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Kingdom Death's main income model as I understand it are miniatures, which also seem to be the primary draw of the game. Meanwhile Gloomhaven has miniatures but isn't really a minis-oriented game, if that makes sense.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:13
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Kai Tave posted:Kingdom Death's main income model as I understand it are miniatures, which also seem to be the primary draw of the game. Meanwhile Gloomhaven has miniatures but isn't really a minis-oriented game, if that makes sense. It has minis equal to the number of character classes, but that's it. Everything else is all tokens and cardboard. I'm 90% certain if he could get someone to do sculpts, he could probably make a decent amount of money selling enemy minis.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:19
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Hmm. I bought an extra set of minis to scalp too. Oh well.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:19
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Xelkelvos posted:It has minis equal to the number of character classes, but that's it. Everything else is all tokens and cardboard. I'm 90% certain if he could get someone to do sculpts, he could probably make a decent amount of money selling enemy minis. That would be a lot of mini's. 236 monster standies. I wonder how many people would be interested and if it could economis of scale enough to not be insanely expensive. They had to price that out in development, right? Also you could get the characters as standies if standies vs minis hurts your sensibilities. Which I think is weird but a cool thing to offer.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:40
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Bombadilillo posted:That would be a lot of mini's. 236 monster standies. I wonder how many people would be interested and if it could economis of scale enough to not be insanely expensive. They had to price that out in development, right?
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Nov 16, 2017 23:57
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Bombadilillo posted:That would be a lot of mini's. 236 monster standies. I wonder how many people would be interested and if it could economis of scale enough to not be insanely expensive. They had to price that out in development, right? My Conan King Pledge has something like 264 minis with around 100 of those being unique sculpts if I remember right and it was only $135 so it can be done.
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Nov 17, 2017 00:03
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Gloomhaven's first printing was either $64 for no minis or $80 for character minis. That was probably a meaningful undercost just on the current version. I don't know what kind of money would have to be charged to replace the cardboard standees for everything with minis, but I'm pretty darn sure you wouldn't be looking at $140 or even $160 anymore for retail and that's already a very steep pricetag for a lot of boardgamers. (A hell of a value, in this case, don't get me wrong, but over 50% more than the vast majority of hobby boardgames cost even at the high end is a tough sell.) But also, you see how big that box is? It's already pretty much a storage nightmare. Now picture replacing hundreds of skinny little pieces of cardboard with 3d sculptures.
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Nov 17, 2017 00:55
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It would be cool to have minis for the monsters, but there's no way I'd spend the money for it, and I'm glad Isaac didn't try to force that on everyone. If he works with someone else to offer it later as an option, good for him and anyone who really wants them, but creating the baseline experience without making it feel like anything's missing without them is a good thing either way. He's really pretty much the best example of someone using kickstarter in a non-exploitative way, to the point where I almost feel bad for him for leaving so much money on the table.
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Nov 17, 2017 03:06
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I should have known better than to post a picture with an ominous black box in it
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Nov 17, 2017 03:21
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kinkouin posted:If it's like the multitude of copies I see out in the wild of Ogre: The Ogre Designer Edition is unspeakably huge, and God help you if you turn it on its side and allow the billions of counters to slide out of their slots and have to re-sort everything. They did release a Sixth Edition that's just a giant version of the old black pocket box that's maybe a third the size. (They're in the middle of the Kickstarter for set two of the plastic miniatures right now.)
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Nov 17, 2017 05:10
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Friday is Kings of War: Vanguard's last day, and the $150 pledge is a pretty crazy value
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Nov 17, 2017 05:26
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Arivia posted:No. It’s an amazing game if you enjoy gamifying sexual assault and misogyny. Thank you for outing yourself as a piece of poo poo!  I enjoyed some of the designs of the boss monsters, and enjoyed playing it on TTS.Arivia posted:Forcibly breeding women is a game mechanic. There are tons of rapist monsters, most of them designed to be played with with only one hand. You can use a monster’s breast pump on women for game benefits. Like it’s really the kind of thing where the hole goes as deep as you look, and it keeps just getting worse. I havent seen any of these "rapist monsters" you talked about. It seems that you're twisting some of the words/appearances of some of the things ingame. I guess you could call it "forcibly breeding women" as one interpretation. I have not seen whatever "breast pump" you mention, but I've only played on full runthrough of the game. I enjoyed the boss fights (aka the Hunts), but only played the White Lion, Screaming Antelope, Phoenix, Lion God, Butcher, and Flower Knight. Maybe you went further down the rabbit hole than I did and saw something I didn't? I don't get this leap in logic aside from the sexualized minis (such as the pinups and alternate minis). Regardless, your response was a bit...out there 
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Nov 17, 2017 06:57
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kinkouin posted:
Dude, this is not a hill you want to die on. A few of the models from their site: https://imgur.com/a/yDNMS Not linked to avoid inline NSFW. That's entirely ignoring the creepy bits in the rules themselves.
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Nov 17, 2017 07:54
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Kickstarter has changed the look of their site again today, new fonts, colors, and logo. Also, they seem to have decided they want some of Patreon's lunch and launched https://d.rip/
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Nov 17, 2017 08:08
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To be fair, as much as I appreciate Patreon, it leaves a lot to be desired.
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Nov 17, 2017 08:22
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Liquid Communism posted:Dude, this is not a hill you want to die on. A few of the models from their site: Someone who just played the game on TTS wouldn't have seen any of those models, though. None of those are in the core game or the expansions. And forcibly breeding women isn't in the game (the event you do to breed new survivors literally explicitly says you nominate consenting parents). The breast pump is a joke item included with a pinup model, with no official way to actually add it to the game. None of the monsters in the game have rape-themed moves or actions. KDM is trash, but a lot of people know nothing about it and just post nonsense instead of the real meaty stuff (like that hilarious Satan description).
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Nov 17, 2017 11:43
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The fact that the dick lion and friends aren't in the TTS module doesn't make the game and its creators any less disgusting.
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Nov 17, 2017 11:58
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Lemon-Lime posted:The fact that the dick lion and friends aren't in the TTS module doesn't make the game and its creators any less disgusting. No, but it does mean that people who've only played the game are obviously going to be confused when people start talking like they should obviously know about those models  And the reality is bad enough without just making poo poo up like "you totally roleplay rape as a core feature of the game".
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Nov 17, 2017 12:18
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If you’re not playing the whole game with the gross models that are the major selling point with how many of them there are, don’t get mad when people point out how bad the actual game is. The actual game as shipped is what people are responding to and should be critical about, not a fan alteration into another medium. People playing on Tabletop Simulator don’t need to be protected or coddled, they should act like adults.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:30
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I have a friend with a serious miniatures problem, so I've played a fair amount of his copy of Kingdom Death. It's just a depressing slog, where every event comes and takes a pound of flesh and your team continues to limp towards an ending that was recently changed to be even more dumb and grimdark.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:32
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Arivia posted:If you’re not playing the whole game with the gross models that are the major selling point with how many of them there are, don’t get mad when people point out how bad the actual game is. The gross models aren't in the game though. They aren't in any version of the game. The ones posted on this page aren't even included in the expansions, they have no rules. If you play with those specific gross models, you specifically have to have bought them and proxied them into the game instead of using the models the game actually came with. People posting the pinups and Wet Nurse are the ones failing to talk about the 'actual game as shipped'. That was my point. If someone buys KD, but doesn't read about it online at any point, they will never know about the gross models, because the core game includes a lion with human hands and shark teeth, a goat with a belly mouth, three male humanoids in weird armor, a giant bird covered in human hands, an empty cloak, and a weird fat knight. Those are the only monsters in the 'actual game as shipped'. It's not about coddling people, it's about knowing the most basic things about something you are critical of before yelling at people for not agreeing with you.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:42
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Arivia posted:If you’re not playing the whole game with the gross models that are the major selling point with how many of them there are, don’t get mad when people point out how bad the actual game is. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the idea here is that they didn't know about the other stuff because their experience with it was solely whatever form they played via TTS. It could just be me but I feel like if someone is completely ignorant of something in a situation where they'd have every reason to believe they knew about the subject in question, I would find it hard to fault them for it. They'd have no reason to think that whatever it is they think about the game is wrong if the only thing they've been exposed to is whatever is on TTS. That's probably just me, though. If they really don't know a lick about the other poo poo in kingdom death, I think it'd be unfair to call them a piece of poo poo who supports misogyny and sexual assault. I feel like it'd be comparable to people who enjoy movies starring people who later turn out to be pricks for one reason or another, where someone liking Rosemary's Baby without the knowledge of Roman Polanski's rape charges doesn't make them a person who knowingly supports rapists. That's just imo though. Plus, in that situation, Rosemary's Baby is still a lauded film in spite of the creator while Kingdom Death is generally considered a big mess all around even before you get to the depictions of women. graventy posted:I have a friend with a serious miniatures problem, so I've played a fair amount of his copy of Kingdom Death. It's just a depressing slog, where every event comes and takes a pound of flesh and your team continues to limp towards an ending that was recently changed to be even more dumb and grimdark. What was the original ending and what did they change it to?
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Nov 17, 2017 13:52
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I haven't played KD but I'm pretty sure the original ending was that you kill what you thought was the big bad, and it turns out his presence was actually scaring other monsters away from your camp. I think with him dead you have to suddenly fight all the toughest monsters back to back until you inevitably all die? It might have been an even lamer "monsters fall, everybody dies" anticlimax, I only know the broad strokes. No one is posting about the new boss yet because very few people want spoilers for it, so I have no idea what the new ending is.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:01
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The lion god, lion knight, sunstalker, spidicules, lonely tree, oblivion mosquito, and honeycomb weaver expansions are variable shades of uncomfortable, though. Either from the mini itself or its companion minis. The frogdog pooping babies out of it's multiple vaginamouths and the carefully sculpted butthole of the gorm are at least amusing vs exploitative. I'd expect the forge god, scribe, and wet nurse and a bunch of other monsters will probably get rules from some future kickstarter, but yeah they're just horrific minis you can opt in to, like how every mini has a pinup version of itself you can swap out if you buy it optionally. Even the dung ball that comes with the dung beetle knight.
Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 14:03
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Nuns with Guns posted:The lion god, lion knight, sunstalker, spidicules, lonely tree, oblivion mosquito, and honeycomb weaver expansions are variable shades of uncomfortable, though. Either from the mini itself or its companion minis. The frogdog pooping babies out of it's multiple vaginamouths and the carefully sculpted butthole of the gorm are at least amusing vs exploitative. I'd expect the forge god, scribe, and wet nurse and a bunch of other monsters will probably get rules from some future kickstarter, but yeah they're just horrific minis you can opt in to, like how every mini has a pinup version of itself you can swap out if you buy it optionally. Even the dung ball that comes with the dung beetle knight. Adam has said that the Wet Nurse and Forge God will never get rules for KD:M, actually. The Scribe might, though his fluff is so incredibly OP I can't see how he could make it work. How do you mechanically fight a god figure who can simply write you out of existance? Slenderman is another expansion that gets uncomfortable quickly (based on whether you interpret the artwork in the book as sexual violence or not). The ridiculous White Speaker design* really makes otherwise fairly mild horror art super skeevy. *The White Speakers are the magic blood witches who only wear leather belts covering the absolute bare minimum because something something acute senses mumble mumble risk of seizures. They're way more worthy of criticism than anything posted about KD:M so far in this thread because they are 100% terrible boring exploitative design and they are included in the game itself (but only as flavour in the rulebook, there's no White Speaker model included in the game).
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Nov 17, 2017 14:26
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man this game sounds bad
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Nov 17, 2017 14:28
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The true horror is the alternate timeline where Gloomhaven still had the great, balanced mechanics but now weighed 40 pounds due to all the KDM titty minis it contained.
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Nov 17, 2017 15:37
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I knew I shouldn't have let the Kingdom Death thread fall into archives.
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Nov 17, 2017 15:58
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Liquid Communism posted:Dude, this is not a hill you want to die on. A few of the models from their site: HazCat posted:Someone who just played the game on TTS wouldn't have seen any of those models, though. None of those are in the core game or the expansions. HazCat posted:No, but it does mean that people who've only played the game are obviously going to be confused when people start talking like they should obviously know about those models HazCat posted:It's not about coddling people, it's about knowing the most basic things about something you are critical of before yelling at people for not agreeing with you. My point is exactly this. You went from 0-60 on this; it seems based on figures that isn't in the core game and is not even in the game unless you specifically are going for it. I haven't even heard of whatever "breast pump" item, nor of the boss monster Liquid Communism linked. I only recommended it as a game cause I enjoyed the slog - fighting cool monsters so that your settlement doesn't get crushed by opposing forces. I agree that the (essentially) 10% chance of just outright dying is a little bad, but I felt it was inline with the concept. FirstAidKite posted:Maybe I'm wrong but I think the idea here is that they didn't know about the other stuff because their experience with it was solely whatever form they played via TTS. I feel this is somewhat applicable. Yes, there are some boss monster models in the game, but whatever outlying, sexualized, bizarre models that were showcased in earlier posts are not in the game. And as mentioned, they're optional/no rules for them. The fact is, the game has concepts that are not misogynistic/sexual assault related but it seems a lot of people got triggered over choice pieces. Whatever, the fact that I was "outed" is still bewildering to me; I enjoyed the game and I'm recommending it - dont take several leaps of logic and lump me with your own assumptions cause you feel off about specific concepts/sculpts. HazCat posted:I haven't played KD but I'm pretty sure the original ending was that you kill what you thought was the big bad, and it turns out his presence was actually scaring other monsters away from your camp. I think with him dead you have to suddenly fight all the toughest monsters back to back until you inevitably all die? It might have been an even lamer "monsters fall, everybody dies" anticlimax, I only know the broad strokes. Yes, that's the original ending - it ends up being a boss rush mode where you continuously fight all the old monsters you've encountered. There's also another ending that I haven't played, for the variant in settlements with a different set of bosses; the ending should be similar in the boss rush mode.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:42
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hi can we please stop defending the game whose entire marketing was based on sexy models, often with undertones, overtones or straight up text of sexual assault like, the gameplay could be the best thing in the loving world, but that was the marketing, and it was very loud
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Nov 17, 2017 16:50
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Mors Rattus posted:hi can we please stop defending the game whose entire marketing was based on sexy models, often with undertones, overtones or straight up text of sexual assault the gameplay is not.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:54
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AMooseDoesStuff posted:the gameplay is not. I am not surprised by this, but it's like - it doesn't matter how good or bad the gameplay is, does it?
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Nov 17, 2017 16:56
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Mors Rattus posted:I am not surprised by this, but it's like - it doesn't matter how good or bad the gameplay is, does it? Like the hypothetical scenario I stated above, that would make the conversation actually interesting. If it's bad game, bad minis, there's not much to get worked up over. Game's bad and you can just ignore it. If it was good game, bad minis, now you'd have to make a decision on if you're willing to play it despite that, or if you're using proxy figures, or play a different game.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:59
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I'm pretty firmly in 'play a different game' and especially 'do not give money to the assholes who made this thing and deliberately sold it on sexual assault minis to get massive KS money from gross loving nerds'.
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Nov 17, 2017 17:02
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I would probably have a difficult decision to make if 18xx's and splotter games came with tiddy art and tiddy minis. Especially because as we've seen with ships and planes, train-girls would most definitely be an easy thing to market.
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Nov 17, 2017 17:05
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You could put aside the often rapey implications of the monsters and their fluff, the pinup minis for everything, and as HazCat mentioned the rulebook's fondness for finding reasons to insert drawings of bomb-rear end anime titties at every opportunity. But then you'd have the type of game that gets consigned to the same circular arguments of exactly how much fun can be had in a $400 game that conflates sudden and entirely arbitrary death with challenge. Even the unique body horror of the monster designs gets repetitive or even ridiculous when it all leans so heavily on stapling extra hands/faces/sex bits on everything.
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Nov 17, 2017 17:18
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im proud of the brave people willing to stand up for the rape and tiddy game that made fourteen million dolers
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Nov 17, 2017 17:25
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A year and a half ago, I posted about a competitive two-player gunsword dueling game called Trigger Discipline. It's a cool game made by people I like, and it attracted some interest here, but it wasn't able to find its audience. Now it's back, with a new name - Gunsword. There are also minis and a much better, easier to understand set of backer rewards. Link is here.
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Nov 17, 2017 17:28
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Claytor posted:A year and a half ago, I posted about a competitive two-player gunsword dueling game called Trigger Discipline. It's a cool game made by people I like, and it attracted some interest here, but it wasn't able to find its audience. Oh nice; I remember this when it first launched and was kinda bummed that it didn't fund.
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Nov 17, 2017 17:33
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Cat Face Joe posted:im proud of the brave people willing to stand up for the rape and tiddy game that made fourteen million dolers
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Nov 17, 2017 17:37
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