your Minekaze. Minekaze has 14 dps against a plane immediately above it. The lowest durability plane in the game is a stock Langley fighter with 600. If AA worked the way you think it does, your Minekaze would literally never kill a plane in under ~30 seconds from starting to fire. Not "all a matter of probability," strictly impossible. A tier 5 fighter not hovering immediately over you would take four minutes before it even had a chance of dying. Also developer posts and the Wargaming wiki contradict you. e: Hazdoc posted:One plane != the whole squad. You don't understand how probability works. T6 ognevoi has 48 dps total; stock Saipan fighters have 1910 durability. Even if you give the ognevoi every upgrade possible it takes 20 seconds for the probability of killing a Saipan fighter not to be identically zero. I'm not even counting range either. You think that hit points are tracked because there's no video of a midway losing 6 planes to a kagero in a minute, but AA (and fighters, and bomber tail gunners) routinely does things that are explicitly not possible with hit point tracking. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 20:54
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I can’t quite figure out the point of Kidd. Can someone explain to me why anyone would by this other than a collector?
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Nov 12, 2017 23:34
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I bought one because I love US DDs and only have a Gearing and Clemson otherwise. Also I'm a huge whale. Sometimes I wish I had just never progressed past the Benson but this is OK too. edit: VVV also I hate hate HATE carriers. MrKatharsis fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 13, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 23:51
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Plane murdering?
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Nov 12, 2017 23:59
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ZombieLenin posted:I can’t quite figure out the point of Kidd. Can someone explain to me why anyone would by this other than a collector? The health pool, heal, AA, and gunpower make it easily the best cap contesting DD. This thing does low damage to cruisers and BBs but it can certainly win games through playing objectives like a motherfucker. Plus it has cancer-tier AA.
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Nov 13, 2017 00:11
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James Garfield posted:Also developer posts and the Wargaming wiki contradict you. https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/53o3t2/sub_octavian_na_forums_qa_20_sept_2016/ quote:Once per "tick" which is currently around 2 seconds. Uh...let me explain how "ticks" work. https://forum.worldofwarships.ru/to...0%BD%D0%B5-old/ Google Translate posted:Aircraft in battle do not have their strength or survivability, there is only a squadron and the ratio of whole and downed planes in it. For example, if a squadron of 6 aircraft was attacked and survived in full force, it does not "remember" the damage, in fact, there is no damage at all - just planes are knocked down with a certain probability at a certain rate. the TL;DR is basically that it's probability based, but the more rolls you do the higher the chance of a shoot-down grows, until it hits the 90% cap. This is not the same as having HP, because while there's a ceiling on how much AA fire a plane can take, there is no floor; you theoretically have a chance to shoot down a plane on your first tick (and every tick after) no matter your AA stats, whereas with an HP system this wouldn't be possible if you have poo poo AA.
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Nov 13, 2017 00:23
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ZombieLenin posted:I can’t quite figure out the point of Kidd. Can someone explain to me why anyone would by this other than a collector? I killed an entire Essex strike group when it tried to chase me off a cap with it, before it even got to drop on me Shits nuts. It has half the AA DPS of my minotaur under defensive AA. Polyakov fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Nov 13, 2017 |
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Nov 13, 2017 01:44
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Flamuu had the misfortune of having this guy on his team playing a Midway. His stats are too good to not share with the thread. https://wows-numbers.com/player/542713440,g_pohl76/
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Nov 13, 2017 22:19
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Ok clan wars people especially DUNKN: Last equipment slot on Montana - do I use the rof upgrade (-traverse) or the dispersion upgrade? Discuss
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Nov 13, 2017 23:54
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Lakedaimon posted:Ok clan wars people especially DUNKN: I would say Accuracy because it's like half again the bonus of everyone else's and your goal is pretty much always "delete cruisers" and frequently they're pointing their bow at you in hopes you'll miss most of your shots.
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Nov 13, 2017 23:56
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Is there a way to have Clan control transferred? We still have a few active in BANT, but none that are officers.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:05
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RescueFreak posted:Is there a way to have Clan control transferred? We still have a few active in BANT, but none that are officers. We have 2 spots open in UNCUT it looks like and we have a bunch of bonuses unlocked
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Nov 14, 2017 00:06
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El Disco posted:Flamuu had the misfortune of having this guy on his team playing a Midway. His stats are too good to not share with the thread.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:26
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Victor Surge posted:We have 2 spots open in UNCUT it looks like and we have a bunch of bonuses unlocked Applied.
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Nov 14, 2017 00:47
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Wolfy posted:He was an unbelievable mountain of salt today. Still though, how can someone be that bad at this game and spend so much money on premiums. Lol you must be new to all this. We have the world to show you and my what sights you'll see 
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Nov 14, 2017 15:30
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Wolfy posted:He was an unbelievable mountain of salt today. Still though, how can someone be that bad at this game and spend so much money on premiums. You haven't played WG games long enough have you? Salt comes with experience. The only people who aren't salty are either bad, or their livelihood depends on it.
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Nov 14, 2017 15:42
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The Belfast continues to be a pain in the rear end. I can never, ever hit those things when they're in smoke, especially if I don't have a spotter plane. I must be lining the crosshair up wrong, the shots never connect. They just sit in the smoke and kill me. I've taken to avoiding them altogether because they're just not worth the effort of dealing with unless you've got a good ship for ruining their poo poo.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:16
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The Indy is probably one of my favorites because its ability to slap Belfasts is glorious. Lol you parked in smoke and your DD hosed off. *Loads AP and pops radar...farms citadels*
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Nov 15, 2017 00:05
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I still can't Iowa properly. I think I've won perhaps two games with mine. Even granting that pubbies are bad, I've gotta be doing something wrong.
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Nov 15, 2017 01:44
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