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Neurosis posted:Some of the others though... John Colt has 0 in common with Spartan except they're both Kheran. He seems more like Yohn Kohl, the Kheran Spartan's mind was copied from. He was a sort of Indiana Jones/Doc Savage type adventurer and explorer, though it looks like in modern times he's more James Bondish. Perhaps he'll die and be reborn as a Spartan bot. Or they just have higher quality bots. Also, who was the fifth clade? Daemonites? nofather fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 13:51
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Schneider Heim posted:My officemate told me to read Mister Miracle as he claims it's absolutely incredible. True/false? True.
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Nov 17, 2017 14:32
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Two Tone Shoes posted:He's the same character, man. You just don't have the wacky voice acting to sell the Booyahs. Saying Booyah and mulling over being pulled between man and machine is the only thing he's done for 40 years. I don't know how you got the opposite of that out of what I said. It's less explored in the JL but it's been done, like, 3 times in JL already and even more before the New 52. But he's not the same character though. He's hardly a character at all, and that's the point I was trying to make; comic Cyborg's chief problem is that he's booooring and that's an issue that can be remedied. Booyahs are a reference, they hardly make him the same as his cartoon counterpart. When people talk about not wanting him on the League, the chief complaints I've seen are a) that he's there to keep the team from being all white and b) that he should be Martian Manhunter. It's never about Cyborg being annoying or anything, because he's not. The reason people have so many alternate league members on their dream list is because Cyborg's bland as gently caress (see also: Jordan, Hal). Like okay here's the best example I can give for why comic Cyborg sucks  Shazam is bored and wants to play. We are told that Cyborg has an Xbox built in but then he immediately shoots down an offer to play because he's a loving buzzkill. In the next page, Shazam creates a ping pong table and Cyborg kinda smiles but we never see it again. It's implied that they played and that they're buddies, but we never really see that conveyed through art or dialogue. Googling for this panel, I found a funny variant cover about 5 issues later where they play a fighting game as each other, but that's a freakin' variant cover, does it really count? Here's all I really want: I don't need a full 20 page comic of Cyborg and TwoPair fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 15:31
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Thank you for summing it up so well. Comic book Cyborg is boring and bland as all hell and always has been. He probably always will be. If DC had been smart they would have taken his TTG personality and reimagined him in the mainline comics.
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Nov 17, 2017 15:52
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Schneider Heim posted:My officemate told me to read Mister Miracle as he claims it's absolutely incredible. True/false? True.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:27
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Flytrap posted:Are there any cyborgs in comics who DON'T bitch about their humanity all the time? Serious question because I'd really like to see someone turn into a cyborg and just be "Fukken sweet, I don't have to worry about cancer anymore!" or some poo poo. Or, hell, the post Cyborg DCEU film. Teenage Fansub posted:Edit: The one interesting thing about The Jetsons comic is Rosie being a shell for George's mother to live on after she died.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:45
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TwoPair posted:But he's not the same character though. He's hardly a character at all, and that's the point I was trying to make; comic Cyborg's chief problem is that he's booooring and that's an issue that can be remedied. Booyahs are a reference, they hardly make him the same as his cartoon counterpart. When people talk about not wanting him on the League, the chief complaints I've seen are a) that he's there to keep the team from being all white and b) that he should be Martian Manhunter. It's never about Cyborg being annoying or anything, because he's not. The reason people have so many alternate league members on their dream list is because Cyborg's bland as gently caress (see also: Jordan, Hal). Like okay here's the best example I can give for why comic Cyborg sucks Fine, the same character with less screen time. My main point is that he still has the same gimmick he had in Wolfman/Pereze which was the same gimmick he had in the show: AM I A REAL PERSON. But we got that Cyborg for years and years. If the only thing you want is to constantly relive Cyborg being a goofy idiot like he was in the cartoon then that comic will get just as boring just as quick. It's like the people who say the JL cartoon Flash is the best Flash. Sure, he's fine comic relief as a more minor supporting character. But you can't make an entire comic book and character arc focus on that guy just being a goofball. It barely even counts as one dimensional. I'd say Cyborg needs less dumbing down to his cartoon version and more someone actually doing an interesting and original take on the character. Drawing all your influence from long dead tv series who don't have the weight of comic perpetuity on their shoulders always ends up a mistake. Like, when they made Teen Titans Cartoon Comics was that what you wanted? The TTGO Cyborg's not far from what you're asking for and they're making those comics if that's really your interest.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:12
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Schneider Heim posted:My officemate told me to read Mister Miracle as he claims it's absolutely incredible. True/false? It's worth the investment
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Nov 17, 2017 21:58
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Sinners Sandwich posted:Rosarch's gonna take his mask off and it's Prez this would actually make me buy Doomsday Clock, not kidding
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Nov 17, 2017 22:01
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Fine, the same character with less screen time. My main point is that he still has the same gimmick he had in Wolfman/Pereze which was the same gimmick he had in the show: AM I A REAL PERSON. But we got that Cyborg for years and years. If the only thing you want is to constantly relive Cyborg being a goofy idiot like he was in the cartoon then that comic will get just as boring just as quick. I wasn't even thinking about a solo, I was purely thinking of his role on the Justice League. Which... well you made my point for me with Flash. You're right in that JLU Wally wouldn't support his own show/comic, but he didn't need to support his own show, so writers were free to do whatever they wanted with him. Cyborg's been on the Justice League since 2011 and he's only had a solo since 2015. That leaves 4 years where he was just a supporting character that nobody did a drat thing with. And yes, you could say that a goofy Cyborg can't make for a good solo title but then, a mopey Cyborg sure can't seem to either (I guess the Rebirth series is doing better than the DCYou one but it's never one I see getting a lot of buzz). And yes, I'd love an interesting take on the character, but like you said, it seems like no one's had a fresh take on the character/concept since the 80s. I mean ultimately all I'm saying is that if Cyborg is here to stay on the Justice League (and if he wasn't before, he certainly is now, what with being a movie character with a solo film apparently lined up), then why not pull from the more popular version of the character* and maybe hook some new readers into this dying industry instead of having him be dull and then bitching online about how much he sucks and should be Martian Manhunter? *From what I hear apparently he's one of the few redeeming parts of the Justice League movie? Fine, just copy that instead, my point stands. Maybe he doesn't have to change into a goof, but he has to change into something enjoyable. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 23:44
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Teenage Fansub posted:Ultron T-Rex in the last Squirrel Girl arc seemed to be having a great time without any angst about not being a real person or dinosaur. Wow, between this and genocidal Flintstones they sure seem to be doing...something with those old cartoon properties.
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Nov 18, 2017 02:06
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Flytrap posted:Are there any cyborgs in comics who DON'T bitch about their humanity all the time? Serious question because I'd really like to see someone turn into a cyborg and just be "Fukken sweet, I don't have to worry about cancer anymore!" or some poo poo. Not a cyborg but Rockslide's general thesis on being a big man-shaped pile of rocks is that it loving owns
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Nov 18, 2017 03:45
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TwoPair posted:*From what I hear apparently he's one of the few redeeming parts of the Justice League movie? Fine, just copy that instead, my point stands. Maybe he doesn't have to change into a goof, but he has to change into something enjoyable. I found him boring as hell.
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Nov 18, 2017 06:42
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Flytrap posted:Are there any cyborgs in comics who DON'T bitch about their humanity all the time? Serious question because I'd really like to see someone turn into a cyborg and just be "Fukken sweet, I don't have to worry about cancer anymore!" or some poo poo. The Engineer didn't seem to complain much. The new one is worried about how its affecting her health but doesn't seem to bitch about it. Ladytron, too. She was angry someone did it to her but became a sort of robot idol and enjoyed that status. Wildstorm had a thing called the Church of Gort that exalt cyber life, though there was some conflict within the followers, I think revolving around the afterlife or about 'pure' robots and AI versus cyborgs. Oooh, and Ivana Baiul. Cybernetics were really big in Wildstorm, though. Did Midnighter complain much, or Apollo? I seem to remember them doing it sometime but it wasn't an overwhelming part of their characters. More about how it was done to them against their will and keeps getting them into trouble. In the bigger universes cybernetics make you not as human, and that's usually seen as a bad thing (they tend towards humancentrism).
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Nov 18, 2017 06:46
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Flytrap posted:Wow, between this and genocidal Flintstones they sure seem to be doing...something with those old cartoon properties. Flintstones covers a lot more than a single screen cap can convey.
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Nov 18, 2017 06:55
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I won't ever care about Cyborg in the comics until he's singing about burgers and has The Night Begins to Shine playing on a loop.
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Nov 18, 2017 07:00
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I like NTT Cyborg fine, but its strictly in that book as part of that ensemble, when the angst was a bit fresher. Some characters don't work long term outside of the original team they were created for.
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Nov 18, 2017 08:47
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I feel like one problem is that Cyborg is thematically tied to computers. And computer technology is still evolving very rapidly, and our cultural relationship to it is also evolving very rapidly. So it's hard to write a story that ties into that theme that won't rapidly become dated. But if you're writing Aquaman, for example, "the ocean" has held the same cultural meaning (secrets, danger, hidden depths) for millennia. And the writer who learned about ocean life in high school biology can still use that knowledge 30 years later to write about how sharks have electrical sensors or whatever. So the broader, more stable base of knowledge makes it easier to write a decent story. But that's something that Cyborg doesn't have. Also on the topic of Teen Titans Go, I think they had a pretty good take on the whole "Cyborg angsts about being human" storyline. He becomes human to experience the joy of hot tubs, but instead learns the tragedy of the hot tub being uncomfortably hot. There is also a song attached to this - maybe Cyborg's theme should be "singing" instead of "computers"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33I5zKr6HDw
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Nov 18, 2017 09:55
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nofather posted:He seems more like Yohn Kohl, the Kheran Spartan's mind was copied from. He was a sort of Indiana Jones/Doc Savage type adventurer and explorer, though it looks like in modern times he's more James Bondish. oh right. i assumed spartan had a more similar personality to yohn kohl - i never read the team 7 stuff. my bad. i really liked what joe casey did with hadrian, so i hope we get him.
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Nov 18, 2017 14:45
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Rhyno posted:Thank you for summing it up so well. Comic book Cyborg is boring and bland as all hell and always has been. He probably always will be. If DC had been smart they would have taken his TTG personality and reimagined him in the mainline comics. People have been saying that for years about Starfire, too. Part of the problem, I think, is that the characterization for all of them works when they're actually teenagers, but they've all been some vague twentysomething adult age for decades now and nobody cares about millennial angst.
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Nov 18, 2017 16:08
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Nuns with Guns posted:People have been saying that for years about Starfire, too. Part of the problem, I think, is that the characterization for all of them works when they're actually teenagers, but they've all been some vague twentysomething adult age for decades now and nobody cares about millennial angst. Long story short, except for Wally and Dick, the Titans kind of suck.
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Nov 18, 2017 16:24
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Rhyno posted:Long story short, except for Wally and Dick, the Titans kind of suck. Garth
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Nov 18, 2017 20:59
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Mr Hootington posted:Garth It's odd that you would agree with me so much that you had to single out the worst offender.
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Nov 18, 2017 21:01
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Beast Boy, Raven, and Starfire are great actually.
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Nov 18, 2017 21:03
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Nuns with Guns posted:People have been saying that for years about Starfire, too. Part of the problem, I think, is that the characterization for all of them works when they're actually teenagers, but they've all been some vague twentysomething adult age for decades now and nobody cares about millennial angst. I feel like there was a character that was relaunched as a platform for millennial angst and it failed, I forgot who, any ideas? It's not Batgirl of Burnside, atleast I'm pretty sure
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Nov 18, 2017 21:04
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Honestly, I think badly copying what was good about the old Teen Titans cartoon has only been for the worse for the characters.
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Nov 18, 2017 21:08
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Roth posted:Beast Boy, Raven, and Starfire are great actually. Okay, the later Titans are okayish but the founders are mostly bad. And I'm a big fan of Roy.
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Nov 18, 2017 21:09
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Rhyno posted:Okay, the later Titans are okayish but the founders are mostly bad. And I'm a big fan of Roy. Oh, I thought you meant NTT-era. Yeah, honestly, I like Teen Titans a lot but the sidekick characters are the least interesting part. It's part of why I don't care for Abnett's Titans. Speaking of which, I have no idea what the point of Omen is outside of being a really boring version of Raven with a cool costume.
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Nov 18, 2017 21:12
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Rhyno posted:Okay, the later Titans are okayish but the founders are mostly bad. And I'm a big fan of Roy. Gnark needs a post Rebirth reboot.
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Nov 18, 2017 21:21
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Skwirl posted:Gnark needs a post Rebirth reboot. He's been working with Herald in Titans.
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Nov 18, 2017 22:42
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nofather posted:He's been working with Herald in Titans. I was joking, I had to google the original Teen Titans when I found out most of the cartoon cast wasn't the original membership, and the cave Good on him for still being around
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Nov 18, 2017 22:45
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Gnark is Krang spelled backwards. It's also a cool name for an Alien snitch. As a pretty severe comics trivia nerd, that's the extent of my Gnarknowledge.
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Nov 18, 2017 22:50
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Oh man. DC is releasing Doomsday Clock #1 on the week of Alan Moore's birthday. That's beautiful.
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Nov 18, 2017 23:09
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Teenage Fansub posted:Oh man. DC is releasing Doomsday Clock #1 on the week of Alan Moore's birthday. Johns will never tire of trolling Moore.
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Nov 18, 2017 23:14
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Rhyno posted:Johns will never tire of trolling Moore. For a guy who's silver age boner for character versions is forever and ever, his penchant for 80's moody violent poo poo and mushing the two together is like some horrible sandwich.
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Nov 18, 2017 23:16
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Jiro posted:For a guy who's silver age boner for character versions is forever and ever, his penchant for 80's moody violent poo poo and mushing the two together is like some horrible sandwich. I bet none of these Watchmen bullshit would have happened if Moore hadn't talked poo poo about Johns a few years ago.
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Nov 18, 2017 23:19
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Jiro posted:For a guy who's silver age boner for character versions is forever and ever, his penchant for 80's moody violent poo poo and mushing the two together is like some horrible sandwich. Johns' violence is more 90's ripsplits to me.
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Nov 19, 2017 00:21
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Open Marriage Night posted:Johns' violence is more 90's ripsplits to me. I've heard he either plays too much Mortal Kombat or played too much Mortal Kombat when he was younger.
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Nov 19, 2017 01:16
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Rhyno posted:I bet none of these Watchmen bullshit would have happened if Moore hadn't talked poo poo about Johns a few years ago. I know none of this Watchmen bullshit would have happened if DC weren't lying cheating fucks.
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Nov 19, 2017 01:19
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TheHan posted:I guess I was a fool for thinking the Batman who Laughs was gonna be anything over than the ultimate edge lord blandfest. Right? What kept striking me as I read that origin story comic was just, "none of what the Joker is doing is funny, there's no gimmick or shtick here, he's just murdering people". And the same goes for the Batman Who Laughs - he just like, murders his family, makes Superman kill his own family and murders the rest of the Justice League. Where are the jokes? He might as well have been Batman crossed with Mr. Zsasz. I swear the vast majority of comics writers do not get the point of the Joker as a character.
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Nov 19, 2017 01:29
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