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iirc POUM, whom Orwell initially fought with, were also democratically organized( in spite of being trot, not anarchist), at least until the PCE or the soviets militarized their structure.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:48
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HEY GUNS posted:which one of us studies one of the most oppressed populations in european history? a group of people who were never given a voice by their superiors? despised by both their superiors and civilians? who nevertheless organized themselves into self-governing workers' councils? who regarded themselves as an aristocracy of labor? I'm sorry for digging up this post but could you please elaborate on how this worked? What did a mercenary council do when taking action? Did they go on strike or maybe find a different company?
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Nov 17, 2017 19:51
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Tias posted:iirc POUM, whom Orwell initially fought with, were also democratically organized( in spite of being trot, not anarchist), at least until the PCE or the soviets militarized their structure. Other than like, brigands, the only other example I can think of is maybe Green Beret A-Teams. Probably be interesting to compare it party management in RPGs. Edit ^ Or I guess mercs, too.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:53
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Cessna posted:I used to do WWII reenacting as Soviet and, yes, German if the group needed opponents. Where was this? In Canada, every event with reenactors I've been to had the Germans outnumber the Allies at least ten to one.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:57
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CoolCab posted:Yeah don’t take silence as endorsement of a side, just an endorsement of this being a lovely argument.  This being milhist, it is historically inadvisable to start fights you can't win.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I also agree but uh, weren't we specifically having a discussion about the Stalinist Soviet Union w r t warcrimes prosecutions? Reading page 721 is real interesting. We're having perfectly nice discussions about swords, the emergence of monoplanes, and whether Don Trump should be allowed to authorize a nuclear strike. Then somebody comes along with their Soviets = Nazis hot take. Everyone sort of ignores it beyond the requisite "that's a dumb opinion" and "the western allies did tons of hosed up imperial poo poo too". Then on to 722, out of loving nowhere, one guy ranting about how the Soviet Union wasn't really communist, and we're all secret conservatives or something.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:04
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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So yeah, tell me where the erasure of non-Stalinists is because I sure as heck don't see it. Edit: this is like someone coming in to dispute that the Nazis did bad things with "omg Hitler wasn't a real Nazi, don't you know about the night of the long knives, how dare you erase strasserites, you darn lefties" or something Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 20:11
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Were there any other guns in history that went ping
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Nov 17, 2017 20:14
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I'm skipping a bunch of pages but I got a query burning in my pocket: At what stage/under what conditions does raiding and pillaging transition into tributary relationships, and when does that become a more standard state from that? Like, in my head I can imagine that, you get raided enough by someone and aren't able to deal with them, so it becomes easier to just agree to pay up and skip the bit where they sack you*. Then, presumably, if that goes on long enough and you're a place worth caring about, then tribute becomes something that's worth defending and possibly investing in, and at that point you're functionally just being taxed by an overlord. I mean, that's my assumption, at least. How long does that take or, more likely I guess, what prompts those kinds of changes (since I can imagine some people loot forever and some people go "Oh holy poo poo this is WAY better than rolling around nicking stuff" basically immediately)? *I'm aware that there are cases where the guys who're getting protection money then go "ahaha suckers" and raid them anyway, but, I guess that's not universal.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:26
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According to David Graeber, at the point where people start going "this is how it's always been".
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Nov 17, 2017 20:40
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Ensign Expendable posted:Where was this? In Canada, every event with reenactors I've been to had the Germans outnumber the Allies at least ten to one. The Wehrmacht hordes are real now?
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Nov 17, 2017 20:42
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If people wanted to talk about intra-left divisions during the Russian civil war or the impact of the Spanish civil war I imagine everyone in this thread will be receptive to that. The whole X aren't communists because they didn't allow abortion, also gently caress historians, also ideology means that there's no truth, also you are all rightists who can't comprehend the clear truth of my words... gently caress that. Edit: I would love to see an effort post about the POUM. I'm sure Phi23 can then tell us if they were Communist or not. Fangz fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 20:46
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Nebakenezzer posted:Me 321 - Three words: Glider. War. Elephants. Speaking of gliders, I admire the British approach to glider pilots being infantrymen once they landed and training them to be special forces in their own right. The US choice of just grabbing regular infantry and telling them 'you guys are glidermen now' seems like a dick move. They didn't even get bonus pay until after Normandy! I don't know if this got posted when it first came out, but the Tank Museum did a documentary for Cambrai's 100th anniversary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=athYWDL9C20
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Nov 17, 2017 20:49
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Ensign Expendable posted:Where was this? In Canada, every event with reenactors I've been to had the Germans outnumber the Allies at least ten to one. I don't want to get too specific, but Western USA. Generally the ration was US/GIs 5, Germans 5, Soviets 3 (like a Naval Treaty) but it varied from event to event. Sometimes we'd have enough people with Russian stuff to make it worthwhile for a "Russian Front" event, sometimes we'd have a lot of people with US gear and next to no Germans, etc.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:59
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You need two sides? Is this reenactment stuff like, boffer LARP with guns or something? You don't just like, set up a camp and steal chickens and poop in a hole in the ground?
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Nov 17, 2017 21:18
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Rockopolis posted:You need two sides? Is this reenactment stuff like, boffer LARP with guns or something? You don't just like, set up a camp and steal chickens and poop in a hole in the ground? There are different types of reenactments. "Public Displays" where you do as you said - set up a camp, talk to people ("yes, that is real food that we're eating"). It's like the dog-and-pony shows we did in the real military. Sometimes we'd a small mock-battle. "Tacticals" are bit events where everyone runs around in the woods to play soldier. They try to use period-appropriate tactics, but more often than not it turns into "you're dead/are not/am too."
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Nov 17, 2017 21:25
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OwlFancier posted:
But it worked out so well for the Palentine
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Nov 17, 2017 21:27
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Cessna posted:There are different types of reenactments. How do you determine who gets shot in a tactical then if it's like childish like that Do you use blanks? Is that safe?
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Nov 17, 2017 21:28
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Generally in a LARP you have the GM and a lot of arguing involved about who won the fight.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:29
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OwlFancier posted:Generally in a LARP you have the GM and a lot of arguing involved about who won the fight. That doesn't sound fun tbh
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Nov 17, 2017 21:30
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Phi230 posted:How do you determine who gets shot in a tactical then if it's like childish like that Generally you use live ammunition, but due to some calibers being rather expensive, it sometimes devolves into "BANG! YOURE DEAD" shout matches.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:33
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Generally you use live ammunition, but due to some calibers being rather expensive, it sometimes devolves into "BANG! YOURE DEAD" shout matches. How do you use live ammo? You'd expect historically accurate casualties if so
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Nov 17, 2017 21:34
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The one who can first spot an historical inaccuracy in the opponent's attire, wins.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:34
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Phi230 posted:How do you use live ammo? You'd expect historically accurate casualties if so Nerds are poor shots and the amount of trees in NA makes it unlikely that you'll get hit by a stray shot.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:35
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Phi230 posted:That doesn't sound fun tbh You're obviously not a naturally argumentative person.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:38
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OwlFancier posted:Generally in a LARP you have the GM and a lot of arguing involved about who won the fight.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:55
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Phi230 posted:Do you use blanks? Is that safe? Yes, you use blanks. Nenonen posted:The one who can first spot an historical inaccuracy in the opponent's attire, wins. I see you're familiar with reenacting.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:59
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What is the most recent period that gets re-enacted? Like, past WWII. Korea and Vietnam? GWOT? (not counting militia-types)
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Nov 17, 2017 22:23
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GWOT reenactment exists, as cringy as it must be. Taiping rebellion reenactment does not exist, however.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:27
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Rockopolis posted:What is the most recent period that gets re-enacted? Like, past WWII. Vietnam is probably the most common.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:29
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Rockopolis posted:What is the most recent period that gets re-enacted? Like, past WWII. Most recent event I went to had a Vietnam battle complete with several vehicles. It was in Oshawa, so I'm pretty sure that most of the Viet Cong was played by white guys.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:32
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Comrade Gorbash posted:One would think using paintball markers or airsoft guns would reduce the amount of arguing for milsim stuff. One would think. Yeah thats not how that works. Besides, cheaters in both those hobbies exist.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:43
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Yeah thats not how that works. Besides, cheaters in both those hobbies exist.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:50
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Bobby Digital posted:Dude had a good run Subsequently found out that he originally joined as a Private in 1914. Citation for his first M.C. - "For conspicuous gallantry and good leadership while commanding his company, which he led against a formidable strong point. Considerable opposition was overcome, many of the enemy killed, and the position captured. Later, he again led his company with great skill and courage, and was the first to reach a railway cutting, where over 200 prisoners were taken." Did well after the war as well - he ended up the President of the Institute of Trade Mark Attorneys from 1942-1946. Died in 1961, age 70.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:51
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Rockopolis posted:What is the most recent period that gets re-enacted? Like, past WWII. Mass shootings.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:51
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Ensign Expendable posted:Most recent event I went to had a Vietnam battle complete with several vehicles. It was in Oshawa, so I'm pretty sure that most of the Viet Cong was played by white guys. I went to an event called Military Odyssey in the UK a couple of years back with a Vietnam battle reconstruction where the VC/NVA were for sure white guys. Also featured a Crusaders vs Saracens set piece battle (Saracens were white guys and gals complete with leader with “comedy” accent). The same show had GWOT reenactors which was just loving weird especially given that the regular army had recruiting stands there. Also, I’m p. sure WW2 Germany was the most common re-enactment there, including at least one 12ish year old kid dressed as a member of the Hitler Youth.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:03
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Owlkill posted:Also, I’m p. sure WW2 Germany was the most common re-enactment there, including at least one 12ish year old kid dressed as a member of the Hitler Youth.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:05
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Owlkill posted:I went to an event called Military Odyssey in the UK Is that the place that’s loaded with vendors selling actual neo-nazi poo poo, or was that some other major UK re-enacting event?
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Nov 17, 2017 23:08
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Owlkill posted:I went to an event called Military Odyssey in the UK a couple of years back with a Vietnam battle reconstruction where the VC/NVA were for sure white guys. Obligatory https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...G4CCPGv65O2biwa
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Nov 17, 2017 23:09
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Comrade Koba posted:Is that the place that’s loaded with vendors selling actual neo-nazi poo poo, or was that some other major UK re-enacting event? Yep, that sounds like the one - I saw at least one stall selling straight up Nazi-themed t-shirts amongst other “memorabilia” that just so happened to be from Germany in the 1933-1944 period. Oh I also forgot to mention that apparently Confederate re-enactment is a thing in the UK, which I hadn’t anticipated.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:17
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