|
Guy Mann posted:I mostly just wanted an excuse to bring up Mario Ice Capades because Luigi crotch-gunning koopas and goombas into oblivion is the funniest drat thing. This is only loosely related, but why were ice shows such a big thing 20 years ago? Are they still? I don't hear about them as much, but then I don't watch a lot of live TV...
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 12:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 04:08 |
|
|
Beachcomber posted:This is only loosely related, but why were ice shows such a big thing 20 years ago? Are they still? I don't hear about them as much, but then I don't watch a lot of live TV... The "Ice Capades" was the driving force for skating shows. They were a huge company that had a huge cast of olympic stars and a disney contract (and flintstones and star wars and barbie and mario). But by the 80s they struggled to attract stars because they were basically a traveling circus that paid bad and made people do long crazy shows in huge costumes. Then disney pulled out and started their own ice shows. Then they sold their company to a televangelist and went out of business. They basically where the whole ice show industry and without them the whole concept withered away.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 13:29
|
|
|
Ccs posted:What? There's Dreamworks, Pixar, and Disney, and then there's Illumination. It's second-tier, not even close to bottom rung. And the french are pretty drat good at animation. Yeah, if nothing else Illumination makes insanely pretty movies. And honestly, I really liked Minions; I'm not overly familiar with the DM series outside of that movie, but that movie was cute as hell.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Ice Capades facts the other reason besides the bad pay and uncomfortable costumes is around that time, the professional skaters - especially the men thought the show is humiliating is and were trying to get people to take their sport more seriously instead of a vehicle for cute young girls to become darlings of the media.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDMWVZta3M
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 17:30
|
|
|
Beachcomber posted:This is only loosely related, but why were ice shows such a big thing 20 years ago? Are they still? I don't hear about them as much, but then I don't watch a lot of live TV...
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
Huh, surprised they aren't going for the "Picking back up with the characters X years later" plot that blockbusters are all about. Kinda refreshing actually. It's kinda becoming a cheap way to add emotional gravity to a story.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 22:04
|
|
|
SomeJazzyRat posted:Huh, surprised they aren't going for the "Picking back up with the characters X years later" plot that blockbusters are all about. Kinda refreshing actually. It's kinda becoming a cheap way to add emotional gravity to a story. Emotional gravity sounds like a rad X-Men power.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 22:08
|
|
|
SomeJazzyRat posted:Huh, surprised they aren't going for the "Picking back up with the characters X years later" plot that blockbusters are all about. Kinda refreshing actually. It's kinda becoming a cheap way to add emotional gravity to a story. That's the great thing about being animated, you don't have to worry about people getting physically older as time passes between films. Especially when you already have it in a retrofuturistic setting that is timeless and doesn't need to be updated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:That's the great thing about being animated, you don't have to worry about people getting physically older as time passes between films. Especially when you already have it in a retrofuturistic setting that is timeless and doesn't need to be updated. Unless you used child actors in the first movie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 22:28
|
|
|
SatansBestBuddy posted:Unless you used child actors in the first movie. Those are easily replaceable. Edit: voice actors that is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2017 22:36
|
|
|
Will this movie also have weird ayn rand themes like the first one?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
Ugh not that old poo poo again. Anyone who says Syndrome is being the socialistic and Bob's the Randian idea self-idealized figure is only paying attention to two lines, and ignoring the context that Syndrome is only saying his little "Everyone gets powers" scheme because he's rubbing it in Bob's face that he's some nobody fanboy that's not a big deal. Syndrome himself is obsessed with the idea of some people being innately more special, and he only planned on selling everyone powers once he's done and is bored of being the only superpowered person around.
Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Nov 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 05:52
|
|
|
Yeah, it's pretty weird to say a movie is objectivist when the villain is basically John Galt. Plus the movie's core message is about the importance of family and cooperation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 06:06
|
|
|
The whole plot is the government makeing him not be special and the punishment is to work at an insurance company, it’s not subtle
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 06:12
|
|
|
No, you're missing the forest for the trees. Bob's repeated selfish behaviors are punished (he's framed as a jerk for objecting to Dash's graduation - yes, the concept is silly, but he was very dismissive in a way that would've hurt Dash's feelings if he had overheard it), going out at night to play hero was shown as selfish glory-seeking, and the whole 'lying about my job because I'm too proud to admit I lost my real job' that just hurt Helen while he feeds his own ego. He really starts kicking rear end and taking names when he gets the wake up call that being the proud self-reliant hero is hurting himself and his family. What Byrd is trying to show (and is better presented in Tomorrowland) that being a selfish dick is really bad, but that people are happy when given a chance to put their talents to work - Bob isn't unhappy because he has to work with the 'lesser', he's unhappy because he's in a job that he can't really help anyone, and Randians aren't big on either altruism or charity. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Nov 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 06:42
|
|
|
Yeah, the few scenes we see of Bob in his insurance agent life, he does everything he possibly can to help the old woman trying to make a claim, and gets angry at his boss for mocking him for wishing he could help some guy he just saw getting mugged. That's... almost as polar opposite from an Objectivist as you can get.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 07:23
|
|
|
Also the villain is an arms-dealing capitalist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 07:51
|
|
|
I wouldn't go as far as call it Randian, but saying that the message of the Incredibles is something along the lines of "Some people are just better than others and they shouldn't be forced to stay at the same level of the unwashed masses" wouldn't be a stretch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
Incredibles and tomorrowland are so directly and blatantly ayn rand stuff that people decided the "I am very smart" analysis was to claim they aren't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
paradoxGentleman posted:I wouldn't go as far as call it Randian, but saying that the message of the Incredibles is something along the lines of "Some people are just better than others and they shouldn't be forced to stay at the same level of the unwashed masses" wouldn't be a stretch. Well, you could say that if you only watched the first half of the film. The final scene is the team happily posing as a 'normal' family and celebrating when Dash avoids excelling over his peers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Well, you could say that if you only watched the first half of the film. The final scene is the team happily posing as a 'normal' family and celebrating when Dash avoids excelling over his peers. avoids it to avoid punishment, not avoids it because he learned any sort of humility or that the people he competes with are actually equal to him or anything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 16:51
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:avoids it to avoid punishment, not avoids it because he learned any sort of humility or that the people he competes with are actually equal to him or anything. He avoids it because it makes his family happy. Edit: they realise by the end of the film that their powers are useful in specific situations but they don't have to show off in public to feel good about themselves because they have their family's love and respect. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Nov 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 16:55
|
|
|
And this my friends is an example of twisting the facts to fit a pet theory. A real Randian film would make Syndrome the hero, compare Syndrome and Bob Parr to John Galt in the actual Atlas Shrugged films - Syndrome maps to Galt far better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Incredibles and tomorrowland are so directly and blatantly ayn rand stuff that people decided the "I am very smart" analysis was to claim they aren't. When I think of Ayn Rand I think of stories about the importance of working together for the greater good and using your talents for more than your own gratification. Tomorrowland was literally about how Galt's Gulch was such a terrible idea that not only did it not work but it was actively destroying the world. It's a condemnation, not an endorsement. The conflict of The Incredibles takes place on a landmass called Nomanisan Island ffs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:When I think of Ayn Rand I think of stories about the importance of working together for the greater good and using your talents for more than your own gratification. Everyone who says it's Objectivist only pay attention to half of Syndrome's monologue, they're not even noticing the way he was sneering the entire time or the way he delivers the lines. He's not speaking as a moralist or a zealot, but as an bitter rear end in a top hat who is still mad about the time Bob kicked him out of his car as a kid. And note he has already killed possibly around a hundred capes, and explicitly stated he will be the only hero around once he's done, and then he'll sell his miracle heroism once he's bored. He's no socialist or altruist, he's a petty hyper-capitalist who knows how to massage his message so you don't pay attention to the moldering corpses that's falling out of his closet. If he truly wanted to make people special, he could've done it already, it's clear he's already ludicrously rich and his gadgets are already on a much higher tier than what we see elsewhere - didn't even have to drag Bob into it at all. But he did, because he still carries a decades long grudge. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Nov 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:10
|
|
|
The moral of The Incredibles is that some people are just better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:The moral of The Incredibles is that some people are just better. I don't think the basic concept of individuals having strengths and weaknesses is something most people would object to. Also people who criticize Incredibles and Tomorrowland as being randian never seem to mention Ratatouille, which is also a movie about talent and skill but has a hugely uplifting message about how it can come from anyone anywhere and how important it is to not let class or
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:25
|
|
|
Syndrome may have aged physically, but emotionally, he was always the kid who got not-so-gently let down by his hero. If anything, he regressed; most kids would’ve just decided “well, that sucked”, and moved on to something else in their lives, not devote the rest of their lives to spiting their former idol (and getting a lot of completely unrelated people killed).
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:27
|
|
|
LAIKA has an exhibit at the Portland Art Museum at the moment, definitely worth a looksee. The stuff from Kubo is most heavily featured, but there is stuff from every production. Weirdly, ParaNorman felt least-well represented, which made me sad since it's still my favorite of theirs. The centerpiece of the second room is the garden from Coraline, which is actually sorta lovely looking up close compared to the stuff from Kubo which is detailed to the last drop. And yet Coraline was a better movie!
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:29
|
|
|
A movie's themes are best shown through the following characters: the protagonist before he learns otherwise, the villain, and a whining little kid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:Syndrome may have aged physically, but emotionally, he was always the kid who got not-so-gently let down by his hero. If anything, he regressed; most kids would’ve just decided “well, that sucked”, and moved on to something else in their lives, not devote the rest of their lives to spiting their former idol (and getting a lot of completely unrelated people killed). Actually I would do exactly this and I admire Syndrome for sticking to his revenge  .
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:Syndrome may have aged physically, but emotionally, he was always the kid who got not-so-gently let down by his hero. If anything, he regressed; most kids would’ve just decided “well, that sucked”, and moved on to something else in their lives, not devote the rest of their lives to spiting their former idol (and getting a lot of completely unrelated people killed). And at the end when his great hero debut went completely pear-shaped, instead of either helping out and being a real hero, or just fleeing to a hideout and wait it out, he went out of his way to kidnap Jack Jack. There was no benefit for him to so this except as a giant gently caress you to the entire Parr family while they're busy cleaning up the mess he made. He's really a spiteful manchild with zero self-awareness, so anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. Honestly, it's kind of weird there's this implicit trust that the villains are always telling the truth.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:I don't think the basic concept of individuals having strengths and weaknesses is something most people would object to. Ratatouille is literally another "one guy is special but the government is stopping him" movie. It even has the "anyone can cook" theme subvert with "anyone CAN cook, but only few are true chefs"
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
And there's communists hiding in every bush, and all the nurses are boobytrapped. You have got to be trolling at this point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Ratatouille is literally another "one guy is special but the government is stopping him" movie. It even has the "anyone can cook" theme subvert with "anyone CAN cook, but only few are true chefs" I took it the other way around, that just because not everyone has it in them to be a master at something doesn't mean that they can't still learn and enjoy and contribute to it. The movie's climax and title come from the "peasant food" that ultimately wins over a jaded old man in a way that the fanciest of dishes failed to do, and at the end the literal garbage-eating rats from the beginning are all working in the kitchen and enjoying food themselves even though none of them have Remy's gifted interest in it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
People can be individualist or have an exceptional talent without being some kind of Randian ubermesch ffs. There's several different conflicts in Ratatouille, Corporatism vs Art, Individual Desire vs Expectation (which is not always a Randian conflict), etc. I dare these people read The Girl Who Owned A City, and go back and still call any of these three movies Randian. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
Lotta people upset at the idea of talent ITT. So I'm curious what Syndrome's heroic message was for the scene when he offers Mirage up on the chopping block. Bob can't bring himself to kill her, a regular human, and Syndrome tells Bob he can't take a life because he's weak. Almost like he, the villain, is saying the willingness to destroy others means you're strong. And the ensuing scene where Syndrome doesn't understand why Mirage is upset. She even has a line about "Next time you gamble, bet your own life." It really hits home for her that he has no real love for her, that all people are tools to him. Almost like he, the villain, is considered villainous for his admiration of power and destruction coupled with his disregard for human life, even his loved ones. But I'm sure those scenes have nothing to say other than, "Bitches always be crying!" 
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
Pick posted:Actually I would do exactly this and I admire Syndrome for sticking to his revenge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWRMSN1-fyk
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 04:08 |
|
|
Not interested in an Incredibles 2 unless we get them back in the booth to do audio commentary for an in universe cartoon with 1970s Super Friends style animation and production values. Honestly, just scrap the film and give me a season of that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2017 21:30
|
|
