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Wisecrack: How South Park gets Trump Right I have some reservations here, but they're entirely offset by reading the comments.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:35
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Who What Now posted:Slapping tits on something is 99% of all advertising that exists, my dude. You're gonna have to chuck out all of society before that goes away. It's not great, but it's not a problem unique to twitch or even one that Twitch suffers from more than anyone else. Focusing on them is asinine. Dunno man, DarkSydePhil's been a boob on both Youtube and Twitch for a while now and it's not going too well for him....
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Nov 17, 2017 19:40
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Glagha posted:We can talk all day about personal agency vs. objectification or whatever but I figure if you wanna bring people in by showing off for the stream or whatever, that's up to you. twitch doesn't need to encourage that though. i dont know how they would implement a policy to prevent this tendency for game streaming to crossover into knockoff porn for thirsty nerds but if gaming wants to be 'legitimate' the platforms which aspire to that level of validity need to be better than basically the seedy gas station that sells skin mags Who What Now posted:Slapping tits on something is 99% of all advertising that exists, my dude. You're gonna have to chuck out all of society before that goes away. It's not great, but it's not a problem unique to twitch or even one that Twitch suffers from more than anyone else. Focusing on them is asinine. do you think this argument is convincing in a forum which is basically just a collective gripe session about all the ways in which society should be better, but wont be? if all you have to offer is "but society sucks tho and wont ever get better" maybe keep this brilliant insight to yourself?
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Nov 17, 2017 19:41
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Discendo Vox posted:We, um, do keep a lot of kids away from tobacco and alcohol with regulations. Opportunity cost and norm shifting is a thing that exists. It's directly analogous to saying that a site that's aimed at game streaming shouldn't be encouraging porn signups and nudes unless they're willing to put content filtering and verification in place, rather than being a criticism against camgirls themselves, which it isn't, there are a fuckton of other sites dedicated just to that. It's also not a criticism of twitch streamers who just happen to be attractive and wear low cut tops.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:50
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Guavanaut posted:It's also not a criticism of twitch streamers who just happen to be attractive and wear low cut tops. you could work within their incentives there if they are a camgirl vs. just an attractive streamer, because camgirls don't really want to attract a bunch of minors as minors generally dont have money even steam lets you filter out all the dumb anime porn games if you dont want to see that crap
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Nov 17, 2017 19:52
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Sephyr posted:Dunno man, DarkSydePhil's been a boob on both Youtube and Twitch for a while now and it's not going too well for him.... Yeah, but at least his attempt at pornographic content was just the result of him leaving his webcam on.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:53
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Thing with all the twitch stuff is this isn't even some "Not real gamurz" thing either, they got to drop all pretenses about it being about games, you can go on the IRL section and be 100% titties instead of having to be 90% titties and 10% game minimized in the corner now.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:58
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it's way worse that boring lame-os that play bad games are most of the popular streamers than some attractive woman rocking Ds shows a lil skin.Raenir Salazar posted:Wisecrack: How South Park gets Trump Right this is kinda dumb because everyone knew what trump was going in. it's not like the worm turned after he was elected. (and the white working class didn't elect trump) Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 20:02
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Groovelord Neato posted:(and the white working class didn't elect trump) Depends how you define some of that, it's bald faced classism that a bunch of people constantly try to attribute it to those filthy trailer trash rednecks and poo poo, but their real base was however the middle manager suburbanite white dudes.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:14
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Yardbomb posted:Depends how you define some of that, it's bald faced classism that a bunch of people constantly try to attribute it to those filthy trailer trash rednecks and poo poo, but their real base was however the middle manager suburbanite white dudes. From what I know of Neato's previous posting that is what was meant. At the same time the South Park episode appears to be based more around the idea of the working class being patronised, when we all know that who should be being brow beaten is the Mcmansion owning douchnozzle uncle that you know.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:16
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trump won white college educated voters. during the republican primary his voters were the wealthiest. suburbanites and exurbanites aren't really the working class. a recent study showed that college educated republicans are more likely than their non-degreed counterparts to believe dumb conspiracy poo poo like obama being muslim, not being born in the us, uranium one, etc. which is loving insane.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:24
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OwlFancier posted:It's not really asinine if you use the platform and also dislike the already hilariously misogynist trends among people who play videogames. I think singling out women who aren't doing something harmful while remaining silent about doing nothing about men doing more harmful things deserves to be pointed out.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:26
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I think the complaint is against twitch as a platform not against the women doing it... As in they're electing to profit from adding a titty show to their gaming site.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZk3Q_E53-Q
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Nov 17, 2017 20:32
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Groovelord Neato posted:trump won white college educated voters. during the republican primary his voters were the wealthiest. suburbanites and exurbanites aren't really the working class. Just as a minor thing, I don't believe the bolded is true. I think the opposite is, actually. Trump primary voters (like Republican primary voters in general) are more well off than the average American, but I don't believe they were more well off than the other Republican primary voters for the other primary candidates. IIRC Trump primary voters were the least well-off, though only slightly less so than the second least. There was a lot of bad reporting during and after the election implying that "Trump voters" - presumably as a unique group from regular "Republican voters" (which is misleading in its own way) - were exceptionally well off, but the most relevant statistic in this case would be how well off Trump-preferring Republicans were relative to other Republicans, and I believe the answer ended up being "somewhat less wealthy, though not by much since 'Trump Republicans' mostly aren't really a distinct group from just 'Republicans.'" This does a good job of explaining: http://election.princeton.edu/2016/05/07/among-republican-voters-trump-supporters-have-the-lowest-income/
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Nov 17, 2017 20:59
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this guy is having an existential crisis caused by capitalism that he's inappropriately blaming on hipsters and liberals. He was very compelling to listen to though, kinda like a really sad and pathetic David Lynch
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Nov 17, 2017 21:06
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"I'm not a hipster, I hate hipsters... now allow me to name drop a bunch of bands to show off my eclectic taste in music"
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Nov 17, 2017 22:13
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OwlFancier posted:I think the complaint is against twitch as a platform not against the women doing it... Weird then, that the arguments single out "boob-streams" and not "Twitch-executives".
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Nov 17, 2017 22:34
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...In the context of those being an objectionable thing to put on a gaming site.... yes... Which would be the decision of the site.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:39
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Verisimilidude posted:this guy is having an existential crisis caused by capitalism that he's inappropriately blaming on hipsters and liberals. He was very compelling to listen to though, kinda like a really sad and pathetic David Lynch He also doesn't seem to understand that often old things that are now considered valuable or rare often went through a period of being considered worthless. Not to mention that the music and movies at FYE are also "merch".
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Nov 17, 2017 22:41
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Twitch is directly contributing to the harassment by not taking a clear stance on whether this is something that is allowed on the platform. They're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They know full well that if they come out in support then that could mean ad-partners walking, simultaneously blocking these women from the service would cost them ad-revenue. So instead they're doing nothing and guess who gets to pay the price in harassment and death threats.
MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 22:43
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OwlFancier posted:...In the context of those being an objectionable thing to put on a gaming site.... yes... And the site is allowing it, so why are the arguments centered on the women and not the site?
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Nov 17, 2017 22:46
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Personally I also am not very pleased with platforms using the youtube-esque "find some way to monetize your videos but probably fail yet still generate revenue for us" model to encourage people to engage in sex work, an industry already miserably rife with exploitation.Who What Now posted:And the site is allowing it, so why are the arguments centered on the women and not the site? They... aren't? The criticism is that the content isn't a good thing to have on the site, that pretty clearly as we both identify is a site adminsitrative issue?
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Nov 17, 2017 22:46
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OwlFancier posted:
The hell they aren't. Maybe yours, specifically, aren't, but don't pretend like the ones that started this derail (you know, the arguments about how Twitch is a platform for kids that is being corrupted by those awful sexy women) aren't real. They're literally on the last page.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:51
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I don't really love streams as I tend to think most people treat it as a poor mans podcast anyways. If it were up to me I would remove the facecam option overall. It should be about the game and commentary. But people do seem to like it, so I guess it is there to stay. However, I do think that if it is obvious that they are trying to use sex appeal to get viewers/donations then that is a lovely thing to do. Not because of a "think of the kids" mentality, but because a lot of people put effort into their streams. The same rule applies to any type of content where people put in a lot of effort. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8e-xcL9q8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_F0ZZbcugc Midig fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 22:52
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I'm not really seeing that? Everyone appears to be complaining that it's pandering to lovely stereotypes in gaming or that it's exploitative in some way? Both of which I'd agree with. The least committal position is that it's just "weird to see" which, well, it is assuming you're not utterly cynical about gaming but I can't really draw much else from.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:53
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having jordan peterson on was bad but roasting a nude redhead is the last straw!! edit: lmao that woman's voice is like 30 years older than she looks. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 22:55
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Who What Now posted:The hell they aren't. Maybe yours, specifically, aren't, but don't pretend like the ones that started this derail (you know, the arguments about how Twitch is a platform for kids that is being corrupted by those awful sexy women) aren't real. They're literally on the last page. nobody's going to take your camgirls away thirsty nerd, we're just saying twitch is probably the wrong platform for it if it wants to be a "serious" gamer site you don't always have to put tits on everything to make it interesting
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Nov 17, 2017 22:57
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Who What Now posted:The hell they aren't. Maybe yours, specifically, aren't, but don't pretend like the ones that started this derail (you know, the arguments about how Twitch is a platform for kids that is being corrupted by those awful sexy women) aren't real. They're literally on the last page. yo can you quote the part where i was talking about how i hated the girl streamers or whatever. i think my brain has holes in it cause i don’t remember saying that
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Nov 17, 2017 22:59
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If you are going to put tits on things you should at the very very least ensure the provider is well paid.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:59
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i feel bad for that iphone reviewer she isn't working with much.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:01
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Groovelord Neato posted:
You talking about the product or the tits? Midig fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 23:03
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Even if twitch comes out in favor of "booby streamers", that's not going to stop how much they're harassed. The twitch community is toxic garbage.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:07
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Midig posted:I don't really love streams as I tend to think most people treat it as a poor mans podcast anyways. If it were up to me I would remove the facecam option overall. It should be about the game and commentary. But people do seem to like it, so I guess it is there to stay. However, I do think that if it is obvious that they are trying to use sex appeal to get viewers/donations then that is lovely thing to do. Not because of a "think of the kids" mentality, but because a lot of people put effort into their streams. The same rule applies to any type of content where people put in a lot of effort. In all fairness twerking is one of the control options for Call of Duty if you have the Kinect.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:07
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Who What Now posted:The hell they aren't. Maybe yours, specifically, aren't, but don't pretend like the ones that started this derail (you know, the arguments about how Twitch is a platform for kids that is being corrupted by those awful sexy women) aren't real. They're literally on the last page.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:08
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He isn't wrong though. A lot of people do use the "think about the kids" because they aren't capable of making actual good/sincere arguments.
Midig fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 23:11
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Verisimilidude posted:Even if twitch comes out in favor of "booby streamers", that's not going to stop how much they're harassed. The twitch community is toxic garbage. All internet communities are toxic garbage, that's not the issue here. This is a problem of mismatched consumer expectations and products offered. If Twitch wants to open the floodgates on adult content they are free to do so like many other stream-related business have done before. No significant amount of people would be harassing these women if they were offering the exact same services on any random porn-site. It's the mismatched expectation that is creating this backlash and that is completely Twitch's fault for failing to communicate properly with their customers and content creators. Stop making apologies for the company which is profiting off these women getting harassed.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:14
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MiddleOne posted:Stop making apologies for the company which is profiting off these women getting harassed. Which is why I am actively pro twitch not only coming out in favor of these women, but also pro twitch cranking their community policing methods to the max and perma-banning every single harasser on sight. edit: and while I agree some backlash is coming from twitch's inaction, I can guarantee that it's not the only reason, nor the majority reason, for the backlash. This has been fueled and perpetuated by gross misogynistic creepers since day one. Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 23:18
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Also half decent labour relations would suggest employers have a duty to care for the welfare of their workers though obviously twitch operates on the wonderful
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Nov 17, 2017 23:19
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OwlFancier posted:Also half decent labour relations would suggest employers have a duty to care for the welfare of their workers though obviously twitch operates on the wonderful Still better than Youtube somehow, which really speaks to just how lovely a workplace the internet is for the vast majority of content creators.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:21
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