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Phobic Nest posted:FWIW, Franken's indiscretion has fallen off of Facebook's list of trending topics while the allegation of George H. W. Bush being a groper in 1992 still remains. I'm honestly kind of impressed by that considering the good amount of attempted signal boosting of the Franken story. I guess it just works better on Twitter despite the Russian accounts being twice as obvious? It's easier to talk about a president that can't stop groping women than a comedian-turned-senator that kissed a woman in a creepy way 11 years ago. How many is HW up to now? 6 women coming forward in the past week alone?
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Nov 17, 2017 11:09
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Propaganda Hour posted:It's easier to talk about a president that can't stop groping women than a comedian-turned-senator that kissed a woman in a creepy way 11 years ago. How many is HW up to now? 6 women coming forward in the past week alone? Good point, while I feel like the '92 story is a bigger revelation I suppose the more recent accusations have kept the story trending. Gyaah, there's a lot of creepy weirdos being exposed lately and I just want to pretend I'm still blissfully unaware. Not the most woke reaction I know, but gently caress what a world...
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Nov 17, 2017 11:20
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I find it hard to believe there isn't more examples of Franken doing stuff like what's been reported so far. The patten is the same as every other celebrity including the Sexual-Assaulter-in-chief. He thought he could get away with it. Because he could. And he did. And I'm sure it wasn't an isolated one off incident involving one women. He's no longer the hero we wanted. He dosn't deserve a jail sentence like Trump does, but does need to to understand that his job is less important than being an example of what not to do, and what to do when you get found out. If he didn't think was more important himself than he was to his state and his country, he'd resign. And he's not.
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Nov 17, 2017 11:31
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Koalas March posted:I actually think about this and find it comforting in times of desperation. The universe is amazing and unflinching and awesome in the most literal sense. Some days all that gets me out of bed is the knowledge that, in the fullness of time, every rich gently caress with less empathy than a garter snake will be dead and dust and forgotten, as will we all.
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Nov 17, 2017 11:50
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Comstar posted:I find it hard to believe there isn't more examples of Franken doing stuff like what's been reported so far. The patten is the same as every other celebrity including the Sexual-Assaulter-in-chief. He thought he could get away with it. Because he could. And he did. And I'm sure it wasn't an isolated one off incident involving one women. We'll see. I don't doubt that it's a possibility. It'll suck if it's true, but if is, well, that's the bed he's made. But this has been out for a day. Maybe we can actually see if that's the case first? If it is, then yeah, he needs to go. That said, I disagree that his job isn't important. We can quibble about how important it is, but, you know, there's the whole 'literally keeping people alive' thing. If Franken wasn't there a few months ago, Obamacare would be gone. One single vote saved it. That's not him being a hero, that's him being a Democrat in the Senate with Trump's Republican Party running loving everything. Maybe that's me making a kind of calculus that's uncomfortably close to what the Alabama Republicans are doing, but you know what, they're after loving tax cuts over the bodies of the poor and disabled, I just want people to be able to keep living. I think that's a difference that matters at least a little bit.
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Nov 17, 2017 11:57
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kartikeya posted:We'll see. I don't doubt that it's a possibility. It'll suck if it's true, but if is, well, that's the bed he's made. But this has been out for a day. Maybe we can actually see if that's the case first? If it is, then yeah, he needs to go. You know if he steps down he gets replaced by a Democrat, right? There is no downside to him resigning.
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Nov 17, 2017 11:59
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I think a lot of people were not aware of that.
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Nov 17, 2017 12:00
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Turtlicious posted:I think a lot of people were not aware of that. Reasonable to assume, since the states can handle senator replacement according to their own state laws. tl;dr for Minnesota as far as I understand it: Franken resigns, the governor (a Democrat) appoints a replacement (presumably also a Democrat) who will serve until the next regularly-scheduled election (2018). If the replacement stands for that election and wins, he/she will then serve the remainder of the original Senate term until the next election for that seat would normally have come up if the original holder never resigned (2020). After that, the 6-year cycle is restored.
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Nov 17, 2017 12:17
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Liquid Communism posted:Some days all that gets me out of bed is the knowledge that, in the fullness of time, every rich gently caress with less empathy than a garter snake will be dead and dust and forgotten, as will we all. That has the exact opposite effect on me. The fact that the good and the bad alike will be granted the peace of death but the latter will suffer infinitely more before hand enrages me more than anything. Death is too good for any of those sick fucks.
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Nov 17, 2017 12:20
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Gort posted:You know if he steps down he gets replaced by a Democrat, right? There is no downside to him resigning. The downside that has been bandied about is that Republican governors in States with Democratic senators will get their lawmakers to dig up any kind of dirt possible on those senators, pressure them to resign if anything remotely close to what Franken did is found, then replace them with Republicans so the GOP can get their health care and tax cuts passed. Of course, if any of the Dem senators did something like this, then they should resign as well out of principle. It's just that Republicans aren't going to face the same scrutiny, if any at all. It's an ethical dilemma - doing the right thing in this scenario may lead to a greater deal of suffering than not doing it. St. Dogbert fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 12:37
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St. Dogbert posted:The downside that has been bandied about is that Republican governors in States with Democratic senators will get their lawmakers to dig up any kind of dirt possible on those senators, pressure them to resign if anything remotely close to what Franken did is found, then replace them with Republicans so the GOP can get their health care and tax cuts passed. There's a Dailybeast opinion article up about this that is pretty interesting to consider: The GOP might weaponize #metoo against Democrats https://www.thedailybeast.com/after-al-franken-and-roy-moore-we-are-dangerously-close-to-botching-the-metoo-moment
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Nov 17, 2017 12:53
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https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/931478666869182464?s=17
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Nov 17, 2017 13:08
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St. Dogbert posted:The downside that has been bandied about is that Republican governors in States with Democratic senators will get their lawmakers to dig up any kind of dirt possible on those senators, pressure them to resign if anything remotely close to what Franken did is found, then replace them with Republicans so the GOP can get their health care and tax cuts passed. If you go down this road you're functionally no different than a supporter of Roy Moore, you're just doing more thinking to get there. The solution to your party having a problem with sexual assault is not to get better at covering up and fighting sexual assault cases - it's to make it clear through actions that sexual assault has no place in your party. If Franken resigns, it sends this message. If Franken does not resign, it sends the message that sex offenders can flourish in the Democratic party, and more closeted sex offenders will run for positions in the party, which will cause more and worse problems down the road. We're lucky in that Franken can resign and be replaced by a Democratic senator, and that we're close to Senatorial elections anyway, so those Democratic senators who have skeletons in the closet can just choose not to run again. These are ideal conditions to say, "The Democratic party does not tolerate sex offenders in their ranks, that's what Republicans do" and the opportunity is being squandered. We're entering a new phase of our society, where women come forward and make accusations. If you just pretend that it's not happening, you're going to get left behind. Gort fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 13:14
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I'm starting to get a little worried they are just going to force this turd tax bill through and then repeat the line "it is good for everyone" while the country slowly burns around them since worst case scenario they will get some job from one of the billionaires they are helping in the unlikely event people are so pissed they get voted out. Like this thing is a parody of rear end in a top hat rich people it's so blatant and they have no shame in everyone knowing; they aren't even really trying to obfuscate the fact that everyone will be worse off except a small minority of robber barons which is what's making me think they don't give a poo poo about the optics anymore.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:23
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Radish posted:I'm starting to get a little worried they are just going to force this turd tax bill through and then repeat the line "it is good for everyone" while the country slowly burns around them since worst case scenario they will get some job from one of the billionaires they are helping in the unlikely event people are so pissed they get voted out. It is kind of impressive how rich conservatives have built a system where they can't lose even if they tried.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:25
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Nice.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:25
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So what's the plan a few weeks after Franken resigns, when they start digging up dirt a dozen Democratic senators that aren't so easily replaced? Support them and you look like even bigger hypocrites after forcing Franken to resign just because his seat was safe.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:26
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Propaganda Hour posted:It is kind of impressive how rich conservatives have built a system where they can't lose even if they tried. To be fair this seems to be all politicians where there's always some lobbying job waiting or maybe a lucrative book deal.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:26
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Gustav posted:So what's the plan a few weeks after Franken resigns, when they start digging up dirt a dozen Democratic senators that aren't so easily replaced? Support them and you look like even bigger hypocrites after forcing Franken to resign just because his seat was safe. Right, because there isn't a cadre of conservative journalists constantly digging through Democratic Senators' trash already.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:28
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Gort posted:If you go down this road you're functionally no different than a supporter of Roy Moore, you're just doing more thinking to get there. Raping multiple child is exactly the same as kissing a girl consensually but in a creepy way and then apologizing and her saying that she forgives you.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:32
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Alter Ego posted:Right, because there isn't a cadre of conservative journalists constantly digging through Democratic Senators' trash already. Right, but #metoo has inspired women (and some men) to speak out who wouldn't have spoken out before. If a dozen women speak out against the GOP the GOP just call them liars and keep their seats. If a dozen women speak out against Democrats we could lose a dozen seats. This is a case where Dems really need to get bailed out by white women, but probably won't despite it being in their best self-interest. White men will just keep voting conservative anyway because taxes or guns or something. *Sad trombone* Edit: I'm not arguing that this should or shouldn't be the gameplan for the left, just point out what some are saying is about to happen. Propaganda Hour fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 13:33
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Radish posted:I'm starting to get a little worried they are just going to force this turd tax bill through and then repeat the line "it is good for everyone" while the country slowly burns around them since worst case scenario they will get some job from one of the billionaires they are helping in the unlikely event people are so pissed they get voted out. Like this thing is a parody of rear end in a top hat rich people it's so blatant and they have no shame in everyone knowing; they aren't even really trying to obfuscate the fact that everyone will be worse off except a small minority of robber barons. I kinda view a tax bill as inevitable at this point, but that’s because I hold a dim view of humanity, American voters especially.  Just like the people who keep supporting Roy Moore after he got caught calling middle schoolers at school, or the Trump supporters that openly admit Trump is working against their interests but still support him, every time a schmuck in Anus, Red State goes to the polls, no matter how miserable the GOP is making their lives, they’ll keep pressing the “R”button.There are two types of Americans, ones who see what’s coming and will try their damnedest to avoid it, and others who can’t see what’s coming and will only realize it after they’re experiencing the pain. Rich or poor, educated or not, it doesn’t matter. They’re dim-witted and will walk into the same trap every loving time. I used to live in this area, and yes, there are people living paycheck-to-paycheck in half-million dollar homes with six-figure salaries. Americans are dumb motherfuckers as a whole.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:34
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So where is this greasy stain on middle America exactly?
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 13:34
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St. Dogbert posted:The downside that has been bandied about is that Republican governors in States with Democratic senators will get their lawmakers to dig up any kind of dirt possible on those senators, pressure them to resign if anything remotely close to what Franken did is found, then replace them with Republicans so the GOP can get their health care and tax cuts passed. Elect women. One weird trick that republicans hate.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:45
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Gort posted:If you go down this road you're functionally no different than a supporter of Roy Moore, you're just doing more thinking to get there. Let me preface everything I'm about to say with a statement that I'm not ignoring the harassment or anything like that. Simply building my post around the political arguement. Aren't everyone in this thread screaming for Franken's head playing just as much politics as the next guy? He apologized and she accepted it. AND he asked for an ethics probe. If Roy Moore/etc weren't in the news that probably would have been the end of it. Well, his next election not withstanding. The prevailing argument I see for him resigning is a presumed Dem zero-tolerance policy and the fact he will just get replaced with a Dem anyways. Would you all be still screaming for his head if it was a GOP state and his seat would go red? I'm fairly certain even bringing it up is going to draw some fire my way for "defending the offender" but if the Democrats are going to take the moral high ground they better make drat sure Franken is the worst offender in the House/Senate (Highly, HIGHLY doubtful) before they start screaming "PURGE!".
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Nov 17, 2017 13:51
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Elect women. One weird trick that republicans hate. It worked against trump!
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Nov 17, 2017 13:53
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Elect women. One weird trick that republicans hate. There's a lot of stupid poo poo getting tossed around in this thread, but this is a brilliant idea for a huge number of reasons as well as being democratically and morally right. Elect some more goddamned women already.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:53
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Ripoff posted:I kinda view a tax bill as inevitable at this point, but that’s because I hold a dim view of humanity, American voters especially. gently caress those people in the article. 65 percent of them broke for this God damned clown, now they're going to pay for it.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:57
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Nice piece of fish posted:There's a lot of stupid poo poo getting tossed around in this thread, but this is a brilliant idea for a huge number of reasons as well as being democratically and morally right. I think it’s going to take a Republican woman nominee to get this country to elect first female president.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:00
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What the gently caress is wrong with older women in Alabama? 
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Nov 17, 2017 14:02
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Junior G-man posted:What the gently caress is wrong with older women in Alabama? evangelism is a cult without a corporeal leader. 
skylined! fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 14:04
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Gort posted:If you go down this road you're functionally no different than a supporter of Roy Moore, you're just doing more thinking to get there. What you said is true as well. It would be bad to let Franken stay too - it would send the message to women (and men) who have been victimized by politicians that their experiences will be treated as partisan political matters, thus making it likely that the offender suffers no consequences. That's what makes this an ethical dilemma - there's no winning here. Where you stand on the issue depends on which ethical constructs you apply to the situation.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:06
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Junior G-man posted:What the gently caress is wrong with older women in Alabama? Probably mostly tribalism, possibly with some "that was just the way things were back then!" or "I was molested/harassed and I turned out just fine!" thrown in for good measure
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Nov 17, 2017 14:06
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Junior G-man posted:What the gently caress is wrong with older women in Alabama? I'm guessing a lot of them were victims of similar harassment, and one coping strategy is to convince yourself that it's no big deal.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:07
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Junior G-man posted:What the gently caress is wrong with older women in Alabama? The culture of silence is strong in more rural parts of the South. And in that generation, a lot of the feelings of "stand behind the man no matter what" still persist as well. My (Midwestern) mom was a victim of frequent, violent physical abuse from my Southern Baptist stepdad from Louisiana for several years. When she finally spoke up about it, pretty much all of her matronly Southern friends abandoned her overnight. Most of them didn't say why, but a few had the balls enough to tell her it was because you don't talk about what goes on in the home "down here." It's not that much of a stretch to see these same people supporting Moore for the same reasons. He's the man, and we don't talk about the man's dirty laundry.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:07
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Brony Car posted:I think it’s going to take a Republican woman nominee to get this country to elect first female president. I would have said the same thing about a Kenyan president, but look where we are! e- But in all honesty, In the early 2000s if a time-traveller would have told me about B-rock I might have been a bit skeptical. KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 14:08
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Junior G-man posted:What the gently caress is wrong with older women in Alabama? the same thing thats wrong with old people everywhere: their heads haven't been removed via guillotine
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Nov 17, 2017 14:11
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KickerOfMice posted:I would have said the same thing about a Kenyan president, but look where we are! Yeah he was a kind of lightning bolt. It's difficult to think of similar cases in American history, where a person emerged from nothing to power as if by an ineluctable force of nature. I hope he's writing a huge memoir.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:18
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canepazzo posted:
I think on most things you'd be correct. However, this is not a line of attack the GOP wants to pursue because in the sexual assault olympics old horny white men are on all steps of the pedestal. That's why Turtle is just referring this to committee. So when later, when John Inhofe is caught fingering an aid or whatever, Mitch can just say "we followed the same protocol we did with the democrat"
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Nov 17, 2017 14:25
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https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/931497501777154049?s=17
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Nov 17, 2017 14:43
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