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Patch just went live on PS4
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Nov 16, 2017 13:22
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I'm still mad that Unity was such a gently caress up that the best gameplay feature it introduced - coop missions - were buried together with the game.
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Nov 16, 2017 13:36
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PC players: Did you guys remap any of the controls? The shift+click for heavy attacks seems a little awkward to me, but the game freaks out when I tried to rebind most buttons because it supposedly conflicts with other things or just flat out doesn't work. I started with KB+mouse, then swapped over to the controller because I felt like it'd work a little better... then I did part of a quest that involved a glowing bow and shooting a target that moved around a lot. Died twice before I gave up and used the mouse for that quest. I'm bad and old and haven't used a controller since like Goldeneye, so stick aiming is something I am awful at.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:33
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It felt weird to me for a while but I just stuck with it and got used to it.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:36
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The Lone Badger posted:Heavy Blunt weapons are... kinda lethal They're really drat satisfying to whack things with. I'm a heavy blade guy for life, though. They're just a little bit faster while still being really satisfying to use, and that makes all the difference for me. I really gotta upgrade that legendary heavy blade I haven't used in a while.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:36
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The pelvis crushing animation on the heavy blunt kill combo is terrifying. The first time I saw it, I was like "Ha, it's a dick smack" but then I realized hitting that hard with something that heavy would just pulverize the entire pelvis into a mess of shards. I really hope they're dead before that point.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:38
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HORMELCHILI posted:It really isnt an improvement though, and it isnt just “some things” almost every single system in the game and the way they work together is cribbed from tw3. The only difference is the stealth design being ripped from mgsv. Yes there are some qol improvements but nothing outside of the way all games have qol improvements over games that came out a few years back I don't remember W3 well enough to really compare but the idea that the Witcher was innovative in its systems is pretty hilarious, as the game is literally an E-European RPG, hardly a genre known for appreciation of novel gameplay innovations. Palpek posted:We've been talking about that in this thread too though, how the systems (outside of stealth and bow combat) were taken wholesale from TW3 often down to the smallest details to a ridiculous degree. It's not just your feeling. It doesn't really bother me as I think it's good because TW3 owned and I hope more devs copy it. However, there will always be people who don't agree. I'd actually love to see some of the qol features that this game built on top of TW3 brought into TW3 like indicating that there's a quest nearby or the auto-travel options or if your boat breaks down a random peasant will come out of nowhere on one for your convenience or the horse not reacting to terrain geometry as strictly etc. Like, what are these areas of overlap between them?
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Nov 16, 2017 14:52
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The comparison is pointless anyway. Witcher is a game about player choice, dialogue, fantasy monsters, advanced crafting and gwent. AssOrg is none of that. Some mechanics are similar, like Origins having a crafting system, but the two games occupy entirely different parts of my mind.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:59
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I very much want to play Witcher 3 again now, but I think I should wait a while, because not being able to climb things is going to feel very restrictive coming right off of AC Origins.HORMELCHILI posted:It really isnt an improvement though, and it isnt just “some things” almost every single system in the game and the way they work together is cribbed from tw3. The only difference is the stealth design being ripped from mgsv. Yes there are some qol improvements but nothing outside of the way all games have qol improvements over games that came out a few years back There is definitely a lot of Witcher 3 influence, but I don't see the "stealth ripped from MGSV" thing. All of this game's stealth mechanics feel like a continuation of things started in AC3 (hiding in tall grass) and Unity (being able to manually enter stealth mode to crouch). If anything, MGSV took notes from Assassin's Creed. I also think the game improved on a few Witcher 3 things. Combat feels better, for one thing, though I suspect that's because they were trying to ape Souls more than Witcher 3 with their combat, right down to the default control scheme and the shield parries. And there are some nice quality-of-life improvements with mounts (like how your mount will run alongside you if you summon it while running) and general traversal. But it doesn't live up to Witcher 3 in quest design, obviously, and like Black Griffon pointed out, it's also not a game about roleplaying and dialog choice and stuff. Anyway I don't think you're wrong, they absolutely looked to Witcher 3 for inspiration, I just think you're overstating the degree to which the game's systems come from one particular game.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:06
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Man the game just falls apart in what I assume are the last couple of story missions All of a sudden Cleopatra screwed us over and this guy named Flavius is the main villain and unless I wasn't paying attention Bayek goes FLAVIUS YOU MONSTER like he had been a constant thorn on his side instead of going Flavius huh? Bwah? And then the game sends me to an entirely new fourth of the map and tells me I can take out the jackal or Flavius and then I wandered off to this intimidating looking army camp filled to the brim with enemies but I just ghosted it and snuck into the boss arena where after resetting once because the game glitched and Flavius vanished from existence I assassinated him and bing bang boom an eagle's skull Forrest Gumped itself into being the logo for a millenia spanning cadre of assassins and then some bullshit present stuff and the game keeps going I know it's on me for rushing directly to that one guy but it felt like the game was rushing me
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Nov 16, 2017 15:22
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Black Griffon posted:The comparison is pointless anyway. Witcher is a game about player choice, dialogue, fantasy monsters, advanced crafting and gwent. AssOrg is none of that. Some mechanics are similar, like Origins having a crafting system, but the two games occupy entirely different parts of my mind. Yeah. The left peanut and the right peanut
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Nov 16, 2017 15:23
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Of course that TW3 didn't invent RPG mechanics, open world mechanics, discovering locations or the workings of its combat and nobody is saying that it did. However like every other game TW3 implemented those systems in a specific way - the devs made hundreds/thousands of choices on how things actually work in TW3, how the systems translate to moment-to-moment gameplay. AC:O directly used a lot of those specific implementations and choices. The way traversing the gameworld feels (which is an entire universe of its own), the way the horse and the boat mechanics work, the implementation of question marks and sidequests, the structure of the gameworld, how loot is placed and divided, the bandit camps and dens with the exact enemy hierarchy in them, the horse combat, the basic concept of the regular combat etc. Then there are tons of little decisions and details like the speed limit when you're in towns, the few "notification boards" in the gameworld (although they don't have the TW3 significance), the way the music reacts to gameplay, the way clues are placed in investigation areas, Bayek commenting on the weather etc. Just as the other poster mentioned these are just some examples, the list goes on and on to a point that I don't really want to keep going with it because you either get something that is totally self-evident to me or not and that's that, we don't have to agree. The process of implementing gameplay systems during game development isn't random, the way every interactive little part is designed needs conscious decisions every step of the way and Ubi devs obviously went "if in doubt do it exactly like CDPR did it, it worked well". Ubi also directly commented that they took a lot of things from TW3, it's not some big revelation, I was just surprised by the extent to wich they did. TW3 isn't the only influence on AC:O but to me it's the strongest and the most obvious one and TW3 was basically used as a blueprint for the entire gameplay shift after Syndicate. As mentioned eariler Ubi actually worked on improving TW3's systems as well which owns and I actually like that they copied TW3 so much because that game owns. Palpek fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 15:36
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sirs this is a mcdonalds drivethru
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Nov 16, 2017 15:39
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I agree that AC:O took a lot of things from TW3 and I thin overall that's a very good thing however I am glad that, unlike Geralt, Bayek is able to jump off a 10 foot roof without dying Palpek posted:The way traversing the gameworld feels (which is an entire universe of its own), the way the horse and the boat mechanics work, the implementation of question marks and sidequests, the structure of the gameworld, how loot is placed and divided, the bandit camps and dens with the exact enemy hierarchy in them almost all of this stuff was common in open world games before TW3
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Nov 16, 2017 15:42
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I feel like we're giving TW3 credit for a lot of mechanics it included but didn't invent. Palpek's right that the way the question marks on the map work is pretty Witcher 3, though. I haven't played a lot of open world games that have a bunch of question marks just showing you where to go to find points of interest on the map. Usually the map is just blank until you discover a thing, or until you climb a tower in an Ubisoft game to uncover a bunch of icons. Witcher 3 just scatters question marks that turn into the icons as you approach. Other things though, like the structure of the game world and the way loot works, and especially bandit camps (Far Cry 3 predates Witcher 3 by like three years), seem like things that we can't necessarily attribute to Witcher 3.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:51
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corn in the bible posted:sirs this is a mcdonalds drivethru Earwicker posted:almost all of this stuff was common in open world games before TW3
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Nov 16, 2017 15:53
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I finally got to Memphis and drat is it a grungy, filthy, crowded little poo poo-hole and I love it. It's like the NYC to Alexandria's San Francisco! Killed the Phylake there, The Stranger, at the same level as him :coolbert: He dropped Sarissa, which, haha, goddamn Cursed weapons are babytown frolics. I'm now one or two-shotting guys my own level. drat. Word of warning, I don't know if it's because Ubi's severs are down or the patch, but I can't do a daily quest from Reka, and when I first loaded my game post-patch I actually had to wait a few minutes for some quests to show back up (specifically the last of the Poet and Philosopher questlines in Alex). Earwicker posted:almost all of this stuff was common in open world games before TW3 The base stuff is straight out of Far Cry 3/4/Primal, yeah.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:53
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Palpek posted:Yes, I specifically wrote that it's about how exactly they're implemented and not that they exist. thats true of question marks and sidequests, but pretty much everything else you describe is implemented in basically the same way that it is in typical Ubi openworld games, like the whole thing with bandit camps and forts that you sneak into and clear out is straight out of the Far Cry games, even Skyrim's world isn't too different in terms of how you traverse it and how its structured I mean dont get me wrong its clear that they took a lot from TW3 but I also feel like TW3 was so good that at this point people are retroactively giving it credit for things that were already pretty common. IMO the real strength of TW3 was actually good writing in a game (which AC:O unfortunately could not copy) and a really beautiful world, but in terms of open world mechanics I don't think it brought a whole lot new to the table precision posted:I finally got to Memphis and drat is it a grungy, filthy, crowded little poo poo-hole and I love it. It's like the NYC to Alexandria's San Francisco! complete with crocodiles in the "sewers" Earwicker fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 16:03
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Also whistling for your mount was around since at least Red Dead Redemption, so that's not a Witcher 3 thing either.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:04
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Harrow posted:Also whistling for your mount was around since at least Red Dead Redemption, so that's not a Witcher 3 thing either. RDR also had the "follow road" mechanic. And I really think the combat is straight out of Souls/Zelda. Even Yakuza games have lock-on and roll-dodging. e: Notification Boards were in Dragon Age 1 and Inquisition.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:09
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FYI if you have a PS Pro of Xbox One X, HDR has had it's brightness settings fixed. I haven't been able to test it out yet on mine (Latest Patch 1.05) but something to check out in your menu settings and adjust to see if it makes the HDR look more vibrant.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:11
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precision posted:RDR also had the "follow road" mechanic. And I really think the combat is straight out of Souls/Zelda. Even Yakuza games have lock-on and roll-dodging. The combat is much more Souls than Witcher 3, for sure. Even the default control scheme is similar, with light and heavy attacks on R1 and R2 respectively, shield parries, that kind of thing. Things that seem strongly inspired by Witcher 3 would be:
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Nov 16, 2017 16:22
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Harrow posted:[*]Investigation mechanics. The "enhanced vision" thing has been a feature of Assassin's Creed from the start and is actually kinda gone this time, so it doesn't have Witcher senses mechanics, but it does have "investigate all the marked things in this area" stuff which is right out of Witcher 3 (and showed up in Horizon: Zero Dawn, too, which was also heavily inspired by Witcher 3). This was in Syndicate.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:23
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Harrow posted:Also whistling for your mount was around since at least Red Dead Redemption, so that's not a Witcher 3 thing either. You've been able to whistle for a horse off and on since Brotherhood.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:23
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Speaking of shield parries, they actually work now (as of the patch before this one, I think).
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Nov 16, 2017 16:24
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Saint Freak posted:This was in Syndicate. Unity actually had it first. They even had an entire DLC dedicated to investigations, Dreadul Crimes.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:25
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I feel like "investigation mechanics" whether in this game, Witcher, LA Noire, or whatever, is always a really boring part of gameplay and I've yet to find a game that makes that part actually fun. I love detective novels and thrillers in book form but this kind of "looking for clues" stuff in games never works, especially since in most cases it just means pressing a button and walking over to the brightly highlighted clues already pointed out for you.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:26
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TW3 developed mechanics from many different game sources, I agree with that, the game wasn't developed in a vacuum, it's not known for innovation, it's more of a pinnacle of a certain AAA+ game design philosophy (with amazing writing). Far Cry 3 had bandit camps yes but it was a first person shooter game, that's still a huge step away from AC gameplay - the way those camps work and the combat system in them doesn't translate in any usable way to a third person melee game. TW3 made the next step and showed how it could work and AC:O copied that implementation. When you ride a horse with your sword drawn into a camp it's as if you were playing TW3 with an Egyptian coat of paint on it. You could probably make a post on what TW3 took from other games sure, why not (like the very existence of bandit camps) and it definitely even uses ideas from Ubi games but the point is about how close the copy is to the original and how many sources were there. AC: O is an open world melee game with horses and boats and it feels like it had one huuuge source of ideas on how to actually implement its gameplay elements that the devs used directly and in minuscule ways. TW3 didn't feature those mechanics first but it created a specific implementation mix and that mix was taken by Ubi and poured into AC. It just feels so close to playing TW3 at times that it's striking. Palpek fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 16:27
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Harrow posted:. AC2/Brotherhood had small boats.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:27
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This game suffers from the thing that most games of this type (most asscreed games, most gta games) have, which is to say the endgame quests suck, and this is probably gonna be responsible for me chucking the game on the "90% complete, will never finish" pile along with a tonne of others. After getting past the bit where I'm a completely different character with no access to the main world, the map, or my gear, I'm now railroaded onto a forced turret section of the worst kind in the quest "Battle of the Nile". The kind where the turret itself is moving due to being a horse and carriage, making it impossible to aim for poo poo, and even if I switch to M&K it's impossible to be good at that section. Then the elephant came and I quit the game after it killed me several times. I looked up how not to die to it, since arrows have no effect, and it says that Bayek will start chucking speas at it. Well ok, except by the time Bayek says "I have an idea..." which I presume is to use the spears, he's already on the floor desynchronising, every time because the elephant gets the carriage before that cue kicks in. I know people poo poo on this opinion, but an option to "autocomplete this loving lovely quest so I can get on with it" is sorely needed in these games. Like, I know if I dive back in and have another few attempts at it, I'll probably pick up on whatever subtlety I was missing to make the quest work, or RNG will just work out one time and I'll bumble through it, but I just don't wanna. I just don't want to do that.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:30
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Palpek posted:Far Cry 3 had bandit camps yes but it was a first person shooter game, that's still a huge step away from AC gameplay - the way those camps work and the combat system in them doesn't translate in any usable way to a third person melee game. It does in the sense that both games also emphasize stealth a great deal and in both games you are encouraged to clear out bandit camps by sneaking through them and doing stealthy "takedowns" or "assassinations", which are functionally very similar in both games. Whereas in TW3 stealth is not really a major part of gameplay at all. Obviously if you choose to move away from stealth they become different experiences but as others have pointed out the melee combat in AC:O borrows more from Souls than from TW3.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:31
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exploded mummy posted:Unity actually had it first. They even had an entire DLC dedicated to investigations, Dreadul Crimes. Wasn't Dreadful Crimes a Syndicate DLC? Or did it just have a DLC with a very similar name? Anyway I clearly forgot most of Syndicate (and never played Unity) so hey  exploded mummy posted:AC2/Brotherhood had small boats. They did, yes, but the actual mechanics of the boats are right outta Witcher 3. Palpek posted:Far Cry 3 had bandit camps yes but it was a first person shooter game, that's still a huge step away from AC gameplay - the way those camps work and the combat system in them doesn't translate in any usable way to a third person melee game. TW3 made the next step and showed how it could work and AC:O copied that implementation. When you ride a horse with your sword drawn into a camp it's as if you were playing TW3 with an Egyptian coat of paint on it. Sure, but that's not the way the game tends to push you to tackle camps, is it? The first few missions that send you to camps have that "call Senu to highlight your objective" prompt, which also lets you mark enemies and other ways in. There's a general push to at least start attacking camps with stealth, which isn't an option at all in Witcher 3. I think there are a lot more similarities to how Far Cry handles camps, right down to having caged animals you can release to cause havoc. Sure, it's a third-person perspective and has a heavier focus on levels and stats, but otherwise the camp design is very Far Cry.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:40
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Cactus posted:This game suffers from the thing that most games of this type (most asscreed games, most gta games) have, which is to say the endgame quests suck, and this is probably gonna be responsible for me chucking the game on the "90% complete, will never finish" pile along with a tonne of others. After getting past the bit where I'm a completely different character with no access to the main world, the map, or my gear, I'm now railroaded onto a forced turret section of the worst kind in the quest "Battle of the Nile". The kind where the turret itself is moving due to being a horse and carriage, making it impossible to aim for poo poo, and even if I switch to M&K it's impossible to be good at that section. Then the elephant came and I quit the game after it killed me several times. I looked up how not to die to it, since arrows have no effect, and it says that Bayek will start chucking speas at it. Well ok, except by the time Bayek says "I have an idea..." which I presume is to use the spears, he's already on the floor desynchronising, every time because the elephant gets the carriage before that cue kicks in. I didn't really have a ton of issues with that quest, but it felt right out of Uncharted to me. But what I mean by not having a ton of issues is that I didn't really seem to need to take out very many of the chasing chariots at all. I probably missed at least half of my shots and it was still fine. Then you just keep shooting the elephant in the face as fast as you can and it's slow enough that it won't kill you. Arrows do have an effect--they don't do damage, but they slow it down. You're not meant to kill it in that section, just keep pumping arrows into its face so it stays just far enough back not to run you down. Again, though, it's basically a copy/pasted Uncharted setpiece so I'm already extremely used to "shoot the gigantic truck bearing down on you a whole lot so it's slow and doesn't run you down" sections.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:42
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Earwicker posted:It does in the sense that both games also emphasize stealth a great deal and in both games you are encouraged to clear out bandit camps by sneaking through them and doing stealthy "takedowns" or "assassinations", which are functionally very similar in both games. Whereas in TW3 stealth is not really a major part of gameplay at all.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:45
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Harrow posted:I didn't really have a ton of issues with that quest, but it felt right out of Uncharted to me. But what I mean by not having a ton of issues is that I didn't really seem to need to take out very many of the chasing chariots at all. I probably missed at least half of my shots and it was still fine. Then you just keep shooting the elephant in the face as fast as you can and it's slow enough that it won't kill you. Arrows do have an effect--they don't do damage, but they slow it down. You're not meant to kill it in that section, just keep pumping arrows into its face so it stays just far enough back not to run you down. Ah cool ok, so basically keep peppering the elephant's face as fast as possible with arrows. I was obviously giving up on that too soon, though to be fair, Bayek does say they're having no effect but to make it angrier, which to me sounded like the game unsubtly prompting me to look for another solution.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:46
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Cactus posted:Ah cool ok, so basically keep peppering the elephant's face as fast as possible with arrows. I was obviously giving up on that too soon, though to be fair, Bayek does say they're having no effect but to make it angrier, which to me sounded like the game unsubtly prompting me to look for another solution. Yeah, that part's really unclear. It just set off all my Uncharted alarms so I kept shooting and started laughing when Bayek started throwing spears instead. There's one more ship combat section later but other than that, it's going to be the game's core gameplay from here on out, if that helps. Your last couple of assassination missions have you sneaking into places like all the others.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:47
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Senu is e: Talking of which, FC: Primal was a really great game and it seems to have gotten overlooked/forgotten a bit, pick it up for cheap if you want a first-person Horizon sort of thing.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:47
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How does Primal compare to Far Cry 3/4?
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Nov 16, 2017 16:52
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Palpek posted:Of course that TW3 didn't invent RPG mechanics, open world mechanics, discovering locations or the workings of its combat and nobody is saying that it did. exactly its not that the witcher 3 invented that poo poo its that these systems in this game work in the exact same loving way as witcher 3. Like nintendo didnt invent jumping or collecting items in a video game but if you play a platformer where you bounce off enemies heads to kill them and hit blocks to knock poo poo out of them you wouldnt argue that it isnt ripping off mario.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:56
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Palpek posted:How does Primal compare to Far Cry 3/4? Considering I really couldn't be bothered to play more than a few hours of those, pretty well I think. It's got a lot more heart and charm, and none of the edgy story beats. Though I guess that might be a downside to some. It's also really pretty.
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Nov 16, 2017 16:58
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